What happened to the original SB?

Why not put it on gog.com for $4.99?

I'm still waiting for SBPro to be put on Steam.

100x$125 = $1,250

1000x$60 = $60,000

The original SB (SB Gold beeing the latest itteration) is not updated anymore.


Steam? AFAIK Ssnake, it ain't gonna happen


PS.: But 1000x125=125.000 $

Ronin is correct rezerekted.
Unless there has been a change in policy from esim.
Ssnake had ruled out using steam in the past
Explore the time licence option.

Valve wants a 30% cut of your sales IIRC. If $125 offers eSim an acceptable profit margin, they'd have to sell SBpro on Steam for $190 or expect to sell 50% more copies by moving to steam. Both is not realistic.

Selling the original Steel Beasts on gog.com would be awesome however and I don't see a downside to that.

To me, selling a computer software, for no matter how low a price, implies rendering technical support for it. And both my ability and my inclination to render support for an eight bit color mode, 640x480 pixel resoluted DirectX 7 application, when most graphics card drivers these days don't even support such a mode any more ... well, let me just say that you couldn't pay me enough money.
My ability to render support is a finite resource. Every moment that I spend supporting SB1 is a moment that I cannot spend working on our current product. Therefore, and particularly if it went for just a few bucks, supporting SB1 would be a net loss for eSim Games.

As to Steam, I'm against it because of the related privacy issues. That's merely a matter of our corporate policy. You can buy Steel Beasts directly from us, or second hand through eBay. We don't care. Steam would however remove your ability to sell a used copy of SB Pro PE - so even if it were sold at the same prices you'd still have a net loss in value - and it would isolate us from our customers because all the transactions are now being handled by a middle man, who not only keeps that information to himself, but also enforces a policy of forced middleware updates and who monitors your gaming habits whenever you're online.
I'm not willing to burden our customers with that price.

Still better than a USB dongle.

With that, I massively disgree..

They only monitor the game one plays when playing games registered on Steam. Don't demonized Steam.

That's what I heard from their mouth. Maybe they were only considering that option in early stages, maybe it's up to the developers to decide how intrusive they want to be. But whether it's just as simple as logging when you play (and when you don't), how log you do it and how often, how many games you own (and which) is already more info than Amazon has about the books and DVDs that you bought. It may be that the remaining behavioral tracking is left to the developer. It may be that it's up to them to create an achievement system that only works online (Civilization 5), that they are generating heatmaps to figure out where people get stumped in levels so subsequent updates make certain passages harder or easier (that IS being done), or if they want to place in-game advertisement based on total user behavior surveillance (something that at least was discussed a while ago).

I'm not demonizing anything. If you chose to ignore what's going on, that's your decision. All that I can say is that eSim Games does not intend to partake in such activities. Therefore we need to find other ways to protect our work. Some of you may not like it, such is life. We will never win 100% of all potential customers, there's always going to be someone who doesn't like this, or that, and therefore refuses to buy. Which is okay. I'm just surprised about the amount of projection that is going on. Everybody seems to assume that we want a massive number of customers, and then makes all kinds of helpful comments to set us on the same track as most other game companies.

Well: We are not like them.

I am willingly fully aware of my environment. I just don't exaggerate. I have read post from you that were exaggerating situation; like you posted that gamers needed to pay to win when playing World Of Tank.

Besides, I have never read a praise from you concerning another tank game/sim. The bad and the worst are always what you focus on. Steam which was developed by Valve (Half Life) has been helping gamers for years.

Since 9/11 did you have to supply your customer list to some Governmental Agency?

1) That you have never read any praise that I publicly made about other tank game does not mean that I never wrote any. But of course I don't expect you to read everything that I write. Given my focus on eSim Games trying to create the best (=most realistic, as far as simulation results and procedures are concerned) tank simulation that is commercially available, I naturally am less inclined to pay attention to titles that are clearly meant to be for entertainment purposes only. And where I can't praise, I usually try to keep my mouth shut and maintain a professional attitude.

2) Often I'm trying to explain the reasons why we're NOT doing certain things that some people suggest we should be doing. Naturally I have to focus on those aspects that we don't like, otherwise our attitude would appear utterly irrational. If that comes across as pure negativity - well, it's not intended.

3) As far as the "exaggeration" bit is concerned: To make a point succinctly you sometimes need to sharpen the argument a bit. The alternative are walls of text, which are both neither read, nor do they help me to communicate in a time-efficient manner.


So, for the record: I congratulate the WoT developers for creating a title that gets millions of gamers interested in tanks. Their design decisions aren't mine, and naturally I prefer mine or else I would have made different decisions, but all that said, it's still a good thing for the entire tank-oriented gaming community as a whole.
Likewise the success of Steam as a digital distribution platform is so profound and obvious that it doesn't need my applause for everybody to recognize it for what it is. Nevertheless I stand firm by my statement that the associated privacy issues are serious, and go against our own policies.


4) As to your last question,
a) No,
b) Of course we would comply with court orders, but eSim Games residing in Germany I don't see such a thing happening anytime soon.

That said, I don't think that the NSA would need our cooperation, but that's just a suspicion.

So I suppose getting it as abandonware is not a problem?

If you want moral cover from me for using an illegal copy - no, you won't get it. We're not selling the original Steel Beasts anymore, but that doesn't mean that we're forfeiting our copyright. We're just no longer allowing copies to be made. There is no legal term that would be the equivalent of "abandonware". All software, unless it's REALLY old, or released under a suitable license, is copyright protected, period.

We have no moral or legal obligation to keep a software for sale that has been discontinued more than a decade ago. I'd rather offer you our current version of Steel Beasts Pro PE (4.0) - which is infinitely better than version 1 anyway.

.

We have no moral or legal obligation to keep a software for sale that has been discontinued more than a decade ago. I'd rather offer you our current version of Steel Beasts Pro PE (4.0) - which is infinitely better than version 1 anyway. [/quote]

+1.
The 4.0 version is considerably better in every way.
The legacy was very good in its day, but that was over ten years ago.
I would recommend buying the licence version you cant go wrong if you wont to give it a try ten euro will give you a months trial
25 euro for three months and 40 euro for a years subscription. give or take a couple of cents.

Legally the term 'abandonware' means absolutely nothing.

The only reason companies do not go after these sites is because they are extinct or realize they would get close to nothing suing them.The value of 10+ year old software is not much.

Saying that, I think it is horrendous to see places selling copies of ancient software for 100 to 200 dollars.

I fire up SB Gold on occasion on my old laptop that I travel with. The laptop probably has about the value of a 10 year old smartphone (IE none), so the risk of it being stolen is about nil. I keep it loaded up with older games that only run in an XP or older environment, and don't have any data of any real value (besides my saves of course!). It serves perfectly well to check email, and word process as work requires as well.

I find SB Gold to still be quite enjoyable, and it is still an excellent product once you move beyond the visuals. Thrashing a Warsaw mech battalion while I wait for my flight is a nice diversion. I do however absolutely understand Ssnake's stance on it as supporting it for the modern computing audience.

Question to Ssnake, as you guys are supporting it, or selling it anymore, would it be possible to release the source for freeware use? There have been quite a few titles that have continued to thrive for years beyond their commercial releases due to this. Just curious.

-Jenrick

Absolutely NOT.

There are still elements in it that today's Steel Beasts uses. We're not helping our competitors with releasing even an old source, no way. Also, and I think this is pretty obvious, it is not in our interest at all to help keeping a software alive (and be it through extensive fan mods) that functionally competes with today's Steel Beasts, and therefore cuts into our sales.

I'm all for providing you with the best armor simulation that we can possibly develop. We're offering SB Pro PE at a price that is heavily subsidized by the classroom version. While we do SELL it, we're not really making money from it. BUT we want our users to have "skin in the game", to contribute something to the development. So - no freebies, I'm sorry.

Undoubtedly so, but I think you overestimate the reasons one would want SB gold. Tank sims are hard to come by nowadays. SB gold would be a nice extra option, especially fo those who prefer or cant do better than a low spec machine(im writing from a freaking netbook and still play jane's sims on it). I do not want SB Pro, just because. I want SB Gold. Im contend with it. Im not looking for the ultimate tank sim.

-But sir, this newer vacuum cleaner, can also make coffee, do the dishes, and your wife!
-But I dont want my vacuum to make me coffee, do the dishes and my wife. I just want it to suck crap off the floor.

If you guys catch my drift.



Concidering that there are not really any competitors and that SB gold is far too old for someone to be able to bring it up to speed with Pro or even somehow utilise it for profit, thats the worst case scenario, which I have never seen it play out. You make it sound like you guys are at the edge of your capacity. Like if you try to support SB Gold in any concievable way, the whole company will crumple. What about a third party support for SB gold that pays a cut to esim?

Alas Im not telling you that you are obligated to do any of that, im just debating.

In anycase, Im getting a Gold copy off of ebay. I was not looking for a free copy, it was about convinience.

Well, SB Pro PE runs just fine even on older machines if you're willing to disable all the fancy stuff that makes modern graphics look better than the old software engine of Steel Beasts 1. Like, shadowmapping and antialiasing - you can still get 40+ frames per second like that on effin' Intel integrated graphics (how much lower does it have to get in hardware requirements?). And it still looks leaps and bounds better than SB1.

Also, nobody is stopping you from legally buying a second hand copy from eBay or some other source (which you apparently just did). All I'm saying is that

a) We don't render technical support for a software that we discontinued fourteen years ago
b) We do not provide moral cover for piracy. Downloading it from a "warez" site is illegal, and you can't seriously expect us to lend a hand to legitimize it
c) If you want to reward us for our work, or support us continuing putting out one of those tank sims that are "hard to come by nowadays", we'd love to sell you a copy of SB Pro PE because it does everything that SB1 does, just infinitely better.

At least one tank sim isn't "hard to come by". It's just a download away and licenses are readily available in our web shop, from $9.50 up. And that one tank sim has always been available to you, since August 2000. If you don't want to spend any money on it, that's perfectly fine. It's your money, and your decision how to spend it. I'm not here to tell you that "SB Pro is what you need". But don't tell me that you (not specifically you, but "you" as a representative of the group of people who want SB1 from us) have a right as a consumer to get to pick what we should be putting up on sale.

eSim Games is a business, not a charity. In a free market, you simply have to respect our decision to not sell a certain product but rather offer something else. And if I'm telling you that making the source code of SB1 available to a third party is not an option for us, this isn't just a mere opinion, it carries weight. It's a carefully considered position.

Well said Ssnake.
But 14 years later, I am still wishing Esims would have made a WW2 version. Life is what it is. If you want something bad enough then you have only your self, family and friends to make it happen. If it is an opus, then you will loose family and friends. Sorry, I ramble.

Well done Esims, for 14 years you have given me a bar to set my expectations against. Your business model is as exceptional as your product. and your staff.
It has been an enlightening time.
Brit44'Aldo'

Thank you for the kind words. And given your history as a Panzer Elite modder I suppose you have an idea about the amount of work that goes into development, so that carries some extra significance.

I don't think I need to repeat myself as to why we went for contemporary tanks rather than WW2. My interests simply are what they are, and going contemporary allows us to subsidize the PE development. WIthout that we would have long closed the company and ceased all development on Steel Beasts. Anything WW2 by necessity is art or entertainment and that just doesn't make enough money to sustain simulation development (unless, maybe, you adopt a micropayment system like WoT ... but then you apparently need to cut back the simulation elements as well to make it interesting enough for a sufficient number of people).

How about adding in a couple of WW2 Tanks per new update and charge a little more for the update to cover the costs.
A lot of WW2 armour was utilised post WW2 T34s shermans were still in service in third world armies and paramilitary up in till the nineties.

I'm not categorically ruling all this out, but to be honest it's more of a diversion than anything else. I see a serious danger to dilute our development capacity and to create a false impression about what SB Pro is about. As soon as the first Sherman is in, people will scream for a Panther and a Panzer IV (both of which, arguably, saw some post WW2 battlefield use). Features create their own demand dynamic. At the same time our actual business is the polar opposite, armored warfare of today and the next ten years rather than the last ten, or from 60 years ago.

I'd give a kidney and my right arm for some WW2 armor in Steel Beasts, but I can understand Ssnake's reluctance to go down that path. It really is developing for a completely different battlespace than what SB currently models. Maybe once esim makes its billions, they can start a spinoff studio focusing on WW2!

Okay, that's a figure I can work with. "Billions". I promise, the day that I made my second billion I'll launch that project.




Your right arm, and a kidney. Duly noted.

I fully appreciate the addition of WW2 Tanks is not a priority for esim.
And accept it would be a time consuming project.
But i also genuinely believe it would be beneficial for PE version sales.
As it would attract WW2 armour fans.
Panzer elite and other WW2 titles are showing there age and limitations.
I will concede it may not be financial viable to create a dedicated WW2 add on.
But as suggested in my previous post adding two or three Tanks per update with a additional fee to cover costs mite be a viable alternative.

The deal is made. Two billions, his right arm, and a kidney.

I can have a right arm and a kidney by tonight.
Will you take weekly installments for the two billion. Lol

Hope he's a left-hand, otherwise playing those WW2 tanks can be become a challenge ;-)

Not "a" kidney and "a" right arm. Rambler made the offer, only he can fulfill it.


We trust in God. All others pay cash.

+1

Why would I want a second right arm?

You getting cheap man. Arms , kidneys? There were time when the "soul of a first born" was a low as you'd go in price...

...they mentioned billions. Much more practical than souls.



The organ donations are a nice bonus, though.

lmao, you guys. One of my kidneys and my right arm is all yours, Ssnake. I'll send them immediately upon esim's acquiring of 2 billion dollars and establishment of a ww2 tank sim studio.



Where there's a will, there's a way!

Yeah... we're just kidding. Right.

Hello to all Steel Beast Legacy fans

I have created my tribute website to Steel Beasts 1.226/Steel Beasts Legacy/Gold, from now onwards referred to as SB1 in this post.

My glorious website, dedicated to the best Tank Sim, outside of Steel Beasts Pro PE, is at http://www.moodurian.com/sb. It's in its infancy so go ahead and have a hearty laugh (or cry) if you want to when you see it. In future I may change the domain name to http://ww.sabotup.com/sb or something more appropriate. I am open to suggestions.

The main purpose of the website is to discuss all things SB1. Unless I am wrong, I will end up discussing with myself as 99.976% of Steel Beasters have transitioned to Steel Beasts Pro PE. Come on, it's been 17 years since year 2000. For discussion and support issues, I have created a forum at http://www.moodurian.com/sb/forum.

A word on SB1 support. As the world of serious tank simming has moved ahead since the dark ages of 2000, and NOW revolves around Steel Beasts Pro PE, I have taken upon myself the noble mantle of SB1 support. In one fell swoop, I have relieved eSimGames of any SB1 support that would distract them from developing and supporting SB Pro PE. No need to thank me, Herr Ssnake. Mein Kapitan, I consider it an honour and my sacred duty.

If you have a question about SB1 you can ask me. I will try my hardest to answer it. If I do not know the answer, and if the manual is silent, then the answer is out there ... somewhere. Hopefully the miniscule SB1 community will provide the answer.

For the record, I play Steel Beasts Pro PE 4.019. Every sane gamer will say that SB Pro PE is a galaxy way-ahead of its year 2000 ancestor in every aspect. I whole heartedly agree. Which tank simulation can model a CV9035 with all its modes of weaponery? Only Steel Beasts Pro PE! Yet, an 'old' froggie like me likes to fire up SB1 once in a while. Why? Because the sounds in SB1 are still great and I die just as fast.

regards
Frankie Kam
Malaysia

Cheers Frankie, heading over to register now!

Hello Frankie,

nice website you made!!!

I have also registred. I still love old combat sims like the old Jane's series, the Microprose stuff and of course Steel Beasts Gold. I have Steel Beasts Pro Pe 4.019 too, but hadn't much time for simming since I bought it. I'm working at my home cockpit at the moment, so I could not play very much.

Cheers Viper

@Ssnake - Have you ever thought of licencing the SB Pro engine? I understand your lack of interest in WW2 as you are primarily orienting on military customers. However the engine you have built has a lot of potential - with the proper tools and a dedicated team it could easily be turned into a WW2 GAME - for retail customers. I'm just hoping that someday someones comes knocking on your door and asking for licensing your engine.

Till then PE is the way to go, but maybe some group comes along....

Licensing SB Pro is not an option for a variety of reasons, none of which are intended to be discussed in public, I'm sorry.