#1390217 - 03/13/04 07:13 PM
Re: Relax .....
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**DONOTDELETE**
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Anonymous
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This is much better than getting a half baked game by the end of the month.
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#1390221 - 03/14/04 12:39 PM
Re: Relax .....
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FlyXwire
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Most likely Toadvine! It's a shame when cost considerations outweigh quality considerations! I see it everyday in my industry, to the point where essential equipment is not repaired or maintained, and to the detriment of quality manufacturing! The operating principle of the huge corporation I'm employed with is that you pinch the pennies, but ignore the larger more expensive issues (and the effects this approach has on efficiency, warranty cost, and morale)...........basically the powers that be "think" ass-backwards!!!
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#1390222 - 03/14/04 03:50 PM
Re: Relax .....
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PatWilson
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Originally posted by FlyXwire: Most likely Toadvine!
It's a shame when cost considerations outweigh quality considerations!
I see it everyday in my industry, to the point where essential equipment is not repaired or maintained, and to the detriment of quality manufacturing!
The operating principle of the huge corporation I'm employed with is that you pinch the pennies, but ignore the larger more expensive issues (and the effects this approach has on efficiency, warranty cost, and morale)...........basically the powers that be "think" ass-backwards!!! It's always a balancing act, espescially for small startups. You need to get something out there to generate revenue. It has to be good or people won't come back, but at the same time, there is often not time or resources to make it perfect. In KOE's case, this means probably fewer aircraft and a more limited campaign scope for the first time through. For instance, we might start things off with early 1917 and the Alb D.III, SPAD VII, andd Sopwith Pup. Late war scouts might be limited to the SPAD XIII, Camel, SE5a, and Fokker D.VII. Maybe a future add on will flesh things out earlier in the war, and another will do so for later in the war, much the same way that IL2 has done. IMHO the important thing for Aspect is to get the game features in place and produce a high quality product. If the initial offering is top notch, people will accept the limitations, especially if there is a promise of support. If the initial offering is not good then let's pray that it's user modifiable, because that's the only thing that saved RedBaron II.
The lucky man is the man who leaves as little to chance as possible.
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#1390223 - 03/14/04 04:10 PM
Re: Relax .....
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FlyXwire
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Geez Pat, this is what I've been arguing (along with a few others for months)!!! It's serves as the core rationale that a few of us here have maintained from the beginning, and has led to our disagreements with VH and to a lesser extent with Droops (the quality vs. quanity debate). Quality and Immersion have been my "buy lines" for months, and the concept of modular build as epitomized by IL-2 was expressed as a good "business plan" approach very early in our conversations here. Not to diminish the impact of your words or understanding, but it's about time!
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#1390224 - 03/14/04 05:00 PM
Re: Relax .....
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**DONOTDELETE**
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As long as they stick to their guns like a 'cornered rat' they will do just fine. Pun intended if you get it :p
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#1390225 - 03/14/04 08:51 PM
Re: Relax .....
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Toadvine
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Trying to incorporate the entire air war on the western front for the entire course of the war in one initial offering is not pratical IMO. I agree a better idea would be a series of installments that focus on certain areas or time frames. That way the quality of the game and the detail of the content would stand a far better chance of making the cut. If you were to try and do the whole WWI air war experience from 1914 to 1918 on one installment, quality and detail would have to suffer. There is just too much content that needs to be included. Look what Epic is doing with Unreal Tournament. They are making a career out of that one title! They are sticking with that one basic concept and improving and adding to it. It has become an on going project. Same idea with IL-2. they have a great foundation of the origional game to start with, then build on that with expansion packs and sequels. I think that would be a good way to approach KOE. Look at it as a long term project delivered in segments over time. In other words expansion packs and sequels. That would be fine with me. I enjoy buying new games! Otherwise how are we going to get all the detail and content we all anticipate on one game? RB3D did an admirable job of it, but look how much was really left out... It is too daunting of a task trying to do it all at once. Also, by receiving installments over time you get the benefit of the improved hardware like graphics cards and faster CPUs. So in theory the latter installments could be better than the ones before. The devs have a steady job and everyone is happy!
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#1390226 - 03/15/04 03:14 AM
Re: Relax .....
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**DONOTDELETE**
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Anonymous
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If you ask for a lump of coal instead of candy at Halloween, don't be surprized if a lump of coal is all you get.
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#1390229 - 03/15/04 02:18 PM
Re: Relax .....
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Originally posted by Toadvine: What is wrong with sequels for including added aircraft, front locations, troop movements, campaigns, etc.? Because games have progressed quite a bit since RB Original. You can add all the planes you want, but if the game engine doesn't recognize them, they sit on the ground like a fancy paperweight. It took quite a bit of fancy footwork with the data files to get the Zeppelin slot working in RB, and you don't want to know how many failures I had before it finally started working! Adding extra working slots to a computer game isn't easy. I know.......I did it in RB3D. Typically, once a game is released, that crew moves on to other work, which means anything added later will be done by a crew that's just as clueless as you & me. Granted, they got the proper tools, but if you don't know where the other guys left off, it's just as bad. Further, newer games have the pieces linked together. Change one aspect (no pun intended), and you will invaribly change something else, elsewhere in the game.
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#1390230 - 03/15/04 02:24 PM
Re: Relax .....
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**DONOTDELETE**
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If my Jasta is supposed to be flying Roland D2's, and we're stuck flying E3's, is that quality? Is that immersion? If I'm a Bavarian pilot, yet I don't have any Bavarian medals to pin on my chest, is that quality? Is that immersion? If my Jasta gets decimated in campaign because we lack the proper aircraft, is that quality? Is that immersion? ........Not from where I sit, bub.
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#1390231 - 03/15/04 07:06 PM
Re: Relax .....
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I think this all points to it being more economically sound to NOT let user mods into the game. Better to keep a tight reign on things so as to be able to sell addons later.
Better for the company, better for the players, who don't get subjected to rampant cheating.
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#1390232 - 03/15/04 07:32 PM
Re: Relax .....
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PatWilson
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Originally posted by VonHelton: If my Jasta is supposed to be flying Roland D2's, and we're stuck flying E3's, is that quality? Is that immersion?
If I'm a Bavarian pilot, yet I don't have any Bavarian medals to pin on my chest, is that quality? Is that immersion?
If my Jasta gets decimated in campaign because we lack the proper aircraft, is that quality? Is that immersion?
........Not from where I sit, bub.
As long as there is a Bavarian add on pack coming .. (I like to fly Bavarian too ) Seriously, resources are limited, time is limited, and there is a limit as to what you will get for $50. If you think that you are going to get everything that was there in WWI then you will be disappointed. Something has to be cut. If you accept that then the only question becomes "what?". For example, excluding the Bavarians is perfectly acceptable if you don't claim to support Bavarian careers. You might not like it but most people wouldn't really care. Okay, now you say the game is fatally flawed. Is it fatally flawed if the Italians and Austrians aren't in there? What about the Russians? Palestine? English channel front? At what point does it become acceptable? You're not going to get the 300 odd types that flew combat in WWI. Ain't gonna happen. So what gets cut? In the end the game has to provide a plausable experience for some segment of the war. IMHO there is nothing wrong, for insstance, with limiting the sim to British and Germans in Flanders of 1918 (sort of what Flying Corp did). As long as that's what the box says then that's fine. If it sells then more will come.
The lucky man is the man who leaves as little to chance as possible.
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#1390233 - 03/15/04 10:34 PM
Re: Relax .....
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**DONOTDELETE**
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Anonymous
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I totally reject that premise........
What you are creating with that is a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Gaming companies need to hear that we want more. We have the technology now to create a WW1 sim the way it should be, but idiots getting on these boards & asking for 4 planes & a patch of grass isn't helping!!
Yea, it'll take longer to get what we want.......BIG DEAL.
....We're already waiting anyway!
As far as I'm aware, Aspect is freelance.......They aren't under the boot of someone like Sierra or Vivendi.
If I had to wait 6 more months to get the german aircraft that need to be in the game, so be it.
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CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
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