Friday 17 update from Blacksix.

Posted by: Bokononist

Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 08:20 AM

This news in from the 1c forum, looks good to me.
Friday Update, February 17, 2012
Hello everyone,
First of all, let’s talk about the upcoming patch.
We haven’t talked about our flight model for some time. We haven’t been idle
however. Not only are we fine-tuning plane performance, we’re making some
very deep changes to the underlying core of our physics code.
We are completely rewriting collision and landing gear, while also making other
elements of the flight model more complete and precise. Control surface
behavior and reaction has been significantly improved. Refined transverse
velocity calculations in relation to aircraft performance. Made it possible to
calculate different transverse velocity at different points along the wing.
Improved pylon and loadout FM calculations. Added many new features to allow
FM calculation needed in future sequels. Many of these changes have also
entailed completely rewriting existing code.
And this is by no means a complete list!
Graphics-wise, we’re dealing with a last-minute issue as we speak. We rather
unexpectedly found a problem with our aircraft decals, i.e. the code that places
crosses and roundels and chevrons etc on top of the aircraft paintscheme. The
code is being rewritten, the work should be finished in about 2 days. Once it’s
done we can take much more accurate benchmarks. We’ll post then when we
have them.
And now let’s talk about new stuff.
We’re continuing to introduce you to aircraft from our upcoming sequel. This is
once again the Ju-88A-4 shown last week; this time it’s wearing summer camo
and is flying in front of a WIP, oh dear God so very WIP, fall landscape.
Finally, we’re showing the second part of our three-part video preview of the
new ground features in our simulation.
Watch it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC29KL_wSBo
Please do keep in mind that this is still work in progress, and many of the
components shown are not yet final. If you look closely, you may even notice
some improvements between last week’s video and this one.
Most importantly, please keep in mind that this is a preview, the feature is
actively being worked on, and at this time we do not know ourselves when and in
which shape it will make it into the game.
Tune in next week for the final part of the preview. It will focus on the vehicle
type briefly shown at the end of this video.
See you next Friday!
Posted by: Aces High 2

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 09:04 AM

"the work should be finished in about 2 days."

Before anyone else says it, I think he means twoweeks biggrin

Regards

Aces
Posted by: Slingn

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 09:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Aces High 2
"the work should be finished in about 2 days."

Before anyone else says it, I think he means twoweeks biggrin

Regards

Aces


lol, Of course he did, it was Obviously just a translation issue.

Posted by: Bokononist

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 10:01 AM

I really hope that the new graphics scale properly with SLI, my setup benches and performs the same as a 580 in any other game or benchmark, just not the one I really want it too! Heres hoping.
Posted by: NattyIced

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 10:03 AM

Wow, the tires of the vehicles actually grip the terrain and caused the car to flip over.

I hope it's reflected the same with the aircraft's landing gear.
Posted by: Bokononist

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 10:10 AM

Blacksix did say that they are remoddling the landing gear so my guess would be yes. Maybe we'll even get the groundloops that some people have been eagerly awaiting since day one. exitstageleft
Posted by: theOden

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 10:20 AM

Quote:
we’re dealing with a last-minute issue as we speak

Quote:
We are completely rewriting


Seriously..
Posted by: NattyIced

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 10:29 AM

Graphics and physics are two different modules.
Posted by: bisher

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 10:30 AM

No, haven't you heard the joke where the code that attaches aircraft decals walks into a bar........
Posted by: NattyIced

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 10:33 AM

It forgot to duck?
Posted by: bisher

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 10:37 AM

he he biggrin
Posted by: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 11:14 AM

For those that haven't seen them:

Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3
Pic 4
Pic 5



Edit: Image tags don't work here?

Posted by: Biggles07

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 11:27 AM

Coming in next weeks 'Sim installment', the revolutionary IL2-Sturmovik....'CRY HAVOC....THE DOGS OF WAR'!!!






Cutting edge canine combat simulation from our newly developed 'Kanine-Dynamix' engine allows you to control packs of Soviet Suicide bomb dogs, minesweepers, attack-sentry and detection roles and more...with complex pack behaviour AI!!!! The much feared Doberman Pinscher MkIV free with every purchase!!!!


Thrill to unsurpassed and unparalleled levels of DOG COMBAT REALISM and unit micro management....in your favourite Flight Sim (flight sim?.....it is a flight sim, right?) Blah blah effin blah.

FFS, wow....Jeeps. Tanks. Just fix the fecking performance data for what we have in CloD, correct ceilings and systems errors etc amongst a truckload of other things, release the SDK and let the modders do the rest. I'm not actually opposed to it, some may like it and that's great.....but I couldn't give a monkeys myself. I could play ARMA or something or *insert tank sim here* if I wanted all this bollocks.

Any flight sim fans here, or am I in the wrong forum?

Bah.

(hahaha) What a carry on.
Posted by: bisher

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 11:32 AM

So is this a temper tantrum Biggles? Kinda embarrassing to watch.
Posted by: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 11:34 AM

You should be used to it by now bisher.
Posted by: Biggles07

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 11:39 AM

[moderator edit - not acceptable guys]
Posted by: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 11:46 AM

lol he's really upset now.
Posted by: Biggles07

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 11:49 AM

Originally Posted By: ATAG_Bliss
lol he's really upset now.


'lol'....No, he's not.

hahaha
Posted by: HeinKill

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 11:56 AM

On the plus side: FM and gfx fixes (hopfully)

Neutral: another Ju88. Is anyone flying the one we have? Oh well, at least it's free.

Groan: A thousand posts asking 1C to fix the AI, and they have been spending their time, money and energy on vehicles and AAA. Yes, I know, the vehicles and AAA guy doesn't do AI. So - get - someone - who - does.

H
Posted by: theOden

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 12:14 PM

Originally Posted By: HeinKill
Groan: A thousand posts asking 1C to fix the AI..

Ever since the Banjo Tube it's been pretty obvious they dont really care what the customers say/wish.
"They know better because someone else, a true programmer not employed anymore, in their company built il2-46 and that was awesome"-style.
Posted by: bisher

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 12:15 PM

funny
Posted by: cheesehawk

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 12:19 PM

I think that just the decals' ETA is 2 days. Who knows about the rest of it. Anyone else have the feeling that hardware and software developments have passed their programmers by?
Posted by: bisher

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 12:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Biggles07
If you want to play funny buggers, then I can do that too..


Ya your first joke went over so well, I can't wait for your next little gem.
Posted by: Biggles07

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 12:27 PM

Ooooh! Miaow! biggrin

Go and have a lie down Bish....Canuck lectures on sobriety not required thanks*, been there on my travels. biggrin

*BBC Breaking news* Canadian Man found grievously wounded by a joke about his favourite flight sim is said to be in 'stable, but critical condition'

Bish.....It was a joke. Cheer up.

You started with the hostile tone. I'm trying to keep it light.

Never mind, eh?

Carry on.

*'try to post sober next time Biggles' Thanks for removing Bish, it was a bit silly.

biggrin



Posted by: bisher

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 12:33 PM

[moderator edit - not acceptable guys]
Posted by: Biggles07

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 12:40 PM

[moderator edit - not acceptable guys]
Posted by: Pooch

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 12:43 PM

I would love to have seen a cannon armed Spitfire mentioned....but, alas..(SIGH).
Posted by: Vitesse

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 12:48 PM

Looks like they're building some sort of MMO ground/air combat sim. WOT with WOP stylee.
Posted by: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 01:08 PM

@bisher - just come to our forums. We actually discuss the game there.
Posted by: Bokononist

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 01:17 PM

I don't think that this is intended to be a tank/vehicle sim in the way some are thinking. Whereas something like ARMA tries to cover all bases equally, I think the idea behind this is to provide a greater sense of immersion in a flight sim than would be possible without drivable vehicles and the like. Maybe I'm wrong but thats my take on it.
I just had a thought though, imagine a campaign where you've wrecked too many spits so you get demoted to driving a staff car for the rest of the war, hmmm, I've just decided I don't want that level of immersion....
Posted by: Xander Fulton

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 01:30 PM

Is it just me, or does the ground details on this look better than 'Red Orchestra'?

That's...pretty cool.

Not sure how useful it is, but...it's definitely pretty cool. I wouldn't mind hopping in a WW2-era vehicle and driving around a few hundred miles of realistically (period) roads and buildings and such every now and then when I don't feel like hauling out all my flight gear...
Posted by: ohmie

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 01:46 PM

Boko I've seen you fly your not that bad,anyway where have you been not seen you online lately?

Ohmie
Posted by: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 02:05 PM

Ok the news about the FMs is a good start but the rest is again the same old stuff.
The drivable vehicles??? jeez you couldn't make it up.
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 02:16 PM

Like I said in the IC forum.

"I haven't read all of the thread, but this could be very good for all of us. Someone should post this video in the tank sim forums, if it hasn't been already. This could have many of the the tankers investing in the sim now.

I realize the angst some have of these features watering down a combat flight sim, but I doubt over the long haul this will be the case. The new series is primarily a combat flight sim made by combat flight sim enthusiasts, these features will only draw in money from other genres, that will help finance the sim over a very long haul. The added monies will allow for new features primarily aircombat in nature, and even ships that are sorely needed. The longer this sim stays in development the closer we are to the SDK."

Like someone said in the IC forums and here, the ground portion of the sim will be mostly arcade while the aircombat primarily simulation. It will make for a much more immersive world viewed from the seat of an aircraft.
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Xander Fulton
Is it just me, or does the ground details on this look better than 'Red Orchestra'?

That's...pretty cool.

Not sure how useful it is, but...it's definitely pretty cool. I wouldn't mind hopping in a WW2-era vehicle and driving around a few hundred miles of realistically (period) roads and buildings and such every now and then when I don't feel like hauling out all my flight gear...


I enjoyed the original Red Orchestra, primarily the tank battles. This could draw more than a few from that genre, considering the size of the map, the constantly improving terrain, and the full mission builder, could make for some very interesting missions for tankers.
Posted by: Keithb77

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 02:23 PM

I have got to have that MG!
Hopefully drivable with my G25.... :^)
Cheers
Keith
Posted by: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 02:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Chivas
Like I said in the IC forum.

"I haven't read all of the thread, but this could be very good for all of us. Someone should post this video in the tank sim forums, if it hasn't been already. This could have many of the the tankers investing in the sim now.

I realize the angst some have of these features watering down a combat flight sim, but I doubt over the long haul this will be the case. The new series is primarily a combat flight sim made by combat flight sim enthusiasts, these features will only draw in money from other genres, that will help finance the sim over a very long haul. The added monies will allow for new features primarily aircombat in nature, and even ships that are sorely needed. The longer this sim stays in development the closer we are to the SDK."

Like someone said in the IC forums and here, the ground portion of the sim will be mostly arcade while the aircombat primarily simulation. It will make for a much more immersive world viewed from the seat of an aircraft.


Whats the point? How will they be of any use at all? how will say 10(5 on each side) people on a server covering hundreds of square miles be of any fecking use to anyone? when im up at 10 000 ft? Chivas please explain how they will used?
Posted by: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 02:43 PM

Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs


Whats the point? How will they be of any use at all? how will say 10(5 on each side) people on a server covering hundreds of square miles be of any fecking use to anyone? when im up at 10 000 ft? Chivas please explain how they will used?


Using the AAA gun will be just one option. I could see them being used quite a bit on an objective based server. We have some pretty nasty flak around objectives. I couldn't imagine how bad it would be with humans controlling them. As far as the other vehicles the possibilities are endless. You could take over an airfield, deliver supplies, have obviously another tank/armor battle with the other team. Heck, you can resupply airfields with munitions/ammo/fuel etc., in the old IL2 right now. Just imagine doing it in an all human convoy of tanks, trucks, trailers, motorcycles (lol), because if you don't make it, that airfield runs out of fuel for the planes, bombs for the bombers, or repair parts.

I think this is the most phenomenal, most immersive news for any flight sim I've ever seen. This is going to be the very foundation for the greatest combat sim of all time.
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 02:46 PM

Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Like I said in the IC forum.

"I haven't read all of the thread, but this could be very good for all of us. Someone should post this video in the tank sim forums, if it hasn't been already. This could have many of the the tankers investing in the sim now.

I realize the angst some have of these features watering down a combat flight sim, but I doubt over the long haul this will be the case. The new series is primarily a combat flight sim made by combat flight sim enthusiasts, these features will only draw in money from other genres, that will help finance the sim over a very long haul. The added monies will allow for new features primarily aircombat in nature, and even ships that are sorely needed. The longer this sim stays in development the closer we are to the SDK."

Like someone said in the IC forums and here, the ground portion of the sim will be mostly arcade while the aircombat primarily simulation. It will make for a much more immersive world viewed from the seat of an aircraft.


Whats the point? How will they be of any use at all? how will say 10(5 on each side) people on a server covering hundreds of square miles be of any fecking use to anyone? when im up at 10 000 ft? Chivas please explain how they will used?


Personally I won't be flying at 10,000ft much. I will be winning the war ground pounding, while your hiding above the clouds, padding some insignificat air stat. wink Although there nothing like shooting down a Spit for something to do on the way home from a successfull ground attack mission.
Posted by: FearlessFrog

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 03:03 PM

Until I can ride a horse, I won't consider it a fully-fledged WWII flight simulator.

Nice to see a Friday update, and keen to see a patch as per usual.
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 03:04 PM

We have enjoyed Coop Wars and other Online Wars thru the original IL-2 series and this feature will add so many immersive scenarios to these Wars. Imagine getting calls over Teamspeak where your ground counterparts are about to be overrun unless you can get your squadron in to take out the enemy tanks etc.
Posted by: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By: ATAG_Bliss
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs


Whats the point? How will they be of any use at all? how will say 10(5 on each side) people on a server covering hundreds of square miles be of any fecking use to anyone? when im up at 10 000 ft? Chivas please explain how they will used?


Using the AAA gun will be just one option. I could see them being used quite a bit on an objective based server. We have some pretty nasty flak around objectives. I couldn't imagine how bad it would be with humans controlling them. As far as the other vehicles the possibilities are endless. You could take over an airfield, deliver supplies, have obviously another tank/armor battle with the other team. Heck, you can resupply airfields with munitions/ammo/fuel etc., in the old IL2 right now. Just imagine doing it in an all human convoy of tanks, trucks, trailers, motorcycles (lol), because if you don't make it, that airfield runs out of fuel for the planes, bombs for the bombers, or repair parts.

I think this is the most phenomenal, most immersive news for any flight sim I've ever seen. This is going to be the very foundation for the greatest combat sim of all time.


Bliss, you do know about the English channel right? smile

By the way i loved this Bliss... thumbsup

"I think this is the most phenomenal, most immersive news for any flight sim I've ever seen. This is going to be the very foundation for the greatest combat sim of all time"

Ouch...got me!
Posted by: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 03:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Chivas
We have enjoyed Coop Wars and other Online Wars thru the original IL-2 series and this feature will add so many immersive scenarios to these Wars. Imagine getting calls over Teamspeak where your ground counterparts are about to be overrun unless you can get your squadron in to take out the enemy tanks etc.


Nice idea Chivas, but unless the airbases are less than 15km from the front line i cant see how it is practical. I mean who is going to drive a single tank for over a hour to take a airbase on his own?
Posted by: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 03:16 PM

Quote:
Bliss, you do know about the English channel right?


No, I never took that into consideration when I was talking about defending your own objectives, manning your own AAA guns, or supplying the front lines with much needed ammo, parts, bombs, or fuel.

Furbs, you do know that there are other maps right? You do realize they are working on other theaters of war as well?

Quote:
Nice idea Chivas, but unless the airbases are less than 15km from the front line i cant see how it is practical. I mean who is going to drive a single tank for over a hour to take a airbase on his own?


Hmm, I know I would. But I'd also have the rest of my team on coms with me. We fly hour long sorties in big heavies bombers to go take out targets all the time. 30 minutes of tank driving is nothing. Funny those that complain about a simulation, don't actually like simulating anything.

Posted by: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 03:18 PM

Bliss if the Sim that i brought was working and most of the problems fixed by now i would be just as happy about these extras as you.
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Originally Posted By: Chivas
We have enjoyed Coop Wars and other Online Wars thru the original IL-2 series and this feature will add so many immersive scenarios to these Wars. Imagine getting calls over Teamspeak where your ground counterparts are about to be overrun unless you can get your squadron in to take out the enemy tanks etc.


Nice idea Chivas, but unless the airbases are less than 15km from the front line i cant see how it is practical. I mean who is going to drive a single tank for over a hour to take a airbase on his own?


Did you see anything in my post about an Airbase, although there has been more than a few airbase attacks in WW2 history, but most of it occured elsewhere. In a Online war server or offline campaign the player would spawn relatively close to any contested area. Major battlefield or just a contested bridge. Just use your imagination. smile I think there was some major and minor actions going on around Normandy, which is on the COD map.
Posted by: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 03:22 PM

Im just grumpy chivas. tough week.
Posted by: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 03:26 PM

Furbs,

I could say that about many games. Including the one sim I've put the most money into, ROF. When it's capable of doing 1/2 the stuff that IL2COD can, I might play it again. But I've long since stopped posting on their forums asking for fixes. What I don't get is, if you don't like it, then why don't you stop posting about it?

Can I buy your copy off of you? Would that make you stop pounding your chest like a 5 year old every day on these forums? Move on if you don't like it.
Posted by: KRT_Bong

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Bokononist
I don't think that this is intended to be a tank/vehicle sim in the way some are thinking. Whereas something like ARMA tries to cover all bases equally, I think the idea behind this is to provide a greater sense of immersion in a flight sim than would be possible without drivable vehicles and the like. Maybe I'm wrong but thats my take on it.
I just had a thought though, imagine a campaign where you've wrecked too many spits so you get demoted to driving a staff car for the rest of the war, hmmm, I've just decided I don't want that level of immersion....

Now that would be funny, to be forced to take a ground unit because you've crashed/died and use it until you score xx points, personally I think being able to take over vehicles already present would be cool, not drive them all from their starting points but jump into already existing ones programmed into the mission and use until destroyed or deployed otherwise they follow predetermined waypoints.
Posted by: bisher

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 03:56 PM

lol that would be hilarious to get demoted to ground vehicles only! lol
Posted by: Gambit21

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 04:26 PM

Wow - the disk might make it out of my desk drawer and into my optical drive for an install after all.
Posted by: HerrMurf

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 05:23 PM

Actually, Furbz I am coming to your defense, even as a lover/fanboi of this sim. I generally find your comments pretty balanced if a bit repetitive. There are others far more negative and galling who i cannot abide. I hope all the features eventually get fixed and you can enjoy the game as much as some of us. I chalk today up to, as you said 'a bad day' and hope it gets better for you. Although this is a bit of a backhanded compliment it is a complement. Don't give Bliss your disk smile I'm fairly confident you will enjoy the sim down the road.
Posted by: HeinKill

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 05:33 PM

If you have spent any time on the ground watching the ground war as I have in mission building, just making some vehicles drivable will not go far, unless they have fixed ALL the bugs in vehicle movement. It doesn't help if your vehicle is moving around nicely, but all the others around you are brain dead (If you thought the aircraft AI was was a worry, you should see the guys on the ground!):

- convoys bump into each other and just stop even though there is no obstacle
- convoys meet an obstacle but the pathfinding routine is so bad they spend the next ten minutes going forward and backward in the same spot
- motorcycles with gunners are quite amusing. Shoot off the rider and the bike will keep driving itself. Shoot off the gunner and the gun will keep firing itself. Here the rider has decided to do a face plant into the fuel tank (That's what I call immersion...) but the bike keeps following the one in front of it.


- vehicles leave the road for no reason and drive through forests and then back onto the road
- vehicles do not avoid enemy fire, they have no defensive scatter routines

Given that they aren't fixing the aircraft AI, what do you think the chances are that they will fix the ground AI routines?

Of course, if you want to drive alone in a double decker bus from Dover to Buckingham Palace in a flight sim, then you'll be drooling.
Posted by: KraziKanuK

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 05:34 PM

The old Il-2 had air racing so who wants to do some vehicle racing?

We could have our very own Goodwood Festival (Westhampnett, now Chichester) with Hurricanes and Spitfires doing fly pasts while the vehicles race around the perimeter road. If the Germans decide to crash the party, the AA can open up on them. biggrin
Posted by: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 05:37 PM

Originally Posted By: HerrMurf
Actually, Furbz I am coming to your defense, even as a lover/fanboi of this sim. I generally find your comments pretty balanced if a bit repetitive. There are others far more negative and galling who i cannot abide. I hope all the features eventually get fixed and you can enjoy the game as much as some of us. I chalk today up to, as you said 'a bad day' and hope it gets better for you. Although this is a bit of a backhanded compliment it is a complement. Don't give Bliss your disk smile I'm fairly confident you will enjoy the sim down the road.


Cheers Herrmurf, the reason i keep posting is out of frustration, i want to love this sim just as much as anyone but its hard to.
The "Battle of Britain" is the air battle ive read the most about, about 20 books at the last count and it seems to me they fecked it up.
It could of been so bloody good but its not.
CLOD does not make me think of that battle at all. No sqds, no ground control, no campaigns, FMs way off, AI that is total pants.
Single player is beyond a joke and mutiplayer that is so far pretty well just air quake (ATAG doing the best they can, not their fault)

I dont know...its alomost a year since release and its still broken for most, just check the numbers online.

Just makes me sad and angry at the same time.

I just keep hoping Chivas is proved right some day.

Posted by: bisher

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 05:39 PM

Originally Posted By: HeinKill
Given that they aren't fixing the aircraft AI


They are not improving the AI? I thought they were.

Or is this a case of if they did not mention it in an update it's not being done?
Posted by: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 05:45 PM

Depends Bisher, they could mention it or not it still might not get done.

They hired a new AI guy about 5 months ago and they had a whole "community help with the AI" thread at 1C, so we will see what he has come up with.
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 06:00 PM

Everything is still a WIP and will be a WIP for the life of the series. I have on idea when everything will be working well enough to suit most people, but as long as the devs are working there is hope. The AI is by far the most difficult aspect to get right, and like Furbs said, they have a person in the development working on it. There is no way it will be perfect anytime soon no matter how many people are working on it, its just too complex.
Posted by: Gambit21

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 06:22 PM

From all my reading here, it seems getting the AI "perfect" is not the issue, but rather getting it at least
past the point of seeming brain dead for now.
Am I wrong?
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 06:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Gambit21
From all my reading here, it seems getting the AI "perfect" is not the issue, but rather getting it at least
past the point of seeming brain dead for now.
Am I wrong?


Everyone understand how bad the AI is now, I'm just saying no matter how much they fix, it will never be perfect, its just too complicated.
Posted by: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 06:34 PM


Quote:


I dont know...its alomost a year since release and its still broken for most, just check the numbers online.



Are you only comparing IL2COD to IL246 online? Because for a broken game that has hardly any numbers online (as you say) there isn't a single other sim out there besides 46 that has as many people playing it as IL2COD. We usually have more on our server than the entire ROF population. DCS barely has anyone online. Could you name some other sims with a good online population? I'd just like to know what online sims I seem to be missing.

As far as airquake. Your opinion of that differs from mine. A team, objective style server is hardly airquake to me. Sure people dogfight, but many on coms (usually well over 20 people) fly together to either attack or defend various objects. To me, airquake is airstarting 500m from your opponent and simply fighting to the death, with icons and external views on. But hey, maybe the definition of airquake has changed recently.
Posted by: Gambit21

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 06:38 PM

Originally Posted By: ATAG_Bliss

Quote:


I dont know...its alomost a year since release and its still broken for most, just check the numbers online.



Are you only comparing IL2COD to IL246 online? Because for a broken game that has hardly any numbers online (as you say) there isn't a single other sim out there besides 46 that has as many people playing it as IL2COD. We usually have more on our server than the entire ROF population. DCS barely has anyone online. Could you name some other sims with a good online population? I'd just like to know what online sims I seem to be missing.

As far as airquake. Your opinion of that differs from mine. A team, objective style server is hardly airquake to me. Sure people dogfight, but many on coms (usually well over 20 people) fly together to either attack or defend various objects. To me, airquake is airstarting 500m from your opponent and simply fighting to the death, with icons and external views on. But hey, maybe the definition of airquake has changed recently.


The definition hasn't changed - what you describe is "Air Quake" if not in theory, then it's what it normally degenerates into. I know, I used to check into WarClouds now and then, and soon realized CoOps were the only way to go.
Posted by: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 06:44 PM

Coops were always too scripted for me. Start from point A. Go to point B to shoot or bomb at w/e target is there. Last one standing = mission end. Unless something has changed for coops, that's how every single one of them I've ever played happened. Now something like SEOW is a completely different thing, but that doesn't exactly run 24/7. So because people can respawn is that why you call it airquake? Perhaps it's because they don't have to follow a scripted navpoint/route? The more dynamic the better IMO. But that's just me.
Posted by: Gambit21

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 06:46 PM

No, because it just degenerates into people spawning and going hunting - every single time IME.
CoOps you have a mission, you fly the mission, achieve/Fail at the objective, land - satisfying.
Posted by: Gambit21

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Gambit21
From all my reading here, it seems getting the AI "perfect" is not the issue, but rather getting it at least
past the point of seeming brain dead for now.
Am I wrong?


Everyone understand how bad the AI is now, I'm just saying no matter how much they fix, it will never be perfect, its just too complicated.


I see, thanks Chivas.
I think we'd just like to see some fixes, even incremental ones, ASAP.
Posted by: Avimimus

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 07:00 PM

Bisher & Biggle07: Not again - okay? I'm inclined to just edit the posts and let this one slide - but if either of you want to pursue the matter further PM me. (Bisher, you have PMs turned off so there is no way I can speak privately with both of you).
Posted by: Avimimus

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Ok the news about the FMs is a good start but the rest is again the same old stuff.
The drivable vehicles??? jeez you couldn't make it up.


Actually... Oleg mused about this in the FB days - he always wanted to head in the direction of playable armour. If one goes back further, I'd asked in 2000 if we'd be able to capture a side car and drive for the Russian side of the fronts after bailing out over enemy territory... so yes, you can make it up wink I think it is a cool way of showing off the engine and doesn't require that much extra programming for the reward. Graphics are closer to Arma (not ARMA II) but the ballistics and world size should be excellent.

I just can't believe there isn't a tide of "its too orange" posts (along the lines of "I've seen England, England is a slightly different shade of absurdly green").
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Gambit21
No, because it just degenerates into people spawning and going hunting - every single time IME.
CoOps you have a mission, you fly the mission, achieve/Fail at the objective, land - satisfying.



I flew Warclouds for years, and most players on both sides were concentrating on winning the map by taking out their objectives. Yes there were a few who's sole object was only to dogfight, but they were of realistic use to the missions as they usually had to fly over the objective areas to find air targets. So not only did you have find the targets, but avoid those flyer's covering the target areas, and once you dropped your bombs, cover the guys coming in after you. I suppose if people weren't on Comms they would have no idea what was actually going on, unless they read the briefing.

Warclouds was perfect for my situation. I could join the server 24/7 no waiting, with an ongoing objective based battle going on. With a new map loading the minute the other map was won.
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Avimimus
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Ok the news about the FMs is a good start but the rest is again the same old stuff.
The drivable vehicles??? jeez you couldn't make it up.


Actually... Oleg mused about this in the FB days - he always wanted to head in the direction of playable armour. If one goes back further, I'd asked in 2000 if we'd be able to capture a side car and drive for the Russian side of the fronts after bailing out over enemy territory... so yes, you can make it up wink I think it is a cool way of showing off the engine and doesn't require that much extra programming for the reward. Graphics are closer to Arma (not ARMA II) but the ballistics and world size should be excellent.

I just can't believe there isn't a tide of "its too orange" posts (along the lines of "I've seen England, England is a slightly different shade of absurdly green").


I agree Olegs original plan for the new game engine was to future proof the sim technically and provide player control for most systems, for a a broad range of uses. Seperating the game engine into modules has allowed them to upgrade one module without effecting the other modules. Much like they are doing with the current Graphics Engine Module.
Posted by: cheesehawk

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 07:44 PM

Bliss, how do you get your numbers for RoF? I've yet to see any published numbers for it showing there are less than 70-80 people playing it. I would be shocked if RoF really has less players than you have on your server. Realistically, although you have the most populated server out there, I think even CoD is in trouble if even half of the players that have the game and are able to play it are showing up on your server. Last I remember, you had about 2k player names (didn't give us the unique IP #s). Development is going to be on a tremendously tight budget if that's even the case.

I would say probably 75-85% of the online players have ventured to your server, but I hope that's not the entire population of the game... it would be a sad case indeed.


Originally Posted By: ATAG_Bliss

Quote:


I dont know...its alomost a year since release and its still broken for most, just check the numbers online.



Are you only comparing IL2COD to IL246 online? Because for a broken game that has hardly any numbers online (as you say) there isn't a single other sim out there besides 46 that has as many people playing it as IL2COD. We usually have more on our server than the entire ROF population. DCS barely has anyone online. Could you name some other sims with a good online population? I'd just like to know what online sims I seem to be missing.

As far as airquake. Your opinion of that differs from mine. A team, objective style server is hardly airquake to me. Sure people dogfight, but many on coms (usually well over 20 people) fly together to either attack or defend various objects. To me, airquake is airstarting 500m from your opponent and simply fighting to the death, with icons and external views on. But hey, maybe the definition of airquake has changed recently.
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By: cheesehawk
Bliss, how do you get your numbers for RoF? I've yet to see any published numbers for it showing there are less than 70-80 people playing it. I would be shocked if RoF really has less players than you have on your server. Realistically, although you have the most populated server out there, I think even CoD is in trouble if even half of the players that have the game and are able to play it are showing up on your server. Last I remember, you had about 2k player names (didn't give us the unique IP #s). Development is going to be on a tremendously tight budget if that's even the case.

I would say probably 75-85% of the online players have ventured to your server, but I hope that's not the entire population of the game... it would be a sad case indeed.


Originally Posted By: ATAG_Bliss

Quote:


I dont know...its alomost a year since release and its still broken for most, just check the numbers online.



Are you only comparing IL2COD to IL246 online? Because for a broken game that has hardly any numbers online (as you say) there isn't a single other sim out there besides 46 that has as many people playing it as IL2COD. We usually have more on our server than the entire ROF population. DCS barely has anyone online. Could you name some other sims with a good online population? I'd just like to know what online sims I seem to be missing.

As far as airquake. Your opinion of that differs from mine. A team, objective style server is hardly airquake to me. Sure people dogfight, but many on coms (usually well over 20 people) fly together to either attack or defend various objects. To me, airquake is airstarting 500m from your opponent and simply fighting to the death, with icons and external views on. But hey, maybe the definition of airquake has changed recently.


It will be impossible to have a large online COD community until the sim is optimized. The next graphic update should address this situation allowing far greater frame rates, less stutters, and much fewer CTD's, etc. Then we should see the online community grow, with more people and servers.
Posted by: ATAG_Bliss

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 08:17 PM

Originally Posted By: cheesehawk
Bliss, how do you get your numbers for RoF? I've yet to see any published numbers for it showing there are less than 70-80 people playing it. I would be shocked if RoF really has less players than you have on your server. Realistically, although you have the most populated server out there, I think even CoD is in trouble if even half of the players that have the game and are able to play it are showing up on your server. Last I remember, you had about 2k player names (didn't give us the unique IP #s). Development is going to be on a tremendously tight budget if that's even the case.

I would say probably 75-85% of the online players have ventured to your server, but I hope that's not the entire population of the game... it would be a sad case indeed.



I get my numbers from here: (the server list) http://online.riseofflight.net/ru/



Right now there's almost 30 more people playing COD than ROF. 46 on our server now (almost more than all of ROF - this on a Friday night) Again, if you want to compare it to a supposedly "up to date, fixed sim", then I'd say IL2COD isn't the one hurting in this department at all.

And the last players stats count was 4 days after the stats went live. At that point there was already over 1200 unique users. I have no idea how many have been compiled by now, but I'd say it's well over 2000.

So again, can anyone explain to me what modern sims have more players? I just have to know what justification people have to say online numbers are abysmal in this sim. What do you call online in other sims that work right then??? A complete failure?
Posted by: BKHZ_Furbs

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 09:34 PM

IL2 works perfect and has up to 700 people playing.
Posted by: FearlessFrog

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 09:39 PM

Online flight sims seem just to be a pretty small niche. A quick eyeballing (nothing scientific) for me shows about:

- 250 or so on IL-2 (not a modern sim, but the one to beat I guess)
- 60 or so on DCS-A10C / Black Shark. About 30 servers.
- 30 or so CloD
- 25 or so RoF

All these are dependent on times of day, plus number of servers up and running - Your mileage may vary etc. I don't know if MP numbers really prove much, as a good chunk must buy to play SP I guess. When CloD overtakes IL2 then that's a good healthy sign I think.

I say 'small niche' as it's surprisingly a small numbers compared to a few other game genres - it's sobering to realize how small our hobby is sometimes i.e steam stats from today (filtering out the twitchers):

- 62,000 concurrent Football Manager 5 players
- 20,000 concurrent Civ 5 players
- 6,000 Star Trek Online MMO players
- 7,300 Total War Shogun
- 1,400 Railworks players (not MP, but just playing but it's a steamworks title like CloD - peep peep)

Mothers and Fathers - don't let your sons and daughters go into flight sim software development - there's no money in it! smile
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/17/12 10:54 PM

I agree FF. Thats why only small groups of combat flight sim enthusiast are making combat flight sims, yet some in the community treat them like they're a soulless big development only in it for the money, and to screw them over.
Posted by: FIScott

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/18/12 05:09 AM

I've just seen and read the update and looking at the pieces there are some encouraging signs. Personally I can't see an early release of even a beta patch. There is the 3rd update and clip next week and they are working on the physics module as well, if they are looking to add that work to the update I guess 4-6 weeks.

Looking at it as a whole the concept of a 'full battle' sim has merits. I'm in a squad where there are people playing land based and flight sims at the same time and the idea of everyone being able to play in the same sim doing what they like would be incredible but in light of what I've seen of CoD since launch I can't shake the feeling that they are trying to run before they can walk. The modular design of CoD lends itself to this kind of sideways development but the Maddox crowd are flight sim developers and anyway who bought Cod to man a flak gun or drive a lorry ?

With a sound underlying game the implications of being able to bring together these different genres of gameplay are apparent to even the likes of me so to professional game developers it would surely be very ineresting ? If that is the case wouldn't 1C/Maddox be better placed for the future focusing there efforts to fixing the issues and replacing the placeholders. I think they would.
Posted by: PV1

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/18/12 06:02 AM

Hmm. First off, the terrain looks a bit nicer, thanks in part to the trees, what little of it was visible from the air
(ground views don't count).

But clearly, the creation of drivable british ground vehicles can only mean one thing: it is all part of the Great Plan.
There is a hugely complex and detailed dynamic campaign being created, which will include the possibility that the
initial air battle will be lost, Sealion will be launched, and a full scale invasion force will be engaged on the ground
in the home counties. As a pilot you may have to hop in your MG (all RAF pilots own MGs, dontcha know?) and dash off
to find an airfield not already overrun, before you can hope to even get airborne. Matildas will creak and trundle
about, trying to stave off the panzers so you will have somewhere to land and refuel.

What other reason could there possibly be?
Posted by: Keithb77

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/18/12 06:15 AM

Quote:
What other reason could there possibly be?

Battle of France?
Cheers
Keith
Posted by: Avimimus

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/18/12 10:59 AM

North Africa?
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/18/12 01:32 PM

Originally Posted By: FIScott
I've just seen and read the update and looking at the pieces there are some encouraging signs. Personally I can't see an early release of even a beta patch. There is the 3rd update and clip next week and they are working on the physics module as well, if they are looking to add that work to the update I guess 4-6 weeks.

Looking at it as a whole the concept of a 'full battle' sim has merits. I'm in a squad where there are people playing land based and flight sims at the same time and the idea of everyone being able to play in the same sim doing what they like would be incredible but in light of what I've seen of CoD since launch I can't shake the feeling that they are trying to run before they can walk. The modular design of CoD lends itself to this kind of sideways development but the Maddox crowd are flight sim developers and anyway who bought Cod to man a flak gun or drive a lorry ?

With a sound underlying game the implications of being able to bring together these different genres of gameplay are apparent to even the likes of me so to professional game developers it would surely be very ineresting ? If that is the case wouldn't 1C/Maddox be better placed for the future focusing there efforts to fixing the issues and replacing the placeholders. I think they would.


I agree eventually having a combined forces sim will be good for the genre. I'm also sure the vast majority of the development crew are working on the FM, DM, AI, Commands, Graphics, etc etc. as they should be. While one vehicle guy also necessary for rudimentary convoy control, etc doing the ground work for more advanced combined forces features, that could be incorporated much later in the series, shouldn't be a problem. There is no way the developer is stupid enough to regulate too many resources to ground war features in this critical period of development.
Posted by: Chivas

Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. - 02/18/12 01:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Keithb77
Quote:
What other reason could there possibly be?

Battle of France?
Cheers
Keith


I can see a third party's developing the Battle of France, and any other short, relatively unknown theaters, while the developer concentrates on the larger theaters like the Med etc. Once the SDK comes out and modders get acquainted, we should start seeing these smaller theaters developed.