Poor *******s. Well, it's no fun trying to fight like that. BVR becomes nothing more than a frantic chase between the disappearing target blips and your TDC. You mentioned that you'll be out turned if you try and dogfight? I haven't encountered that except with F-16's. With all the other fighters I seem to easily get them close enough to use the 73 with the helmet sight. I sure am glad when I've unloaded most of my missiles, though. You have insane inertia when you're fully loaded.