Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
#111193 - 08/29/05 03:31 PM AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,343
shan2 Offline
Veteran
shan2  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 10,343
Maryland, USA
Quote:
Speaking of PPUs, if you guys had a chance to ask AGEIA questions about how their PPU could improve your favorite sim(s), what would you ask? The hardware geek in me is more concerned with API support, developer hurdles (such as supporting a PPU while still offering graceful, software-based fallback mdoes in a game).
I thought this one deserved its own topic.

Things I'd like to know:

1. What kind of benefits can we see (in terms of fidelity and framerates) by pushing off the flight models onto a dedicated PPU?

2. Can the damage models be more exacting with the PPU? I'm hoping to see a dramatic improvement in ballistics models, though it's difficult to imagine how Oleg's latest and greatest can be improved.

3. What do they think of nVidia's plans of integrating a PPU with the G80?


You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#111194 - 08/29/05 08:21 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
John Reynolds Offline
Member
John Reynolds  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
Keep 'em coming.


Space for rent.
#111195 - 08/29/05 10:19 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,839
Allen Offline
Hotshot
Allen  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,839
Ohio USA
Good questions. I imagine a flight sim should be one of the best candidates for a PPU -- though flight and weapon models may need total revisions to use it.

I had not read about the G80, but others have suggested that the future of the PPU is as part of a "Game Card" that incorporates both graphics processor and a physics processor.

Personally, I would rather buy separate units -- just as I have a separate TV tuner (not one built into my graphics card) -- as I would not want the expense of changing both everytime I wanted to upgrade one or the other. So, Ageia's thoughts on a combined unit would be interesting.

4. When will they release a PCI-E version of the PPU? I think I will be waiting for that one.

5. Will they have a range of models (pricewise) to pick from (as with graphics cards)?

6. If so, how would performance vary between cards? Maybe I am looking for an analogy with graphics cards in various price ranges.

7. What price range(s) do they plan?

8. Will flight sim flight and weapons models need to be "re-engineered" to use a PPU?


Sapphire Pulse RX7900XTX, 3 monitors = 23P (1080p) + SAMSUNG 32" Odyssey Neo G7 1000R curve (4K/2160p) + 23P (1080p), AMD R9-7950X (ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420), 64GB RAM@6.0GHz, Gigabyte X670E AORUS MASTER MB, (4x M.2 SSD + 2xSSD + 2xHD) = ~52TB storage, EVGA 1600W PSU, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower, ASUS RT-AX89X 6000Mbps WiFi router, VKB Gladiator WW2 Stick, Pedals, G.Skill RGB KB, AORUS Thunder M7 Mouse, W11 Pro
#111196 - 08/30/05 04:45 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
John Reynolds Offline
Member
John Reynolds  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
I'm no programmer, but a game's code would have to be changed to use the physics API, allowing the in-game physics code to be off-loaded from the CPU to the PPU (a la software to hardware acceleration); and there could certainly be issues involved in doing this, depending on how the game is written. But depending on the game and how much CPU utilization its physics code was consumming, all that's going to do is give a slight-moderate performance increase. Worth $250 to your average gamer/simmer? Probably not. What AGEIA needs, IMO, is a AAA title that exploits the hardware's capabilities in a way that's really appreciable to the consumer. GlQuake was the game that leveraged 3dfx's Voodoo 1 boards into systems in early '97, justifying thier $250-300 stickers. AGEIA claims they have a few unannounced, and major, titles lined up for product launch this Christmas so it'll be interesting to see how they make use of this PPU.

Allen,

Some of your questions have already been somewhat addressed in other interviews. The PCIe version will follow depending on market up-take of the initial cards (AGP). Product lineup will be fairly simple, and the only AIB that's announced a card so far as I'm aware is ASUS ($250).


Space for rent.
#111197 - 08/30/05 05:27 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
From what I understood, this won't change the ways things work so much as allow MORE of them. Instead of 100 objects on screen with physics acting on them, they could have 1000 or 10,000 or whatever. That means more realistic looking scenes.
I don't know about actual damage models improving any. The APPEARANCE may improve, with things such as bent sheet metal flapping in the wind and occasionally breaking off, but as far as how the plane responds to damage or whatnot I don't think this will make a difference.
Same thing for flight models. I suppose it could allow MORE planes in the air at once with AFMs like BoB or LOMAC's Su-25, but this isn't the same thing as a 3D accelerator or even EAX/A3D.

At least, that's the way all the info put out so far has seemed. Any clarifications on this would be welcomed.


The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#111198 - 08/30/05 05:58 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
John Reynolds Offline
Member
John Reynolds  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
The "more of" scenario is just one, and perhaps the most heavily used, example of how a PPU could benefit a game, and likely viewed as an interim way of providing some level of support for a PPU without heavy code changes to an existing engine.

Physics deal with how everything in a game world acts, reacts, and interacts with other objects. It goes well beyond ragdoll physics or objects breaking into more pieces when destroyed. Almost all examples I've seen suggested deal with classic mechanical properties, so I'm wondering if AGEIA's PPU can handle other forms of interaction properties, such as thermodynamics or electromagnetism (great idea from one of the engineers I work with).


Space for rent.
#111199 - 08/30/05 11:27 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,014
Davros Offline
Hotshot
Davros  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,014
Liverpool
Bet on soldier has gone gold

Bet On Soldier: Blood Sport will be optimized to take full advantage of AMD's next generation 64-bit AMD Athlon 64 FX processor and AGEIA Technologies' revolutionary PhysX chip and NovodeX Physics SDK.


SimHq's Resident Gaming God
#111200 - 08/31/05 05:39 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
EM fields, LOL, I remember back in the Falcon 3 days starting a thread on Prodigy about what would happen to an F-16 that flew through a 1T field...

That was back when I was in college and I remembered all that physics and engineering stuff. I think I suppressed it when I left. \:\(


The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#111201 - 09/01/05 02:17 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
John Reynolds Offline
Member
John Reynolds  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
Just read on the front page of [H] that BFG is also partnering with AGEIA to bring a PPU board to market. Great news.


Space for rent.
#111202 - 09/01/05 03:27 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
John Reynolds Offline
Member
John Reynolds  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
I swear, the next post I read that suggests that all this PPU is capable of is offloading physics from the CPU and thus giving a game just a few more frames. . . .

IMO, AGEIA is really going to need a killer app at launch time that shows what this hardware can truly do.


Space for rent.
#111203 - 09/01/05 06:03 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,827
Huey52 Offline
Hotshot
Huey52  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,827
New England
Deleted my post. I was only joking, but I don't want our H/W Editor needlessly blowing a sprocket. ;\)

#111204 - 09/01/05 06:43 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
John Reynolds Offline
Member
John Reynolds  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
LOL You didn't have to do that, Bill. I wasn't really mad about your post. I used the wrong emoticon to convey that.

I do think, however, that people are taking a very myopic view toward the capabilities of this hardware. Physics deal with how all objects in a game act, react, and interact with each other, and we should let our imaginations a little freedom for picturing what could be done rather than limiting ourselves to just ragdoll physics or offloading whatever limited physics code is running from the CPU to a PPU. From a Call of Duty 2 that could use dynamic terrain deformation, crumbling buildings and the subsequent loss of cover for infantry to more advanced flight and damage models, ballistics, and physical properties in a RPG that sees a guard tower set on fire and watching it slowly crumble as it burns to the grown, ad nauseum.


Space for rent.
#111205 - 09/01/05 06:53 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 17,733
Joe Offline
Veteran
Joe  Offline
Veteran

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 17,733
Bridgewater, NJ
Quote:
Originally posted by John Reynolds:
I wasn't really mad about your post. I used the wrong emoticon to convey that.
Actually, I think the rotary-barreled rocket launcher conveys sunshine and happiness.
\:D

#111206 - 09/01/05 07:30 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
John Reynolds Offline
Member
John Reynolds  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 862
Well, in my reality it does.


Space for rent.
#111207 - 09/02/05 06:17 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,162
Turbo Offline
Member
Turbo  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,162
This reminds me of an article I posted about using extra graphics cards to perform math intensive calculations on mobos with extra PCI-Express slots. Very similar to the PPU concept or the PPU concept is very similar to it...


Celebrating 35+ years in the field of avionics....my how time flies!
#111208 - 09/02/05 06:19 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,162
Turbo Offline
Member
Turbo  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,162
Gee, the more I think about it, it's not a bad idea. Everytime you upgrade to the latest graphics card, just move the old one over a few slots and let it do some work for you instead of collecting dust.


Celebrating 35+ years in the field of avionics....my how time flies!
#111209 - 09/18/05 11:41 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 429
vmann Offline
Member
vmann  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 429
New Hampshire
Okay guys, I give up! What's a PPU?


Athlon X2 4800+, Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe, 2Gb OCZ PC4000 EB Plat, 74G 10k WD Raptor, 2 X Leadtek 7900GTX, Audigy 2 Zs, SeaSonic 600W PSU, Windows XP Home, CH Products Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, Pro Pedals USB.
#111210 - 09/19/05 12:47 AM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 284
Mannymal Offline
Boeing 767 Driver
Mannymal  Offline
Boeing 767 Driver
Member

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 284
Brooklyn, NY
Physics Processing Unit
Basically its supposed to handle most physics related calculations for an engine, plus adding a bunch more effects that would not be possible without the specialized hardware.

If it lives up to its potential, it could revolutionize computer simulations the same way 3Dfx revolutionized 3D graphics.

#111211 - 09/28/05 03:17 PM Re: AEGIA PPU Questions  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 15,786
Haggart Offline
I Fought Diablo
Haggart  Offline
I Fought Diablo
Veteran

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 15,786
The Lone Star State
stop eating squid shan


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0