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#1389095 - 08/22/03 01:40 PM Will KOE be Another RBII??  
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Barkhorn1x Offline
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Most would say - yea I really hope so, and it should be since it is being developed by some of the same guys who developed RBII. Me, Im not so sure. Heres why;
* RBII - when it was released was - a mess!!! Anyone remember? How about this link to bring it all back; http://www.intelligamer.com/sims/rb2/rb2.asp
The last paragraph says it all;
How Sierra could have released Red Baron II in the condition they did is a mystery. Perhaps the cynics are right and some companies really will do anything to ship product before the Christmas buying season. Although Sierra is now promising patches to fix the worst of the bugs and later to support 3D accelerators, I can't but recommend that you wait a good long time for the dust to settle. Otherwise you are going to regret that you spent your hard earned $60. In the mean time, download the original Red Baron for free from the Sierra web site, you'll have more fun with that, even if it is in stunning 16 color graphics.

* Sure Sierra did support the product post release - but this was after howls of complaints from the simming community. And, really, they only fixed the glaring stuff (added 3D support, added views, supported MMP) and left the less obvious or more involved stuff for the community to handle (poor terrain, poor FMs, poor DMs, poor a/c models, etc., etc., etc.).

* The RBII modding community made RBII the classic that it is today - and w/ the release of the Western Front Patch, then the Hells Angels patch and now FCJ there is still a lot of life left in this old gal.

* Was SWWISA or Kess ever approached for their input/opinions - NO!! Why the hell not is what I want to know? These guys are uber talented and have done things - w/o the source code mind you - that no one would have thought possible.

* What do we really know about KOE at this point? Pretty a/c models, interesting DM graphics and so-so terrain - thats it!!!

* But these are the RBII guys!, I hear you say. Yea, Tucker Hatlfield was an RBII guy too and went on to produce those 2 very fine products, CFS2 and CFS3 for M$. :rolleyes:

Dont get me wrong - I would KILL for an up to date WWI flight sim w/ the attention to detail of an IL-2FB and a dynamic campaign w/ all that RBII chrome. I just want to caution all of you that it is way too early to start popping champagne corks over KOE.

Regards,
Barkhorn.


"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion."--- William Ralph Inge

"The ORIGINAL Barkhorn"
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#1389096 - 08/22/03 05:01 PM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  
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John Reynolds Offline
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I can't disagree with much of what you wrote, but bear in mind that Aspect Sim. doesn't have a publisher yet for KOE so we can only hope that when they do cut a deal they retain 'release' rights for their game.


Space for rent.
#1389097 - 08/22/03 11:16 PM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  
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Alain-James Offline
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No need to pop-up Champagne, but no need either to shot down it in flames - Im sure the KOE guys must find your kind words quite encouraging :roll:

I think nobody can be brave enough now to say KOE is the complete follow up of RB2 with only a handful of screenshots - but it's not a reason to take the right of doing the complete opposite \:\)

AJ

#1389098 - 08/23/03 05:15 AM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  

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I've never been contacted by them or talked to them.

I even offered to build aircraft FOR FREE, in exchange for 2 copies of the finished product.



.

#1389099 - 08/23/03 06:07 AM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  

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It's not "FREE" then, is it? ;\)

#1389100 - 08/23/03 04:05 PM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  

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Rest assured that we won't be rushing out "Knights Over Europe" before it is ready. We have already laid out the project's schedule and we are sticking to it. There won't be a mad dash to get it out in time for a certain buying season.

Mathew 'JP4' Herman
Producer
Aspect Simulations, LLC

#1389101 - 08/23/03 04:47 PM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  

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Quote:
Originally posted by Mossey:
It's not "FREE" then, is it? ;\)
A minor technicality......

\:D :p \:D

.

#1389102 - 08/23/03 05:28 PM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  
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Barkhorn1x Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by AspectSim-JP4:
There won't be a mad dash to get it out in time for a certain buying season.

Mathew 'JP4' Herman
Producer
Aspect Simulations, LLC
Now that's the kind of response that makes me feel better already. ;\)

Mat - I still think it's a good idea to reach out to guys like von Helton, Kess and the SWISSA team. I'm sure they can give you a bunch of ideas - probably for free!

Barkhorn.


"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion."--- William Ralph Inge

"The ORIGINAL Barkhorn"
#1389103 - 08/23/03 06:29 PM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  
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Guderian Offline
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Quote:

There won't be a mad dash to get it out in time for a certain buying season.
You mean Easter?


"I prefer to fly alone ... when alone, I perform those little coups of audacity which amuse me" - Ren Fonck
#1389104 - 08/24/03 02:05 AM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  

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Quote:
Originally posted by guderian ente:
Quote:

There won't be a mad dash to get it out in time for a certain buying season.
You mean Easter?
Yup.

Get in my way, and I'll beat ya over the head with my plastic crusafix!

:p
:rolleyes:
.

#1389105 - 08/24/03 02:12 AM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  

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Quote:
Originally posted by AspectSim-JP4:
Rest assured that we won't be rushing out "Knights Over Europe" before it is ready. We have already laid out the project's schedule and we are sticking to it. There won't be a mad dash to get it out in time for a certain buying season.

Mathew 'JP4' Herman
Producer
Aspect Simulations, LLC
S! JP4

Here is my contact information:

hel0695@charter.net

vonhelton@hotmail.com

#1389106 - 08/28/03 07:37 AM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  
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This is good to hear. \:D


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#1389107 - 10/07/03 10:45 PM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  
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VF-2 John Banks Offline
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No publisher yet? \:\( . I hope you will find one. But stay away from Strategy First! They ruined the PR for Strike Fighters and like to rush amd release things which are still unfinished.
I guess there aren't many publishers out there which are interested in flightsim heh? Isn't it better to make sure that there will be a publisher once the game reached a certain level of developement? I think it might be a bit too late to look for one once the game went beta.


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#1389108 - 10/07/03 10:53 PM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  
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FlyXwire Offline
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JB,

Aspect has subsequently secured a publisher for KOE!

See the SimHQ Q&A interview for the announcement:

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_069a.html

This was excellent news! \:\)

#1389109 - 10/08/03 09:22 AM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  

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Quote:
Originally posted by AspectSim-JP4:
Rest assured that we won't be rushing out "Knights Over Europe" before it is ready. We have already laid out the project's schedule and we are sticking to it. There won't be a mad dash to get it out in time for a certain buying season.

Mathew 'JP4' Herman
Producer
Aspect Simulations, LLC
Good to hear!

Hautz

#1389110 - 10/08/03 04:32 PM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  
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VF-2 John Banks Offline
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Thanky Fly! Now the question is who this "mysterious" publisher is. They said that the publisher already put the release date back into Q4 2004. That doesn't sound like Strategy First ;\) .


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#1389111 - 10/08/03 06:48 PM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  

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Quote:
Originally posted by VF-2 John Banks:
Thanky Fly! Now the question is who this "mysterious" publisher is. They said that the publisher already put the release date back into Q4 2004. That doesn't sound like Strategy First ;\) .
Let them take as long as they like.

If anyone tells them to hurry up, I'll break their fingers!

:p

Lots of good sims are rushed out the door, and I don't want this one to end up that way.

#1389112 - 10/10/03 04:46 PM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  
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Yes take 5 years if you like (eek did I say that?) but make sure you have a secure network.. Half-Life 2
;\)


Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of epic, immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#1389113 - 10/24/03 07:36 AM Re: Will KOE be Another RBII??  
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Neal Offline
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I don't think it's at all fair to pick on RB2. There were changes in development teams and what, 7 years in getting it out? When you set the frame of a code project and then make major changes as often as that one had to have been while key people keep disappearing from the project then it's a freaking wonder the thing gets released at all. Running out of money and time is a reality! I still have my copy and by April 98 it was patched pretty good for the times. STF-what it wasn't up to peoples' pumped-up expectations? Life ain't so good as some people want!

The terrain? I remember the terrain in what I had from that era and I can't say RB2 terrain was bad at all. I still have some sims from those years as well. Not loaded or running, but I have em! By LATER standards it wasn't so good but that kind of thing will always be true. The only sims that went farther in terrain and details had how many different planes???

I remember RB2 as being pretty advanced for 1998 and RB3D for both setting higher standards and failing to meet them in most notably the FM. If we had all had much more powerful PC's then there would have been no GGS and no need to fix what really wasn't broken, then maybe the RB3D FM would have been better in the end too. Well, the chart whiners probably would have kept the FM from being all that good except in full power speed and climb while the rest suffered, but that's just my conjecture.

Yeah you KOE guys should take advantage of the community! Make the right interface tools and there will be support for your product. That's right, you won't have to make a great deal of things if you leave some hooks even if you don't make the sim completely open. That's support that you don't have to do. The quantity will be high to match the quality of the sim and the quality will be a matter of web survival of the fittest.

If you can open out an AI API of any kind for higher level strategy and tactics then you will get people involved that no one else has before. Even moreso with the campaigns just by providing logs and a console command set. Modellers and painters, how many planes can you spend time on vs how many can the community make? Even Oleg manages to use that kind of help. If only so many plane models can be used at once then can't they be swapped? The surface has only been scratched deeply so far ever.


Neal


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