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#1389858 - 12/31/03 05:29 PM A request about multiple seat aircraft  


I read the recent interview and it sounds good insofar as it goes. Of course we on the outside have no idea what's happening with all of the details but we'll find out when its released.

As enthusiasts we put out wish lists and ideas, and hope that they're read. I know that some ideas and wishes are pie in the sky, but some are good and, hopefully, we as users sometimes have a perspective or idea that the development team might not have considered. Hopefully these perspectives are useful.

As I've stated before, I'm hoping that there will be the ability in this sim to add aircraft. Whether its done by the users or by the company is not as important to me as the idea of being able to add more planes. What I wanted to address in this post are some considerations about the types of planes that might be in this sim.

Most of the aircraft that flew in WWI had room for one or two people. The majority of the one-seaters were scouts, while the majority of the two-seaters were either reconnaissance or bombing aircraft. For the two-seaters, most had the pilot in front and the gunner/observer behind.

However, not all of the planes fit into this pattern neatly. For example, Sopwith Strutters were the reverse of the norm. The one-seat aircraft were the bombers, and the two-seat aircraft were the 'fighters' as it were. The Martinsyde G100 and G102 aircraft were one-seaters which were used primarily for bombing as well.

Some other interesting aircraft come from the German side. The early AEG G-types were multiple seat aircraft whose initial mission was as escort. Also, the German R planes had up to 12 people on-board. A pilot and co-pilot, multiple gunners, a navigator, and men in charge of caring for the engines. On the French side, you had the Caudron R-11 for example, that had a three-man crew. In addition to the pilot, you had front and rear gunners. Various seaplanes on all sides also had multiple crew members.

I don't expect the Martinsyde, AEG, German R-types, or the Caudron R-11 to be in the initial release of KOE. These are specialized planes which, while somewhat common, aren't as common as a BE2, LVG, or Nieuport 17 (as examples). However, if the sim can be expanded then these planes should eventually make it into the mix as they were important.

Which leads me (finally) to my request. Your recent interview indicated that players will be able to switch back and forth between flying a plane and manning a gun in a two-seater. I assume that an AI entity will fill the slot that the player isn't otherwise filling. This is great insofar as it goes, but I have two requests.

1). Please allow more than one player on an aircraft at a time. I would like to be able to pilot an aircraft while having a real person, not an AI, doing the work in the second (or more) seat. This is particularly important for the MP world. Obviously in the SP world this isn't applicable.

2). When designing the game, make sure that you allow for a player to switch to more than two positions. While I don't think that its necessary for a player to be an engine mechanic on a German R-plane, the player should be able to switch between a pilot and gunner/bomber position anywhere on an aircraft. Thus if an aircraft has one pilot and three gunners, for example, the player should be able to switch to any of these positions as necessary and as desired.

This flexibility should be allowed in the game so that as new and more exotic aircraft are introduced into the game, players aren't limited to just two positions in the aircraft.

BTW, if you allow for, say, five positions to be filled by real people in a single aircraft such as a German R-plane, you can begin to see the need for as many player positions as possible in an MMP environment. I would urge you not to limit on-line play to just 32 players total, but try as hard as possible to allow for as many 'slots' as possible.

Thanks everyone.


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#1389859 - 12/31/03 06:34 PM Re: A request about multiple seat aircraft  



While we cant divulge specific information in these areas just yet, let me say, Were listening.

#1389860 - 12/31/03 07:33 PM Re: A request about multiple seat aircraft  


Oh I'm not upset if you don't divulge information to me. I'm just happy to be heard and will be happier if any of the musings are helpful.



#1389861 - 01/06/04 12:15 PM Re: A request about multiple seat aircraft  


Speaking of exotic aircraft, I've recently got my hands on good, clear pictures that show the SSW "R-Type" bomber being built.

.......3 or 4 at a time!

Unfortunately, most of the documentation available only talks about the prototype, but there is some that makes clear it saw combat as a bomber, and the aircraft served from 1915 up to the end of the war.

Combat versions had a belly gunner that laid on his stomach in the bottom of the plane. Combined with the gunner in the roof of the cockpit, it had an excellent defensive arrangement.

There is no documentation to suggest that any were shot down, nor is there any way to know how many were built or where in Europe they served.


(Some claim only 7 were built, but my photographs suggest this hypothesis is wrong, unless they mean 7 R1's, 7 R2's, etc.)

#1389862 - 01/08/04 01:19 AM Re: A request about multiple seat aircraft  



Not all gunner positions need be modded. Over the FB, there is much trouble modding ALL the flight crew positions, which grow to large numbers in WW2 bombers, and Oleg seems to demand them ALL be modded, and if this is not done then nobody can sim these aircraft, ever. I would say upper rear gunner and/or nose gunner are the only non~pilot positions needing modding.

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