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#2255106 - 07/10/07 08:35 AM The Arma M24 sniper  
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Draven Offline
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I would like to share my thoughts and experience with sniping in ARMA.

First of all I would like to say that being sniper is not about getting the most kills. That should not be your goal. Your job is to scout the enemy and take targets of opportunity. The more you fire, the more your enemy may home in on your position. For this reason you should focus on the primary targets of 12.7 gunners, snipers and AT soldiers. These are the ones that can do the most damage at range to the approaching assault team. Save the others for later. Again, you are trying to keep your presence hidden for as long as possible. In real life you would make a shot and relocate in most situations. That is not always going to be possible in game. Your assault team will be depending on you to be in position.

Ideally you will position yourself at 500 or more meters to better conceal your position and sound from the enemy. Many times however you will have to be closer than 300 meters. In these cases you should be extra careful about making only the needed shots else the enemy will home in on you much quicker. At greater ranges your shots will take longer to hit your target. The M24 takes approximately 1.5 seconds to hit at 600 meters and about 2.5 seconds at 1000 meters. Take this in account when your target is moving. In a perfect world your targets will stand still, open their shirt and show you a bulls eye.

I feel it is important that the sniper or sniper team be in position well before the assault team arrives on local. This way they can spot patrols and combatants and keep an eye on their positions.

The sniper team should be positioned away from each other, perhaps at ninety degrees around the target. This way they have varied fields of vision and fire. If two snipers must be on the same hill they should be on opposite sides or far enough apart that one grenade will kill both.

The M107 is a fantastic weapon but it is louder than a dinosaur fart. (I know this because we still have dinosaurs here in Texas. It was the only place large enough). This loudness gives much more opportunity for your enemy to home in on you at close ranges. The M107 is best used only at very long range for this reason. If you are going on a mission where you know you will be at close range, take the M24 instead. If you are going to be at 500 or less meters the MK12 is a nice weapon. At ranges greater than that its accuracy is unpredictable. Thus the M24 is a better choice if you are shooting a long and short range but the MK12s high capacity and high rate of fire is invaluable for close encounters.

Below I have included screen shots detailing M24 sight picture at various ranges. The illustrations will show you how large a man will appear in the reticule at certain ranges. You can use this to determine how far the target is at what range. For instance, at 600 meters the enemy will be 3.5 pips tall in the reticule. To the right of that you will see that placing the reticule approximately 2.75 pips down will give you a chest shot.

I hope these are some aid in your righteous diplomacy.















Notice the image on the right shows a white dot. Just like the red dot there is not white dot on your reticule but is included here to give you a sense of distance on the bar.



The illustrations at 1200 and greater range show a red bar(s) in the image. The bar represents the length of half of the vertical reticule.






Yeah. You can make shots at 1600 meters. That is a mile for those non-metric people(1609 meters). A shot made at a mile places the target about an inch from the bottom of the screen.

For setting these up I placed everything on the large airport on the map, i.e. from Evolution. I was four hundred meters east off of the runway on a hilltop. To get 1600 meters the last guy is off of the far side of the runway and is actually slightly down hill.

I also made some videos of me taking each shot but I am trying to figure out where to host them. I used Fraps and turned the settings down and even though they are only about 15 seconds each they are 60 megs each.


Draven
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Burke"

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#2255149 - 07/10/07 10:37 AM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Draven]  
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Nixer Online cool
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Neat Draven....great info.

But how realistic is a 1600m kill with a 7.62 NATO? I really don't know, that's why I am asking. But I do know someone who does, I'll see if I can get him to pop in and comment.

That's my biggest complaint with the M107...the reticule. With a different reticule on the 107's scope, you could really "reach out and touch someone".


"I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging of the future but by the past."
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I personally believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and that deficit spending is sustainable forever. We really do need more Admirals in the Navy than ships and that millions of more poor immigrants will jump start the economy.

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#2255184 - 07/10/07 12:07 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Nixer]  
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The problem isn't the reticule...the problem is that you can't adjust elevation and windage. Normally you wouldn't raise the crosshair above the target...

Thanks for the detailed description, Draven.

#2255189 - 07/10/07 12:17 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Draven]  
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Damn you! You just gave away all my secrets! Now EVERYONE will become a good shot.

Grrr.

;\)

#2255251 - 07/10/07 02:01 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Razorback]  
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Great info, thanks Draven.

#2255289 - 07/10/07 02:53 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Wepps]  
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thanx... your first para is spot on.. [rant]everyone that gets the snpr rifles tries an gets the most kills.. DONT..the infantry do that, we scout..[/rant]

great work thanx Draven.


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#2255304 - 07/10/07 03:15 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Wepps]  
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Good stuff Draven. Screenshots and all.

Thanks!


"My doctor says I wouldn't get so many nosebleeds if I kept my finger out of there." - Ralph Wiggum
#2255327 - 07/10/07 03:48 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Biff99]  
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Anyone know if elevation and windage controls going to be added to scopes at any point? The M107 is a bit difficult to use being permanently sighted to 1000m right now.


I keep playing video games, but the Star League keeps ignoring me...
#2255347 - 07/10/07 04:09 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: joey45]  
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Originally Posted By: joey45
thanx... your first para is spot on.. [rant]everyone that gets the snpr rifles tries an gets the most kills.. DONT..the infantry do that, we scout..[/rant]


Preach on!

#2255520 - 07/10/07 08:01 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Razorback]  
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Draven Offline
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The M107 appears to have the same magnification as the M24 or is practically the same for measurement needs so, you can use the screen shots above to tell how far they are from you.

Basically the M24 zeros at 300 meters (as it should) and the M107 zeros at 500 meters. (dont know about should on this one).

Oddly enough there are points where the two are very similar in how much to raise. Yeah. It would be nice to have elevation control like Land Warrior had in it. That game also had wind too but oddly enough no windage controls.

Range --M24 pips ----M107 pips --MK12 pips
200 ----- low -------2.5 low -------1 low
300 -----0 -----------------2 low --------- low
400 ----- high ------1 low
500 -----1 high ----0 ---------------1 high
600 -----2 high ----1.5 high
700 -----4 high ----------2.5 high
800 -----5.2 high -------3.5 high
900 -----6 high ----------5 high
1000 ----7.2 high -------6.5 high
1100 ----9 high ----------9 high
1200 ----9.7 high ------10.2 high
1300 ----12.5 high -----12.2 high
1400 ----14.5 high -----14.8 high
1500 ----15.5 high -----16.5 high
1600 ----18.8 high -----19 high

I definitely like the M24 as a weapon but I will say that at long ranges the M107 is more stable and easier to aim. Up close it probably does not mater as much. The MK12 allows you to put a lot of shots off into groups that are charging you (it happens) but it takes too many darn bullets to kill. I think they have that one loaded with .22 shorts.

#2255636 - 07/10/07 10:57 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Draven]  
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deffently gonna make a range card for this one...


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#2256163 - 07/11/07 03:06 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: joey45]  
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I made this litte comparision chart from LuckyDanDravens numbers:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pAUV47gwZqUsUY2H8t6YLRw

I know that a true range card includes other information areas as well but I guess the range/pips/aim information is sufficient for the game.

Last edited by Boopidoo; 07/11/07 03:07 PM.
#2256314 - 07/11/07 06:10 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Boopidoo]  
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Last edited by joey45; 07/11/07 06:18 PM.

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#2256394 - 07/11/07 07:17 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: joey45]  
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Originally Posted By: joey45


There, I fixed it for you.

#2256435 - 07/11/07 07:50 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Razorback]  
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dont get what you mean RB..


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#2256443 - 07/11/07 07:55 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: joey45]  
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Originally Posted By: Razorback
Originally Posted By: joey45


There, I fixed it for you.

Look hard at the quote.

He fixed some grammer issues...



"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here."

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#2256445 - 07/11/07 08:00 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Brennus]  
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I cant help it im dyslexic... thanx RB

Last edited by joey45; 07/11/07 08:00 PM.

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#2256975 - 07/12/07 08:48 AM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: joey45]  
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I made these diagrams using the numbers given:

http://www.boopidoo.com/fajlz/ArmA-SniperRangeCard.htm


The "Scope Range Diagram" shows how the markers in the scope compares to the distance to target. Use this to obtain the distance to a standing target.


The "Range Elevation Diagram" shows what elevation you should use when you know the distance to target.


The "Target Size Elevation Diagram" is probably the most useful one since it shows the elevation needed directly from the target size.

Last edited by Boopidoo; 07/12/07 06:50 PM.
#2257031 - 07/12/07 11:41 AM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: Draven]  
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Dan, they're mils, not pips. Mils are short for milliradians. There are 2000 * Pi milliradians in a circle. The Army and the Marines round differently, so their reticles aren't quite compatible with each other.

Plus, it's not physically possible to make an accurate shot on a man-sized target using the M24SWS at better than ~1200 meters because the bullet is no longer supersonic. The bullet wobbles a great deal when it slows through the sound barrier, dramatically increasing the spread (and group sizes) at that distance. You'll run into a similar problem with .22LR if you try to shoot it past 200 yards.

However, your article is good information on the game.


You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
#2257237 - 07/12/07 04:41 PM Re: The Arma M24 sniper [Re: shan2]  
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Draven Offline
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I assume most people here are not familiar, I know some are, with mils or minute of angle. For game purposes I have simplified the information as much as possible. Its a game. Why complicate it.

As far as "physically possible" to make accurate shots past 1200 meters, well I guess I will just stop doing it in game. The "point" being, its a game guys. If you can make a shot at 1200, 1400 or 1600 meters, well I am going to. Who cares if it is not realistic in the real world. I dare to say as well that most of you guys will never shoot anyone at that range anyway.

Again, I hope this information comes in handy for you guys in game. If any of you get busted trying to use this information in the real world, I will not take responsibility \:\)

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