Originally posted by Osram: JRT, ..... However, there are still some things I will maybe never understand. One really strange thing is that the most fanatical fighters, the Japanese, Russians and German, were the ones with the dictatures. .
They were the brainwashed ones. Of course, the russians and the germans were locked in a to the death battle. The ideological struggles between the policies on both sides, and the accelerated cruelty on the EF made for fanatical combat. Prisoners did not do too well on either side. Then there is the bushido, too long to go into that here, but that explains a lot of the japanese behaviour and the ill treatment of their captives and conquered.
Quote:
.... IMHO the strangest are the Russians. Shortly after a big purge to the armed forces by Stalin, the soldiers fire their grenade launchers from muddy ground until they sink into it from the recoil and suffocate. .
An anecdote, for which the 'FWIW' comment is appropriate. The fanaticism of the russians is understandable, given the odds and the nazi terror that they faced.
Quote:
I think the driving force behind by far most german soldiers was "Pflicht", duty. That's why they still fought to the end, but not further. .
This is one of the never answered questions of WWII and the nazi era. My guess that it never truly will be answered.
Quote:
... Unfortunately, I think, your story up to now is not very realistic. That is not a blame. I find it very interesting nonetheless. It has many moral questions..
So do I hehe.
Quote:
BTW, I think not only the stupidity of Hitler, Goering etc contributed to nazi germanys downfall, but also the basis of their politics. .
Stupidity is relative. One cannot deny the 'achievements' of the nazis, and without the leadership of Hitler this likely would not have happened. Also, Goering may have degenerated into an obese painkiller addicted charicature, but the man was not a moron. Apparently, and I guess one needs tobe a legal expert to appreciate it, which I am not, he put forward quite a formidable defence of himself at the nueremburg trials.
[/B][/QUOTE]So, while the anti semitism helped them in some circles to win votes (At that time, anti semitism was quite wide spread, all over the world), it also hurt them immensly in the scientific community where there were many jews (like Einstein), many who had jews as friends and many who simply were able to think about things unemotionally and who due to things like this wanted to see nazi germany fall. From the people working on the a-bomb, some were german (like the head off the a-bomb design) and almost all knew or had worked in germany..[/B][/QUOTE]
The nazi empire and party was quite unsavoury even without the antisemitism.... and one has to keep in mind that even where antisemitism was rather widespread, I have read a particularly nasty little exercise by Henry Ford myself, having the industrial resources of a modern nation directed toward the destruction of jewry, indeed succesfully destroying the eastern european 'shtetl' culture, rather takes the mottled oyster.
Quote:
.
Whenever you dashed well feel like it old chap! If all fails, turn on the MS word spell checker!
Quote:
Another policy that dearly cost the nazis was their "back to the roots - women bear children and are inthe kitchen" mentality. .
Quite, and prolly part of the 'heile welt' sort of celebration of what was truly German. In Holland, from where Y.S. hails, whenever the Wandervogel, no matter how innocent, start raving about the beauty of nature, the woods, the water and the like, the old folks used to get ever that bit apprehensive. This includes a bit of suspicion toward the german greenies, who sometimes appear a bit too close the the geramn 'Boden' hehe.
Quote:
So, they used many foreign workers, who, not so surprisingly, sabotaged a lot. IMHO sabotage is the major effect of war that has been most overlooked..
Vz Oskar Schindler, whose factory apparently did not produce a single working grenade after they were forced to quit making pots and pans.
Quote:
Also, the mentality of the Nazis towards the "russians" also was very important. The people from the ucrain welcomed the Germans as liberators. The German attitude changed that fast, made them first unwilling to help and then partisans, making logistics to the russian front very difficult. .
This is a longstanding myth, that perhaps deserves further investigating. Certainly not all ukrainians are against russia at this time, and I find it rather questionable that there was mass support for the germans, even at an early stage. we have seen the pictures of people handing over flowers to the germans, but these kind of pictures have been shot in Holland and France also, and similarly when the liberating allies came by, flowers, and a bit more, were handed out also
Quote:
BTW, there is a case of a high ranking nazi official (Gau Leiter), who said exactly this fairly at the beginning and warned against the arrogant treatment of the "russians". .
Even earlier there was conflict within the german hierarchy about the treatmetn of the Poles. A certain Franck comes to mind....
Quote:
...... ..Oh well, after this rant against (nazi) germany, I like living in todays germany. I do not know any country that stands up to its bad past like the germans.
Germany deserves praise for the unrelenting soul searching about the third reich. There were always lots of documentaries on german telly, which we could watch as we lived in the east of holland. ANd german literature is replete with the subject. This is a lot more than can be said of our erstwhile enemies in the far east. Nanking???? ehh.... yes, wasn't tthere a riot somewhere in the early part of the century?? I won't buy japanese consumer goods if I can help it. I don't have a problem with german goods. And germans are not the most obnoxious people when traveling abroad anymore either. This disctinction now truly goes to the french ;p
Quote:
Obviously, after the war, there were those that still were convinced of the ideology and those that wanted to be convinced. I can not even totally blame them;: If you have gone through hell, have seen most of your friends die a horrible death in front of you, maybe be wounded yourself and suffer, then it must be very hard to say "it was for nothing". S! to all that can face up to this.
This to me is the question that won't go away. How could the nation with the highest rate of literacy, the highest amount of people going for higher education, the technological, scientific, industrial, artistic, cultural etc etc leading nation of europe go for national socialism.... I guess the anser is if it could happen in germany, given the right circumstances, it could happen anywhere.
