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#4443561 - 10/13/18 12:38 PM Rust  
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Anyone still play this? What's the current state of play if I wanted to play MP as a lone player? I've been watching some YT videos lately and KOS seems the norm,is that true?


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#4443623 - 10/13/18 07:16 PM Re: Rust [Re: Chucky]  
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I haven't played it and assume by KOS you mean kill on sight?

For years I've followed games like DayZ because the concept is so appealing to me, but I never buy these games. And not sure I can adequately describe why. But at it's root is the way that players interact.

If something like a zombie apocalypse were to happen in real life, and folks were left to survive on their own in a hostile world, how would they behave? How would they react when encountering another survivor? This sort of psychological mystery fascinates me, and makes me want to live in a virtual world where this would play out.

Two things I think are at the root. One, people suck. Two, it's a game.

Now imagine this is real. You are alone, scared, with little in terms of food, clothing, shelter, self defense, companionship, hope. How would you react if you spot another human? I think people will naturally gravitate and bond with folks under unusual, threatening circumstances, when there is a real, shared threat to their safety. Folks pull together when they have a common enemy, whether it be the environment, or predators, or anything. There is safety in numbers, two people can accomplish more than double what one can on his own. Not to mention the human need for companionship, or to feel they aren't in it alone.

In a virtual world, these tendencies offer an amazing potential gaming experience. This is what makes the thought of such a game so appealing.

But back to the two things, people suck, and it's a game. In a game there is no real sense of danger, of loneliness. You can always switch servers or log off and go have a beer with your mate. It's artificial. So what we end up with is KOS players who just want that bloke's stuff. All of the other base human reaction is absent. It removes the things which I personally feel would be the most amazing parts of such an experience, and I just don't buy these games as a result.

In a game, a player sees someone at distance. And opens fire. There's stuff over there after all, and if I kill that blob of pixels it will be my stuff. But what if there's a chance it's your own brother out there? Your dad? Your best friend or neighbor? What if he has skills that would help me survive, or a safe shelter he might share? All of this means nothing in a game, and the true potential of these games, interaction, is reduced to kill everything. Only stuff matters.

I'm not naive enough to think that even in a real life scenario such as these that there wouldn't be people who are threats, who do want to kill you no questions asked. But in these games this becomes the norm, the first instinct. Kill first, take their stuff later. Because, it's a game. I also realize that there are many cases of two players meeting and forging ahead together. None of this is black and white. But when the motivations are shifted, the actions are shaped to fit.

I am answering a question that hadn't been asked, but it's something I've thought about quite a bit. It's a genre I am certainly interested in, but for reasons that don't actually exist, at least in a public server. Playing with friends removes most of the KOSence, but also removes the unknown, and uncertainty. There is so much potential for an amazing experience with these sorts of games, but I find it just all boils down to take the other guy's stuff. Most folks won't care, and for many this is the attraction. For me however, I see more there, but it just doesn't happen.

Sorry if I derailed your thread too much Chucky, but these sorts of things interest me smile


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4443626 - 10/13/18 07:47 PM Re: Rust [Re: Chucky]  
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Yeah I meant 'kill on sight' and your input is appreciated.

A lot of these 'survival' games interest me,but the only 2 I have played recently are ARK Survival and Miscreated. It sucks that players have to be douche-nozzles but that's the nature of MP games I guess.

Rust looks interesting but before I commit to purchase I'd like to hear from any SimHQ members who play it.


EV's are the Devils matchbox.
#4443627 - 10/13/18 07:48 PM Re: Rust [Re: Chucky]  
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I could have summed up all I wrote just by saying douche-nozzles. You've boiled it down for me so thanks smile


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4443705 - 10/14/18 07:04 PM Re: Rust [Re: Chucky]  
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DBond strikes again smile

What you describe DBond sounds good and should be doable in Arma.
Delete all inventory on a player when killed, now there's no reason to kill other than maybe being the only one to reach that helo wreck with goodies.
Let players starve on ammo.
Add wolf packs and other threats along with the zombies (or replace, I'm not too found of zombie stuff) making it very hard to survive a confrontation all solo, now you will team up with other players to survive.
Maybe add abilities to players, one or two at best out of maybe 8, that can be improved and you will have another reason to join others.

Balance it all to make survival still a struggle or even a win scenario after a few hours of struggle (leave area in a ship or whatever) and let the server restart.

#4443790 - 10/15/18 03:27 PM Re: Rust [Re: Chucky]  
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Ah, fine points Oden old chum. While I feel like this behavior should could be the norm, as a game (and for the average gamer) this sort of behavior would need to be incentivized.

But how so? The first thought that came to mind is that a player would need to declare his loyalty or allegiance or whatever you might call it to another player, friend him. And then certain bonuses could be conveyed to each player, scaled to distance.. As an example, for anyone that has hunted big game, like elk sized animals, and then needed to drag that animal back to camp. Over hills, through thickets and forests, over streams, through snow and so on. This is HARD work. a 200 pound plus carcass is hard to move through rough country. But if there is a second person there to help the task becomes much more manageable. This is the sort of situation where each person benefits from working together. So maybe strength, speed, health, vitality, agility or whatever mechanics the game used could be increased when inside the radius. I doubt the game will feature actually dragging the elk back to camp, but the game could incentivize this and reward the players for working together. Hunt together, bag some game, both benefit more than if either had done it on his own. Add a decay so that a couple days after the hunt the effects are diminishing.

This could be extrapolated to all things. Build a shelter together and it's stronger, more secure. Patrol together and awareness, or sight or whatever is increased, and so on and so on.

While I think these sorts of mechanics and systems would encourage teamwork, I also realize the two things. And so despite this I don't know that anything would change. I think it's more down to player mindset than game mechanics. Interesting to ponder though.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4444344 - 10/18/18 10:35 PM Re: Rust [Re: Chucky]  
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So it's dangerous, I know. But I've had more time to think.

I also read through Steam comments on the Rust page. These things need to be taken with a grain of salt, but that's true of basically anything you hear, these days anyway. But I find they are a good barometer of the state of a game. And it strikes me as I had guessed it might. Basically, kill everything, take the stuff. One guy was saying that other players will camp outside his door, a few of them, one of him. So his gameplay would consist of the delicate choice of sitting inside, like all the time. Or opening the door and being instantly killed. Fair enough one might say, it's a dog-eat-dog world after all. But it sort of misses the point. That the other players are motivated to sit outside someone's door for hours or days on end, just waiting for this one dude to say the hell with it and open the door. I'll hazard the guess that they want his stuff.

And then I thought more about the incentivization (that a word? spellcheck thinks not) . So what this sort of situation needs is some de-incentivization for those people who flout the rules and make the game world suck. How do you do that? I have no idea, but it could be the inverse of the stuff I talked about earlier. You've got your 'friends' and everyone is benefiting. Murder someone and this breaks, and leaves you unable to join another group for a week, or a month or whatever. Skills or whatever mechanics exist are now lower than even a solo player. The psycopath that door-camps with glee is the same guy who doesn't want to be cast to his own devices is this hostile world. So he thinks twice about wanton murder and crime sprees.

But all of this may not make much sense, or be difficult to program, ineffective or unpopular (this makes games fail). So you're left with games like this, with no consequence for being an ass hole and plenty of motivation to get that guys stuff. It's always going to come down to player mentality. No one is going to play games with too many rules, and there will usually be some way to skirt them anyway. The only way to get it right is to eliminate the douche nozzles, but that might be too tall a hill to climb. It's why folks like co-op and PvP is rarely satisfactory.


No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!
#4444398 - 10/19/18 08:18 AM Re: Rust [Re: Chucky]  
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I think in the end that this game will prove more frustrating than enjoyable for a lone wolf such as myself. If it were on sale I might be tempted however. I should have picked it up before it came out of EA as it was much cheaper I believe.

I did see an answer to the base raiders by a guy on YouTube who built structures that would trap intruders,he even had a whole clan held captive at one time. He would taunt them or get them to kill each other and then he took all their stuff. This was very satisfying to watch although I'm not sure how long it would take to gather the resources to build such a thing.

An example...



EV's are the Devils matchbox.
#4444489 - 10/19/18 07:26 PM Re: Rust [Re: Chucky]  
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I watched most of that at work, with no sound, so not entirely sure what was going on. If nothing else I saw it probably isn't the game for me. But I support any thing that gives douche nozzles their comeuppance.


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