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#1390129 - 04/01/04 11:19 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Eddie_W:
How come the engine that was recovered from MvR's forced landing was... a 110 Oberursel, as seen by the hundreds of thousands (millions, probably!) who've been through the Imperial War Museum in London.

Are you going to call THAT Allied propaganda?
From what I've been able to determine, the 145 Oberursel & 100 Oberursel are nearly (if not exactly) identical.

Idflieg promised MvR some 145 Oberursels. I have no reason to doubt he got them.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#1390130 - 04/01/04 11:22 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Hmmmm..."what do you make of this, Watson?"

#1390131 - 04/01/04 11:54 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Funny but I seem to remember that Manfred maneuvered to hit a target and Boelcke dodged. Manfred did blame himself for Boelckes' death. Or was that Immelmann? Crap, I forget! Thought it was MvR.

I said he was a great leader and a great tactician. You do sit above a bit and direct. He was also known to pick off damaged planes exiting combat after he was in that job for a while. It's not like he used his men for hounds after boar though. They got kills enough.

Not everyone was so enamored of him either. Consider what LvR had to say, and he was also raised the same.

The rigors of war and especially command can get to anyone over time.

And that still doesn't change how Mays slowed himself down by wild jinking. Had he just dove in a smoother weave, he would have outdistanced MvR quickly enough.

As good an account, actually better than any I've seen to date is a Nova transcript investigating who kiled MvR and includes testimonies of the sons of some of the men involved including Denny May recounting what his father had told him. Surprise to me was that MvR survived the crash landing and spoke to the man sent to capture him a few seconds before dying. MvR landed the DrI nearly intact, pancaked it in.

Anyhow it's as good a read as any.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3011_redbaron.html


Neal

#1390132 - 04/02/04 12:20 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by kail:

Boelcke's collison was caused by MvR's target plane not by MvR himself. [/QB]
His plane was struck by another Albatros piloted by Lt Erwin Bohme.

'They Fought for the Sky' Quentin Reynolds 1957.


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1390133 - 04/02/04 12:32 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bobby:
\:\( WtF happened to my thread ! :p \:D
When is KOE due out?

#1390134 - 04/02/04 02:13 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Uther:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bobby:
\:\( WtF happened to my thread ! :p \:D
When is KOE due out?
Uther, its due out Q4 of this year. They originally were shooting for Q2, but when they got a publisher its my understanding that they were told to shoot for Q4. Thus, while the basic game design is probably locked in, there's time for some extras to be put in.

Much of the arguing that you've seen here originally came from discussions about how much the sim should include in its initial release. Given the extra time, people (rightfully I think) are expecting more stuff and in a bug-free (as much as possible) release. Screenshots are showing some interesting stuff, so we shall see.

Droops

#1390135 - 04/02/04 03:00 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Neal

Boelcke led 5 others in stormy weather(MvR's autobio) and attacked 2 Britishers. It states he noticed an unusal movement between Boelcke & Bohme. Bohme tried to shoot himself but was stopped.

Its been stated by Boelcke might have surived if he had worn a helmet.

#1390136 - 04/02/04 03:27 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Droops:
Much of the arguing that you've seen here originally came from discussions about how much the sim should include in its initial release. Given the extra time, people (rightfully I think) are expecting more stuff and in a bug-free (as much as possible) release. Screenshots are showing some interesting stuff, so we shall see.

Droops
Yes & no.......

I don't think the date can be changed, I think it was hard-coded.

What this means, is that to fly from July 1915 to mid 1916 is Disk 1.

Then I gotta insert Disk 2 to fly from mid 1916 to mid 1917.

Then I gotta insert Disk 3 to fly from mid 1917 to the end of the war.

That's not what I wanted, but it looks like that's what we got, and that's why I'm so mad I could scream!!!



......And it certainly wasn't me that pushed that idea, now was it? Who was it that pushed the idea of a snapshot in time, Droops?




#1390137 - 04/02/04 04:15 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Why on earth would the Aspect Sims programmers do that to limit the future potential for development? To annoy VonHelton?

This is 2004! Very few things are hard-coded in sims these days, most CERTAINLY not the scope of the campaign, as that means the engine is junk for any future sim that should be developed.

#1390138 - 04/02/04 05:17 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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"That chase proved to be MvR's undoing anyway. the man was a great shot, a great leader and a great tactician. He was also a glory hungry vulture who preyed on enemies damaged by his own wing or just the ones who were inept or helpless, at least once he got in charge of the circus. Note how it was that Boelcke died."

Neal, that doesn't sound right. MvR had nothing to do with Boelcke's death, and it sounds as if you are describing Hermann Goehring once he became CO of JG1. Think you might be mixing your pilots up.
MvR was venerated by his men, and was known for his manner of encouraging newer pilots. "Glory hungry vulture," is a bit much. He was a typical a-type personality (most fighter pilots are) and a result driven leader, but I have never read anywhere that he took kills away from wingies, in fact I've read the opposite.

Hautz

#1390139 - 04/02/04 06:06 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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"...they (his men) said that whenever Richthofen and another pilot fired on the same plane that crashed, Richthofen stepped back in favor of the other claimant..." Dr Max Osborn, April 24, 1918

The day the Red Baron died by Dale Titler, 1970.

Take it for what it is worth.


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1390140 - 04/02/04 07:08 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Ironhand:
"...they (his men) said that whenever Richthofen and another pilot fired on the same plane that crashed, Richthofen stepped back in favor of the other claimant..." Dr Max Osborn, April 24, 1918

The day the Red Baron died by Dale Titler, 1970.

Take it for what it is worth.
Smart thinking on MvR's part. Avoid getting shot down by a friendly that way.

#1390141 - 04/02/04 09:14 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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True, but I think he meant when it came time to file the claim \:\)

As Gerd Barkhorn would say some 20 odd years later, "Give them to the poor people."


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1390142 - 04/02/04 02:06 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Eddie_W:
Why on earth would the Aspect Sims programmers do that to limit the future potential for development?
To get it out the door by Christmas?

To move on to other games they might deem more important?

Because we're a niche market?

....There's lots of reasons why, and don't tell me it isn't done, because I just got done playing a game that does.

"Please Insert Disk 2"

#1390143 - 04/02/04 02:53 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Don't you mean "Install disk 2"?

If it's a matter of needing the CD to play then that's the legitimate use of CD cracks. I won't be supporting a sim that I actually HAVE to use an uncopyable CD to play, it limits the hell out of the lifespan and I certainly Aspect can appreciate that!


Neal

Sorry about the MvR-Gloryguy thing guys, it was a solid impression I had from back in 1998. I was mistaken.

#1390144 - 04/02/04 03:08 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Neal:
Don't you mean "Install disk 2"?

If it's a matter of needing the CD to play then that's the legitimate use of CD cracks.

Neal
No, I mean INSERT DISK 2!

Example: Lucas Arts "Outlaws"

Halfway through the campaign, you MUST insert CD 2.

......If you still don't get it, I can't help you.

Quote:
I won't be supporting a sim that I actually HAVE to use an uncopyable CD to play, it limits the hell out of the lifespan and I certainly Aspect can appreciate that!

Neal
Macrovision is inescapeable. Philips was going to fight it, but I guess gave up.

\:\(


#1390145 - 04/02/04 03:15 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neal:

Sorry about the MvR-Gloryguy thing guys, it was a solid impression I had from back in 1998. I was mistaken.
Dont worry about it. I once read a book where the author stated MvR shot guys in parachutes, now since only the German were issued chutes(late) and MvR never attacked any balloons...well :rolleyes:

From what I've read, and I dont know much about a few of these guys. I have a favorable immpression of

McCudden - read his book
Collishaw - havent read much, at least anything bad
Guynemer - true knight of the skies
Nungesser - \:D
Udet - a flyer

hmmm. maybe I should start a new thread instead of hijaaking this one ;\)

#1390146 - 04/02/04 03:44 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by kail:
Dont worry about it. I once read a book where the author stated MvR shot guys in parachutes, now since only the German were issued chutes(late) and MvR never attacked any balloons...well :rolleyes:
This is an excellent example of the sheer crap you have to wade through to get to the truth. Many people are of the mind that if it came from a book, it must be the truth.

The problem with that is that the Allied Propaganda Machine was well under way both during & after the war, and historians are going largely by that info. A book written by German authors is no less succeptable to the propaganda that's out there than the Americans or Brits.

I would say that even the germans themselves would hide their true numbers, in an effort to lull the allies into a false sense of security.

...I know I would!

"We only got 10 Pfalz Dr1's!!"

.....And when the Allies fly over, they meet 1,000 Pfalz Dr1's instead, and get wiped out.

\:D

#1390147 - 04/02/04 04:42 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Thanks for the heads up. This looks like it could be a winner.

#1390148 - 04/02/04 05:06 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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usually centered in somebody e...
Quote:
Originally posted by kail:
Quote:
Originally posted by Neal:

Sorry about the MvR-Gloryguy thing guys, it was a solid impression I had from back in 1998. I was mistaken.
Dont worry about it. I once read a book where the author stated MvR shot guys in parachutes, now since only the German were issued chutes(late) and MvR never attacked any balloons...well :rolleyes:

From what I've read, and I dont know much about a few of these guys. I have a favorable immpression of

McCudden - read his book
Collishaw - havent read much, at least anything bad
Guynemer - true knight of the skies
Nungesser - \:D
Udet - a flyer

hmmm. maybe I should start a new thread instead of hijaaking this one ;\)
IMHO the truth generally gets more complex the more you look into it. I have heard both Collishaw and Bishop labeled as "self promoters". Maybe they were, however, they were also very effective combat pilots and Collishaw was certainly a popular and effective squadron leader. Mannock is often labeled as a ruthless killer, but there can be no doubt that he was a superb squadron leader who went to great lengths to care for his men. If I were a British pilot Mannock and McCudden would be my top choices for commanding officer. Udet was apparently a pretty nice guy as well as a good pilot, but to all appearances he was not an inspiring leader. When it comes right down to it, Fonck seems to be the only pilot that I can think of that seems to generate near universal loathing as a personality, and even there I am sure that somebody had something nice to say about him (he must have patted a kitty, or puppy, or small child at least once in his life \:\) ).


The lucky man is the man who leaves as little to chance as possible.
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