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VR for BMS?

Posted By: Sleepdoc

VR for BMS? - 06/02/19 08:33 PM

I decided that the BMS community leaders deserved a better title than RIP Falcon. That was just a bit of old fashioned trolling for fun.

See the new title of that post....

But in all seriousness, it would appear that the resources applied to Falcon BMS are pretty significant and pretty talented.

Has it ever been considered to bring Falcon into VR? it may be a tall order. but it seems BMS is all about Tall orders.

Regards,

Sleepdoc
Posted By: DBond

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/03/19 04:16 PM

I'd imagine it has been considered, but isn't it a DX9 issue? Need DX11 for VR? Not a VR player myself, but that was my understanding.

I think you can get BMS to display in VR, but with no 3D and poor image quality, so a no go.
Posted By: theOden

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/03/19 04:39 PM

But.. how am I to see my beer when in VR?
No, nope, nein, I'll stay with my TIR5 (choice also matches my old age and bitterness, don't bring me any future stuff)

Stoppa bron ,stoppa den!
Posted By: DBond

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/03/19 04:46 PM

The Mark Eight Four Crew don't do VR biggrin
Posted By: theOden

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/03/19 05:31 PM

Haha true, and we were pretty successful flipping those all around us over Balkans

smile

Attached picture 4mk84.png
Posted By: DBond

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/03/19 06:35 PM

That's the loadout!

But who's the dude in the back? Looks like he has VR.
Posted By: theOden

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/03/19 07:16 PM

He does!
So all the beer stayed with me in front seat.
Posted By: IHawk

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/04/19 05:25 PM

Sure VR had been discussed for future implementation.
However, out of what I've heard, current sets of VR aren't yet high resolution enough for displaying ALL needed info of the F-16 cockpit. It's nice that DCS are using VR, but do you really see everything clear with it? I mean stuff like A-G radar (Oh wait, DCS don't have :p), TGP, Mavericks, etc?

Posted By: DBond

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/05/19 06:32 PM

Welcome I-Hawk, good to see you over here.

Doesn't matter if DCS has ground radar or not as all of the screenshots are external views biggrin
Posted By: IHawk

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/05/19 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by DBond
Welcome I-Hawk, good to see you over here.


Cheers! smile

Seems like I'm more or less 20 years late :p

Quote

Doesn't matter if DCS has ground radar or not as all of the screenshots are external views biggrin


LOL biggrin
Posted By: DBond

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/06/19 06:39 PM

Quote


Seems like I'm more or less 20 years late :p





Well SimHQ hasn't changed (at all) in 20 years so whats the difference? biggrin

Posted By: IHawk

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/07/19 08:02 AM

biggrin
Posted By: MigBuster

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/07/19 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by IHawk
Sure VR had been discussed for future implementation.
However, out of what I've heard, current sets of VR aren't yet high resolution enough for displaying ALL needed info of the F-16 cockpit. It's nice that DCS are using VR, but do you really see everything clear with it? I mean stuff like A-G radar (Oh wait, DCS don't have :p), TGP, Mavericks, etc?



I can only comment on the Rift S that I have which might not be representative of others coming out like the HP Reverb that have higher res lenses.

Resolution and quality seems to be a step up from the Rift CV but not by much - still 100 miles away from a 1080 monitor if that is what you are used to.

The Field of View is not much different to track IR - is also a lot easier to look around with TiR.

Can I use Mavericks etc - well yes in the A-10C for example - i do need to lean right in and strain to read the small writing but can be done.

Differences are that the headset renders everything as 3D and expect most never bothered with 3D monitors - so the cockpit switches and panels stick out...however the A-10C might need to be redone because it looks a bit like a cardboard cutout in places.

The sense of scale is different regarding objects around you - oh and you need to take it very slow at first to allow your body to get used to it without feeling sick.

I got a Rift over others due to internal 6DOF tracking and passthrough. Passthrough is experimental but allows you to switch in game and to look through the cameras at the outside world - currently all you see is a blurry black and white mess so it might stop you falling down the stairs but not good for much else.


Other than that - the included sound is poor so am just using my headphones.

I can get 40fps on the lowish VR settings in DCS - this is itself scaling to half refresh rate basically because I don't have the power ( native is 80hz) - I have plugged both the DisplayPort and USB 3 into my RTX 2080 (have used USB A to USB C adapter)



I would not recommend Rift S for flight sims for anybody now but the potential is still there to be great - maybe Rift 4 with an RTX 4080ti

I would say it needs

Clarity to match at least a 1080 monitor.
much larger FOV
Internal Handtracking so you can interact with the pit (that others are developing now)
A better passthrough view so I make things out.

I have pulled the foam scuba mask bit off the lenses for now so I can at least see the real world and orient myself if I lose the mouse - this also lets air to the lenses to stop them steaming up.

Also for Falcon 4 there is the matter of getting documentation into VR so you can see it - so can do this via WDP quite easily but a click area could be added to enable/disable the pilots legs and board I guess.
Posted By: Bard

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/07/19 02:41 PM

I was just thinking about this.

The advantage of Falcon4BMS over newer sims is that the graphical processing could be supersampled without crippling it, making the visuals excellent even in the current generation of VR displays. That would allow the game engine to render as is, with the VR software itself upscaling.

Falcon4BMS and IL2 Sturmovik 1946 would be excellent candidates for porting to VR.
Posted By: IHawk

Re: VR for BMS? - 06/10/19 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by MigBuster

I can only comment on the Rift S that I have which might not be representative of others coming out like the HP Reverb that have higher res lenses.

Resolution and quality seems to be a step up from the Rift CV but not by much - still 100 miles away from a 1080 monitor if that is what you are used to.

The Field of View is not much different to track IR - is also a lot easier to look around with TiR.

Can I use Mavericks etc - well yes in the A-10C for example - i do need to lean right in and strain to read the small writing but can be done.

Differences are that the headset renders everything as 3D and expect most never bothered with 3D monitors - so the cockpit switches and panels stick out...however the A-10C might need to be redone because it looks a bit like a cardboard cutout in places.

The sense of scale is different regarding objects around you - oh and you need to take it very slow at first to allow your body to get used to it without feeling sick.

I got a Rift over others due to internal 6DOF tracking and passthrough. Passthrough is experimental but allows you to switch in game and to look through the cameras at the outside world - currently all you see is a blurry black and white mess so it might stop you falling down the stairs but not good for much else.


Other than that - the included sound is poor so am just using my headphones.

I can get 40fps on the lowish VR settings in DCS - this is itself scaling to half refresh rate basically because I don't have the power ( native is 80hz) - I have plugged both the DisplayPort and USB 3 into my RTX 2080 (have used USB A to USB C adapter)



I would not recommend Rift S for flight sims for anybody now but the potential is still there to be great - maybe Rift 4 with an RTX 4080ti

I would say it needs

Clarity to match at least a 1080 monitor.
much larger FOV
Internal Handtracking so you can interact with the pit (that others are developing now)
A better passthrough view so I make things out.

I have pulled the foam scuba mask bit off the lenses for now so I can at least see the real world and orient myself if I lose the mouse - this also lets air to the lenses to stop them steaming up.

Also for Falcon 4 there is the matter of getting documentation into VR so you can see it - so can do this via WDP quite easily but a click area could be added to enable/disable the pilots legs and board I guess.



Thanx for the info!

So my feeling is that current GPUs, even monsters like the RTX-2080 won't practically be enough for a full VR experience with the highres needed for reading all details in the cockpit. Interesting.

Originally Posted by Bard
I was just thinking about this.

The advantage of Falcon4BMS over newer sims is that the graphical processing could be supersampled without crippling it, making the visuals excellent even in the current generation of VR displays. That would allow the game engine to render as is, with the VR software itself upscaling.

Falcon4BMS and IL2 Sturmovik 1946 would be excellent candidates for porting to VR.


Yea but problem is that for VR you anyway need to make a graphics API upgrade, and assuming that is done, more features may be developed with it, so overall it won't be anymore the "simple GFX" kind of sim that it is now.
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