Movies that re-write history

Go!

Gettysburg!

Oh wait, do you mean rewrite history as in change or actual retelling of history?

Queen of the Damned!

The Red Baron.

Ah Brazil...

I guess any of these could be a spoiler for someone, so I'll use spoiler tags:

Braveheart

U-571

Beat me to it.

The Day After

'The Patriot' (AKA Braveheart II...This time its Colonial ) Christ, I feel like throwing a fecking brick through the telly every time I see it. Outrageous!

'U-571', but at least Levey eventually apologised for it lol. 'It was a distortion...a mercenary decision...to create this parallel history in order to drive the movie for an American audience. Both my grandparents [sic] were officers in World War II, and I would be personally offended if somebody distorted their achievements.'

Even Bill Clinton wrote an apology too! 'Merikins, eh?

It would be much more difficult to name ONE movie that does NOT concoct history. Especially if it's from Hollywood (or Bollywood lol).
Please do not tell me you believe what is shown in .. films ??

The ones that Hollywood make.

All theatrical movies rewrite history for the sake of entertaining some are really good for preserving a few history or acurately portraying the written personanities of state of the world at the time,but if you want history lesson read a fcking book or watch a documentry

Hot-tub Timemachine!

Pearl Harbor; for the love of all that is humane, wtf?

Titanic; "Third Class Passenger on deck!" (security arrives with batons to "correct" the situation). Plus they're waist deep in arctic water for an hour without dying of hypothermia.

Apollo Thirteen; perpetuates the myth that the Apollo missions were something other than a propaganda program filmed on a Hollywood stage.

JFK; the stupidity of the conspiracy theories can't be deflected even by the thickest tin foil hat.

Oh, in case someone isn't sure, there's a smiley face that goes on one of these...

Wait what? I thought U-571 was a documentary!


Troy
'Loosely' based on The Iliad - I was shocked to see the many changes from the source, too many to recall...Menelaus dies? wtf? LOL alt ending with Paris (still alive!) and Helen of Sparta escaping! among many. i mean, WTF! LOL
my head was spinning during and after the film! LOL

Actually I thought Titanic followed the book "A Night to Remember" very closely, including details of the lifeboats, the smokestack collapsing, and even the quartet playing right up to the end. I was surprised at it's accuracy.

And therein lies the problem. 90% of your Country probably thinks so, too!

Point taken (lol), but you can understand people who were actually involved personally and still alive being a bit irked by it....No? If you're making a film about a historical event, at least make some effort to contain a bit of truth. A good start would be not blatantly lying about who did it, its the 'little things' like this that can make all the difference.

RE: 'The Patriot', don't get me effin started.

I remember a Battle of Britain film was mooted and supposed to star Tom Cruise as 'Billy Fisk'....mercifully it appears to have been shelved. I can see it now.

Fisk: Get me the Goddamn President....Of Britain on the phone!!!

Churchill: Fisk? I don't like this guy....HE'S DANGEROUS. However, we need every swinging d*ck in the air to save Blighty, and this kid is good. He just might swing the balance......

Fisk: You're GODDAMNED RIGHT I'M MUTHA-F*KKIN DANGEROUS!!! Hold tight President Churchill, here comes the Cavalry, tuh save all O' Y'all asses!!! WHOO-HOO!!!

Etc etc....Fisk shoots down 42 Huns and saves Britain single handedly, US audience believes it, you get the picture.

Yup, like he said, one of the movies deserved a smiley next to it . . .

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned "Pearl Harbor" yet. Ye-gads! They even had some Navy Zero's painted Imperial Army Green--not to mention the two main characters suddenly transforming from trained figher pilots to bomber pilots. Yeah, that happened almost daily in the US Army Air Corps.

and then of course there is "King Kong". I can't believe how that movie distorted what really happened. The ape was only about 3/4's the size as depicted in the movie, and Jack Black was just not believable as Carl Denham.

Cheers


Edit: Oops. Dart mentioned Pearl Harbor

Back to the Future
The Terminator

Not saying Pearl Harbor wasn't historically accurate in the least BUT Zero's were painted green during WWII as well as being painted white, most of the non-carrier based Zero's were "Imperial Army Green" in the later part of the war. Also pilots converting from fighter pilots to bomber and vice versa happened....after conversion training of course. Bert Stiles is an example of a pilot that went from flying B-17s to P-51s

As far as movies that rewrite history:

BAT-21
Saving Private Ryan

What is the contest here... not getting a boner?

Pearl harbor had so much stuff that bothered me. And yes, Zeros were painted green, but not at Pearl Harbor. They were a very light shade of grey. As a matter of fact, The U.S. Navy went over to that same grey color in the late fifties. But, I digress.
No, the Tokyo raiders were NOT fighter pilots. They were the most experienced B-25 pilots in the Army Air Force. Their unit had been the first ones to get the B-25. It's why they were picked.
And NO, the U.S. did not send Ben Affleck, or anybody else for that matter to England to join the Eagle Squadron. Sending U.S. Army pilots to fight for England would have, practically, been declaring war on Germany! We were nuetral, for Pete's Sake! Those guys were all civilians who took it upon themselves to join the fight. It was not with the blessing of the United States. They did it knowing that they would be losing their citizenship, if they did.
Oh, what the hell. there's more, but why bother.

History of the World: Part I

1941

Star Trek (reboot)

Back to the Future 1, 2, 3

Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure

But not the mixing of social classes or the non-hypothermic water.

No way she'd react to some steerage passenger with anything but a demand he step away and leave her alone before she calls a purser.

I like the ones where at the end there's a white guy, a black guy, and a token chick.

(In other words, all of them .....)

"Tora Tora Tora" and "Patton" are about as authentic to history as you can get in a movie that isn't a documentary. Yes, I know Patton's rough and gravely voice in the movie was NOT not like that in real life but is that really a major earth-shattering deviation?

And what's funny are all of the UK actors who are in film. I guess that paycheck was more important than historical accuracy?

Classic

But you forgot the end shot Cruise standing in the sunset, saluting and saying "God bless Amerikee!"

I don't think there is any movie that is 100% authentic to historical fact but IMHO, these are the ones that come to mind which get very close,


1. Patton
2. Tora Tora Tora
3. Das Boot
4. Gettysburg
5. Glory
6. Gods & Generals
7. Battle of Britain
8. The Longest Day
9. Downfall

Dude! Spoiler tags please...




As for PatriotHeart and all those, the English make excellent villains, plus we don't mind that much as the accent over in the US helps with the ladies. Wha ha ha ha.

(I married an American)

Yes I can imagine if you sound like Hugh Grant or Colin Firth you could easily get the ladies but if you sound like Ozzy Osbourne or someone from East London probably not.

I started to go for the Colin Firth vibe, but am gradually turning into the Ozzie. It's sort of like a really slow-paced alien-body abduction movie over 40 years or so.. lol

You do get a 5+ charisma with the accent, but only the shrill BBC circa 1954 mode, plus it doesn't help much if the words said sound good but are complete codswallop . Also, I got into a fight once in New York with a 256th generational Irishman just by sounding a bit foppish - so there are downsides..

Are you English FearlessFrog?

Yes. I live and pay taxes in Canada and the US (for the last 20 years), but grew up in the UK.

Walt Disney's Davey Crockett at the Alamo (1955), where Crockett, his friend Georgie, a riverboat gambler and an ostracized Commanche warrior arrive at the Alamo in time to defend it to the death. Crockett is last seen clubbing down Santa Anna's soldiers with his trusted rifle Betsy while the outro song assures the viewer he died for Liberty.

John Wayne's "The Alamo" (1960), where John Wayne's Crockett, apparently on a tour of Mexican cantinas with his buddies, does a whole lot of Big American stuff including saving a senorita in distress and speechifying about how good the word "Republic" sounds to his ears before eventually blowing himself and the Alamo to bits.

"The Alamo--Thirteen Days To Glory" (1987), a made-for-TV movie that appears to combine the best of John Wayne's (including his Alamo set) and Disney's versions. Crockett dies on the parapet. Jim Bowie dies on his feet instead of on his sick bed. (This clip is dubbed over.)

"The Alamo" (2004), controversial for its reinterpretation of Crockett as a fading politician and a man overshadowed by his own legend; the finale shows Crockett (Billy Bob Thornton) a bound, defiant prisoner on his knees who is executed in front of Santa Anna. The final seige is shown as a night attack. This movie is generally more sympathetic towards the Mexican army than previous interpretations.

"The Conqueror" 1956 staring John Wayne as Genghis Khan -- Nuff said.

And for my list of greatest offenders of history,


1. Braveheart (admittedly good drama though)
2. The Patriot
3. Pearl Harbor
4. U-571
5. Battle of the Bulge
6. Gladiator (great drama though)

"The Final Countdown"

The Wind and the Lion.

The Lion in Winter.

Becket.


All really good films despite the inaccuracies.

Quintessential Biggles. Never misses an opportunity to bash all Americans.


Back on topic...

Take a look at the survival characteristics for the real Titanic.

http://www.anesi.com/titanic.htm

Doesn't precisely correspond with what Cameron infers on the screen, does it? More third class woman and children survived than first class men.

Glad to see that the principle of "woman and children first" generally held up during that catastrophe.

Take a look at the behavior of the crew and passengers of the recent Italian liner which sank 250m off shore to see what culture has devolved into.

umm.. it's not an attempt to retell anything. It's a whimsical scenario of a modern carrier versus a historical task force.

Sort of like "Pearl Harbor" with its Arleigh Burke destroyers being attacked by Zeros on battleship row?

Seriously, "Final Countdown" is a true story. I saw it on TV

It is my understanding that Das Boot is completely fictional.

Yer Wha? Its called 'having a laugh', Vertigo. Ho Ho Ho. You can take the p*ss out of Blighty all you want mate, I'll laugh along with you if its good. Where are all the examples of me maliciously 'bashing' Americans? LOL! Cheer up ffs. 90% of my IL2 squadron are Yanks (a lot), we make fun of each other all the time, its just banter. If I had a penny for the amount of times I've been called a 'Limey B*stard' on TS, I'd be very rich. It doesn't make me cry, however.....and I'm still standing. Just a bit fun, sheesh.

I take the p*ss out of Oz all the time for instance, and Ajay etc never get upset...and normally fire back with something gold! (might be because they know I'm kidding, and they have a GSOH). So sensitive!

I'll try not to offend your country's honour in future. As long as you promise to spell honour properly in future. Till then, fair game. The point was Vertigo, people are ignorant worldwide (UK included) and many believe dramatisations etc to be factual. I exaggerated a bit for comic effect, its called hyperbole. I don't even know why I'm explaining this, tbh.

If I wanted to stick the boot in about 'gullibility' I would have mentioned something like....Hmmmm, I dunno, between 3.5 and 8 million (depending on source) Americans thinking they have been abducted by or had contact with Aliens. You can't tell me that isn't fecking funny. I'd better not though, as I'll be 'bashing' the US () and it might upset you. Sorry about that. *Wait a minute, I'm not....really. That was a blatant lie. *.

Some people, eh? Never mind.

Yes, the specific events are fictional but the historical setting and circumstances are accurate as far as I can tell. It's sort of like how some of scenes depicting Stonewall Jackson's personal life in "Gods & Generals" were fictionalized but the historical setting and context behind those scenes were all accurate.

300..but it was a cool movie ..men wearing jewellery ?? pffff, as if.

Lord of the rings is a pretty cool historical movie , they could have shortened it a bit though.That dude with the big beard was God yeh, coz i got that straight up. The miniature whiney girl , Frodo (eve) and Sam (adam) really showed me where i come from and how the human race was born. Im glad they never ate the apple in the end though it was close a few times.I think it reflects on how i dont really like the evil fruit that much in rl.

Biggles is orright , not 'is fault 'es a pom now is it well ? Some of us escaped on the bread ships and some got stuck. If SamAdam woulda manned up back in the past and sorted ole FrodoEve out with a ripe ole rogerin' then all of our futures woulda been diffrint yeah.Like how Bennifer won the war an all wiv that big Raygun and showed them Irish moon men how not to muck wid our deloreans.

Man i love history its awesomes!

Like U-571.

Braveheart movie > Braveheart historical records. Yeah, that's right. Better acting, better visuals, better sound, better music, better battle scenes, better everything!

It's my favorite movie of all-time, so don't diss!!!


Now back on topic....

What movies don't re-write history sans documentaries? And many of them would be too boring for the "mainstream audiences" that we so loathe if they kept to historical authenticity.

already bored with this conversation.

I'd like to add another, but it's a TV series:

The Pacific.

I have yet to see that. The consensus seems to be that people didn't like it nearly as much as Band of Brothers.

The Pacific is worth watching, but it's not 10% of the greatness that IS Band of Brothers.
In BoB you get attached to all of the characters. In The Pacific, you don't know who it's really following, and you just don't get into the characters or situations well. Good actors, just the story/writing isn't on par. A missed opportunity. I hope they do another series, following naval battles in the pacific.

I tried watchimg the pacific twice now and it has never held my interest long enough to get much past ep 3 the first time or 4 at the second attempt.Obviously BoB was more character driven whereas pacific seems more about the overall war and seriously lacking in character development.I couldnt really care less when watching what i did of pacific if any of them died , whereas in BoB i was a bit crushed everytime one of the men went down

I may struggle with it again one day as i heard it improves in the later episodes, does it ?

Don't worry, the feeling is mutual. Not sure why you have it in yer noggin that I'm maliciously 'bashing' Americans, but its so ludicrously risible and wrong that frankly I don't care. Thats your problem, not mine. I do however note the utter absence of any evidence for this, and the fact that no one else appears to think so but you. *shrugs*.

C'est la vie. You might want to take up the 'Cheerio Challenge' in the mornings though. Give it a week. Its the food of Cheerful Champions, so 'start your day the crunchy sunshine way', just like me mate, Ajay. That cereal recommendation of yours changed my life cobber, cheers. Can't thank ye enough....What a cheery Aussie chap! I was a misery guts like some here, too. Days were forlorn and filled with gloom, now there's chunks of joy in me milky spoon.

Nope. LOL
Gets worse IMO. They should have stuck with following James Badge Dale's character. He's the guy that was on 24 season 3, btw.

You are correct. The U-boat was real (U-96) but the crew is fictional. I like to think of Das Boot as historical fiction; it follows history so closely that is appears to have actually existed.

In some ways, yes; others, not so much.

Battlestar Galactica.

Since i watched it i´m trying to find out the number of my wife

I have the Bluray boxed set and the extras in it really flesh out the details in what was happening and makes it a much better series. You are right tho as it dosn't follow one particular character you don't get attached to them the same way as in BoB, the jumping around from location and time does make it a bit disjointed. I'm still glad I seen it though.

recently watched the film Passchendaele don't know how accurate it is but it was pretty gritty in places.

Current "historical" TV series I'm watching is Hell on Wheels

If she's a 3, watch out for her obsession with finding her creator, if she's an 8 watch out for her two faced nature and if she's a 6 then you really are a lucky man.

If you read the excellent book by Herbert Werner, "Iron Coffins", you'll see how real it was.
It's the real story of a real u-boat Captain who survived through the war.
http://www.warbooks.com.au/IndividualBooks/ironcoffins.html

Gettysburg. Martin Sheen is a great actor, but he was horribly cast as Lee. He makes Lee come off as a "softy" and really ISNT Lee.

While it was a smaller role, I think Robert Duvall was much better as Lee in "Gods & Generals".

Wasn't "Patton" heavily sanitized as to the good General's more politically incorrect character flaws? Such as an underlying anti-semitism, some less than clever remarks about the SS and his fundamental opposition to "communists" (which, in Patton's opinion, was a term for a pretty broad spectrum of the society)? Which, IIRC, was also the reason George C. Scott refused the Oscar for his role in the movie.

The film did portray Patton's distaste for the Russians on several occassions as well as him having some disagreements with the official post-war "De-Nazification" policy.

Where did you read that he was an anti-semite? That's news to me. American society (as well as Europe) in the 1930's and 1940's had a lot of prejudice towards Jews so if Patton did harbor the same types of prejudice then it was no more than what was typical for the times.

Patton lost his job as 3rd Army CO when, after the war, he was put in charge of some DP camps in southern Germany and made pretty harsh and insulting remarks to jewish survivors of KZs. Already before (in North Africa) he had a few more hiccups because of jewish officers and comments he made but those were glossed over.

I don't think Patton's attitude towards Jews came from a ideological closeness to the Nazis but because of his considerable devotion to his christian religion (which, in various ways, had spread anti-semitism for over a milennium before a certain Austrian was even born).

http://voices.yahoo.com/the-dark-side-george-s-patton-666204.html

I think the film succeeded in portraying a Patton that was neither a likeable person but also not the greatest evil on Earth. I would disagree with any notion that the film was a whitewash.

Simply put George C. Scott refused an Oscar for his performance as Patton so I guess there's a little bit of truth in it. I suggest not to let this dissolve into an argument over virtually nothing, okay?

I'm simply debating, not arguing.

I will say though that the reason Scott refused the Oscar was not because of any historical inaccuracy with the film but because he had philosophical problems with the Oscar ceremony/awards show in general.

Here from Wikipedia,

"Scott refused the Oscar nomination for Patton, just as he had done for his 1962 nomination for The Hustler.[6]

In a letter to the Motion Picture Academy he stated that he didn't feel himself to be in competition with other actors. However, regarding this second rejection of the Academy Award, Scott famously said elsewhere, "The whole thing is a goddamn meat parade. I don't want any part of it."

George C. Scott was great. Another one of my favorite actors.

And despite the hubbub about Patton himself.. and realizing that it's Hollywood after all, it's still a good flick. Nor did I ever think it glorified Patton in any way. The man had substantial faults, there's no doubt and if you've ever read "Crusade in Europe" by DDE, you'd know that Eisenhower realized his weaknesses as well. But he was first and formost a fighting military commander and there's no doubt he got the job done.