RNAS 1 Sopwith Camel (Bentley) Skins

My squadron has recently acquired Sopwith Camels (Bentley) to update the old good Tripes but I have noticed that all the aces within the unit now fly with the same standard RNAS 1 1917 skin. I checked the Skins folder and found several options but none are selected by the campaign. Is this a glitch?

What day/month did the squadron switch aircraft?

No "ace" skins are available for the Bentley Camels in QC either:

November 10, 1917.

Ok, after further investigation, I have noticed that Bentley Camels have no custom skins at all. RNAS 1 aces have lots of historical skins for "normal/standard" Camels in the proper period but are not used by the campaign.

Interesting.
The Bentley’s were a fairly recent addition. Obviously an oversight.
Never had a “late war” RNAS career yet - love the Bentley though - checked and I don’t think the RFC/RAF ever used it.
Time for a patch!

Thing is, Bentleys have a different engine fairing and textures compared to standard Camels. So, even if we have dozens of Camel skins for all RNAS squadrons they would not fit.

Just had a flash but.
Looks like there are no Bentley specific skins but, if there were, could they not be assigned to the Historical Aces via the Aces.txt?
Do the standard Camel skins work on the Bentley model at all? Maybe with some text editing and skin renaming...

Here is a comparison between a standard (Clerget) and a Bentley Camel engine fairing textures.

Clerget:



Bentley:



So, sadly all of these textures (and many more) are not used in campaign:



These are the only skins available for all Bentley equipped RNAS squadrons in the campaign:

Aris;

I would say the skins are the same for both models so it would be possible to modify/create new Bentley skins for WOFF IMHO. Have you tried it?

I have edited the screenshots above so that you can see the difference between both models.

Side by side comparison:

Ok just to make sure I am totally clear.
The Bentley skins ARE available in the Skin folder but they are not being called up/for/assigned by the Campaign Engine?

EDIT: If the files are there and just not being used I wonder if it’s a simple naming issue for the Skin. The files in the Aircraft/Squadron folders are calling for the right skin but with the wrong name or vice verse. Had that issue once. Had to make some simple text changes to make the skin name match the name being used in the aircraft files.

Aris;

I took one of my custome Camel skins, renamed it, and flew it in QC as a Bentley model and it worked fine.

Here is a link to my dropbox where I have a skin you can try.

click to download

I haven't tried it in campaign but it should work.

Let me know how it goes for you

There is not a single Bentley skin available for the RNAS aces. There are more than 200 skins for the Clerget RNAS Camels but very few are used since RNAS mostly equipped Bentley engines.

Okay I got you. I’ll have to fire up my computer to really look.
So the “XXXX_RNAS _1_1918 Ace Joe Smith” (just a made up example) is a Clerget skin?

Yes.

Well then that is now an official “big deal” with no skins.

I just renamed my custom skin to "Off_camel_Bentley_Ace_t_RNAS-1 1918_September_William G 'Will'_Barker". I then created a pilot in RNAS-1 in March 1918 and then selected my custom skin in campaign mode and it worked fine.

So you should be able to create custom Bentley skins from your Camel skins. As you noted in your screen caps above, my Bentley skin was properly rendered as a Bentley. I don't know how this happens but it works for me.

Give it a try.

My guess is that before Bentley Camel was introduced in WOFF all RNAS squadrons used Clerget Camels and mostly every squad had dozens of custom skins. After updating the sim with the Bentley variant, the skins are still there but are not longer valid. Sadly, RNAS Camels have a single generic skin per squadron now.



When you say "worked fine" you mean it fits without glitches in the engine fairing?

Yes it takes the proper fairing shape representing a Bentley. Try it and you will see for yourself. Download the skin I provided and rename as I indicated.

Aris;

I have to go out for a couple of hours but I will check the forum whenever I have internet.

Ok, this is odd, I did as you said and ...



The texture stretches and distorts to adapt to the new 3d model...

A correct, not renamed (Bentley specific) skin doesn´t distort or stretch that way in the engine fairing.

Looks like a pretty clear model/texture glitch to me on the “hump” (gun fairing/enclosure) where the Camel earns its name when using a Clerget skin on a Bentley model. From a distance it’s probably barely noticed but wonder about the cockpit view?

EDIT: Updated Aris pics - yes an issue. How’s it look from the cockpit?

Aris it looks as it should be IMHO.

Think so?
Looks pretty clear to me.

Well, then, I agree to disagree.

I opened Photoshop and copied and edited the Bentley Camel engine fairing texture and put it into the Clerget/standard "William Barker" texture so that it fit properly...Check how it looks now. (even the stock WOFF textures for the Bentley do not properly depict the correct shape of the rounded C-shaped cowling at the top)





If we want to have ace skins for Bentley Camel squadrons, there is no easy fix I am afraid.

Except OBD but they are hip-deep in WOTR. Fixing what you found sounds like a big undertaking and, in hindsight, such an obvious oversight I sometimes wonder if we are missing something.

the WOFF named Bentley skins are working as designed for you ?

If that is the case, the fix is to build some new ace skins and upload them. We will have to see if Sandbagger is interested

Aris, I stand corrected. You are correct and I went into the Camel skin for Barker and transferred the engine shroud from a Bentley skin to the Camel skin and it worked fine and looks just as you indicated it should.

That said, it would be possible to replicate all the camel skins as Bentley skins with a little art touch-up, but which of the stock skins should historically be updated is the big question.

In the long run we need to know just what squadrons/pilots should have Bentleys and what the skins should look like in order to undertake an effort to fill in the gap for the missing skins.

We know exactly who flew what a/c and when. Hopefully Sandbagger will see this, and be interested in taking it on
Cheers
Shredwarf

Shredwarf?
Who’s Shredwarf?

A hamfisted and club fingered lurker of ill repute

or a tattered Klingon

Shredder, if I can be of any help I am willing to put some time into aiding in the process.

You da man Robert!

Hi all,
Currently there are 376 Camel skins, including a few 'Bentley' skins.
If ArisFuser has tweaked things, such that the correct shape texture file works on the 3D model of the aircraft, without the need for OBD to have to modify any 3D model, then I guess it can be done.
It really depends on what needs to be done and to how many skins to achieve the effect you are after.

If all skins need adjusting it would be a long job, but not as long as it took me to create all of the current 376 skins.

Maybe if interested parties submit what's needed to 'Shredward' then he can act as the single conduit to me to get the skins sorted and knowing Ted, they'll be 'additional' skins included.

If OBD can't assist with this initially in creating an update, I guess I could host the skins on the 'User Mods Pages' until they can. Maybe Rob could create a download package or packages using JSGME.

Standing by,

Mike

Getting excited here. I feel it coming together.

I do recall that when OFF and WOFF were released, OBD had the problem of the overall size of the sim, especially with the sheer amount of skins created. It was a toss up between adding skins against size and cost. I believe quite a few skins created were never included in the releases.
Hence the Bentley powered Camels could only have stock squadron skins.

Also bear in mind that although skins may be amended and Shredward could update the squad aircraft data files etc, it would take an official patch release from OBD to fully incorporate the changes into WOFF.
Until then I suspect you would only be able to use the skins as 'swop outs' for existing skins or as custom skins. Full integration into campaign mode I think would need a patch.

Sandbagger

I have the necessary bmp image of the engine cover representing the Bently hump. I have tested it on a camel skin and it fits nicely. The wood parts would need to be toned to match the different skins.

I am wondering if any of the existing camel skins can be converted for ace pilots and save having to repaint the whole skins.

Keep me in the loop or PM me

Best Regards

Can be done.
Grafting the Bentley front end onto an existing Clerget Camel doesn't work, as WOFF will use the 3D model and skin rendering for the Clerget.
Using an existing Clerget skin named as a Bentley skin results in the corrupted Clerget cowl, as seen in the previous screen shot.

The best way is to graft Clerget skin colour schemes and ace individual marking onto an existing Bentley skin, then renaming that skin as your Bentley ace.

I think you misunderstand me. I just took the cow/engine cover section and overlayed it on the clerget camel and it seemed to worked fine. Can you see a problem with the rendered version below?:

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/usmptxaw19lp8zk/Bentley%20on%20camel%20skin.JPG?dl=0[/img]

Take note of the rectangular lines outlining the section I took from a Bentley and overlayed on the Clerget skin shown below:

[img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/7v96kylwm64gbk5/cap2.jpg?dl=0[/img]

some cleanup needs to be done to the colour and texture to make the part blend with the skin but that would be easier than a complete reskin onto a Bentley.

As long as the historical ace is already insim, and the squadron datafile shows that unit as having Bentley Camels, any new correctly named Bentley skins will show. I'll have a look at the datafiles, but I think I made provision for Bentleys in the relevant squadrons.
Cheers,
shredward

Hi all,

Ted:
If you can let me know what skins need porting over to Bentley Camels I'll give it a go.

Rob:
What threw me was the skin in your shots has extra cooling slots in the engine cowl, which I took to be corruptions of the rendered skin onto a different 3D model of the Camel. I agree your way of cutting the Bentley 'hump' and grafting it onto a Clerget skin would doubtless work.
That said, my way although longer, negates the problem of matching wood tones.
Which ever method is used the skins should be able to be sorted.

I'll wait to hear from Ted as to which skins need changing to Bentley Camels.

Ha Ha Mike;

Yes those extra slots were my doing in order to replicate the custom cowl that Barker had on his Camel in RAF 139 Sqn.

I think either way for works, but at the same time matching wood will still be a requirement because many of the Camel skins have different wood tones that won't necessarily match the wood tones in the Bentley skins.

I have already edited six RNAS 1 ace skins with appropriate wood skin, markings and cowlings and they all work great in campaign. I have a working Photoshop Template will all Bentley needed corrections (including color variations). PM if you want to check it.

Hi all,
Shredward is back home tomorrow and will be looking into what Bentley skins are required

ArisFuser:
I use Paint Shop Pro, but I'd be interested in your PhotoShop template,

Mike.

Sopwith Camel Bentley Photoshop Template

Whew. You guys ain’t messing around.

Got the template - thanks.

Strike while the iron's hot !!

Huzzah!

Don't feel bad Shredwarf. There are plenty of imposters around.

Could have sworn I just bought an album by the reggae artist, Rib Wiggins

Story of my life...

What did Shakespeare say..."A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

Heh Heh - corrected by 'Sandbugger'

Mike, if it works for you and I think this might be a good way to go with all new/edited skins... Let's make a revision skin pack. Take my Albatros OAW D.III skins and add them to whatever package of Bentley skins you come up with. This way users can get the full effect of an updated assortment of skins, rather than picking and choosing each plane from a list. I think doing it this way would also give us (skinners) an opportunity to add more content in the future as well as edit some of our own mistakes/revisions when we need to all in one package.

What are your thoughts?

best,

James
'OvS'

Hi all,
With help from 'Shredward' (research) the Sopwith Camels for RNAS No.1 Squadron have been converted to the Bentley engine version (apart from one Clerget engine skin - pilot Sykes - intentional).



Now uploaded to the 'User Mods Page' (OBD Aircraft Skins).
Download size just over 30Meg - manual install so check the README file.

Mike

Hi James,
Good to hear from you.
I see your point and it would make sense. However a combination of revised.new skin packs would make for very large download files, which could compromise my hosting service.
OBD have more capacity to do this, as they did with your Alb skin pack. Also the skins need to be configured in WOFF to be usable, to avoid having to manually select in QC.
Ted has said that WOFF was set up to show the Bentley skins, but at the time we couldn't create ace skins, only squad stock skins.
I'm only doing these skins so that the guys can fly them now, rather than wait for a possible OBD official WOFF patch release.
Hopefully they could scoop these skins up then.

Mike

Great strides made gentlemen

Hi all,
Sopwith Camels for RNAS No.3 Squadron have been converted to the Bentley engine version (apart from one Clerget engine skin - pilot 1918 Britnell - intentional).



Now uploaded to the 'User Mods Page' (OBD Aircraft Skins).
Download size nearly 38Meg - manual install so check the README file.

Mike

Sweet. Just got the first and now another.
Kinda like a WW1 geeks Christmas.

Hi all,
Sorry but I had to temporarily pull the two downloads for an hour or so (1600 hours GMT) as I didn't spot an anomaly with the upper wing - aileron inspection windows.

Both downloads have been corrected and are back on the download site.

Mike

Thanks. Shall delete the old and get the new.

Hi all,
Sopwith Camels for RNAS No.4 Squadron have been converted to the Bentley engine version (apart from 7 Clerget engine skins - intentional).



Now uploaded to the 'User Mods Page' (OBD Aircraft Skins).
Download size just over 32Meg - manual install so check the README file.

Mike

Whoop!

Hi all,
Sopwith Camels for RNAS No.8 Squadron have been converted to the Bentley engine version (only 6 Bentley Camels for 1917 - intentional).



Now uploaded to the 'User Mods Page' (OBD Aircraft Skins).
Download size just over 53Meg - manual install so check the README file.

NOTE 1: No.8 RNAS destroyed all of their Bentley Camels before their airfield was overrun during the 1918 Spring offensive. Their Camels were replaced with Clerget engined aircraft. The 1918 Camels for this Squadron are non-Bentley Camels.
NOTE 2: To ensure the correct aircraft are loaded, all of the RNAS No.8 Camels are included in the download, hence its size.

Mike

Can’t change aircraft within a calendar year?
Plenty of units change their aircraft types or am I misunderstanding you?

The 1917 skins change over to 1918 skins on April 1 (hopefully)
Cheers,
shredward

My mistake - post edited

Mike

Hi all,
With help from 'Shredward' (research) some of the Sopwith Camels for RNAS No.10 Squadron have been converted to the Bentley engine version.



Now uploaded to the 'User Mods Page' (OBD Aircraft Skins).
Download size just over 60Meg - manual install so check the README file.

Mike

I can make this a self extracting JSGME installable mod tonight.

Hi All,
Looks like there may be a glitch with the cowls for Naval 10. Please don't download - Sandbagger will look at it, mod if needed, and reupload when he gets back after the weekend.
Cheers,
shredward

Whew. Glad I scrolled down to the end of the thread before I dashed off to get the latest.

Hi all,
The original download for RNAS No.10 has been replaced as there was one skin that was incorrect.
I have supplied a single skin zip on the download page. If you have already downloaded the original complete zip, just download the single skin zip on the page and replace that skin.

Mike

PS: Thanks to Shredward for putting the brakes on.

Hey all,
Be nice to see some screenies of these beauties in action !
Cheers,
shredward

It would indeed says the pilots of 60 Squadron.
Let’s get a’moving Camel jocks.

Hi all,
With help from 'Shredward' (research) some of the Sopwith Camels for RNAS No.9 Squadron have been converted to the Bentley engine version.



Now uploaded to the 'User Mods Page' (OBD Aircraft Skins).
Download size just over 36Meg - manual install so check the README file.

Mike

You are a machine! Thank you, Sandbagger and Shredward.

Hi all,
One skin in RNAS 9 had a flaw, which has now been corrected in the download.
I've posted that skin separately so you can replace it rather than download the whole RNAS 9 zip again.

Mike

And the Bentleys for RNAS 13 are up. And a drink and supper at the Barmy Bar are in order for Sandbagger.
Bwoc Bwoc Bwoc.

shredward

Indeed sir. A big drink. Or maybe three!

Hi all,
With help from 'Shredward' (research) some of the Sopwith Camels for RNAS No.13 Squadron have been converted to the Bentley engine version.



Now uploaded to the 'User Mods Page' (OBD Aircraft Skins).
Download size just over 32Meg - manual install so check the README file.

Mike

Hi all,
A big thanks to 'Shredward' - the aircraft flown in OFF and WOFF were researched by him, using his vast knowledge and resources, before full details of each was passed onto the various OBD skinners.

Very pleased to see so many new skins for the Camels gents' - have now checked the xfm files for the Camels and we have a Clerget and Bentley modified one, but no early Camel (Le Rhone 110hp). Will look into including an xfm file for that one for a ver. 3.0 of my FM tweaks...top speed on that one should be about 180kph...will also look into tinkering a bit with the Clerget and Bentley variants (aileron sensitivity, rudder, etc., climb rate, and max-g limits...around 4.8 now but might be historically realistic to increase those into the 5.0 to 5.2 range for the Camels). Great stuff and keep it coming.

Von S

Got all downloaded (and re-downloaded in some cases) and was scrolling thru them - did I mention eyeballing WOFF skins is a “hobby” of mine - when I came across the RNAS-9 1917 skin of Roy Brown.
That face on the stabilizer is for real? Hehe. Guess I never seen a full plane pic of Browns aircraft.

Sure is. It is the face of famous British music hall comedian George Robey. He was on the fin of several Naval 9 Camels.
Bwoc Bwoc Bwoc !!!

shredward

Roy Brown never struck me as a man of barmy humor - obviously I don’t know the man as well as I thought!
BWOC!

Thanks Shred for your continued work on these incredible skins ..beautiful work

Thanks to Sandbagger, and Stachel, and Makai, and Paarma.
I'm just the librarian.
Cheers,
shredward

Looks almost scary!
Do you know how it was done? Look too life-like to be painted on. Perhap a photo or partial poster shellacked on?

Probably as you suggested, a poster varnished onto te fin.
Others did similar, such as James Meinsner's Nieuport 28 of the 27th Aero Squadron - with war bond posters on the wing (and not much fabric on the upper wing).

Funny you should bring this picture up in that, when I see it, I am always closely looking at the upper wing.
While aware of the assorted “real life skin mods” I never noticed it here.
Man, what an interesting period of history all around.