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#1390089 - 03/31/04 01:52 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Jamm0r Offline
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Argon, if you truely think that the developers give a damn about what you, Von Helton, and FlyXwire think, especially after the oh so eloquent debates the three of you have been involved in on this and Frugal's forum, then you're just beyond naive. Why don't you just give it a rest, please.

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#1390090 - 03/31/04 01:55 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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#1390091 - 03/31/04 01:56 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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We did, and had very good discussions here for three days running!

And then IT came back!!!

Hello, do you get it???

#1390092 - 03/31/04 03:24 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Will KOE be better than the modded RB3D?

As far as gameplay,I dunno. Red Baron 3D has a deep and long campaign that KOE will do well to match. But, in the interviews I have read, Aspect has implied that they understand that RB3D is the standard to beat and that they have no intention of shipping a disappointing sim.

Technically, I think KOE will be better than the RB3D mods. I expect the game will be far more stable. Frame rates should be way better. I have a fairly decent system and those mod frame rates can dip way down into the low 20s and high teens when the action heats up. I am sure KOE will do better than that.

I agree with Pat when he says the skins on the KOE planes need to be improved. They are detailed alright but lack an organic aesthetic appeal. I guess it is something that is in the eye of the modeler. He might think they look great. It is really a subjective point of view I suppose.

The terrain and view distance in KOE looks a lot better than the RB3D mods to me. I haven't seen many screens from ground level that show how many trees will be drawn, or what they will look like, or what the structures will look like, or the towns and areodomes. How will KOE render the structures when they are shot up or bombed? The way they burn in RB3D is pretty cool! How will planes be rendered when they crash? Will they collapse into a tangled heap? Explode in a fireball?

I haven't seen any screens of KOE with cumulus clouds to fly around or through. Haven't seen any rain or thunder. Things like that would be nice touches.

Graphically the mods, especially Kess's work, look awful nice.I guess KOE could look better, but it won't be an easy task!

Overall I don't know enough about KOE to have an opinion about it being better than Red Baron 3D or not. I think it is very possible, if not outright then in some areas.

#1390093 - 03/31/04 03:45 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamm0r:
Argon, if you truely think that the developers give a damn about what you, Von Helton, and FlyXwire think, especially after the oh so eloquent debates the three of you have been involved in on this and Frugal's forum, then you're just beyond naive. Why don't you just give it a rest, please.
Where did I ever state that the KOE developers listen to me about game developement? (Please, do quote any of my posts in context that state as such) I think you need to re-read the posts here man to get the whole story. It's obvious that you do not know what you are talking about in this regard sir. :rolleyes: I haven't been in any debates at the Frugals World forums either. \:\)

Quote:
Originally posted by Jagdpanzer: So why the need to take your little piss fest onto other boards? Do yourself a favor Argon, turn your damn computer off sometimes and go for a frigging walk! There's a real world outside...
Hey Jagdpanzer, where'd you come from!? I think you also need to re-read the posts here mate. I'm in the search for any truthfulness coming from VonHelton. Thus far, he has been unable to produce any! I am not the instigator here, VonHelton is with his BS posts! :rolleyes: I've been e-mailing the MODs for a few days now trying to get a response, thus far no one has e-mailed me back. Thus I have resorted in being just as annoying as VonHelton, only to prove to him how stupid he sounds. \:D Even on this post if you will actually READ it VonHelton started the flame fest with his BS assumptions and insults.


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#1390094 - 03/31/04 04:02 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Trajan Offline
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The only problem with it is that you and vh may get a timeout. It has been done to him and Fly

The best way, IMHO, is to just do what we have been doing. Throw verifiable facts into it.

You, me, Fly, Droops and Sunscream have been doing that. At the very least, I have been learning more than my limited sources allow.

And I have been getting a nice list of books to buy when funds permit \:D

And JP, Argon gets called a coward because he asks vh to provide some proof. What kind of crap is that?


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1390095 - 03/31/04 04:26 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Trajan Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jamm0r:
Argon, if you truely think that the developers give a damn about what you, Von Helton, and FlyXwire think, especially after the oh so eloquent debates the three of you have been involved in on this and Frugal's forum, then you're just beyond naive. Why don't you just give it a rest, please.
VH is claiming that if the game is not what he, VH, wants it to be, it is our fault.

Now explain to me how we can be blamed for something that is still under developement.

Only one person is claiming that we have anything to do with whatever Aspect does with their design.

And since whatever he says is to be taken as solid, unimpeachable fact....


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1390096 - 03/31/04 05:38 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Dantes Offline
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Hmnnn...

After intensely studying the stills available at KOE, I have been able to surmise that it will indeed be better than RB.

I can usually tell how a final sim will turn out by looking at beta (even alpha) stills. I now know the FM will be better than X-Plane, the graphics will be better than Forgotten Battles and the campaign will be better than Red Baron.

It's a gift and a curse knowing the outcome of a sim before it is released. I usually don't say anything because it makes people sad when they find out all that anticipation was for mucky sims.

This time though, I'm happy to report to everyone that there is no reason to panic. I've worked years on this ability to decipher how a sim will end up from stills and I'd thought this one time I would share some of my amazing 6th-sim-sense with those less fortunate.

Does that answer the questions? ;\)

S!

#1390097 - 03/31/04 06:01 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Jamm0r Offline
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Argon, to be quite frank, I don't care who started what, or who gets to end it. Nor do I care who's right or wrong. Nor, may I add, am I open to argumentation. You don't have to prove anything to me -- the proof is already in the pudding so to speak. Every other post in here is a collection of childish insults -- this forum has become a pre-school pissing contest, and I don't think it'll stop until the mods stamp their authority around here, which has been sorely lacking. But by all means, don't let me stop you -- I won't be coming back any time soon. I'll try not to break the door down on my way out.

#1390098 - 03/31/04 06:33 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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That's ok... like VonHelton, you fail to backup your statements about me with any fact... You said I thought the developers listen to me and if so I am naive. After kindly asking you to provide any such quotes from me, you fail to after realizing I have made no such statement and quickly head out. This is of course my opinion, concluded by the recent past events that just transpired here. I only wish VonHelton can do the same! \:\(


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FS-WWI Plane Pack Site

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#1390099 - 03/31/04 06:45 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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boy! If only we had the Ignore feature like in Hyperlobby, it would be much easier to skim through all these threads.

#1390100 - 03/31/04 10:08 AM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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kail Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pen:
boy! If only we had the Ignore feature like in Hyperlobby, it would be much easier to skim through all these threads.
there's an ignore feature but it doesnt seem to work. \:\(

I'd like to see one thread go without this crap. At least 4 others have asked for it to stop but those involved just dont get it.

Back on topic. KOE will have to address gameplay & immersion. There are times in RB3D that I still see things new or cool in someway. I would hope KOE can bring more a feeling of being involved in the war.

1. We like toys, if it saw combat, I would like to shoot it down Make KOE flexible to accept additional a/c

2. ground targets. what can a say I miss the little green men. besides, the late air war had a lot of ground attacks. troops, horse, trucks & towed guns.

3. terrain. actual landmarks, verdun, rivers, roads where they are supposed to be. I'd like to look over my wing and recognize a town or hill instead of another random tile.

4. FM, there's a built-in variable here because there is so much conflicting data. If "I" :p :p :p were making the sim. I'd have each pilot assigned a mechanic. Each mechanic would have different expertise affecting speed, reliability, gun jams, etc. Your plane would perform better or worst. no two planes the same

imagine the fallout \:D

~
kail

#1390101 - 03/31/04 12:13 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Neal Offline
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I see about 3 little baaaaad boys if I understand someone correctly! But I don't know the whole story so please tell me if any of the following is true:

* Aspect came on and offered to model the whole airwar with 100+ planes, full ground, campaign, etc, etc, etc.

* That was their stated possible goal and they had the resources to pull it off.

* Then just 3 members of the forum said "No, make it extremely limited to just 1917 on and make sure there can't be any way for a full range of addons."

* And Aspect said "Well gee, if that's all anybody wants we'll just have to cut the program short."

Am I getting warm?


Neal

#1390102 - 03/31/04 03:05 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Neal:
I see about 3 little baaaaad boys if I understand someone correctly! But I don't know the whole story so please tell me if any of the following is true:

* Aspect came on and offered to model the whole airwar with 100+ planes, full ground, campaign, etc, etc, etc.

* That was their stated possible goal and they had the resources to pull it off.

* Then just 3 members of the forum said "No, make it extremely limited to just 1917 on and make sure there can't be any way for a full range of addons."

* And Aspect said "Well gee, if that's all anybody wants we'll just have to cut the program short."

Am I getting warm?


Neal
Sounds about right to me!!

Grrrrrrrr.......


#1390103 - 03/31/04 03:29 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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[troll deleted]


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
#1390104 - 03/31/04 03:33 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Neal:
I see about 3 little baaaaad boys if I understand someone correctly! But I don't know the whole story so please tell me if any of the following is true:

* Aspect came on and offered to model the whole airwar with 100+ planes, full ground, campaign, etc, etc, etc.

* That was their stated possible goal and they had the resources to pull it off.

* Then just 3 members of the forum said "No, make it extremely limited to just 1917 on and make sure there can't be any way for a full range of addons."

* And Aspect said "Well gee, if that's all anybody wants we'll just have to cut the program short."

Am I getting warm?


Neal
No Neal, that's not right. A couple of months ago vH and I came on and made a plea for more aircraft in a sim than RB has. I posted about my 17 Hours experience, that we had drawn up a list of 100 aircraft for the Western front, that you could model hundreds if you did the entire war, and that the period of the war that I thought best to model was July 1915 to the end. vH also wanted lots of planes, but kept claiming that the Germans would get screwed if they didn't get a bunch of rotary-engine aircraft in as well.

Discussion was lively. And while I don't agree with some of the positions of others here, we finally did get a post from Aspect that they would not be releasing with 100 planes, but it would be a bunch. Futhermore, the indication is that the game will be expandable in some way. With the promise the game having the capability to have more aircraft, I was mollified.

vH, however, continues to rant about German rotaries. Various people here, including me, have posted about some of the mentioned planes and shown that they did not get used in large numbers on the front and, as such, probably don't deserve to be included in a first release of the sim. I do agree that most of these planes should be added later, but don't think that they should be in the first release.

This has set off the regular rants, accusations, foaming at the mouth, etc. *shrug*

Droops

#1390105 - 03/31/04 03:56 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Droops:
This has set off the regular rants, accusations, foaming at the mouth, etc. *shrug*

Droops
Not exactly........

My "rant" has been, and continues to be, whether we want a "snapshot in time" like other games do, or whether we want the bulk of the war, like what RB gave us.

....I lost.

#1390106 - 03/31/04 03:58 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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#1390107 - 03/31/04 04:28 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Neal:
Am I getting warm?

Neal
Yes, you are........

Quote:
Originally posted by LORD BYRON:
FxW,

Oh yeah, another thing .... agree one hundred percent that I would rather have a fewer number well done aircraft as opposed to 50 poorly rendered ones. I wouldn't even object to the sim being modularized - say, one module covering late 1916 up to late 1917 and a second module covering through to the war's end.

And I'd like to see the different engine and performance configurations present for Camels, F2B's, D.VII's, SE5's, etc. What added immersion! It would be easily possible if a reasonably accurate physics based FM engine can be coded.


LB
HEY! That guy looks familiar!


Quote:
Originally posted by VonHelton:
Quote:
Originally posted by FlyXwire:
Let's see, No.56 Squadron R.F.C. reports to the Western Front in April 1917 with S.E.5s, and soldiers on for the rest of the war flying S.E.5a scouts.

Now someone decides to design an in-depth simulation around the experiences of this one squadron, with the greatest attention given to detail and historical accuracy............and this will NOT be a simulation???

WHY NOT!!!
......Because the Bargain Bin in the stores are full of such games, would be my first clue.

;\) :p

4 planes & a 3 metre patch of grass already exist, and they're not selling.

"Variety is the Spice of Life" is the old saying.




"Specialty Games" like what you describe have no lasting power.

We have the opportunity to get back the stuff in the first Red Baron, Knights of the Sky, etc:

Moving trains & other ground activity, a map that includes London, Paris & Berlin, and a wider variety of aircraft, aces, medals & squadrons.


#1390108 - 03/31/04 04:41 PM Re: Will KOE be superior to RB3D+mods ?  
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Trajan Offline
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Knights only allowed you to fly an Allied plane in a generic cockpit in a campaign.


"We have come to bring you Liberty and Equality, but don't lose your head about it. The first one of you moves without my permission will be shot." Marshal of the Empire Francois Lefebyre
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