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#3627547 - 08/16/12 12:01 PM Re: Dream on: What would the perfect tank simulation contain? [Re: Hellfish6]
Ssnake Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
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Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 3913
Loc: Germoney
Originally Posted By: Hellfish6
Strike Fighters for tanks.

That's spelled "Steel Beasts Pro". wink
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#3627863 - 08/16/12 09:06 PM Re: Dream on: What would the perfect tank simulation contain? [Re: Ssnake]
Hellfish6 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 256
Originally Posted By: Ssnake
Originally Posted By: Hellfish6
Strike Fighters for tanks.

That's spelled "Steel Beasts Pro". wink


You're right, SB Pro PE is very close (I've bought two copies over the years), but it lacks the ability to quickly and easily add new user content (i.e. mods). Skins are one thing, but new models/terrains/scripts/etc would be excellent. I hope if/when SB2 is developed, some ability to add new user content is allowed. I realize what SB Pro is, and it does an excellent job of it, but, for me, it isn't the perfect tank game.

I've always loved the Cold War tanks - T-55s, T-62s, PT-76s, IS-3s, T-10s, M48s, M103s, M50s, M56s, M41s, Centurions, Conquerors, etc. I don't think most of those have ever been in a tank sim before (save for some bits in WoT and SABoW, both of which have issues).

What I'd like is something like M1 Tank Platoon II, I suppose. A tank game, not necessarily a sim, with a semi-dynamic single player campaign and crew management. Actual theater/tanks is less of an issue. I'm happy with FT-17s or T-90Ms or anything in between.

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#3627973 - 08/17/12 04:25 AM Re: Dream on: What would the perfect tank simulation contain? [Re: Hellfish6]
Ronin_GE Offline
Member

Registered: 05/24/11
Posts: 103
Originally Posted By: Hellfish6
Originally Posted By: Ssnake
Originally Posted By: Hellfish6
Strike Fighters for tanks.

That's spelled "Steel Beasts Pro". wink


You're right, SB Pro PE is very close (I've bought two copies over the years), but it lacks the ability to quickly and easily add new user content (i.e. mods). Skins are one thing, but new models/terrains/scripts/etc would be excellent. I hope if/when SB2 is developed, some ability to add new user content is allowed. I realize what SB Pro is, and it does an excellent job of it, but, for me, it isn't the perfect tank game.

...


Adding new terrain/scripts is pretty simple in my p.o.v. Making them is a royal pain in t** a** :-)
There a users that are working on new maps since 8 month and longer=> if you want quality, thats how its gonne be though.
I think user made vehicles(implying thats what you mean?) are not on the horizon...to complicated :-P

Again, this is where you put your "main effort". If you want campaining, a sensable wargame and a good bit of fun...a complex armour/damage/FCS simulation might not be needed. For that, user-content could be a viable option. For me this would do nothing. Well, "perfect" is something different for everybody.
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#3628086 - 08/17/12 10:22 AM Re: Dream on: What would the perfect tank simulation contain? [Re: RipKirby]
jazjar Online   zombie
Member

Registered: 06/24/11
Posts: 205
Loc: you would look here!
Well I wasn't saying that the level of fidelity in Steelbeasts now is not great. I think it is good for the vehicles you currently simulate. However, would you be willing to pursue that leave, if you ever simulated a CITV, with the different modes it can operate in? Or would you be willing to accurately simulate the IVIS system? In terms of FCS, you are very accurate, The only thing that I could think of would be to have crosswind simulated.

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#3628110 - 08/17/12 10:56 AM Re: Dream on: What would the perfect tank simulation contain? [Re: RipKirby]
Ssnake Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
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Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 3913
Loc: Germoney
Our approach to C2 systems like IVIS, FBCB2, FüInfoSys, and whatnot is to provide an API so that your customers can connect the actual system and devices to the PC, and then use these devices instead of the built-in map screen (I'm referring to the classroom version, not the Personal Edition here). Replicating other people's software is tedious, it would probably raise some security concerns, and it's a rat race to keep up whenever the original manufacturer changes something in the original system. To that extent we think that the API is the best solution as it allows to deliver the desired training effect while keeping us out of the mire of replicating 3rd party software systems (eventually against the resistance of said 3rd party).

Of course, there's always room to rethink the way how we're doing with the map screen in general. I wouldn't mind making the update intervals more variable, depending on the player's location (digitized tank or not, paper map or not, ...). But this will inevitably result in a loss of comfort for about every thank in SB Pro. Just look at how many virtual units are willing in multiplayer sessions to play scenarios with disabled map updates or even entirely disabled map screens. Judging from past experience it is something that most players would not welcome. Grudging acceptance is about the best outcome for which we could hope in this case.
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#3628579 - 08/18/12 07:33 AM Re: Dream on: What would the perfect tank simulation contain? [Re: RipKirby]
Ronin_GE Offline
Member

Registered: 05/24/11
Posts: 103
I personally find playing without the "magic" map hillarious :-D.
You'll find out the 90%-100% of the player are "navigationally challenged". With the usuall level of training/radio disciplin of the contemporary gamers, networkbattles will quickly degenerate into:

-Where is the enemy?
-Where is my unit?
-And most important: Where the hell am I?

This will be followed by uncoordinated surprize encounters with OPFOR and rampamt BLUE on BLUE.

I love this games :-P
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#3628830 - 08/18/12 07:17 PM Re: Dream on: What would the perfect tank simulation contain? [Re: RipKirby]
jazjar Online   zombie
Member

Registered: 06/24/11
Posts: 205
Loc: you would look here!
Fire control systems are not your weakest link, but compared to an actual tank, SB doesn't simulate much. Sure, the firing procedures are the same, but what about thermal sight adjustment, day sight filter, MRS updates, reticle adjustment?

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#3628992 - 08/19/12 02:42 AM Re: Dream on: What would the perfect tank simulation contain? [Re: RipKirby]
Ssnake Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Senior Member

Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 3913
Loc: Germoney
IMO this is one of the cases where the user interface will simply become unwieldy. How much can you do when all that the user has as an input device are mouse movements, mouse clicks, mouse wheel, and keyboard strokes? Steel Beasts already has more than 200 distinctive hotkeys/commands?
Should fiddling with thermal imager controls really be at the focus of our attention? Because that's what you have to do all the time. Whenever you change magnification, adjust the focus. Look at a different area, adjust brightness, adjust contrast. It is a high frequency activity that only distracts from the focus of the simulation, which is combined arms combat tactics (with an emphasis on armored vehicles).

These controls only make sense if you have either a control handle replica with integrated TIS controls, or a replica of a thermal imager's control panel, giving you three or more analogous controls to set brightness, contrast, focus, and maybe also the brightness of the reticule. MRS updates ... yes, I suppose we can do that. Yellow and gray filter - yeah, possible, although one would probably need HDR rendering and a model of atmospheric scattering first before one could apply corresponding shader effects (and to be honest, I never found them THAT useful in real life).
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#3629323 - 08/19/12 03:39 PM Re: Dream on: What would the perfect tank simulation contain? [Re: RipKirby]
jazjar Online   zombie
Member

Registered: 06/24/11
Posts: 205
Loc: you would look here!
Well the brightness, contrast and focus settings are probably best left to the game. Maybe ( this is the dream forum ) if someone developed an iPad app with one of the panels on it, it would simplify switchology and enable settings such as the ones mentioned above. For the hardcore HARDCORE simmers, they could custom build a TRU panel or something, and have it ( almost ) just like in a real tank. ( without the army life wink )

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#3630163 - 08/21/12 01:06 AM Re: Dream on: What would the perfect tank simulation contain? [Re: Ronin_GE]
Brit44 'Aldo' Offline
Every Human is Unique
Member

Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 710
LOL Ronin!
So true. I memember a MP game of Panzer Elite so many years ago when KrappO killed me because he was tired of my bad skills. smile I said I was going one direction but moved the opposit. As soon as I cleared the no kill, spawn zone he killed me. smile the text I recieved was something like 'there were no firendlies moving in that direction'
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