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EECH 1.15.2 update available

Posted By: thealx

EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 08:06 AM

Install 1.15.2 patch only on EECH ver. 1.15.0 (with all components installed, include smokes!) or any 1.15.2RC.

* If you have any side mods installed please completely reinstall the game
* If you have 1.15.2RC4 installed follow these instructions, otherwise you will get "corrupted profile" error after game launch
* Install FIX5 patch only on EECH ver. 1.15.2, description at the bottom of page. It’s not included in 1.15.0 to 1.15.2 update.

EECH installation guide

1.15.0 to 1.15.2 patch direct download
1.15.0 to 1.15.2 patch mirror

EECH 1.15.2FIX5 patch direct download
EECH 1.15.2FIX5 patch mirror



Feel free to ask for help if you have some problems with installation.

If you found any issues in game process please report them at EECH issue tracker and 1.15 Bug Report Thread

Click to reveal.. (Source files of new models and textures)

These files are necessary to use if you making changes in models, scenes or textures. It's not relevant for models, but important for scenes and textures - after conversion from game files, valuable part of information (like structure and layers) will be lost.

DOWNLOAD: eech1152_models_textures.7z



Changes log

Visuals

- New external models for Mi-24, Mi-17, Mi-6, CH-53, AH-1W, Ka-29;
- Model of CH-47 is improved and has new texture;
- Main rotor blades animation, accurate blades damage;
- Horizontal stabilizer of UH-60, AH-64, Mi-17, Mi-6, Mi-24 is animated;
- Rudder of Ka-50 and Ka-52 is animated (only player's helicopter);
- Tilt rotors of MV-22 are animated;
- New undercarriage animation mostly for all helicopters (except AH-64 and CH-3);
- New undercarriage animation system based on 3d scene sub-objects animation. To make it work like you want you just need to give proper names for undercarriage parts, make required animations for them and change values in suspension config file for this helicopter;
- Primitive suspension for AI controlled helicopters - wheels are align to ground surface, but if maximum or minimum limit of current gear is reached it doesn't works;
- Forest trees affected by fog;
- Specular glossiness for textured models;
- New detailed reflection images for different seasons;
- Tweaked smokes (by Zackin5);
- Water textures (by L_Viper);
- AH-1Z updates (by dfang);
- G-force head movement effects improved, visual vibrations added;
- Loadout textures (by civilian);
- New FLIR and LLTV/DTV screens;
- Green NightVision goggles for CIS;
- Rockets muzzle flash animation added;
- New configurable shells tracers;
- Smoke trail visual quality improved;
- Smoke and flame coloring improved;
- New animated ship wakes;
- Aircrafts ground/water collision effects;
- Particles clouds;
- HESCO barriers (by messyhead);
- US pilots camo skins (by SKIP2008);

User interface and gameplay

- New campaign start screen;
- Helicopter repairing and refueling progress bar;
- New EO screen symbology for Havoc, Hokum and Blackshark;
- Clickable fuel quantity button at weapon loading page;
- Additional campaigns - Cuba Libre, Cuba Libre 2, Border War (by ricnunes)
- US ATC voice pack (by LazerPotatoe)
- Troops insertion process optimized

Collisions

- Additional type of collision points added – Stabilizer, Engine and Avionics. Cause corresponding damage;
- Additional points are added to helicopter objects;
- Position of collision points are calculating every frame, collision calculations of moving parts became more accurate;
- Collisions calculating precise increased – it's not cause false clashes, but works worse with very small objects;
- Collision of moving points (rotor blades) do not stop model but create dynamic force in opposite direction;
- Collision points of main rotors are moving automatically from damaged blade section to previous;
- Damaged undercarriage will still work but has less effectiveness;
- Additional undercarriage point types are added for CH-47 and Ka-29;
- Suspension configs moved to \common\data\suspension folder;
- Interaction of helicopter with water are added;
- Missing collision objects are added for Mi-28, Ka-52, AH-64D, AH-64A, AH1-Z, AH1-W, AH1-T, OH-58;
- Emergency landing counts if model on the ground and rotors not moving

Damage

- Tail rotor damage enabled;
- Severity of Main rotor/Tail rotor/Stabilizer/Main rotor blade damage is decreased, Engine damage – increased;
- Value of damage repairing delay is different every time;
- Damage can be taken both from land and other object collision. Amount of damage is depends on current velocity and angle to the surface;
- Hard landing can't cause damage by itself (except undercarriage). If suspension will not able to reduce speed to zero it will be damaged and collision of fixed fuselage points will be calculated;
- Water random damage is added – than longer helicopter staying on water surface than more damage it gets (except CH-47 and CH-53). Engines will be damaged immediately in case of any engine collision with water;
- Repairing cheat has time delay when difficult is HARD;
- Alternative helicopter destruction. Instead of replacing whole model only weapons and pilots are became invisible;
- All aircrafts has armor level (look GWUT file);
- Damage states for aircrafts - mortal damage (30% of damage level left), critical damage (5% of damage level left), smoke appears. damage level decreased about 1 point per second if damage state is mortal, about 8 points per second if damage state is critical (only AI);
- Critical damage state for vehicles (15% of damage level left), vehicle became inactive, damage level decreased about 2 points per second, smoke appears;
- Smooth calculations of armor thickness after weapon impact (both vehicles and aircrafts);

Flight model

- Suspension dynamics added for all helicopters;
- Arneh’s flight model became default;
- Reaction force decreased while tail rotor is damaged;
- Smooth damaged rotor vibrations;
- Sideway resistance of landed helicopter is increased;
- Additional cargo weight for supply missions (6000kg for heavy lift helis, 2000kg for medium lift)
- Alternative advanced flight model added;

Controls

- Opening of doors is separated for all cargo/assault helicopters;
- View control mod (field of view change by mouse wheel, EO control by POV buttons, AH64D EO targeting bug fixed, smooth mouse EO control etc);
- New EO gyro stabilization;
- Force feedback support;
- Improved external camera control by TIR;

Weapons

- Weapon launch force added;
- Ballistic calculations fixed for unguided weapons, targeting mark added for RED's helis with default cockpit;
- Targeting mark added for some BLUE's helis while targeting with Hydra;
- Weapons symbolics fixed for Kiowa;
- Gatling rotating speed fixed;
- Flares and chaff auto launch delay decreased from 10 to 5 second (both for players and AI);
- Chaffs and flares quantity changed almost for all helicopters;
- Chaffs and Flares salvo size increased twice;
- Stinger missiles added for UH-60;
- Ataka missiles added for KA-29;
- Cannon pods added for MI-17;
- Hydra pods added for AH1T and AH1W, Stinger removed;
- 6 M2HB auto cannons and 2 M61A1 (CIWS) added for Tarawa;
- All weapons has separated damage and penetration capabilities;
- Hardball and AP effectiveness decreases with range;
- Explosion splash effectiveness non-linear and depends on type of warhead;
- New warhead types HEDP, MPSM, HEAA (shells with radio proximity fuze);
- Ballistic calculations precision greatly increased, artillery lost capability to use hight ballistic trajectory;
- Switchable weapon payload configs for helicopters with default cockpit;
- Dual-thrust rocket motors support, non-linear fuel consumption;
- All weapon types (include decoy, parachutes etc.) affected by wind;
- Missile guidance lost if no LOS (for active laser, radio command, wire guided weapons, only for players);
- Real time calculations of weapon's drag force;
- Guided weapons statistics ("guided-missiles-data.txt" file, for GWUT improvement)
- Sight systems target visual recognition range increased
- Hydra pods pitch automatically adjusting for Viper, Blackhawk and Kiowa

AI

- Engage target priority depends on it's range
- Jet pilot's ejecting after being critically damaged (by magitek)
- Improved weapon filtering for aircrafts and vehicles
- Group of aircrafts will abort mission and return home if one of the members get mortal damage (main mission priority should be less than 5.0), after landing aircraft will be repaired
- Airplanes and jets movement improved (by magitek)
- Rearming of vehicle's weapon does not make other arms inactive

EECH.INI changes

new values for "high_lod_hack" string
new string "eo_models_quality"
new value for "flight_model" string
new string "max_smoke_time"
new string "smoke_optimization"
"render_tree_shadows" renamed in "render_shadows", new value appears
new string "forcefeedback"
new string "ffb_dynamics"
new string "ffb_vibrations"
new string "ffb_recoil"
new string "advanced_mfd"
new value for "camcom" string
new string "saves_copies"
new string "trees_fog"
new string "radio_msgs_noise"
new string "debug_show_damage"
new string "debug_damage_invulnerable"
new string "debug_log"
new strings "reverse_cyclic"
new string "cockpit_vibrations"
new string "flyby_timer_multiplier"
new string "cheats_on"
new string "blurred_rotor_blades"
"ui_sounds_muted" default value changed from 1 to 0
"user_invulnerable_time" default value changed from 5 to 1
"chaff_effectiveness" default value changed from 1.0 to 0.5
"flare_effectiveness" default value changed from 1.0 to 0.5
"night_light_level" default value changed from 1.0 to 0.8
"mfr" default value changed from 30 to 60
"russian_nvg_no_ir" default value changed from 0 to 1
"autosave" default value changed from 0 to 30
"comms_packet_data_size" default value increased from 512 to 640
*** ATTENTION: if comm server crashed right after client player logged into the game you should increase comms_packet_data_size value both for client and server ***


GWUT changes

- WEAPONS

new values "tracer_color", "tracer_fire_time", "final_weight", "flightpath_deviation",
"boost_power", "sustain_power", "sustain_time", "diameter", "detonation_radius", "rearming_time", "max_altitude"

removed "max_range_loal", "min_range_loal"

- AIRCRAFTS

new value "armor_level"

- VEHICLES

new value "armor_level"



EXPLOS changes

new values "motion_vector_pitch" and "particle_generator_lifetime" for particles

SMOKES changes

"Wind affected" value became modifier

Known problems:

- Some collision problems – like going through small objects;
- Hellfire's LOAL trajectory doesn't work for client player (if he not locked on target)
- Ballistics calculation for client's weapons doesn't respect network delay, accuracy of calculations for projectiles and guided weapons greatly decreased
- M261 rockets doesn't work for client player
- CIWS less effective against weapons, launched by client player
- EO screen partially functional or non-functional at all when cockpit graphics disabled (Ctrl+F1)

FIX5 changes list:

Bugs fixed:

- Pilot/copilot hand visible wile in the Wideview mode (Hokum/Kiowa/Comanche)
- Nonlinear cyclic and pedals EECH.INI stings doesn't work
- Cockpit camera moving wile Player in the planner mode
- Player’s avionics damage doesn't saving before helicopter is unassigned
- Comanche’s stub wings appears after saved game was loaded, affects stealth factor calculation
- Conventional munitions weapon doesn't cause damage if munitions wasn't ejected
- Conventional munitions weapons doesn't work for Client
- Airborne helicopter's rotor RPM is zero after it was assign to player
- Illogical HUD names for Hellfires
- AI helicopters (include autopilot) has no velocity limit
- Unreadable axis names at controls config page (localized drivers)
- Collision point continues to create collision effects even if it doesn't move (main rotor blade etc.)

Improvements:

- EO visibility and recognition range increased (up to 9.5km)
- Player's priority value depends on difficulty level – for EASY difficult level AI helicopters will be engaged by enemy first, Player’s helicopter last
- Repair rotor blades after helicopter was unassigned from Player
- Masterserver connection indicator for session list page (green mark at top left corner)
- Client's weapon delay value using for ballistic calculations (Client side)
- Compensate Client's cannon rate of fire limit by increasing damage value (Server side)
- Comanche tail rotor collision point raise to avoid easy rotor damage.
- Dynamics forward velocity adjustments for most helicopters
- Main rotor overspeed damage threshold increased
- New way of stealth factor calculation (radar detection range multiplier) :
* Closed weapons bay (Comanche only) decrease stealth factor 40%
* Detached stub wings (Comanche and Kiowa Warrior) decrease stealth factor 35%
* Raised landing gears (helicopters with retractable gears) decrease stealth factor 10%
- EO tracking point position can be controlled by mouse while locked on ground point
- HMS possible (not guaranteed) recognition range of airborne targets increased.
- Blackhawk’s HMS recognition range increased from 2500 to 3000 meters
- “Previous target” button (Shift+NUM0) switched with “Previous designated target” button (Ctrl+NUM0)
- Sound notification appears after hover hold was interrupted by player's controls


IMAGES

Screenshot & Video Gallery » EECH (latest beta)
Screenshot & Video Gallery » EECH (1.15.2RC4)




VIDEO

Posted By: ricnunes

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 10:49 AM

Thanks very much for your hard work thealx and for sharing it!

Downloading and installing it right now.
Posted By: Staniol

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 12:09 PM

Amazing work.
Will download and install when I get home.
Thank you!
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 03:38 PM

Downloaded now, i can't wait to play with it. Many thanks for your hard work.
Posted By: HawkI

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 06:14 PM

Thanks to all who have given their time and effort for this project.
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 06:20 PM

Yahoo! band
Posted By: Rafal1537

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 06:33 PM

How to run, I'm have error with running mod: "current player profile is corrupted"
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 06:42 PM

did you leave checked "clear user profile" before installation? if so, did you manually copied playersv.bin from previous version after installation? look for playersv.bin and players2.bin file in cohokum folder, if there are any - delete them.
Posted By: Rafal1537

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 07:04 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
look for playersv.bin and players2.bin file in cohokum folder, if there are any - delete them.

Yes is deleted, but not worked continue
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 07:19 PM

is new playersv.bin file appears? you can try to put this one manually - https://app.box.com/s/jnb990dpmhe2qwfq5a5h maybe I will understand were problem is.
Posted By: Rafal1537

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 07:30 PM

ok, now working, thanks
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 07:32 PM

very very strange...
Posted By: FireBird_[WINE]

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/02/14 10:00 PM

Some problems.

Click to reveal..
BTW, (hor_angle, vert_angle) * zoom is not (hor_angle * zoom, vert_angle * zoom). First of all tan(hor_angle/2) / tan(vert_angle/2) must be equal to height/width for any angles to preserve proportions. Again, that zooming may create angles greater then Pi, and that is not correct.
Thus the correct zoom should be _something_ like this:
(hor_angle, vert_angle) * zoom = ( 2*atan(tan(hor_angle/2)*zoom), 2*atan(tan(vert_angle/2)*zoom) ).

The smokes database format was changed, but the version in the header was not. That's confusing.

playersv.bin contains the version too. It allows to save playing results between major updates (addition of new gunships and weapons). Why the previous progress is not saved?

Also, it's better to move repeating code (like object_diffuse_value setting) into the separate functions. There are too much copy-paste in code yet.

weapon_sub_type >= && weapon_sub_type <= may lead to problems in future.

Lists of installing files was changed but eech_all_mods.nsi is not modified.

Was there a reason to commit 200 Mb of textures into code repository? Should we commit 1,3 Gb of previously released ones? Same for maps.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 12:06 AM

Good stuff!

Other than the lack of stereoscopic, missing Comanche lampshade radar thing, Kiowa torque readout being inaccurate, and the always slightly wanky yaw behavior (I can swear sometimes the ball & tail is moving in the wrong direction), the only other niggle is the load out screen Hellfire version. I would vote switching that to L = Laser and R = Radar to be consistent with the in-cockpit information. We don't need to be geeking out with technical names and it will confuse newcomers for obvious reasons. Not too big a deal, though. Eventually they would figure it out.

Very enjoyable simulation experience now with an X65, pedals, PPJoy, and GlovePIE, though. The closest experience to a (very) updated Janes Longbow 2 I've ever had.

Edit: Oh, and a little compass readout number on the upper right corner of the upfront display would be useful when the MFDs and IHADDS is all down but that little display is still working. Maybe waypoint info, too.
Posted By: Stratos

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 07:30 AM

I don't have the game installed, what I need to do If I want to start from scratch?
Posted By: messyhead

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 07:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Stratos
I don't have the game installed, what I need to do If I want to start from scratch?


Follow these instructions first, then install 1.15.2

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3185855
Posted By: Alemart

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 04:56 PM

Amazing work guys!, i will download and install ASAP.
Posted By: Rafal1537

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 06:32 PM

Why choppers all timie going down?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 06:57 PM

if you asking why it lower the nose while move forward - it's reaction on drag force, you can compensate it with trim but usually forces reach balance at cruise velocity. or it's something with lift?
Posted By: Rafal1537

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 07:04 PM

Yes is this, but in previous don't have that reaction, can turn off this effect?
Mi-28N don't have cocpit, only black screen and hud visible
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 07:09 PM

you can switch back on default flight model (flight_model = 0)
turn on HW rendering (notnl = 0) until I'll find what's the problem.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 08:06 PM

Also, with cheats off I seem to not be able to change the loadout at FARPs at least 50% of the time. Not sure what's going on. Is there a designated ground crew area?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 08:19 PM

It's old problem - keysite area is 200x200 meters, quite often you are starting out of this area. it's can't be related with cheats_on string. several time I got helicopter based on warship, but it was outside of keysite and suspensions hasn't worked.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 08:55 PM

Ok.

Continuing to enjoy this.

Did you guys know the autopilot can go like 275 kts when you're a wingman and you're far behind your flight?

When you turn autopilot off, the collective jumps down first before registering what your HOTAS is currently at.

Comanche and Viper FLIR effective range could be increased.

Comanche tail vulnerability to damage could be decreased.
Posted By: HawkI

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/03/14 10:42 PM

This sim just keeps getting better and better! Keep up the amazing work, guys, it really is much appreciated.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/04/14 03:29 AM

Quote:
Did you guys know the autopilot can go like 275 kts when you're a wingman and you're far behind your flight?

yep, AI moves at maximum speed what is not correct for non-battle situation. I just didn't managed how to separate battle and regular mode yet, also default FM have higher practical top velocity and it's additional problem.
or "drag_z value.modifier" just too high for this helicopter

Quote:
When you turn autopilot off, the collective jumps down first before registering what your HOTAS is currently at.

I will look.

Quote:
Comanche and Viper FLIR effective range could be increased.

8km is real FLIR effective range, isn't it? anyway, it's up to max fog distance already (rendering limit of current engine)

Quote:
Comanche tail vulnerability to damage could be decreased.

it's true, but simple collision calculations makes possible to touch tail rotor blades even if it's unlikely because of tail construction and it's hard to avoid
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/04/14 09:34 AM

Originally Posted By: thealx
8km is real FLIR effective range, isn't it? anyway, it's up to max fog distance already (rendering limit of current engine)


The AH-1Z FLIR which is called Target Sight System (TSS) has a maximum range of around 13km to 15km.

For more information look here (specially at page 31):
http://ceweb2.uml.edu/EW_Project3/dengl33066/AH1ZPocketGuide.pdf
Posted By: tirta

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/04/14 10:00 AM

with the update, the sim looks better than ever.
thanks thealx! biggrin
amazing work as always. biggrin biggrin biggrin
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/04/14 02:10 PM

ricnunes, thanks for the info. maybe it will be increased to 10km later, but it's maximum for today.


Originally Posted By: tirta
amazing work as always. biggrin biggrin biggrin

thanks! my bugs amazing as always too biggrin
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/04/14 09:32 PM

Which campaigns have the most MANPADS, as in FARPs not seeming completely abandoned save the vehicles and helos? Infantry heavy machine guns and shoulder fired heaters don't seem common in what I've flown so far.

Does the Viper limits (like max speed) depend on the W Cobra's or is it independent?

AI has an unfortunate tendency to keep attempting to attack the target every few minutes after being told to hold position and/or hold fire. I think this is because my aircraft keeps asking for assistance. Do I need to silence my copilot?

----
Easier...

Audible disengagement of Hover Hold when you've pushed-out/maneuvered out of the Hover would be nice.

Probably harder...

Altitude Hold or Hover Hold commanded altitude marker on HUD altitude tape might also be useful.

Vne marker on the IAS HUD tape might be useful. With the much lower never exceed speeds (some much lower than accurate), this would be helpful during evasions and dives when the visible turbulence is not as noticeable prior to the rotors ripping off.

------------


Still enjoying this.

Some of the FLIR imagery on the EO sensor display is not showing up unless the helmet NV/flir is active.

It would be nice if the mouse EO/FLIR control worked when you were locked or ground stabilized, especially considering the auto targeting doesn't work on the FLIR unless you are very close... especially for airborne targets. The keys for moving it around is too slow.

Calling in artillery doesn't seem to be doing anything. If it's unavailable, maybe it should say so. Does it just take a long time?
Posted By: Snachito

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/05/14 03:20 AM

All I can say is............. WOW and THANK YOU TONS, thealx!!! I kid you not I called in sick to work yesterday so I could stay home and fly my 1.15.2 install all day long!!

One weird thing that happened is I installed the patch/update to a 1.15.2RC install I had and when I pressed cockpit to start the mission it didn't crash, but I got some box error message that said something about weapons error or something like that, so I deleted that copy.

I always keep of copy of my flight sims on a portable drive so I copied a clean EECH 1.15 install over to my main drive, installed the patch/update and this time right at the very beginning there was a box message error on something else. I deleted that copy of EECH and tried again..........this time even though I did nothing different than before it worked perfectly!!

All I'm trying to say is if anyone has a problem with the install keep trying as it will work eventually if it doesn't work the first install time and it's WELL WORTH THE WAIT/WORK!!!!
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/05/14 06:41 PM

Reticuli: Mouse control should work in the EO/FLIR screen too; try middle mouse button or Ctrl+Del.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/05/14 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By: NutsnBolts
Reticuli: Mouse control should work in the EO/FLIR screen too; try middle mouse button or Ctrl+Del.


Doesn't seem to when it's locked or ground stabilized and I have to resort to the crude keys or buttons I use for narrowing or moving the radar scan. If it's completely free (which is mostly a useless state for it to be in for manual targeting), then the mouse will control it.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/05/14 07:42 PM

Quote:
Does the Viper limits (like max speed) depend on the W Cobra's or is it independent?


they are separated in both FMs, but it doesn't means that they have different values.


Quote:
Some of the FLIR imagery on the EO sensor display is not showing up unless the helmet NV/flir is active.

can you provide some images? I can't imagine what exactly it is

Quote:
Calling in artillery doesn't seem to be doing anything. If it's unavailable, maybe it should say so. Does it just take a long time?

I checked these functions before and seems they shall work. there is several conditions - like artillery should be close enough and they should wait for orders, usually they are busy and just rejecting your request.

Quote:
Doesn't seem to when it's locked or ground stabilized and I have to resort to the crude keys or buttons I use for narrowing or moving the radar scan. If it's completely free (which is mostly a useless state for it to be in for manual targeting), then the mouse will control it.

it was always this way and it's obvious for me - if you are locked on target or EO slaved to active radar you can't move EO. you can move it manually when any EO targeting system is active (not just shown on MFD), whatever GStab state is. and you always can switch between designated targets with RMB or Num0.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/05/14 10:06 PM

I guess that means it should be pretty easy to make the Viper's Vmax higher. Good news. I don't think the lift values need changing. I like the way it is now for everything. Some are already capable of too much ceiling for a given loudout, so it's a good compromise on the lift and air density values given this flight model. Just the Vmax need some tweaking here and there.

Smoke sometimes, and it seems some objects at long ranges, will show up in the FLIR only if the PNVS is on also. I have ranges all maxed out for PNVS and FLIR/EO, and definitely stuff still also shows up slightly sooner in the PNVS before the FLIR. Without symbology present on the HUD showing where the FLIR is pointed at when a weapon is not active, I have to target using FLIR, then quickly select a weapon (like cannon) check where it's at on the HUD, then go weapon safe and move the FLIR again until I get reasonably close. I'll try to grab some screen shots.

If all the artillery batteries within the target's range are preoccupied at the moment, why doesn't it tell me? Does it do a queue system or just either they're free or not? Calling in an airstrike appears to create a brand new mission that must be filled rather than vectoring nearby airborne aircraft with available munitions. I assume artillery requests are not a new mission... ???

On the FLIR moving issue, I understand what you are saying. The issue is the keys which control radar scan width/position and the FLIR/EO movement are the only thing that work when you are ground stabilized or locked to a target in TADS. Even when mouse is turned On for FLIR/EO (ctrl Del or middle mouse wheel button), the mouse doesn't do anything unless the FLIR/EO is completely free floating. That makes it extremely difficult to manually select targets using just those crude keys instead of a mouse with faster max movement speed and finer gradations when just a little motion is used.

Originally Posted By: thealx
Quote:
Does the Viper limits (like max speed) depend on the W Cobra's or is it independent?


they are separated in both FMs, but it doesn't means that they have different values.


Quote:
Some of the FLIR imagery on the EO sensor display is not showing up unless the helmet NV/flir is active.

can you provide some images? I can't imagine what exactly it is

Quote:
Calling in artillery doesn't seem to be doing anything. If it's unavailable, maybe it should say so. Does it just take a long time?

I checked these functions before and seems they shall work. there is several conditions - like artillery should be close enough and they should wait for orders, usually they are busy and just rejecting your request.

Quote:
Doesn't seem to when it's locked or ground stabilized and I have to resort to the crude keys or buttons I use for narrowing or moving the radar scan. If it's completely free (which is mostly a useless state for it to be in for manual targeting), then the mouse will control it.

it was always this way and it's obvious for me - if you are locked on target or EO slaved to active radar you can't move EO. you can move it manually when any EO targeting system is active (not just shown on MFD), whatever GStab state is. and you always can switch between designated targets with RMB or Num0.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/06/14 12:37 AM

If you move the PNVS angle, sometimes it will also cause it to disappear, or become obscured by fog, perhaps, in the FLIR.




I also notice that some tanks are impossible to kill. 4 rah-66 could not kill this one tank. I'd say a third of the groups I come up against have at least one vehicle that cannot be destroyed.




Sometimes another vehicle will come out of no where. Is such cases a suddenly repaired tank?
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/06/14 12:42 AM

And something eventually will have to be done about the autopilot and AI Vmaxes, otherwise it will not be possible to outrun or even maintain distance during egress from enemy helos. They chase you down every time.

Thanks. Still enjoying this a lot. Just trying to be constructive.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/06/14 02:37 AM

Just done a quick test - Mi-24 EO system will respond to mouse operation both in stabilised and unstabilised modes. Comanche-only problem?
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/06/14 03:15 AM

Originally Posted By: NutsnBolts
Just done a quick test - Mi-24 EO system will respond to mouse operation both in stabilised and unstabilised modes. Comanche-only problem?


Even on the Mi-24 EO mast for me, mouse does not work for moving it when I have locked to a point on the ground. I have to use the EO and radar keys/buttons. Is there a setting in the EECH.ini that I have wrong? When I say ground stabilized, I do not simply mean the grstab = 1 setting in the EECH.ini. I mean actually ground stabilized in use. I'm not even sure what that grstab setting is supposed to do.

Edit: The value for grstab in the ini really seems to have no function anymore, as you ground stabilize by locking to a point on the ground.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/06/14 03:34 AM

Quote:
when I have locked to a point on the ground

EO is locked, so it shouldn't move.
Quote:
what that grstab setting is supposed to do

press Ctrl + S when FLIR is active and gstab (gyro stabilization technically) will be activated. what you telling is not "ground stabilized" but "lock on the ground point"
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/06/14 03:48 AM

Ok. Thanks. You realize that the EO/radar keys still work with lock on ground point, though? Definitely works better than ctrl S but slow to move.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/06/14 07:16 AM

no, I didn't know that.
Posted By: SimonAlonso

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/06/14 10:50 AM

Hello everybody.
Waw!!!...Thealx, I can't believe all the awesome work you have done, and the amount of things you have improved, not only in visual effects, there are too a lot of details, and all is very realistic.
It's very nice to see the new activity with ships, ground units, aircrafts and helos.
Now the helos use their cannos us other helos, awesome.
I can't belive that after your hard work you are thinking in new proyects and helping other modders with very interesting proyects for the future. I have no words.

For me, now, you are the MASTER AND COMMANDER.

Thank very much to the other modders who have contributed to the new release, you have done a very good job too.
I'm very pleased to see the new activity level with this GAME/COMMUNITY. I love you guys, you are doing my fovorite game better as time.

Long live for the COMMUNITY AND EECH.

Again thank you very much.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/06/14 02:08 PM

Firebird is the grand master here, I'm just a young padawan pilot
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/07/14 12:00 AM

Gents, having some confusion. Some of the EECH.ini string descriptions seem to be leftover from earlier iterations of the INI. For example, the Flight Model strong had (during RC4 Fix 8) 3 values - 0 = Default, 1 = Werewolf, 2 = thealx 1, 3 = thealx 2. Is this still the case? Currently the description suggests it's missing the second advanced FM.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/07/14 04:54 AM

it was 0: default 1:werewolf 2: arneh until undercarriage dynamics was finished and arneh's FM became default, default eliminated (technically it's same FM just without suspensions).
after alt FM appears it's became "0 is default flight model, 1 is werewolf's adjustments of default FM, 2 - alternative pseudoreal FM (def = 2)", there is never was 4 options. so "0" and "1" is first advanced FM, "2" - second.

----

if you saw eechcentral page about FM, there was an error, it's corrected now.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/07/14 06:36 AM

Update is available. Fixed troubles:

- Profile conversion from previous game versions
- Smokes and explosion database version increased
- Mi-28 cockpit lighting with Software rendering ("notnl = 1")

*1.15.2 installer updated as well, no need to download this fix if you just started to upgrade your EECH 1.15.0.

If you made any changes in smokes/explosion files, you can increase their version manually to work with updated EXEs. Open EXPLOS.CSV, METASMOK.CSV and SMOKES.CSV in Notepad or any other text editor and increase number after SMOKE; or EXPLOS; on one (SMOKE;1 will be SMOKE;2 etc.), save and close files. If you didn't make any changes, just overwrite them with files from the archive.

After unpacking FIX files you should manually delete playersv.bin file from /cohokum folder. If you have profile from 1.15.0 or 1.15.2RC3 or earlier, you can copy it into 1.15.2 /cohokum folder. If you still want to use current 1.15.2 profile you can change it's version manually in any HEX editor - change first byte value of playersv.bin file from 04 to 05.

Click to reveal..


Download: eech_1152FIX1.zip
Posted By: 3catcircus

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/07/14 02:01 PM

Just discovered this and have to say how impressed I am - wow!

I can run EECH in the bare install from GOG.com and 1.15.2, but if I try to run just the 1.15.0, the game black screens from immediately after running it and I get a Not Responding in task manager, so I'm running 1.15.2 (and was able to install the 1152FIX1).

Something strange, though happens with 1.15.2, but not the bare install: no matter which helicopter I select, it bounces around when on the ground. Hitting the 'b' key for wheel brakes seems to have no effect.

Any ideas?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/07/14 02:23 PM

I remember someone told about similar problems but it was solved after game reinstall. you can try next:
- change Flight model in eech.ini (flight_model = 0)
- be sure that you have no any controls on your joystick (everywhere in the game controls settings should be "keyboard"), maybe game have troubles with reading data from it
- switch "Cross couple" in dynamics options (turn it on or off)
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/07/14 06:54 PM

GWUT Weapons section help page is finished.
Posted By: ss3x

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/08/14 04:07 PM

Hey, im new here. Please... can someone tell me, how disable ForceFeedBack trim support? I have got only chinees rumble joypad. Trim on keyboard have very strange efect, no flight correction only vibrate like hell.
Thx and exuse my english.

EDIT: http://eechcentral.simhq.com/index.php?title=Forcefeedback
last paragraph... and i need oposit off this. Leave Effect and Disable FFB trim support

THx
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/08/14 04:20 PM

wow. I didn't expected that someone will use rumble instead FFB) I'm afraid it's impossible right now - usual trim will not work if FFB enabled in the game.
Posted By: ss3x

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/08/14 04:39 PM

Ok, im plaing on TV with gamepad and couch (like on xbox, but without eech.ini thumbsup ), gamepads have only rumble, no real force.

But realy great work, nice piece of work and reverse engineering.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/09/14 12:12 AM

Considering I don't know where or how to alter the Comanche radar mast or do a scout-only version, I decided to take your advice and spend a little time on the GWUT to improve the cannon performances.

https://app.box.com/s/f30f6urax1fj58qjc6vh

Assuming I did this correctly and the CEP is a direct conversion from dispersion (correct me if I'm wrong)...

I did some research on cannon accuracy, kinetic energy of the rounds at muzzle exit versus HE shell content. I was trying to treat the current in-game Hokum gun dispersion as 1.5 milliradian and a baseline. The Apache is treated as 3-4 milliradian and have brought it up slightly to 0.0012 even though it should probably be 0.0013 or higher. I think that makes it equivalent to 3.3 milliradians dispersion now relative to the other flown choppers. AlphaSix and Arneh had settled on a visually-pleasing round spread for the M230, so I decided to work around this and not increase it too much.

I previously errored on the side of a more stable rotor system's effects for the Viper and Comanche (two of the three helos using the m197 in EECH) using the lower end of the calculation range at 0.00072, though if all other things were equal I think it would be 0.00079 with the adjacent Apache and Hokum gun values. I made the m197 the latter, higher quantity for this GWUT upload so as not to ruffle too many feathers.

The GAU-8 could maybe be higher on damage given my calculations on exit kinetic energy, but it's hard to tell when you take into account in-flight drag... which I assume in the game is only affecting flight, not the damage. So I left most of that where it was.

Some of the larger caliber ship weapons also look excessive by more than double the damage versus comparable kinetic energy in some cases, but then again they also tend to have large HE components as you size up to, say, 100mm frigate guns. So I didn't do much to them, either.

I think I changed one or two additional cannon values on rounds with much less kinetic energy than was assumed due to less velocity that also did not have some substantial additional HE content to account for this.

I tried not to worsen anything's armor piercing capability if it is a special penetrator round and this was already clearly figured in.

There's no gun round fragmentation differences, which was a little disappointing considering some of them, like 20mm rounds, have wide frag effects but poor AP capability.

There's also no self-destruct or air burst value for the rounds, so in one case I just made its self-destruct value a new lower max range. (Correction, there does appear to be self destruct, though I don't know if it explodes. Added for m792.)

And obviously there's no heat-related burst limits. So Apaches can fire continuously without needing on average about 5 seconds every 50 rounds to cool. The burst limit thing in the GWUT is for stuff other than cannons, apparently, as I assumed it would allow at least the AI to have bursts and wait. But it crashed the sim trying to load that GWUT. So no changes there.

It's also interesting to note that in real life besides thermal issues being mitigated, firing in short bursts usually results in the stated dispersion for a given gun. Longer bursts increase the spread of rounds away from the intended point.

Edit: I just improved the CIWS (Vulcan and AK-630) accuracies to 0.0006. A new Phalanx is on-average a 1.5mr dispersion, but as they age and as burst time increases, this gets worse. I could not find info on AK-630 dispersion, but in the interest of game balance made it the same.

Are there any other CIWS anti-missile systems in EECH, like the Goalkeeper or Kashtan?

A lot of other automated gun CEP probably need to be reduced in the GWUT... again, assuming this dispersion to CEP conversion is at all sound ;-)

The manually-fired small arms probably ought to keep their current bad scatter.

Are the autopilot values inside the GWUT as well?
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/09/14 01:03 AM

I think we need a delay between when a landed chopper at a FARP is damaged while on the ground by enemy fire, and when it can start getting repaired. It seems that as soon as they are hit, they are being repaired, which means they can take an unrealistic amount of damage while being unloaded on but just sitting there.

There's also the continuing issue of how to reconcile aerodynamic streamlining of the fuselage (esp tail) or weather-veining while in-flight, to the useful and accurate capability to yaw certain aircraft or fly sideways like on the Ka-50/52 and Rah-66. This is most problematic when a tail rotor is damaged and you attempt to keep from spinning by using forward flight to weather-vein, which isn't currently possible with the "pseudo-real" flight model now. This is probably a hard conundrum to resolve given the simplicity of the EECH flight model, and may be further complicated by the thinner air density recently tweaked to reduce ceilings and top speed. If we have to choose between one extreme or the other, I think the current implementation is probably preferable considering eventually with a damaged tail rotor in real life you will lose enough speed and never get yourself back into sufficient forward motion.
Posted By: 3catcircus

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/09/14 11:37 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
I remember someone told about similar problems but it was solved after game reinstall. you can try next:
- change Flight model in eech.ini (flight_model = 0)
- be sure that you have no any controls on your joystick (everywhere in the game controls settings should be "keyboard"), maybe game have troubles with reading data from it
- switch "Cross couple" in dynamics options (turn it on or off)


I figured it out - I had to dial up the deadzone for my rudder axis...
Posted By: tirta

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/10/14 08:55 AM

I have just found out that the radar toggle switch for single/continuous sweep ( "/" on numpad) does not work.
It only toggles the radar on and off.

Is this intentional?
Or the key is changed?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/10/14 03:06 PM

It's true, single sweep (sweap in keyguide =) mode doesn't work, even if key is configured properly and all functions are present. looks like it's a bug, can't say when and why it appears.

---

nope, it works. after hitting shift + Num/ radar became inactive after finishing current scan. press Num/ and next sweep will be started. for returning to continuous mode press shift + Num/ again.
Posted By: tirta

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/10/14 06:06 PM

thanks thealx biggrin

I confirm it works with "left shift" key but not with "right shift" key on my system.

also I notice there is some stuttering in the graphic.
I am using gtx560.
can you share your graphic setting?

is it possible to minimize it?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/10/14 06:22 PM

try to increase/decrease mfr value in eech.ini. also you can decrease lifetime of persistent smoke (smoke_time).

thread about game performance http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3951821/What_are_your_NVidia_settings?#Post3951821
Posted By: SimonAlonso

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/11/14 08:55 AM

Hello.
I was playing with the red side, then I was fired by a blue helo with his laser hellfire at more than 6km, and I had enough time to cover myself but however I was hit. I have tested this situation several times and I was always hit except if I was cover by a high building. Some times I have destroyed who has fired to me but the misile don't stop until he hit me.
What do you thik about it?
Thanks for your time.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/11/14 11:50 AM

hellfire uses higher trajectory so low covers not really effective. if you meant that missile going through other objects - it's shouldn't be if target is player, but it's possible if both launcher and target are AI. what concrete problem do you have?

if launcher was killed, not fire-and-forget missile should lost target and move by straight trajectory until it will hit something or detonate. but if you was hit by ATA missile - it's absolutely normal.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/11/14 10:40 PM

Lot of problems with the HESCO barriers causing landed aircraft losses. The problem usually starts with the tail rotor colliding with the barriers. Attempting to get the heli out of the barriers' reach doesn't work, because it begins bouncing so violently it simply suffers too much damage and explodes. I've just lost two helis this way - both wound up randomly turned around on the pad, began colliding with the barriers, flipped upside down, and were destroyed. As a suggestion, I'd say either making the barriers sit further from the pads or removing the collision boxes around them, making them pure window-dressing.

In addition, a lot of times helis I try to enter in flight will crash with engines shut down, rotor brake on etc, where they should be on autopilot. However, it's not a universal thing. Any ideas what governs whether the heli you enter is actually kept in the air when you get into it?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/12/14 06:36 AM

removing collisions will make them really useless. I never saw that helicopter was placed with tail rotor in collision box, but if it happens it will be better to make AI land with proper azimuth. just a temporary measure - delete FARP_COLLISION.eeo or replace it with empty.eeo from Hind's cockpit (something should work).

it's a damage problem - AI has no any avionics/engine damage states, only damage level in points. but if player taking control of damaged heli - it will be damaged accordingly to one simple table (depends on damage level). if aircrafts will get global damage states AI will be not able to control heli with critical damage.
Posted By: messyhead

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/12/14 07:36 AM

My intetnion for the FARP improvments was to have proper landing patterns for the AI so that they would always land 'into' the FARP pad and not collide with the Hesco. I also intended improving the positioning and quality of the vehicles and tents, but I want to get my Blackhawk done before that.

When I was looking at the FARP scenes, I noticed that there were a lot of landing pattern objects (just lines) that I think the AI must be set to follow. So I was going to look into how those worked and see if the could be improved.

But in the short term, if you are getting this problem, then do what thealx suggests and remove the collision object. Or if you want to join the EECH modding world, then feel free to have a look at the scenes and see what can be done biggrin
Posted By: tirta

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/12/14 09:33 AM

Originally Posted By: thealx
try to increase/decrease mfr value in eech.ini. also you can decrease lifetime of persistent smoke (smoke_time).

thread about game performance http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3951821/What_are_your_NVidia_settings?#Post3951821



My system is:
i3 3.1Ghz
4gb ram
gtx 560
win xp sp3

with dfr, I get stable frame rate around 55-60.

I have tried to increase/decrease mfr, and also tried some nvidia setting from here:
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3951821/What_are_your_NVidia_settings?#Post3951821

However, I have not find the culprit.
It seems there is no difference, the graphic stuttering remains.
Any other ideas?

Does this game perfom better under xp or win7?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/12/14 10:00 AM

try window mode (fs = 0), or COHOKUM_DS.EXE.
game runs smooth on my Win7 system, but I didn't test it on XP.
Posted By: SimonAlonso

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/12/14 11:59 AM

Sorry by the delay.

First situation:

-I'm a target and the launcher is the AI.

Second situation:

-The launcher was killed and was not fire-and-forget misile or ATA misile. ( I'm not 100% sure but 95% )

Again, thankyou for your time and your effort.
Posted By: SimonAlonso

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/12/14 12:08 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
removing collisions will make them really useless. I never saw that helicopter was placed with tail rotor in collision box, but if it happens it will be better to make AI land with proper azimuth. just a temporary measure - delete FARP_COLLISION.eeo or replace it with empty.eeo from Hind's cockpit (something should work).

it's a damage problem - AI has no any avionics/engine damage states, only damage level in points. but if player taking control of damaged heli - it will be damaged accordingly to one simple table (depends on damage level). if aircrafts will get global damage states AI will be not able to control heli with critical damage.



Sorry by the delay.

First situation:

-I'm a target and the launcher is the AI.

Second situation:

-The launcher was killed and was not fire-and-forget misile or ATA misile. ( I'm not 100% sure but 95% )

Again, thankyou for your time and your effort.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/12/14 07:56 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
removing collisions will make them really useless. I never saw that helicopter was placed with tail rotor in collision box, but if it happens it will be better to make AI land with proper azimuth. just a temporary measure - delete FARP_COLLISION.eeo or replace it with empty.eeo from Hind's cockpit (something should work).

it's a damage problem - AI has no any avionics/engine damage states, only damage level in points. but if player taking control of damaged heli - it will be damaged accordingly to one simple table (depends on damage level). if aircrafts will get global damage states AI will be not able to control heli with critical damage.


Ahh - I hadn't thought of that. Well, if this is an unusual problem, maybe it's in my install. Has anyone else seen this happening?

The helis I'd just lost were both landed by me - their noses were left pointing inward, their tails outward, from the barriers. I quit the game, came back, and the game appeared to have reset their positions.

Re: Autopilot - that makes sense, but this was a heli that had literally lifted off from the FARP about a minute before. It seems unlikely that it was damaged.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/12/14 08:27 PM

I saw such thing before - on some map after game load all helis has moved several meters away and changed heading value. there are wasn't any debug triggers activated and I didn't find the reason. maybe it's the same case, or it's another form of this bug.

it should be some "spin-up timer" issue - I made some changes with these functions to make AI do not take off until rotor RPM is not high enough, but looks like it gives side effects. I will look what's wrong.

Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/13/14 12:12 PM

Originally Posted By: messyhead
My intetnion for the FARP improvments was to have proper landing patterns for the AI so that they would always land 'into' the FARP pad and not collide with the Hesco. I also intended improving the positioning and quality of the vehicles and tents, but I want to get my Blackhawk done before that.

When I was looking at the FARP scenes, I noticed that there were a lot of landing pattern objects (just lines) that I think the AI must be set to follow. So I was going to look into how those worked and see if the could be improved.

But in the short term, if you are getting this problem, then do what thealx suggests and remove the collision object. Or if you want to join the EECH modding world, then feel free to have a look at the scenes and see what can be done biggrin


Dear God... THE POWER...

On a more accurate note, however - I have literally no idea what to do when it comes to modding things. I have all the coding skills of a stuffed albatross and the artistic talents of a blind, armless chimp with motor neurone disease! Mind you, if I could get a sort of basic into, I'd be willing to have a whirl...
Posted By: tirta

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/13/14 02:32 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
try window mode (fs = 0), or COHOKUM_DS.EXE.
game runs smooth on my Win7 system, but I didn't test it on XP.


Hi thealx,

window mode and cohokum_ds.exe does not help.
the graphics still stutters.

However, since there are both win7 and xp on my system,
I try playing eech 1.15.2 under win7, and to my surprise,
the frame rate is higher and it plays a lot smoother under win7,
and the stuttering is not as much under xp.

Is it normal?
so the game performs better under win7. biggrin
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/13/14 02:53 PM

Quote:
Is it normal?

I have no idea, I didn't tried it on XP myself. you can try DX9 version from this thread - Direct3D 9 conversion , it's in testing stage and has graphical issues, but performance is increased in some aspects.
Posted By: Longbow fanatic

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/13/14 03:05 PM

getting a lot of terrain elevation crashes... I'll try to get the exact error next time
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/13/14 03:13 PM

pls turn on debug_log in eech.ini, errors messages will be saved in debug_log.txt
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/15/14 01:07 AM

I notice that the ATGW effectiveness against helis seems to have improved since the last test iteration. I've been able to bring down several with AT-6s, providing the rate of bearing change isn't too high. However, I've recently come across an AH-1Z that appears to be firing some sort of super-ATGW.

No matter what the hell I do - even drop the collective fully, roll the Mi-24 inverted and pull a full-on Split-S, which yields a vertical movement rate alone of about 25-30m/s, plus whatever forward speed one can keep - it simply cannot be avoided. Hits every single time. I guess - since it seems to be firing the Hellfire, judging both from playing with the AH-1Z and watching the smoke trail (which displays a characteristic Hellfire trajectory)- that this is similar to SimonAlonso's problem above.

In another test, I was flying, perpendicular to the launching helicopter, at over 250km/h - the Hellfire still managed to hit me, at a range of about 3km. Surely the Hellfire, a missile optimised to engage targets moving at about 60km/h, should struggle to hit targets doing 3-4 times that?
Posted By: Longbow fanatic

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/15/14 02:28 AM

I know that before the 1.15.2, my laser hellfires used against airborne targets had an alomost 100 percent kill rate, now if the enemy is not flying straight at me or away from me the hellfire seems to miss 5o percent of the time...
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/15/14 02:42 AM

Weird! On a happier note, I too was getting loads of Terrain Elevation Off Map CTDs - however, since doing a clean install with the 1.15.0 - 1.15.2 installer, I've had no problems at all - not a single CTD, in fact, of any kind (touch wood!)

ETA: Before 1.15.2, I had much the same experience with the Sturm; hit rate must have been 95-99%, and it was invariably fatal (as you'd expect from a solid hit with something that can go through half a metre of steel). Nowadays, you're probably talking closer to 40% hit rates against airborne targets, even ones running on parallel courses and similar speeds to the launching helicopter, within 60 degrees of boresight. Which, to my mind, makes sense - the missile's really designed for hitting tanks, which move comparatively slowly.

ETA 2: OK, after playing about with the GWUT I think I've narrowed it down: the problem is purely with the Romeo Hellfire. The missile is able to follow targets moving much faster than those it's meant to attack. It's also got a hugely powerful warhead, meaning a direct hit isn't necessary to bring down anything it attacks. I cut the missile's G-limit in half, and made several test runs against the same AH-1Z as I've been running across each time. Each time, the missile either managed a direct hit or an sufficiently close near-miss to ensure a kill. I then changed the missile's warhead type to 4, matching that of the AGM-114L and K. The result was that near-misses were still damaging, but no longer instantly lethal.

It makes perfect sense that the very heavy multi-purpose, HEAT-FRAG warhead of the Hellfire should do a lot of damage to its targets. So, in a nutshell, I suggest the Hellfire-R is too agile. I'm going to continue experimenting, but to be honest, I don't really know what I'd doing and am more changing values semi-randomly than actually working to any kind of plan! However, what I don't want to do is nerf it to the point where it doesn't work against ground targets...
Posted By: Longbow fanatic

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/16/14 02:49 PM

Great info looks like I'll have to do clean install! and play with my Gwut...a little :-)
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/16/14 03:47 PM

NutsnBolts, you can't change warhead type just because it's works better. if you don't like damage quantity just decrease damage and/or armor penetration capabilities. and I think you will be interested in changing "detonation_radius" value - how far from target missile will be self destructed in case of overshot.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/16/14 05:22 PM

thealx - I quite agree, and hence it's not the warhead that I'm playing with. Maybe it's just a very specific combination of ranges and angles that makes this happen. I've had Viper-paunched missiles miss before, after all, so right now I'm doing tests to try and get shot at by Vipers with the Hellfire-R. Regardless of what happens, it's a really great addition to the game and reflects RL capabilities, so I agree that I can't just go changing its warhead type; I just find it a bit weird that a missile meant to clobbering tanks is that able to catch a fast-moving heli.

'course, everyone else may well think I'm talking balls - in which case, fair enough! smile
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/16/14 06:59 PM

Max 20G turns on an antitank missile? Is sensor FOV modeled or is that quantity I see just launch angle off boresight?
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/16/14 07:30 PM

Hunf. See, I was wondering about the Max G ratings, but not only do I not have any figures for Hellfire Max G, but I also don't know how the game's pretty little head interprets the numbers; from what thealx, Messyhead and others have said, it can do it in very weird ways. I wonder how many G the game simulates on weapon launch? Maybe the high G figures are necessary to prevent the rockets self-destructing on firing, although having said that, I pulled the Hellfire-R's down to 5G and it seemed to be OK - but also flew pretty much in a straight line. Argh, so many variables! :S
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/16/14 07:49 PM

Quote:
I also don't know how the game's pretty little head interprets the numbers

I described everything in this page. is something not clear, or you just haven't look in it?

Quote:
Max 20G turns on an antitank missile?

depends on rocket construction, weight, aerodynamics etc. not much confirmed data was found, if some cells not green in GWUT.XLS file feel free to experiment with them.

Quote:
Is sensor FOV modeled or is that quantity I see just launch angle off boresight?

if target out of EO's FOV you will not able to launch weapon. if it in FOV - max_launch_angle_error value will be used to limit launch angle.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/16/14 07:51 PM

I hadn't even seen it - yes, it's me being an idiot again.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/17/14 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
Quote:
I also don't know how the game's pretty little head interprets the numbers

I described everything in this page. is something not clear, or you just haven't look in it?

Quote:
Max 20G turns on an antitank missile?

depends on rocket construction, weight, aerodynamics etc. not much confirmed data was found, if some cells not green in GWUT.XLS file feel free to experiment with them.

Quote:
Is sensor FOV modeled or is that quantity I see just launch angle off boresight?

if target out of EO's FOV you will not able to launch weapon. if it in FOV - max_launch_angle_error value will be used to limit launch angle.


Sounds like just allowable launch angle off bore sight. So FOV of the weapon sensor while in flight is not modeled?

What happens if a target moves very fast along a hypothetical weapon sensor FOV axis; is the weapon just limited by the Max G in its ability to turn towards the target and the weapon always "knows" where the target is, assuming target is lased or a radar lock is available on the passive radar missiles?

I would also assume under this line of reasoning that active radar weapons are thus omnipotent after launch, only modified by countermeasures and not movement of the target?

Is Max G related to maximum turning ability or is it maximum tolerance prior to destruction of the missile?
Posted By: Viper1970

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/17/14 10:11 PM

Hello,

top work!! Wan't to thank you all for this outstanding helosim. Had 1.15.0 before and no problems with
flight dynamics. I've upgraded to 1.15.2 and now the cobra and the kiowa begins vibrating and short after
the main rotor is damaged. No extreme flight maneuvers before this happens. All realism settings are set to max.
I know helo flying isn't easy, but I don't think they are so sensitive.
I own alot of helosims, but this never happend to me.
Is there a bug in the new flight dynamics? Or am I incapable of flying helo's at real flight physics ;-)


Thank's alot

yours Sven

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited the ini file with flightmodel 1 and the problem disapeared. Must be something with the flightmodel 2.
I like the new model alot, but could not fly with it cause I alwasy get the main rotor damage.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/17/14 10:51 PM

Are you jumping into the helis as they're flying? If so, bear in mind the flight model doesn't really apply to AI helis (IIRC); they're probably, therefore, flying at or near the helicopter's never-exceed speed. The flight model has been extensively altered since 1.15.0 (see http://eechcentral.simhq.com/index.php?title=Flight_model).
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 03:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Reticuli
Sounds like just allowable launch angle off bore sight. So FOV of the weapon sensor while in flight is not modeled?

What happens if a target moves very fast along a hypothetical weapon sensor FOV axis; is the weapon just limited by the Max G in its ability to turn towards the target and the weapon always "knows" where the target is, assuming target is lased or a radar lock is available on the passive radar missiles?


max_seeker_limit

Originally Posted By: Reticuli
Is Max G related to maximum turning ability or is it maximum tolerance prior to destruction of the missile?


what conditions should it be? hitting brick wall? collision calculations dealing with such things.

V1970, or you flying too fast? rotor damage after exceeding velocity limit is here from the beginning, and it not depends on pilot's actions. or something wrong with your dyn files.
---
completely forget - you can decrease collective to lower the chance of rotor damage
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 09:19 AM

This is actually really quite cool - by cutting down the detonation_radius to 5m from 15, I've made the Romeo Hellfire a little less terrifying, but not much so! It now comes barrelling in and if you don't time it just right, it'll still blow you out of the sky; but if you do, you get the exciting sensation of having the missile whistle past you with only metres to spare.

So basically, I probably should just have listened to thealx...

I was also having a think last night, about how laser-guided munitions work. Since they rely for their operation on the reflection, from the target, of a pulsed laser beam, would disrupting the beam before it hits that target interrupt the missile lock? Cutting a long story short, I was thinking it might be possible to turn away from the launcher and deploy chaff; in theory, if the laser were to be reflected off the chaff, it'd degrade the light reflected from the target, and might give some false reflections too, thus confusing the missile seeker.

However, web searches on that topic pretty much turned up a blank; I don't think anyone's really tried using chaff against a laser designator, or if they have, it hasn't worked...
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 09:22 AM

This is actually really quite cool - by cutting down the detonation_radius to 5m from 15, I've made the Romeo Hellfire a little less terrifying, but not much so! It now comes barrelling in and if you don't time it just right, it'll still blow you out of the sky; but if you do, you get the exciting sensation of having the missile whistle past you with only metres to spare.

So basically, I probably should just have listened to thealx...

Originally Posted By: thealx
I think you will be interested in changing "detonation_radius" value - how far from target missile will be self destructed in case of overshot.


Yep!

I was also having a think last night, about how laser-guided munitions work. Since they rely for their operation on the reflection, from the target, of a pulsed laser beam, would disrupting the beam before it hits that target interrupt the missile lock? Cutting a long story short, I was thinking it might be possible to turn away from the launcher and deploy chaff; in theory, if the laser were to be reflected off the chaff, it'd degrade the light reflected from the target, and might give some false reflections too, thus confusing the missile seeker.

However, web searches on that topic pretty much turned up a blank; I don't think anyone's really tried using chaff against a laser designator, or if they have, it hasn't worked...
Posted By: Staniol

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 09:26 AM

Originally Posted By: NutsnBolts
So basically, I probably should just have listened to thealx...

This! I took note for the future...:)
Originally Posted By: NutsnBolts

I was also having a think last night, about how laser-guided munitions work. Since they rely for their operation on the reflection, from the target, of a pulsed laser beam, would disrupting the beam before it hits that target interrupt the missile lock? Cutting a long story short, I was thinking it might be possible to turn away from the launcher and deploy chaff; in theory, if the laser were to be reflected off the chaff, it'd degrade the light reflected from the target, and might give some false reflections too, thus confusing the missile seeker.

However, web searches on that topic pretty much turned up a blank; I don't think anyone's really tried using chaff against a laser designator, or if they have, it hasn't worked...

I think laser is being guided either manually or automatically based on the silhouette of the target.
I assume chaff is not confusing these (especially manual targeting), like it does with radar.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 09:27 AM

True dat; if the gunner's the one doing the guiding, I guess he'll just keep the pointer on you as you fly out of the chaff. Nope, that idea obviously isn't going to work. Curses! *Shakes fist theatrically*
Posted By: Staniol

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 09:45 AM

Well, choices are limited, either destroy the source or put something big between you and the source (terrain, building, or your wingman... winkngrin )
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 10:07 AM

Remind me never to fly wingman for you! explode
Posted By: Staniol

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 01:01 PM

smile
Ok, Ok, bad Idea.


One more thing.
AFAIK, the Vikhr 'rides' the laser beam, which means that its detector is looking back, so its immune to any kind of jamming done by you, while normal laser guided bombs and missiles can be confused with emitting alternative laser beams. I don't know if vikhr guidance is simulated at that level in eech, but doesn't really matter, as long as we don't have laser emitting drones or ground units for jamming. I don't really know if this kind of jamming is used practically IRL.
(anyway, hiding behind buildings are always fine...:) ).
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 01:39 PM

Quote:
the Vikhr 'rides' the laser beam

same as radio command and wire guided missiles - they staying close to the line between launcher and target. but it's not simulated anyhow and these missiles flying now like semi-active laser guided missiles.
Posted By: Staniol

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 01:54 PM

Yep.
Just read this article, answers all my questions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_guidance

reading
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 05:21 PM

Well, the seeker limits then are way too high over real spec, and very probably max G, too, but some thing like the AGM-114L Hellfire uses radio commands in LOAL, and Vikhr uses laser riding. I don't know how one would account for that over a CCD or frontal laser seeker. If I put +-1.25deg seeker max on a pre-G longer-range Maverick, I don't think it will hit anything. And it seems difficult to find this info for most missiles. According one reference on one forum, the first AGM-114 had an 8 deg total FOV. The AGM-114K appears to be +_7.5deg. Other seekers have wider FOV than height. But as important: it seems to be a fine balance between seeker FOV and max G to allow fixed or slow targets to be hit, but not fast air ones. Finding only one of the two values doesn't do much good. And what to do about the Vikhr spiral? Does it affect this?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 06:52 PM

spiral flightpath is synthetic because of listed reason - there is no true beam riding flightpath calculation. also attitude of the missile doesn't changed so it looks like it's "blown by wind".
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 08:30 PM

Cosmetic. Got it.

Comparing the Max G on the guided missiles in the GWUT to DCS's encyclopedia, just a few of them are too high, but usually not by that much. Everything apparently is supposed to be somewhere between 16G and 30G, depending on the missile. I'm going through and adjusting those that DCS uses, but I'll have to try putting real figures back in on the sensor FOV for the few I can find and see if they actually work. I have been reading highly conflicting figures on the Hellfires. I saw one table talking about +-7.5deg, and then I saw someone else's mod project of some game talking rather authoritatively about the 114K having a 70deg something or other... and not sure if that was +- or full FOV. Someone definitely mentioned that the first Hellfire was 8deg FOV on ED's forums, though.

One curious thing I just read: FLIR can be obscured by missile exhaust such that it's necessary on laser guided missiles that don't like losing the laser to fire them slightly off bore sight sometimes depending on your vertical aspect to the target and where your FLIR is located.

The KA-50 FLIR in EECH I also noticed is very low contrast and hazy. Also very slow to move for some reason.

Originally Posted By: thealx
spiral flightpath is synthetic because of listed reason - there is no true beam riding flightpath calculation. also attitude of the missile doesn't changed so it looks like it's "blown by wind".
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/18/14 10:43 PM

Crap. This gets a lot more complicated than just having to worry about radar guided missiles... which I'm not sure how Max Seeker Angle would translate. With the IR sensor and laser seeker ones, apparently there's a difference between Field of View of the sensor at a given moment and Field of Regard of the sensor while in flight if the missile spins for stability or if the seeker moves around systematically. So the seeker of the Hellfire K seems to have a +-4 degree FOV, but its effective field of regard is supposedly 30 plus or minus.

Field of Regard is time-based, though, so a fast moving target can scoot out of the seeker FOV if it moves fast enough before the guidance can change the missile's direction and not get re-acquired on subsequent passes. A Sidewinder B does 11 deg/s tracking for a total +-25 deg field of regard, but only has a tiny seeker FOV like a lot of these. I can only think that there would have to be some kind of compromise in EECH between the two. Certainly the older laser Hellfire is not a 40 degree seeker. The FOR of the Romeo is just over 100 degrees total... but not time referenced, of course. So I guess +-40 degrees continuous is appropriate, if perhaps generous, on the Romeo. I'm going to try +-20 on the K and L.

I don't see how the EO Mavericks in EECH can possibly work with only a +-1.25 seeker FOV. I suppose they *are* meant for shooting strait at stationary targets.

I have no idea what this should be set for the three Russian antitank missiles below that, though.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/19/14 03:22 AM

Quote:
I'm going through and adjusting those that DCS uses

small advice - never copy or even compare data from other games. because it's just a games.

Quote:
The KA-50 FLIR in EECH


Ka-50 has LLLTV only.

Quote:
FLIR can be obscured by missile exhaust


it happens here, target was unlocked and gunner continued to guide missile manually.

Quote:
I don't see how the EO Mavericks in EECH can possibly work with only a +-1.25 seeker FOV

it's launched by fixwing from long distance, so maybe it will work.
Posted By: xXNightEagleXx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/21/14 08:39 AM

Currently i own dcs helos addons, but i've been watching forward to this game. I would like to know what are the pros and cons of this one against dcs. I know that maybe it is not fair to compare a 1999 (modded) game to a 2010 (updated) game but BMS (also GP4) teaches that under some point of view older games are more complete products than a newer one. Does this game has clickable cockpit? Not because it is a must but rather because that means that i have to memorize a lot of keys....
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/21/14 08:59 AM

there are a lot of comparisons over here (discussions about flight dynamics mostly). I haven't played other games for years so I can't make comparison of current EECH and current DCS.
clickable cockpits are not available yet. I hope this feature will appears soon (for some cockpits at least).
Posted By: xXNightEagleXx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/21/14 09:19 AM

Oh i forgot to ask one thing, is it possible to use the warthog throttle, ms ffb, saitek rudder and trackir in this game? Does it recognize multiple devices?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/21/14 09:33 AM

yes you can. but you will have some troubles with controls configuration - game doesn't support keys mapping, you should use external software.
Posted By: xXNightEagleXx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/21/14 09:39 AM

can you suggest a software ?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/21/14 10:15 AM

T.A.R.G.E.T
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/21/14 03:52 PM

On the note of controls: I may be being stupid, but I've not yet found a way to adjust control sensitivity; I know one can alter the acceleration coefficients of the cyclic, pedal and collective inputs in EECH.ini, but hasn't found a way to just dial the sensitivity down a bit. Currently, merely relaxing the muscles in my foot slightly will alter the pedal input sufficiently to move the heli's nose! Have I missed something?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/21/14 04:31 PM

there is nonlinear-cyclic string that uses function (x*x + x)/2 to get cyclic value. but, nonlinear-pedals string doesn't used anywhere, looks like rudder functions was changed and this feature was left behind.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/21/14 05:19 PM

EECH is worth checking out, but it's a different beast. Don't expect a study sim. It's closer to Lock On than Blackshark. If you ever played Gunship 2000 a long time ago, EECH is reminiscent of the potential you felt was possible in helos sims down the road. No rescue missions, but most of the other stuff is present.

First off, DCS has better sound. You can even hear bullets pinging off your aircraft. EECH has some changes to improve what was already implemented, but still falls short.

DCS has datalinking and a comprehensive autopilot. Switchology galore.

Don't expect detailed damage modeling and apparent physical damage in EECH. Unless you're smoking or your rotor is gone, you won't see signs of damage outside of the systems page and what you can/can't still do with the aircraft.

DCS has more accurate weapons modeling of what's included. ED doesn't seem to include stuff unless they can be fastidious and realistic by their defined threshold... side-stepping for a moment that there is no such thing as a perfectly realistic simulation. Dissent is, let's just say, not really tolerated by them. The idea of the previously-work-in-progress and information-restricted Comanche being in a sim is anathema to ED, let alone now that it's been canceled.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=65402&page=2

I find they do not take shortcuts, which also has its bad adverse effects, too. You don't always need to put every detail in to include something and sometimes can make estimated, appropriate guesses to fill in the gaps or lower computational requirements. But it's a philosophy on their part and EECH just takes a different approach in that respect. The modifications in EECH do make a difference.

DCS has more nuanced and accurate flight models. On the bright side, EECH doesn't require the nose down so much anymore just to maintain 100kts. EECH does allow optional crosscoupling/tail-mixing, which is convenient for all tail rotor helos and appropriate for the Zulu/Viper and Comanche, but it has no tail drive power limit effects when this is active. GlovePIE and PPJoy can also improve EECH (as well as DCS), but I'm apparently alone in my use of them for helo sims for auto trimming and various other nifty things. Trust me, it makes a big difference. GlovePIE and PPJoy even improve EECH's rolling and looping in aerial combat, not to mention the more modern SAS/FBW attitude hold aspects when using a joystick or pressure stick versus a forcefeedback stick like the G940 or an expensive custom pole cyclic. I don't know anyone personally who owns the latter.

EECH has some issues with yaw modeling and finding a fine balance in its more simplified model between aerodynamic streamlining & weatherveining effect and the power of something like the Kamovs' or Comanche's ability to do a hard yaw against the flow. So right now the "pseudo-real" flight model config setting errors in favor of insufficient air effect in the yaw in flight so that a Ka-52 or Rah-66 can flat turn at moderate speeds or fly sideways at low speeds. If you lose a tail rotor, you will begin to spin sooner than accurate, but since that will eventually happen anyway in real life (remember Blackhawk Down), it's the lesser evil.

Weird, counterintuitive yaw effects are still slightly present at low speeds in EECH, but this has been improved. There is another necessary compromise between the nose pointing completely the wrong way initially when banking, having no coordinated turning at all, and having too much coordinated turning effects. The current iteration in EECH is not a bad compromise again with a simplified flight modeling code. You get just a slight amount of coordination when banking in forward flight. To be fair, DCS yaw SAS authority and stability has never been completely to my pleasing, either.

DCS has no low-observable modeling, no air to air weapons on helos, no FLIR on helos (no radar doesn't bother me), and no real dynamic campaign. So DCS missions are repetitive and stale now.

Both seem to often have FOBs and FARPs with no one around at all, but at least EECH sometimes re-equips airfields in a hurry with more SAMs and attack helos... a nice side-effect of the dynamic campaign resupply.

DCS seems to have more infantry with small arms and MANPADs deployed... and it has RPGs. There are missions with a definite human presence. They both still need more infantry, in my opinion, but most of the time EECH campaigns seem to either have none or groups them all together, and those groups don't often defend themselves. I don't know if EECH models visual or auditory detection of aircraft by infantry such that Comanche and even Viper would not be noticed by "soft targets" until closer at night than the other helos in the sim. Would be cool, though.

In EECH, wingmen often want to go off and fight even when you tell them not to, repeatedly asking for assistance. So you need to keep telling them to rejoin or return to base to get away from the enemy. The AI in general is possibly dumber in EECH, but neither sim's wingmen are particularly competent. EECH does not have "cover me" as a wingman command. Giving them a "weapons free" order seems to sort of work for that purpose, assuming they haven't run off to get some threat that briefly painted them in the distance. You have to make use of hold position quite a lot.

Back to the FMs, EECH's lift has been modified recently, so it's harder to maintain altitude than even the last version was, especially without translational lift and out of ground effect (i.e. when hovering). This is even more so when carrying a lot of fuel and ordinance in something like the Hind or when going over tall hills, which is apparently more accurate and keeps you on your toes. A fully loaded Hind apparently can't actually hover in real life, and EECH now represents that. If you don't need the fuel and ordinance, it helps to strip down prior to takeoff or get a rolling start. Some of the helos can still carry more fuel than is realistic, anyway. Finally we have a reason to use the runway! If you haven't noticed yet, I really like the EECH FM balance right now within this limited code.

Right now, Kiowa's torque reading is inaccurate, probably because it has only one engine. Just ignore that. You can get in an Osprey, but it's just the Apache from within with the same FM. Zulu/Viper also has overly-low top speed. You'll recognize approaching Vne or Vno by the vibration and rocking around. I'm not sure if the retreating blade stall and reduced authority is still modeled, but you certainly do vibrate visibly until the rotors rip apart. Watch your IAS when in a dive.

To put things in perspective, I personally would be content with the variety of EECH, the simplified attitude hold flight model of Longbow Anthology (maybe add VRS and over speed to it, and of course LB1/2 can only recognize one controller and CTDs a lot), and the weapons modeling of DCS. The switchology I can take or leave. As for graphics, obviously you've noticed DCS is where it's at if you have the hardware.

Lately I've found EECH more engaging than DCS when using PPJoy & GlovePIE to do the similar rate command & attitude hold thing I usually do with Blackshark 2 and Comanche Gold. With the dynamic campaign, amazing ongoing mods, some tweaks to my GlovePIE scripts to make collective response more realistic and dissuade/punish ham-handednenss on the X65 sidestick (engines begin powering down otherwise! Hit those < >'s), and a few GWUT tweaks, EECH is very enjoyable in spite of the occasional CTD. There are times when it all synergizes in a way that just might be the best helo combat home experience yet.

And I'm thrilled to see an option to turn cheats and time acceleration off now in the config. This increases immersion for me and removes the temptation to game the sim, which inevitably leads to boredom. I'm tempted to also ask for some config mode to require you to be at a FARP or airfield to enter or exit a helo, but I'll stop on that front while I'm ahead ;-)

O.k., I do wish I could have stereoscopic Vision 3D in EECH the way I can with DCS, but I deal with it. Once you get used to that faux depth, it's a little tough to go back.

I have a nitpick with the seeming disappearance of the sans-radar scout Comanche from EECH for some reason and the totally wrong flight test cap in place of the radar "lamp shade" on the rotor mast of the attack version.

You have to be careful if you jump into a flying chopper in EECH, as sometimes the rotor turns off. Very bad over water, but if you have 10 seconds or more of invulnerability in the config file set, it's usually o.k. Occasionally, jumping-in and/or engaging/disengaging autopilot causes hidden pre-existing damage to suddenly present itself. I like to imagine that as random failures and wouldn't entirely call that an unwanted bug, though I don't think it's intentional.

The config file could benefit from a universal damage potential ratio, with 1.0 being the current soft and armor damage everything can absorb. Sometimes objects seem to take far too much punishment before destruction. Cutting everything down by 50% or whatever catches your fancy might be interesting without having to mess with the GWUT considering the delicate balance of comparative advantage various weapons already have.

But again, nitpicks.

EECH is definitely worth trying in spite of its quirks. Don't miss out!
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/21/14 05:22 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
there is nonlinear-cyclic string that uses function (x*x + x)/2 to get cyclic value. but, nonlinear-pedals string doesn't used anywhere, looks like rudder functions was changed and this feature was left behind.


Nonlinear pedals does nothing right now? Hmm... I think I have something like that in some of my GlovePIE scripts. I'll have to see if it's in the main EECH one I'm using. On a related note, it's strange that in my Saitek pedals control panel there is no linearity slider.

------------

It was in some of my Comanche Gold PIE scripts that I had nonlinear stuff worked in. This is what I use:

var.nlzrots = sign(var.pedalfix)
var.nlzrotm = abs(var.pedalfix)^(1.3)
var.nlzrot = var.nlzrotm * var.nlzrots

Then I use the var.nlzrot as the rudder axis later to translate into the PPJoy axis or mix it with a rotary knob for trim on the X65 throttle. It will be nice to get some finesse around the center when crosscoupling is turned on in EECH.

Oh, EECH also requires a pedal fix for some reason. I think another sim or two also required it:

if joystick1.zrot = 0 then {
var.pedalfix = -1
else
var.pedalfix = joystick1.zrot
}

So I'll have to put the var.nlzrot in there instead of joystick1.zrot.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/21/14 06:00 PM

Yeah, this works nicely. Much more resolution of control around the center of the pedals. Less overcompensation and twitchiness in the yaw. This particular GlovePIE script is without the registry hack to deactivate the X65 twist. I use that hack for Falcon 4 BMS to control radar with the mouse stick and sometimes just leave implemented. Anyway, I have EECH PIEs for that reg hack, too. This is also with the pedals added to the X65 HOTAS.

PPJoy virtual stick assignments

Axis 1 (Analog 0): X Axis
Axis 2 (Analog 1): Y Axis
Axis 3 (Analog 2): Z Axis
Axis 4 (Analog 3): X Rotation
Axis 5 (Analog 4): Y Rotation
Axis 6 (Analog 5): Z Rotation
Axis 7 (Analog 6): Slider

Click to reveal..



var.tolerance = 1 - (abs(joystick1.zrotation) / 4 )
var.warning = .75 - (abs(joystick1.zrotation) / 4 )

if var.overtorque < 20 and Smooth(PPJoy1.Analog2, 100) > 0.5 then begin {
var.overtorque = var.overtorque + 1 * (Smooth(PPJoy1.Analog2, 100) - 0.5)
if var.overtorque > 20 begin {
Say "Overtorque, Engine Shutdown"
type("<")
type(">")
type("<")
type(">")
type("<")
type(">")
type("<")
type(">")
type("<")
type(">")
} end
else if var.overtorque > 0 and Smooth(PPJoy1.Analog2, 100) < 0.2 then var.overtorque = 0
}


if shift+t then begin {
var.xhold = 0
var.yhold = 0

if joystick1.zrot = 0 then {
var.pedalfix = -1
else
var.pedalfix = joystick1.zrot
}

PPJoy1.Analog5 = Joystick2.slider/2 + (var.pedalfix)

}

var.xchange = abs(Smooth(PPJoy1.Analog0, 20) - PPJoy1.Analog0)
var.ychange = abs(Smooth(PPJoy1.Analog1, 20) - PPJoy1.Analog1)

if var.xchange > var.warning or var.ychange > var.warning then begin {
BeepDefault

}

if var.xchange > var.tolerance or var.ychange > var.tolerance then begin {
Say "Handling Limits, Engine Shutdown"
type("<")
type(">")
type("<")
type(">")
type("<")
type(">")
type("<")
type(">")
type("<")
type(">")
}


if joystick1.zrot = 0 then {
var.pedalfix = -1
else
var.pedalfix = joystick1.zrot
}

var.nlzrots = sign(var.pedalfix)
var.nlzrotm = abs(var.pedalfix)^(1.3)
var.nlzrot = var.nlzrotm * var.nlzrots


var.yhold = EnsureRange(Joystick2.y/ 30 + var.yhold, -.75, .75)
PPJoy1.Analog1 = var.yhold + Joystick2.y
var.xhold = EnsureRange(Joystick2.x / 30 + var.xhold, -.70, .70)
PPJoy1.Analog0 = var.xhold + Joystick2.x

var.collchange = abs(Smooth(PPJoy1.Analog2, 100) - PPJoy1.Analog2)

PPJoy1.Analog2 = Smooth(Joystick2.z - abs(Smooth(Joystick2.z, 100) - Joystick2.z), 0)
PPJoy1.Analog5 = Joystick2.yrot/2 + var.nlzrot

var.bank = PPJoy1.Analog0
var.pitch = PPJoy1.Analog1
var.collective = PPJoy1.Analog2
var.yaw = PPJoy1.Analog5



Here's my current GWUT. The Comanche XM301 gun and CWIS were both too wide dispersion based on their specs... assuming I did the conversions correctly. Some of the Hellfire specs were off, and various other weapons were tweaked. Let me know if I made any typos.

https://app.box.com/s/f30f6urax1fj58qjc6vh

Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/22/14 03:24 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx


>>The KA-50 FLIR in EECH

Ka-50 has LLLTV only.


Sorry, meant TV. Looks like a scrim over it even in daylight. Traditional optics and FLIR seems ok, though. An attempt to make it useless at night?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/22/14 03:37 PM

Quote:
An attempt to make it useless at night?

yes, also filter part of the colors. I haven't find the way to make true BW picture so this attempt can be counted like unsuccessful. if pixel shaders will be available after DX9 improvements will be finished, it will be quite easy to make correct recoloring effects for EO screens.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/22/14 05:55 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
Quote:
An attempt to make it useless at night?

yes, also filter part of the colors. I haven't find the way to make true BW picture so this attempt can be counted like unsuccessful. if pixel shaders will be available after DX9 improvements will be finished, it will be quite easy to make correct recoloring effects for EO screens.


Is there a way to keep the funky color and low-light wash-out effects while making it look less like there's water or Vaseline all over the lens, or is that unavoidable with this method?

By the way, I'm very impressed that someone was able to deactivate auto-FLIR acquisition on some of the older helos like the Whiskey Cobra. I think that's what I noticed.

Not sure what I think about the inability to launch weapons like rockets without an actual target identified and locked. Seems like it should work just when locked to any point on the ground. But there's always the helmet mode.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/22/14 06:47 PM

no, it uses same NIGHT_VISION texture to make white noise on the screen. changing this file will also affect low light and weather effects.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/22/14 09:31 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
no, it uses same NIGHT_VISION texture to make white noise on the screen. changing this file will also affect low light and weather effects.


O.k.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/24/14 02:56 AM

Does the weapon lookup utilize the weapon name in the GWUT or just the number in the first column? If I change something from HEI to APDS, will that mess up the ability of the sim to find the weapon in the GWUT?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/24/14 05:22 PM

index number is only important. name is for information purposes only, feel free to change.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/25/14 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
index number is only important. name is for information purposes only, feel free to change.


Hmm... Now I need to figure out what I messed up in one of the campaigns I was running.

Assuming the GWUT data is not stored in the campaign and the campaign does not care that you've changed the GWUT in a way that does not prevent the GWUT from being valid anymore, such as the spacing and punctuation...

Can running a Free Flight in the same theater as the campaign while automatic saves are switched on in the EECH.ini cause something to get messed up in a saved campaign's AUTOSAVE file?

I thought the changing of a GWUT had messed up something, but you're saying it should not have.

What I experienced upon going back into the campaign was a complete lack of aggression by enemy forces, no weapon damage experienced by me, and unlimited ammo. I decimated an entire airfield loaded with SAMs and AAA before I was forced to admit something was wrong. The prior day I had flow a Free Flight mission in that theater with those cheats just for testing purposes. Could an AUTOSAVE have occurred over the campaign's save file or some other corruption of the campaign have been caused by this Free Flight?

I seem to remember something similar to this happening a very long time ago, but only to the extent that I realized a Free Flight was taking place in my saved campaign. I don't remember there being cheats carrying over into the campaign.

And I do have cheats turned off in the EECH.ini, though obviously I don't expect that carries over into Free Flight and it doesn't. If I create a new campaign, at least in another theater, normal damage, weapons effects, and aggression occurs as expected.

Thanks.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/25/14 06:24 PM

save system is very fragile - sometimes you can't use old saves even if you changed some eech.ini values, GWUT modifications definitely can make troubles. can't say is weapon name saving anywhere or not, but it's possible - in this case changing weapon name will corrupt whole save file or part of it. free flight and campaign mission and save files are in different folders, so I don't think they can affect each other anyhow.
Posted By: xXNightEagleXx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/26/14 10:57 AM

I'm struggling to setup the collective, even if i create a curve in T.A.R.G.E.T somehow it gets bypassed by the game. At the moment it is very useless i have to pull almost all the throttle to lift and the remained is just too short so it is hard to fine tune the collective once airbone. Any suggestion?


Solved
Posted By: xXNightEagleXx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/26/14 11:41 PM

Ok solved all problem with the axis but now i'm struggling to get used to this game since there is no tutorial or purpose manual. Any source of info suggested?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/27/14 03:10 AM

http://eechcentral.simhq.com/index.php?title=Main_Page -> Comanche Hokum manual and strategy guide at right bottom corner.
Posted By: Viper1970

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/27/14 09:29 AM

Hello,

thanks for your answers. I haven't had much time the last few day's for watching the forum and flying.
I turned down the model to type 1. Don't know if type 2 is more realistic, cause I'm no real chopper-pilot,
but I think it's a bit to unforgiveable.

I jumped in the heli on ground dircetly after the "what to fly" screen.

Model 2 feels more real. but the main rotor damage makes it a bit to challenging to fly. Something between
the two models is what I would prefer.

Is there a way to turn off (or better turn down) the mainrotor damage in model 2? Or some variable to play with?

Thanks to all

Sven
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/27/14 01:13 PM

you can change "drag_z modifier" value in dynamics files at "common\data\dynamics" folder (every heli has it's own config file). by increasing front drag force you will decrease maximum speed of helicopter, it will be harder to reach critical point. also you can decrease collective and raise nose a bit right after helicopter start to shake, this trick works well for me.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/27/14 06:04 PM

Here's my latest GWUT release with some KE calculations done compared to other rounds in the sim for the American naval CIWS using a solid round for sabot. I'm also messing around with setting the m197 as using the "antiaircraft" SAPHEI "faster, hotter, more accurate" round compared to the m56. I don't know if that setting affects ability to kill semiarmored ground vehicles, though.

https://app.box.com/s/f30f6urax1fj58qjc6vh

Edit: the US AIMs' minimum engagement ranges were wrong. They should be about 2500km prior to the 9X and 120D, which is one of the reasons for the benefit of the PGU-28 rounds on the Zulu, as they close the gap between the Sidewinder and the gun. Fixed that and uploaded again.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/27/14 06:32 PM

warhead_type=7 is special type that makes possible to use this weapon against missiles, also effectiveness against airborne targets is increased (timer fuse is used for them). it will be wise to use it for naval AA arms only.
about CIWS - I know that naval version uses AP rounds, ground forces - HE. but, collision calculations too poor to make possible AP rounds hit any missile (small and fast target), so HE used instead.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/27/14 09:20 PM

I see. I'll put the CIWS back to the HE 7.

Is SAPHEI appropriate to be listed as warhead type 5 or is 6 (general/generic HE?) better, considering dual purpose usually means something like a combo shaped charge and fragmentary HE? The PGU-28 uses a slight delay between the fuze and the detonation of the incendiary in the back, but I don't know if that is far less than the sort of timer fuze you're talking about for naval guns that I assume is combined with proximity detonation (Edit: On the proximity detonation from checking your original GWUT, I don't see it on the CIWSs).

In the meantime, here's the fixed GWUT:

https://app.box.com/s/f30f6urax1fj58qjc6vh
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/28/14 12:50 AM

My wingman closes into nearly gun range to fire Hellfires.

Also, the artillery fire support missions I called in appear to have been listed as untasked BAI missions. Can MLRS or guns be assigned to that if within range? EECH appears to take an inordinate amount of time to automatically assign missions, even air ones. Units that are seemingly ready just seem to sit there. I had a site I needed shelling and I had multiple ground fire support from various angles just doing nothing. If we're talking air assets, I can speed their tasking up by assigning missions and quitting them. But there's no way to do that with ground assets. Other than units that are being repaired or resting or something, what other constraints are preventing missions from being tasked? How does one see the state of asset groups (like a battery and its support vehicles). Does it say somewhere what's going on with them like FARPs will list whether they're operational and how much supplies?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/28/14 07:21 AM

I think SAPHEI will be more close to warhead type 5 (HEDP). warhead type from 4 to 6 affects damage range curves only so you can choose what type is more suitable for you.

unguided weapons has no target check after they was launched (due to performance reasons), so it's impossible to make proper proximity fuse for shells, detonation_radius value has no effect on them. like alternative time fuse was added for AA weapons - time to impact is calculating using target speed and weapon ballistics characteristics. I just thought that only ground forces can use these weapons against missiles so theoretically it will be safe to use this type for aircrafts - shells should explode close to target. of course you will be not able to change damage range curves, but maybe next time more flexible way do deal with such situations will appears. and don't forget to set "flight_profile_or_self_destr=3" or they will just dissapear instead of detonate.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/28/14 03:24 PM

How much of a performance hit were we talking about with such a check box?

Do the guided weapons also need the flight profile or self destruct thing switched to 3 or else they just disappear?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/28/14 04:35 PM

have no idea. I think there is will be no "hit", but I know than simpler calculations than better for the game.

not necessary until missile's cruise time value is enough to loose velocity and hit the ground. exception is some ATA missiles that explode right after motor burns out.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/28/14 06:29 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
have no idea. I think there is will be no "hit", but I know than simpler calculations than better for the game.

not necessary until missile's cruise time value is enough to loose velocity and hit the ground. exception is some ATA missiles that explode right after motor burns out.


Do the Romeo Hellfire and Vikhr need to be on 3 in order for their proximity detonations to work? There appear to be custom flight profile destruct values for them, so I assume not. But Romeo is new. Just thought I'd check.

I've set the American CIWS to 3.

https://app.box.com/s/f30f6urax1fj58qjc6vh
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/28/14 07:28 PM

flight_profile_or_self_destr=3 detonate missile or shell when it's lifetime >= (cruise time + boost time). detonation_radius will detonate guided weapon (not just make lifetime = (cruise time + boost time)) when it close enough to it's target, and it doesn't matter what time values is. dynamic cruise time value has warhead types 7 and 8 - it's calculated right before launch, their cruise time values in GWUT are ignored.

Quote:
I've set the American CIWS to 3.

it lost capability to attack missiles.
misunderstood, thought you talking about warhead
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/28/14 08:50 PM

Got a crash from another AUTOSAVE but without me having made any changes to the GWUT since saving it.

COMM_MAN: Server Version No. 1919252047, Client Version No. 271
DIRECTP: DirectPlay::DestroyPlayer: DPERR_INVALIDPLAYER @ 29.80
Released DirectDraw - references left: 166 @ 29.80
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/28/14 11:43 PM

Worked for a little while, now:

VIPER_MFD_LOCATION_PILOT_LHS = VIPER_MFD_MODE_ASE @ 161.10
VIPER_MFD_LOCATION_PILOT_RHS = VIPER_MFD_MODE_TSD @ 161.10
VIPER_MFD_LOCATION_CO_PILOT_LHS = VIPER_MFD_MODE_MISSION @ 161.10
VIPER_MFD_LOCATION_CO_PILOT_RHS = VIPER_MFD_MODE_TSD @ 161.10
Creating user texture screen: 256, 256 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.10
Creating user texture screen: 256, 256 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.10
Creating user texture screen: 256, 256 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.10
Creating user texture screen: 256, 256 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.20
Creating user texture screen: 256, 256 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.20
Creating user texture screen: 256, 256 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.20
Creating user texture screen: 128, 128 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.20
Creating user texture screen: 128, 128 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.20
Creating user texture screen: 128, 128 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.20
Creating user texture screen: 128, 128 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.20
Creating user texture screen: 128, 128 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.20
Creating user texture screen: 128, 128 ( 0 mipmaps ) ( 0 render to ) @ 161.20
CAMERA_ACTION_CHASE @ 161.20
Unable to get track length @ 161.20
DYNAMICS: added flight path data [100607.195313, 72785.242188] action ACTION_AUTOPILOT_NAVIGATING @ 161.20
************************************ FATAL ***********************************
ASSERT current_face_index_offset < ( number_of_surface_points * NUMBER_OF_INDICES_PER_SLOT_FACTOR ) (J:\EECH\git\eech-view2master\modules\3d\3dobjvb.c:1838)
Released DirectDraw - references left: 166 @ 161.50
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/29/14 06:31 AM

Quote:
COMM_MAN: Server Version No. 1919252047, Client Version No. 271

this one happens when some value (like position, timers or velocity etc.) overflow it's limit available for saving. most important here not crash itself, but saving process - debug exe (or cohokum exe with debug_log enabled) will catch problem value. most valuable will be previous save that successfully saved - I will be able to replicate this situation, are you using "saves_copies" feature?

Quote:
ASSERT current_face_index_offset < ( number_of_surface_points * NUMBER_OF_INDICES_PER_SLOT_FACTOR ) (J:\EECH\git\eech-view2master\modules\3d\3dobjvb.c:1838)

it's AH1-Z cockpit rendering issue. I didn't tried to fix it because it works without problem in commercial build.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/29/14 03:06 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
Quote:
COMM_MAN: Server Version No. 1919252047, Client Version No. 271

this one happens when some value (like position, timers or velocity etc.) overflow it's limit available for saving. most important here not crash itself, but saving process - debug exe (or cohokum exe with debug_log enabled) will catch problem value. most valuable will be previous save that successfully saved - I will be able to replicate this situation, are you using "saves_copies" feature?

Quote:
ASSERT current_face_index_offset < ( number_of_surface_points * NUMBER_OF_INDICES_PER_SLOT_FACTOR ) (J:\EECH\git\eech-view2master\modules\3d\3dobjvb.c:1838)

it's AH1-Z cockpit rendering issue. I didn't tried to fix it because it works without problem in commercial build.


I'm not using saves copies feature. I didn't know about that. I will turn it on. Thanks.

I'm confused by what you mean by "commercial build".

---

I also noticed ground units aren't maneuvering much. Is sleep or rest or repair periods possibly responsible for units staying put?

Are groups of infantry supposed to fight back. They just stood there as I attack them. I was able to go rearm, come back, and they were still there, hadn't retreated, and again didn't fight back.

On the artillery, is there a campaign where I can test calling in artillery? I'm wondering if terrain is obstructing shots and that's why they're never getting done.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/29/14 03:35 PM

Quote:
I'm confused by what you mean by "commercial build".

it's COHOKUM.EXE

Quote:
I also noticed ground units aren't maneuvering much

they even called in the code "routed vehicles". they moving from point A to point B and waiting until death.

Quote:
Are groups of infantry supposed to fight back

I don't know. they got weapons, but I decide to not include magitek's infantry mod that creates patrols everywhere because it's too raw and I had no time to make any tests. I think it's possible to make them attack soft targets by fixing GWUT parameters (GROUP and TASK sections). I'm planning to finish aggressive infantry and make side gunners for helis at one time.

Quote:
On the artillery, is there a campaign where I can test calling in artillery? I'm wondering if terrain is obstructing shots and that's why they're never getting done.

artillery has no LOS check if range more than 5 or 8 km (don't remember), so terrain shouldn't be a problem (sometimes shells can't reach target and hit hills). most of the time they are reloading - vehicles has unlimited ammo, but than less ammo has group than more time delay value. when I checked code and it looks ok I made several tries and accidentally get positive answer on my request for support, but I don't remember what map was that.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/29/14 04:53 PM

I get positive answers too sometimes, but the shots never come. It appeared to create BAI missions.

I assume you guys dumped/modded the Scout Comanche for/to the Kiowa, correct? Because I don't see the scout one present and any time I go back into a mission later with the Comanche, it has the wing stubs back on. Do those wing stubs lower the stealth even if no hard points are attached? Opening the bay doors and the gear also each individually increases radar cross section as well, right?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/29/14 05:52 PM

Quote:
Because I don't see the scout one present and any time I go back into a mission later with the Comanche, it has the wing stubs back on

Comanche has now stub wings for recon missions by default, or you talking about some specific situation?

Quote:
Do those wing stubs lower the stealth even if no hard points are attached? Opening the bay doors and the gear also each individually increases radar cross section as well

with stub wings attached Comanche has no stealth bonus. without wings raised gears decrease stealth factor 50%, closed bay doors 35%. can't say how correct calculations are, maybe it's just a linear modifier of recognition range but not RCS.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/29/14 07:49 PM

I thought there was a Comanche "Scout" -- as in scout-only -- version in EECH that had no radar and no stub wings and was listed in groups on the map screen under "Scout". Now we have Kiowa's listed under scout, but no Comanche pure scout helos. The only Comanche I see is under Scout/Attack. Am I remembering incorrectly?

If I remove the external stores in the loadout screen, the wings disappear. If I save, exit, and come back into the saved game the stub wings are back on that Comanche. Considering there seems to be either no stealth on the Comanche right now or it often does not seem to be working, I'm thinking the stub wings might not be showing but the aircraft is still being treated by the sim as if it has them.

I'm also still having issues with objects showing up in the helmet display's FLIR, but not in the FLIR sensor due to fog effects or something. You can't automatically detect objects unless you have used the radar first or are very close to them.

Finally, do the navigation lights on the AI aircraft increase detection probability?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/29/14 08:19 PM

Quote:
I thought there was a Comanche "Scout" -- as in scout-only -- version in EECH that had no radar and no stub wings and was listed in groups on the map screen under "Scout"

I know nothing about it. in 1.15 Comanche already had radar and attachable stub wings whatever objectives are.

Quote:
Considering there seems to be either no stealth on the Comanche right now

now I see. looks like some bug with helicopter initialization at game loading. both stealth calculation and visual model rendering uses same function to check stub wings state, so after loading it looses stealth bonus indeed.

Quote:
I'm also still having issues with objects showing up in the helmet display's FLIR, but not in the FLIR sensor due to fog effects or something

screenshots will be useful, there is a lot of problems with rendering, can't say what exactly you talking about.

Quote:
Finally, do the navigation lights on the AI aircraft increase detection probability?

I think they not.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 06/29/14 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx

Quote:
I'm also still having issues with objects showing up in the helmet display's FLIR, but not in the FLIR sensor due to fog effects or something


screenshots will be useful, there is a lot of problems with rendering, can't say what exactly you talking about.


http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3963449/Re:_EECH_1.15.2_update_availab#Post3963449

Pretty similar to this, just sometimes the PNVS/NV FLIR even being on isn't enough. It's like the haze is too intrusive. I get that FLIR should be more faint at longer ranges (though admittedly fire, explosions, muzzle flashes, and tracers should be blooming, which they're not), but for some reason on the sensor FLIR it's either totally opaque or too obscuring sooner than the helmet. I have the ranges in the ini maxed on both. Is it possibly an issue of reduced contrast on some EO/FLIR mod that is presenting as an apparent complete absence of objects too early at longer ranges?

And I don't know if cheats-to-off is affecting anything, but auto detect on EO/FLIR/DTV is really bad and usually doesn't kick in unless I'm hitting Next Target to prompt it or something. The copilot alerts me and I have to hit next target in the FLIR for it to work, and of course at rather closer ranges than is safe. If I manually detect (i.e. pass the sensor crosshair over the object(s)) when ground stabilized or use the radar briefly, then it seems to be catalogued and I can flip between targets, but then the enemy supernaturally responds to me with instantaneous response time and perfect directionality.

Speaking of targets, radar previous and next targets seem to be doing the same thing. If you skip over an Enemy Sam, you have to cycle back through all the targets regardless of which key you use. I even checked my X65 profile and I did have them mapped properly.

Originally Posted By: thealx

Quote:
[quote]Considering there seems to be either no stealth on the Comanche right now

now I see. looks like some bug with helicopter initialization at game loading. both stealth calculation and visual model rendering uses same function to check stub wings state, so after loading it looses stealth bonus indeed.


O.k, that's one bug, obviously. But you're certain that 100% of the time when the wing stubs are temporarily not present but the sim still thinks it's a scout/attack Comanche that the LO characteristics are preserved until you re-enter the sim and the wing stubs re-appear?

Also, you mentioned 35% when the bay doors are open. Do you mean you have a 50% reduction in radar detectability in the wingless Comanche that switches to a 35% reduction when open OR to 35% total detectability when open OR you get 35% less detection than 50% (85% total) without wings and with the bay doors closed?

I assume IR signature reduction is not compromised when the wings or bay doors come into play, but what about with an engine fire?

Does the sim model auditory detection by infantry, lite vehicles, etc?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/01/14 05:29 PM

Reticuli, are you talking about mode without cockpit graphics only? if so - it wasn't updated for long time and I missed it too, noticed that everything is wrong only after you posted that screens. screen with FLIR is just green NV for example, so it's pointless to discuss issues that caused by mess in the scripts for different cockpit rendering. if not - I need more screens, info about weather conditions etc. because both objects visibility and targets recognition works fine for me (in reasonable limits at least).

Quote:
Also, you mentioned 35% when the bay doors are open. Do you mean you have a 50% reduction in radar detectability in the wingless Comanche that switches to a 35% reduction when open OR to 35% total detectability when open OR you get 35% less detection than 50% (85% total) without wings and with the bay doors closed?

are you serious?))
wings presents OR both bay opened and gears retracted comanche has no stealth advantage
without wings, gears retracted, bay opened stealth modifier value 0.5,
without wings, gears extended, bay closed stealth modifier value 0.65,
without wings, gears retracted, bay closed stealth modifier value 0.15


Quote:
I assume IR signature reduction is not compromised when the wings or bay doors come into play, but what about with an engine fire?

there is no temperature calculations, even synthetic.

Quote:
Does the sim model auditory detection by infantry, lite vehicles, etc?

don't know, but it's unlikely.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/03/14 12:15 AM

Retracted and raised usually mean the same thing in English when talking landing gear. I assume you mean "retracted" as gear up, and "raised" as gear down or extended. Thanks.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/03/14 03:17 AM

yeah, you are right.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/03/14 07:14 AM

Is there any value to quickly closing the bay doors after launching, or is that pretty much giving your position away, so it doesn't matter? I notice that the time to impact data disappears when you do that, so there's some incentive to keep them open. But I don't know if detection is instantaneous and continuous, or if it's delayed and/or can be broken or interrupted.
Posted By: Viper1970

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/03/14 10:33 AM

Many thanks for your very detailed answer. I will test the things you told. Unfortunately I haven't had much time for flying. I had much trouble in my relationship. banghead No it's over..., more time for flying thumbsup
Posted By: SimonAlonso

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/03/14 11:14 AM

Does Magitec have an infantry mod?
I didn't know nothing about it.
Can I have it, I would like to test it.
Thanks
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/03/14 07:03 PM

Quote:
Is there any value to quickly closing the bay doors after launching, or is that pretty much giving your position away, so it doesn't matter?

I think if you was spotted nothing will help you to hide again. but it's just game experience, right now I have no time to analyze source code, maybe there are some ticks.

Originally Posted By: V1970
No it's over..., more time for flying thumbsup

it was wise decision - choose EECH! biggrin biggrin biggrin

Quote:
Does Magitec have an infantry mod?

yes, but it's on early testing stage. I can make test version with his infantry changes and current troops weapons (in his version they are shooting from 12.7mm, dangerous fellas) but I can't say when it will be ready.
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/05/14 04:42 PM

Hi, a little update to the current GWUT1152:
Increased power output for AH64A/D and uh60L, AGM114K Hellfire II updated to the K2A version(HEAT with external blast fragmentation sleeve), TOW updated to the F version (increased armor penetration capability and max range) and increased radar capabilities for AH64D and KA52.

http://speedy.sh/YaG9j/GWUT1152.CSV
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/05/14 06:51 PM

I really like how difficult it is to make it up mountains without further modifications. That's one of the reasons for the Apache E's engine upgrades. Otherwise they're like a lumbering RV at those altitudes and you have to go through the valleys preferably. It also forces you to utilize translational lift and/or ground effect when climbing and not to waste torque by doing so either in a hover or at very high speed. And of course there's real benefit to reducing fuel weight and carrying less ordinance. The fact you cannot hover in a fully-loaded Hind makes me think thealx may have nailed the air lift values, even if it is a lot more work to fly.

Originally Posted By: SKIP2008
Hi, a little update to the current GWUT1152:
Increased power output for AH64A/D and uh60L, AGM114K Hellfire II updated to the K2A version(HEAT with external blast fragmentation sleeve), TOW updated to the F version (increased armor penetration capability and max range) and increased radar capabilities for AH64D and KA52.

http://speedy.sh/YaG9j/GWUT1152.CSV


Anyone know of a way to increase the range allowed for transmitting recon data?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/06/14 01:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Reticuli
Anyone know of a way to increase the range allowed for transmitting recon data?


[WAYPOINTS] / 21 Recon / hc_action_radius (current value 2000)
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/06/14 02:44 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
Originally Posted By: Reticuli
Anyone know of a way to increase the range allowed for transmitting recon data?


[WAYPOINTS] / 21 Recon / hc_action_radius (current value 2000)


Cool, thanks man. Are there any explanations for the non-weapons portion of the GWUT anywhere?

Any chance we'll ever get brake pedal axis assignments?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/06/14 03:00 PM

there is some comments in the code, never saw proper explanations anywhere.

of course it can be done someday, if we not talking about probability percentage =)
are US helicopters has separated wheel brakes in real? on my opinion they useless because tail rotor make turns much easier.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/06/14 03:09 PM

As far as recon distance, any idea what the minimum sensor detection distance is for AI units involved in recon missions? If I put it at 4000 meters, I'm wondering if the AI will fly to within 4000m of X, not detect anything automatically, and then head back to home base. So I guess I'm wondering at what range will any unit sent on a recon mission cause that shaded area on the map to become lit up? Is this even relevant?

What about a simple dot or something on the god's eye TSD MFD to show what point your EO/FLIR/DTV/mast is currently pointed at? Having something like that on the HUD too I would assume would be harder.

Any way to get pre-briefed (already known from the map screen) threat circles to show up on the TSD, too? I don't think the objects themselves would be necessary. That seems like a conundrum, because you don't want helos to fire on things they haven't detected themselves yet. Are the threat circles separate from the emitting object or tied together inextricably?

Oh, and continuing to show missile time to impact even when the bay doors are closed. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/06/14 04:07 PM

Quote:
If I put it at 4000 meters, I'm wondering if the AI will fly to within 4000m of X, not detect anything automatically

I guess it's much simpler - when "transmit recon" activated game engine calculates current keysite state and makes proper mission, doesn't matter how much units was detected by recon chopper.
Quote:
Are the threat circles separate from the emitting object or tied together inextricably?

I didn't make any changes in recognition functions so right now I don't even know how this stuff works.
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/07/14 08:14 AM

Hi Reticuli do you mean something like these?


Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/07/14 07:37 PM

Originally Posted By: SKIP2008
Hi Reticuli do you mean something like these?





What's this a response to?
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/08/14 07:03 AM

Reticuli, it refers about this:




What about a simple dot or something on the god's eye TSD MFD to show what point your EO/FLIR/DTV/mast is currently pointed at? Having something like that on the HUD too I would assume would be harder.


Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/08/14 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By: SKIP2008
Reticuli, it refers about this:




What about a simple dot or something on the god's eye TSD MFD to show what point your EO/FLIR/DTV/mast is currently pointed at? Having something like that on the HUD too I would assume would be harder.




O.k. Is it the b&w second photo you're referring to with the dashed cross? I don't see a marker on the top green one. EO/Flir/TV markers of some kind on the TSD or HUD would be nice; both would be great. I don't know if it's a resolution issue or something with fog or terrain rendering that causes some stuff not to show up in the EO/FLIR/TV MFD, but often I seem to find it easier to make out distant objects with the HUD. Also being able to reference position with waypoints, especially ones I've set myself, would be very useful. In the case of the HUD, it's possible to use the gun crosshair for this purpose, but in the Comanche that reveals your position easily since gun is tied to bay doors. I think a line on the TSD for that purpose might be useful, that way you can also see if your view is over the horizon. A dashed crosshair or diamond or whatever would work for the HUD.
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/09/14 06:57 AM

Hi Reticuli, in the top photo there are two small dots in the TADS constraint box, i was referring both but i think that the second photo is better. In the meanwhile i've found another photo:


Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/10/14 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By: SKIP2008
Hi Reticuli, in the top photo there are two small dots in the TADS constraint box, i was referring both but i think that the second photo is better. In the meanwhile i've found another photo:




I don't think dots in the TADs constraint box are particularly useful except seeing what your distance is from a constraint "edge" (which we already have with the square within a square) or showing where designated targets are within that range. I'm definitely in-favor of some kind of markers on both the TSD and the larger HUD view to have a ground reference to the real helmet FLIR & terrain views as well as other objects & waypoints on the TSD. Thanks.
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/11/14 08:03 AM

Reticuli i'm not sure but maybe Arneh done something like this in his apache avionics update.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/12/14 11:59 AM

Reticuli - your GlovePie fix for altering yaw and such, is this going to be patched into the EECH engine proper, or is it exclusively a GlovePie option for the foreseeable future? I haven't tried it yet, just curious.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/12/14 03:22 PM

Originally Posted By: NutsnBolts
Reticuli - your GlovePie fix for altering yaw and such, is this going to be patched into the EECH engine proper, or is it exclusively a GlovePie option for the foreseeable future? I haven't tried it yet, just curious.


I have no idea. I'm not one of the EECH modders.

I think the EECH flight model is so simple that you would have to slap the GlovePIE code (with I assume syntax translated) on top of the existing stuff, which would result in the exact same outcome. It's not like X-Plane's flight model where you're getting background flight dynamics, and you can model a feedback system between the orientation of the aircraft, your inputs, and what signals are sent through to the control surfaces or rotors. To get seamless LB2-like AC-RC/AH (attitude command & rate command / attitude hold) like in the Comanche and Zulu primary flight laws (the real choppers also had/have cruising IAS-command and transition/hover wings-leveling flight laws, among other modes) would require an entire re-write of the EECH flight model and it would not necessarily be more sophisticated and hi-fi feeling than the current "pseudo-real" one. And that would probably upset whoever's using Logitech G940 or a pole cyclic. They must be out there. The combination of the EECH FM and the PPJoy/GlovePIE system, whether it is separate or translated and integrated into EECH, increases the complexity and nuance, not to mention taking care of the trimming automatically and fluidly. It's rough and crude, but I think that's a good thing considering how sparse, simplistic, and neat & tidy the EECH flight model feels by default.

And if you're heavy-handed, I worked some stuff in where the engines will throttle down and you have to hit <> rapidly to fix it. Most people would probably comment those lines out, but I love it.

You install PPJoy, create a virtual joystick with the axis assignments I mention (may need to be tweaked depending on the HOTAS), load up the respective script you want, assign the PPJoy axis in EECH. Go fly. With EECH, you don't even have to tell Windows what your primary joystick is.

My most recent scripts are not on AVsim, yet, so you can find them on simhq in the respective threads I copied them into for EECH and Comanche. I think the Blackshark 1/2 script I use is basically the same already uploaded.

I also have a really simple manual trimming script I came up with for FSX and X-Plane helos (no go for SAR 4, which is like LB2 and bypasses DirectX stick assignments), though X-Plane does allow a very slow auto trimming of pitch loads option in Planemaker, which I usually use. As one person put it, it makes Comanche and Enhanced Apache in X-Plane fly like small planes almost. You still have to use your coolie hat to trim the roll and maybe use a rotary for trimming yaw, but it's nice and I was happy Austin granted that feature request. Oh! And I worked into the Artificial Stability system on them a way to get a speed limiting thing that slightly resembles the pitch up moment of RBS! At the very least, it's a fake safety feature... heh heh. I think X-Plane now has VRS, too.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 07/26/14 12:19 AM

I'd really like to try this combination out on my EECH install, albeit with the engine spin-down bit dummied out - reason being that I mainly fly the Mi-24, and that uses Alt/+ and Alt/- to control its dual throttle, rather than the normal throttle controls. I have a different HOTAS setup from yours (Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS X), so I shall give that a go as soon as I feel I understand what the hell I'm meant to be doing! Still, can't break the game I guess.

Might I suggest sticking up a separate thread for it?

On a related note, just for kicks, I tried switching nonlinear pedal to 0. As I expected, it made no difference; still, I felt I should eliminate the possibility.
Posted By: SimonAlonso

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 08/20/14 11:04 AM

Waw!!!, this sumer I was playing this release and now is completly awesome the difficulty level and all the improves.
All the units respond : vulcan, bmp's, ship's, fighters.

Completly awesome and very realistyc.
You are an artist.

Congratulationd and thanks.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 08/20/14 03:31 PM

thanks for positive feedback. some annoying bugs are here but I'm always delay dealing with them. this day will come! someday..
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 08/31/14 06:40 PM

Hi,

Despite having installed the most recent 1.15.2 patch for quite some time (just after it was released to be more precise), only recently I had the opportunity play EECH with this version and I would like to give my feedback regarding 1.15.2 version:

Positive/what I did like:
- Many ground units are now much better in detecting and engaging air units (resuming, they defend themselves much better). Namely, I noticed improvements on this regard in the 2S6 Tunguska (this one is very deadly now), IFVs (Bradley, BMPs) and even on MBTs (Abrams and T-80). Ships also seem to be much better as well.
- Fighter/combat aircraft are a "million" times better and are now very effective weapons as they should be, resuming they now battle enemy forces.
- Dedicated Air-to-Air missiles such as Stingers seem to be much more effective in hitting enemy targets and definitely less prone to be decoyed by flares.
- Many, many other improvements. Resuming, thanks very much for the update.


However I did find some stuff that I didn't like and feel they aren't realistic and IMO should be corrected:

1- Helicopter lift power is just too weak within the new flight model! For example in other to be able to maintain altitude in flight an Apache helicopter with a rather lighter payload of 8xHellfires, 2xRocket pods, full gun ammo and 50% fuel the player has to apply around 85% of torque or more. This leaves only about 15% of torque in order for the player to be able to gain altitude which means that normally the player hardly moves or only makes extremely small movements on the collective axis, this if the player doesn't want to over-torque (which is something that should always be avoidable, except for some extreme circumstances)!
First I thought that this was due to the new "realistic engine workload simulation model" but after disabling that line in the EECH.ini file, I didn't notice considerable changes. I do however noticed that this problem doesn't occur (or isn't so severe) if I use the Default flight model even if I have the "realistic engine workload simulation model" active!
An another thing that I notice with the new flight model, is that the tail rotor authority is also too weak -> for example if I'm hovering and apply full pedal (either to the left or right) the helicopters Yaws at a very slow rate, as opposite to the default flight model which turns faster and IMO more realistically.
IMO it's like if the new flight model applies very weak power to the main and tail rotors!
Therefore and so far I prefer to use the default flight model together with the new "realistic engine workload simulation model".

2- The Radar Hellfire (AGM-114L) should be more effective against slow moving air or airborne targets, resuming more similar to what they were in the versions previous to 1.15.2.
Currently in 1.15.2, Radar Hellfires are completely ineffective even against a hovering (or very slow moving) helicopter!
So far I haven't tested the Laser Hellfire against airborne targets but I hope that at least they are more effective.
EDIT: I just tested the Laser Hellfire and this Hellfire variant is quite effective against air target as opposed to the radar Hellfire.
However I noticed that this could probably be the reason of another issue that I've experiencing with 1.15.2, which is:
2.1- Russian advanced helicopters (Ka-52 and Mi-28) are much more deadly in an air-to-air environment than a Longbow Apache when fighting each other, which is definitely not realistic! I suspect that one of the reasons or perhaps the main reason for this, is that the Longbow Apache seem to carry Radar (only) Hellfires most of the times which puts it at a serious disadvantage against enemy Ka-50/52s and Mi-28s since missiles such as Vihkr, Ataka (and Laser Hellfire) outrange the Stinger (or Strela) missiles and are carried in higher numbers.

3- While the ability to engage aerial targets in most ground units seem to be improved (as mentioned above) some dedicated anti-air units, namely the Avenger and the SA-13 are still completely ineffective against air targets. I've seen recurrently M-2 Bradleys and even M-1 Abrams engaging (firing at) enemy helicopters while the Avengers don't do nothing (except moving the turret sometimes but they won't open fire). The same also seem to happen with the SA-13.

4- This is a problem that I noticed in versions previous to 1.15.2 but is still present in this latest version:
When ordering the gunner to lock targets while flying the AH-1Z using EO sensors (both FLIR and DTV) the gunner never locks airborne targets even if there's for example an enemy helicopter flying right in front of you, which makes the AH-1Z useless against air targets!

I hope this helps to improve this great game and patch even further.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/01/14 04:03 PM

ricnunes, thanks for your reply. I can comment some of your notices but I'm not planning to make any changes in dynamics or AI behaver in close future so we can return to the discussion about these problems when time will comes.

1. realistic engine workload was made long time ago by Werewolf and it wasn't changed since then. shortly it decrease engine RPM value when you increasing main rotor blades pitch value, so you can feel loss of power, but it's not the reason of continuous lift loss. what is really makes "problems" for you is transitional lift. lift gain instead of linearly increasing now has curve shape and has maximum value close to half of maximum helicopter velocity and will decrease with velocity increasing. so, if you flying at maximum speed you will experience lift loss. same for hovering and low speed moving, but usually ground effect makes it not very noticeable. just for testing purpose you can try to switch back to new FM and disable Transitional Lift in dynamics options.

2. new gwut weapon parameter was added - detonation_radius, and it makes significant changes to gameplay. earlier all guided weapons hits targets when missile was close enough (15 meters or something), what is not really true because not all missiles has proximity fuze. now only ATA missiles has it and some of the ATGM (Vikhr, AGM114R), but not Ataka or Shturm (ATA version of Ataka exists but we haven't it in the game), so I can't say why you noticed any changes in Havoc effectiveness. usually AGM114L included in Air-to-Ground payload and AGM114R - in Air-to-Air payload because I didn't find any confirmation that Longbow Hellfire capable to detonate from the distance to target. of course, all weapons changes require a lot of adjustments to bring game back to the balance.

3. I think this problem is quite simple - they just reloading. ground units has unlimited ammo but every rearming makes next one is longer. or maybe target was too close. or maybe it's really a bug. anyway thanks for the tip, I will remember that.
Posted By: Pesanur

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/01/14 05:06 PM

As far as I'm remeber the bug of the AAAs is even in the vanilla game, and this includes the AA guns of the Tunguska, making that MBTs and IFVs are far more efective in the AA role that dedicated AAA vehicles.

MBTs and IFVs fire their guns on sight against airbone targets, and with extreme efficiency, but you can fly around AAAs at any range without their firing a single bullet.

NOTE: Any GWUT file that make the game a little easier? I'm prefer when EECH was a mid-tier simulator. Too much realism make the game boring.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/01/14 05:23 PM

easier in what way? if you talking about FM it will be better for you to use default flight model. also you can set easy difficulty level - it will decrease amount of damage taken by player twice and also there will be no armor value for all game units.
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/03/14 12:30 AM

Originally Posted By: thealx
ricnunes, thanks for your reply. I can comment some of your notices but I'm not planning to make any changes in dynamics or AI behaver in close future so we can return to the discussion about these problems when time will comes.

1. realistic engine workload was made long time ago by Werewolf and it wasn't changed since then. shortly it decrease engine RPM value when you increasing main rotor blades pitch value, so you can feel loss of power, but it's not the reason of continuous lift loss. what is really makes "problems" for you is transitional lift. lift gain instead of linearly increasing now has curve shape and has maximum value close to half of maximum helicopter velocity and will decrease with velocity increasing. so, if you flying at maximum speed you will experience lift loss. same for hovering and low speed moving, but usually ground effect makes it not very noticeable. just for testing purpose you can try to switch back to new FM and disable Transitional Lift in dynamics options.


Well, the problem is what I'm experiencing (lift loss) happens in every or any flight regime, being it hovering, flying slowly or flying at medium, cruise or high speeds and/or any altitude. This behaviour doesn't concur with any other helicopter flight sim that I've played so far (and I played many) including in the helicopter sim that many consider the "most realistic" in terms of flight model/dynamic which is DCS:Black Shark 2.
I find the default EECH flight model to be more "in line" with other realistic helicopter sims, such as Longbow 2 and (again) DCS:Black Shark 2, among others.

In the meanwhile I'll try for testing purpose your suggestion of disabling Transitional Lift while using the new flight model in order to help you.

However I must say that I'm happy in a realistic perspective/gameplay with the default flight model and all other realistic option set to on (together with the 'realistic engine workload simulation')


Quote:

2. new gwut weapon parameter was added - detonation_radius, and it makes significant changes to gameplay. earlier all guided weapons hits targets when missile was close enough (15 meters or something), what is not really true because not all missiles has proximity fuze. now only ATA missiles has it and some of the ATGM (Vikhr, AGM114R), but not Ataka or Shturm (ATA version of Ataka exists but we haven't it in the game), so I can't say why you noticed any changes in Havoc effectiveness. usually AGM114L included in Air-to-Ground payload and AGM114R - in Air-to-Air payload because I didn't find any confirmation that Longbow Hellfire capable to detonate from the distance to target. of course, all weapons changes require a lot of adjustments to bring game back to the balance.


I see what you mean but if I'm not mistaken the AGM-114R even having a Fragmentation (Frag) Sleeve it doesn't have a proximity fuse - It's the proximity fuse (and not the warhead itself) that enables a missile to detonate on proximity (and a Fragmentation warhead or Sleeve makes the proximity detonation more effective/deadly). From what I know (and if I'm not mistaken) all AGM-114 Hellfire missile variants seem to have direct contact detonators only but it's important to know that the Hellfire missile is considerably more precise and definitely more agile than the Vikhr which makes the Hellfire a weapons which is potentially as good or even better in some situations than the Vikhr even when engaging airborne targets, specially low-speed airborne targets such as helicopters.
So resuming the Hellfire (both radar or Laser variants) compared to the Vikhr has the following advantages/disadvantages:
- Higher precision and agility which makes a direct impact on any target (including aerial ones, specially slow flying ones) more likely.
- If the missile detonates on the (aerial) target it means (in the vast majority of situations) the complete destruction of the (aerial) target.
- Don't have proximity fuse detonator which means that a near miss equals to no missile detonation and absolutely no damage to the (aerial) target.

The Vikhr compared to the Hellfire (both radar or Laser variants) has the following advantages/disadvantages:
- The missile is faster than the Hellfire which means that there's less time for the target to react.
- Proximity fuse means that a near miss can likely damage or even destroy an (aerial) target.
- Lower missile precision and agility means than it's less likely that the missile manages a direct hit and even a very near miss which could destroy or inflict considerable/heavy damage the (aerial) target.

Also and arguably, the best/most realistic Ka-50 and Vikhr simulation is DCS:BS2 and managing to hit a Vikhr at a slow and straight flying helicopter such as a UH-60 in that simulation is at best a "challenge" so I believe that while the Vikhr has a proximity fuse detonator, definitely it isn't a good anti-air weapon.

The Hellfire while not being designed to be an anti-air weapon (and therefore the lack of a proximity fuse) it already demonstrated (in the real world) a considerable capability to hit/destroy ability or aerial targets either on training ranges (against drones) or while fired in "anger" (in combat) near Israel (over the Gaza strip if I'm not mistaken) when for example a Cessna suspected to be flying weapons for the terrorist/guerrilla/insurgent groups was shot down in flight by a Hellfire missile fired from an Israeli AH-64 Apache.


Quote:

3. I think this problem is quite simple - they just reloading. ground units has unlimited ammo but every rearming makes next one is longer. or maybe target was too close. or maybe it's really a bug. anyway thanks for the tip, I will remember that.


The problem is that the Avenger and the SA-13 almost never or very rarely fire any of their missiles so I doubt that it's anything related to reloading - You can't reload the ammo that you haven't expended yet.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/03/14 06:49 AM

I'm not practicing comparing EECH with any other games so all my changes based on boring numbers from open sources, and I found that default flight model gives too much lift. I can be wrong, or I just miscalculate some values, but I have no real helicopter control experience and only way to make things right is just messing around with values and wait for result. this FM in early testing stage so all feedback like yours will be taken into account in flight model improving process.
btw, available power can be increased with changing main_rotor_induced_air max (usually 26.0) in dynamics/.dyn files.

it's hard to tell what components AGM-114R has - even if it's already in service there is not much detailed information. only found that pilot can change missile detonation mode (?) after launch to make explosion more effective (and I suppose it's different to ESAF that was present on earlier Hellfire missiles). I can only guess how it works, but I found it's similar to Vikhr detonation control, only difference for I-251 Shkval it should be done before launch. you can disable proximity fuze by setting detonation_radius = 0.0 for Hellfire.
Posted By: Pesanur

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/03/14 02:22 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
easier in what way? if you talking about FM it will be better for you to use default flight model. also you can set easy difficulty level - it will decrease amount of damage taken by player twice and also there will be no armor value for all game units.

I'm mean that IA units are too effective, making the game a lot more difficult. And option for a less effective enemies can be welcomed.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/03/14 03:50 PM

Quote:
I'm mean that IA units are too effective

changing air_scan_range value for vehicles and/or aircrafts will be easier way to decrease their effectiveness. but of course it will affect whole game process, so decreasing scan range of red's units you maybe should do the same for blue's.
Quote:
And option for a less effective enemies can be welcomed.

I'll think about it.
Posted By: SimonAlonso

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/03/14 05:10 PM

I think that the difficulty level is perfect, I m really addicted, better make the wingman's more efficient, often they do different things that I want, so I need to control them in dangerous conditions.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/03/14 10:47 PM

Found just a couple of little visual bugs while playing.

First, when using the NVGs, the port nav light on the Mi-24 is invisible in external view. Dunno if that's a bug or an intentional feature.

Also, taxiing fixed-wing aircraft, particularly fighters, have been moving around with their gear retracted. Some helis are also starting with their gear up where possible, although so far I haven't noticed a pattern.

That apart, having far too much fun with this. Only complaint I have is that it'd be really nice to get non-linear pedal back; currently the things are absolutely demonic, although that does mean you can make very, very quick turns!
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/03/14 11:26 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
I'm not practicing comparing EECH with any other games so all my changes based on boring numbers from open sources, and I found that default flight model gives too much lift. I can be wrong, or I just miscalculate some values, but I have no real helicopter control experience and only way to make things right is just messing around with values and wait for result. this FM in early testing stage so all feedback like yours will be taken into account in flight model improving process.
btw, available power can be increased with changing main_rotor_induced_air max (usually 26.0) in dynamics/.dyn files.


Well, I also don't have real helicopter control experience as I believe most other members here (namely EECH players) also don't have and that's why I believe it's very important to compare the flight model/dynamics of EECH with other realistic helicopter flight sims (such as Jane's Longbow 2 or DCS:BS2 for example) in order to achieve a more realistic experience with EECH flight model/dynamics. IMO, there is more to a flight simulation and simple numbers/values.
I understand that the new flight model is still in development and that's one more reason why I feel compelled to give my feedback to you.
Speaking of feedback, there's one more thing I would like to add regarding the flight model:
- In my experience when playing other helicopter sims I noticed that the helicopter trends to nose up, specially when applying collective/torque which make sense since the main helicopter lift is upwards but in the new EECH flight model the helicopter trends to nose down even when applying collective/torque which is the opposite of all other helicopter flight sims (and IMO, it kinda defies logic).



Quote:

it's hard to tell what components AGM-114R has - even if it's already in service there is not much detailed information. only found that pilot can change missile detonation mode (?) after launch to make explosion more effective (and I suppose it's different to ESAF that was present on earlier Hellfire missiles). I can only guess how it works, but I found it's similar to Vikhr detonation control, only difference for I-251 Shkval it should be done before launch. you can disable proximity fuze by setting detonation_radius = 0.0 for Hellfire.


From everything that I read about the AGM-114R or Romeo Hellfire is that the fuse/detonator is impact only. What changes, or to be more precise what the pilot is able to change is how the warhead explodes once the missile fuse detonates (which is by impact).
The Romeo Hellfire has a new multi-purpose warhead built-in which can explode in different ways, depending on what mode was selected by the pilot/gunner/crew. For example the AGM-114R warhead can explode similarly to a conventional HEAT warhead in order to defeat armoured targets (such as MBTs) or instead it explode like a Blast/Fragmentation warhead to be more effective against personnel/infantry, equipment or lightly armored vehicles or it can be set to explode only after penetrating the target in order to be more effective to destroy buildings (such as Bunkers, for example). But and nevertheless what sets the missile warhead to detonate is impact only (and not proximity).
In order to know a bit more about the AGM-114R, there's an interesting presentation which can be consulted/downloaded here (it seems to be an 'official' document):
http://www.msl.army.mil/Documents/Briefings/JAMS/HF_Romeo_Public%20Release%20Briefingrev1.pdf

Regarding your suggestion of setting the detonation_radius = 0.0 for Hellfire is not a solution as the game currently is because it would certainly make the game, namely the campaigns more unbalanced and even more unrealistic.
Setting detonation_radius = 0.0 for Hellfire would IMO be a good idea for a future update but this same update would need to be accompanied by changes in the Vikhr missile, namely to reduce the Vikhr's accuracy and agility (compared to the Hellfire missile) and of course lots of testing.

Anyway, my main problem (and IMO the only "gameplay breaking" problem regarding this issue) is about the AGM-114L Radar Hellfire only which currently is completely ineffective against slow-moving airborne targets (or resuming, against helicopters).
Other missiles such as the AGM-114R or Vikhr are IMO acceptable in terms of engaging air targets, namely helicopters.

Resuming, I think and believe that the AGM-114L Radar Hellfire should have in EECH a very similar capability/precision against low flying targets (helicopter) as the AGM-114R Romeo Hellfire and Vikhr currently have.
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/03/14 11:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Pesanur
Originally Posted By: thealx
easier in what way? if you talking about FM it will be better for you to use default flight model. also you can set easy difficulty level - it will decrease amount of damage taken by player twice and also there will be no armor value for all game units.

I'm mean that IA units are too effective, making the game a lot more difficult. And option for a less effective enemies can be welcomed.


Have you tried to set the Difficulty option to "Easy"?
This option is set to "Medium" by default and can be accessed thru the 'Options' Menu (in the main menu) and 'Realism' submenu.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/03/14 11:39 PM

Ricnunes,

I've found exactly the opposing problem with the AGM-114R, rather than the 114L; it was comfortably able to track a Mi-24 doing 300+kph, perpendicular to the launching helicopter. It even managed it when I put the Hind in a split-S. The agility of the basic missile (warhead type not specified) seems to be pretty high. See pages 4 and 5 of this thread for this matter.

Personally, I find the values currently in-game fine, although I can't say I've experienced your weird collective behaviour in any of my playing. The only exception to this is when I jumped into a hovering Mi-17 and, in spite of putting on 120% collective, couldn't manage to get the thing even to stay in the air - no translational lift and a heavily-laden bird.

Can you give any more details on what you're doing at the time?
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/04/14 07:27 PM

I don't know what "more details" can I give after those two lengthy posts of mine (where I believe I described those issues with quite detail).

So this time I'll try a different approach and try to be more to the point this time:


Originally Posted By: NutsnBolts
Ricnunes,

I've found exactly the opposing problem with the AGM-114R, rather than the 114L; it was comfortably able to track a Mi-24 doing 300+kph, perpendicular to the launching helicopter. It even managed it when I put the Hind in a split-S. The agility of the basic missile (warhead type not specified) seems to be pretty high. See pages 4 and 5 of this thread for this matter.


Sorry (and don't get me wrong) but I believe that I'm not getting what you mean with this ("tracking helicopters doing maneuvers").

However, what I mean is something like this:
- For each 10 (ten) AGM-114L Radar Hellfires that I shoot at incoming enemy helicopters (head on towards my helicopter) only 1 (one) or even none actually hit the target/helicopter.
- For each 10 (ten) AGM-114R Romeo Laser Hellfires that I shoot at incoming enemy helicopters (head on towards my helicopter) about 9 (nine) or even all 10 (ten) actually hit the target/helicopter.

Or if you prefer:
AGM-114L Radar Hellfire -> About 10% or less hit ratio against flying Helicopters.
AGM-114R Laser Hellfire -> About 90% or more hit ratio against flying Helicopters.

That's a huge difference between both missiles and I'm puzzled on how can you (or someone else) have an entirely different (opposite) experience!


Quote:

Personally, I find the values currently in-game fine, although I can't say I've experienced your weird collective behaviour in any of my playing. The only exception to this is when I jumped into a hovering Mi-17 and, in spite of putting on 120% collective, couldn't manage to get the thing even to stay in the air - no translational lift and a heavily-laden bird.

Can you give any more details on what you're doing at the time?


Regarding flight model, all I can say is (again) that in order to maintain an Apache helicopter in the air without loosing altitude I must put 90% (or more) on the collective, no matter what flight regime I'm at (hovering or slow, medium, high speed) or no matter what useful payload I have (doesn't matter if I'm flying with 50% fuel plus 8 Hellfire and 2 Rocket pods or for example 100% fuel plus 16 Hellfires -> The behaviour is the same).

But like I previously said, this issue doesn't bother me much since I just select the Default Flight Model in the EECH.INI file (Which IMO is already quite good) and have my problem "solved".
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/04/14 08:51 PM

My apologies; I've misunderstood what you were saying. We're in agreement re: the effectiveness of the AGM-114R, and it's my fault for having misread your previous messages.

I'm going to go and have a few Free Flights in an Apache, and see if I experience the same phenomenon; it's very weird, since translational lift ought to kick in and get you going upwards much more readily than that. Obviously, you solution of using the default FM also works admirably!
Posted By: ricnunes

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/05/14 08:42 AM

Originally Posted By: NutsnBolts
My apologies; I've misunderstood what you were saying. We're in agreement re: the effectiveness of the AGM-114R, and it's my fault for having misread your previous messages.


No problem NutsnBolts.
Even because that now the current Laser Hellfire variant modeled is called AGM-114R and the Radar Hellfire is called AGM-114L, I completely understand that it becomes a f**king (pardon my expression) confusion to sometimes distinguish between both Laser Hellfire and Radar Hellfire wink
It can even become more confusing considering that while in the Cockpit (in the Apache for example) the Laser Hellfire is named AGM-114(L) while the Radar Hellfire is named AGM-114(R).

On top of that, I believe that my previous posts were too lengthy/big and added even more to the confusion biggrin



Quote:

I'm going to go and have a few Free Flights in an Apache, and see if I experience the same phenomenon; it's very weird, since translational lift ought to kick in and get you going upwards much more readily than that. Obviously, you solution of using the default FM also works admirably!


Roger that. Please tell me what you find.
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/06/14 02:18 PM

Hi, try this: http://www9.zippyshare.com/v/79785434/file.html and another version with Vikhr and Shturm speed lowered according to data found on the web, i hope i'm not wrong: https://www.sendspace.com/file/nhjnwt
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/07/14 10:01 PM

Further bug report: Getting repeated instances of aircraft, particularly helicopters, not attacking targets. Case in point: set up a BAI mission and assigned it to a Ka-52. Loadout of Iglas for self-defence plus 12 Vikhr to hit the target with. The Ka-52 moved along its waypoints, made an attack run, but fired no missiles. It closed to within a few tens of metres of the X waypoint, then withdrew, having inflicted no damage whatsoever on the Blue armoured group it was meant to hit. Another run saw an AI-controlled Mi-24 on a strike mission. The helicopter fired no missiles and did not damage before withdrawing to base, undamaged. Mission failed, again.

Not sure what could be causing that, since it seems to be basically random. Will expand as I learn more about it.

On a related note, could one of you kindly blokes send me a PM about getting access to the EECH code? I've been in touch with Messyhead, who led me to the EECH Dev page, but the email I sent to the address listed bounced and he suggested trying a post here. Any info therefore appreciated. In my infinite stupidity, I thought I might try my hand at modding.

ETA: Skip, can't replicate your lift issues; even fully laden (in Free Flight mode), the AH-64 lifts off just fine for me. Weirdness.
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/08/14 07:58 AM

What happened? I've only edited power output, missiles' specifics and radar scan range nothing else, maybe something gone wrong i'll take a look asap.
Posted By: NutsnBolts

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/08/14 12:29 PM

Ah! Misunderstanding mate - I'm talking about a bug in vanilla 1.15.2, not with your modded version. Haven't tried that yet - you can relax smile

I think what may be happening with the non-attacking helis is them getting distracted by another target, then flying too close to a hostile unit, getting damaged and withdrawing. If I catch it again, I'll save the same at the previous autosave and run the debug.exe, see if I can see anything.
Posted By: vyrago

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/11/14 12:03 AM

when starting a mission with Mi-28, often the tail boom is already in contact with the sandbag barrier around the helipad resulting in immediate tail rotor damage. It seems to depend on the spawn of the helicopter on the pad: ie, its facing. It can also happen with Mi-24. The apache and Comanche seem ok, their tailbooms seem to fit just within the 'bunker'.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/11/14 04:10 AM

vyrago, thanks, it's known problem - helicopter azimuth is always 0 after it placed on the pad.
Posted By: messyhead

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/11/14 09:04 AM

Originally Posted By: thealx
vyrago, thanks, it's known problem - helicopter azimuth is always 0 after it placed on the pad.


Dos the azimuth also determine the direction that helo's point when they land?

Could we add a reference of some sort to the FARP pad and use that, so the helo will always be pointing the right direction?

(I'll add something to the bug tracker)
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 09/11/14 01:40 PM

Quote:
Dos the azimuth also determine the direction that helo's point when they land?

there is some heading manipulations while AI helicopter is landing, but changing it not a problem.

Quote:
Could we add a reference of some sort to the FARP pad and use that, so the helo will always be pointing the right direction?

already did it. unfortunately, 1/3 landing pads rotated 180* relative to landing route and that cause guarantee 33% tail rotor damage of most helis (exclude coaxial and small one like Comanche). I had some troubles with FARP scenes conversion but I hope I will pass it through next time I will find time for it.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 11/29/14 10:03 PM

1.15.2FIX5 patch details can be found on first page. FARP heading fix wasn't included because it broke savegame and multiplayer compatible with current version, will be available with next update.
Posted By: SimonAlonso

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/03/14 05:18 PM

Wawwwww Thealx, again hitting hard.
Thank you very much, you make me happy.
Posted By: SimonAlonso

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/07/14 07:18 PM

Hello.
One thing that I like a lot of this sim is the playability using keys.
I play this sim since 2000 and I never feel the need of a joistick or something like that.
Others sim haven't this characteristic.
It will be good to disable "ctrl+x, ctrl+q, and windows key" if it is possible, don't you?
Thanks.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/07/14 07:33 PM

not sure, I'm always using Ctrl+X for example. can't say how possible it is to disable Win key, but I'll try.
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/23/14 12:11 AM

How do you repair?

Is there a key?

I had a mission where my Comanche was heavily damaged but I was able to flow back to base.

When I got back to the forward base, I left the mission and let the computer land it.

Now about 20 minutes later, I just took a new mission and it's the same Comanche at the same forward base but it's still damaged.

It didn't repair itself after the computer took control and landed.

I am sitting in the cockpit on the landing pad with the rotors turning and the damage showing on my screen bottom left corner but I don't see any repair progress bar.

I tried taking off and then changing the waypoint to the last one and it said mission failed and then I landed at a different landing pad than the one I just took off from.

After landing and the engine coming to a stop, it's still not repairing.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/23/14 04:32 AM

it happens for keysites placed on a large area. repairing zone is 400x400 meters but sometimes landing pads outside of this area. in this case you can try to land on another pad in a different side of keysite, or just roll around. not sure why AI helicopter wasn't repaired, maybe it's another reason. if things goes completely wrong you can use Ctrl+R keys to repair.
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/23/14 05:01 AM

Oh it's working now - I slid to a different landing pad since I couldn't take off.

I just attacked an enemy carrier and I could had swore I saw the guns on the carrier shoot down a a couple of the Hellfires I launched at it.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/23/14 05:30 AM

it called CIWS. not really effective but looks cool =)
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/23/14 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
it called CIWS. not really effective but looks cool =)


It does look cool.

Do you think any of CIWS rounds hit any of the Hellfires I launched at it?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/23/14 06:46 PM

game has poor collision calculations, so instead of direct impact shells explosion used for missile damage. these cannons has some chance against one missile, but if you will launch several missiles at once - most of them will get to the target.
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/23/14 06:50 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
game has poor collision calculations, so instead of direct impact shells explosion used for missile damage. these cannons has some chance against one missile, but if you will launch several missiles at once - most of them will get to the target.


HEHE!

I launched all 8 R and 8 L at it.

I bet the enemy were saying: You sank my battleship!
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/24/14 10:40 AM

Hello guys, here is the latest 1152 update, it includes enhanced capability to shturm and ataka missiles according to the latest variants in service, i hope you enjoy them and merry christmas:

http://www.filedropper.com/gwut1152

I'm also working on APKWS and UGROZA.
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/24/14 07:42 PM

I was flying a MI-28.

Had my air to ground missiles on and my groudn radar on and I was within 5 miles of my target with the target right in front of me at 12 oclock.

Why does it keep saying target outside seeker limit and I can't locked to it?

I was maybe 40 m hovering and nothing between me and the target: no mountains, buildings, treets, etc.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/24/14 07:54 PM

you should hold target in center of the HUD sight before launch.
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/24/14 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
you should hold target in center of the HUD sight before launch.


OH!

It's different now than before the 1.15.2 update?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/24/14 08:35 PM

no it's the same, but maybe angle value was decreased.
Posted By: Powerstomp

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/24/14 09:15 PM

Thealx is right. But also take in to account the depth of the road the enemy armor is on.
Most all of the roads are sunken from the surrounding ground. This provides the armor with added protection from the sky.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to turn and travel to align my heading the same direction as the road.
(Where my helo is flying parallel over the road) (rather than approaching road from side)

Sometimes , this is the only way I can get a valid lock to launch ,especially when it's those armored groups traveling down the road.

After flying so high trying to get a lock without success ,I end up doing this maneuver even though I get a little too close for comfort. But always successful.


Powerstomp
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/31/14 05:33 PM

Hi, just finished another GWUT update, this time AGM114K updated to K2A variant and another little enhancement to Vikhr missile, now they have much more damage capability, happy new year everyone!

http://www.filedropper.com/gwut1152
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/31/14 06:09 PM

Hi, Skip. can you fix guidance_type values (right after weapon name) for some missiles in your original GWUT? it will not affect anything right now, but will make your files works properly with further versions:
for 9M120 Ataka-V - change 7 to 5
for 9A4172 Vikhr - 4 to 5

Happy New Year, guys!! loaded-santa
Posted By:

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/31/14 06:28 PM

Happy New Year smile
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 12/31/14 06:47 PM

Sure here you are: http://www.filedropper.com/gwut1152_1
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/06/15 06:13 PM

I was in a Comanche.

There was a KA-52 hovering still over a base about 4 KM from me, directly at 12 oclock in front of me.

I fire a laser hellfire, locked with clear LOS, at it from directly 12 oclock in front of him.

The hellfire heads straight at his cockpit and it looks like a direct head on kill.

NOPE!

It passes the KA-52 exactly parallel to the length of his fuselage, just a foot away from it, into the chaff the KA-52 launched behind it and does no damage to it.

The hellfire should at least explode when it hits the chaff but it flies through it and it keeps going.

The KA-52 is not damaged because it doesn't even flinch or move and it stays at the same hovering position without even changing altitude.

In another campaign, I was flying a KA-52 over water and I fired a VIKHR at a Viper heading my way.

Same as above, 12 oclock, should be direct hit, blah blah blah, the VIKHR does the same thing the hellfire did with the KA-52, through the chaff and keeps going and the Viper was not damaged.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/06/15 06:21 PM

you can't guess about damage until you haven't debug_show_damage string enabled.
and laser guided missiles doesn't react on chaff anyhow. maybe it didn't cause damage when it should, but maybe you just misunderstood situation. I hope you read about warhead types?
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/07/15 09:45 AM

Quote:
The laser Hellfire is very useful against freight planes and helicopters, it can't be spoofed by countermeasures, a hit is almost certain.


So it should had been a hit especially when it was coming directly at me from 12 oclock and I was firing at it while flying directly at it from 12 oclock, head on to head on.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/07/15 01:35 PM

what percentage of launched missiles doesn't cause damage to enemy helicopter?
Posted By: Righteous

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/12/15 03:51 AM

K2A is not an upgraded K-model. It is a K-model with a blast fragmentation sleeve placed around the warhead for use as an anti-personnel weapon as the tandem charge HEAT warhead in the AGM-14K is not very effective as an anti-personnel weapon. If you are going to model it then it should be a separate entry as the additional weight reduced the range and required updates to the autopilot because of the CG shift.
Posted By: Righteous

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/12/15 04:04 AM

The TADS seems to have a major issue with parallax in the manual mode. I have missed several Hellfire shots when using the TADS for targeting even with the crosshairs centered on the target. The range seems to be from a point behind the target but there is no way for this to happen as the target completely blocks the laser beam and there would be no first/last return issues with ranging and designation in this case. Regardless, there is no variant of a Hellfire that would detonate upon hitting chaff. All Hellfires have impact fuses and must strike a solid object for the warhead to detonate. Further, chaff would have little to no effect on the AGM-114L as the strips are not cut to a wavelength that the RF Hellfire "sees". It is also very unlikely that a radar detection system would pick up a Longbow radar since these systems are designed to detect radars that operate in different parts of the RF spectrum at much longer wavelengths.
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/12/15 06:08 AM

Is it just my imagination or I haven't seen any Osprey on the Blue side after installing 1.15.2? Not even on the Blue aircraft carriers.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/12/15 02:25 PM

Originally Posted By: CG2015
Is it just my imagination or I haven't seen any Osprey on the Blue side after installing 1.15.2? Not even on the Blue aircraft carriers.

any units configuration files wasn't changed, so yes - it's just a coincidence.

Originally Posted By: Righteous
The range seems to be from a point behind the target but there is no way for this to happen as the target completely blocks the laser beam and there would be no first/last return issues with ranging and designation in this case.

there is now laser beam simulation in the game (we talking about 1.15.2), so missile moving to the active target (even if it not locked by you - when you pointing on some object it became active target) or locked point on the ground. missile can miss if it had unstable trajectory before impact (inaccurate guidance or problems in the flight path calculation) or you just moved sight away from target (target gates are disappeared or flickering) and missile lost it for a moment. I can only recommend to not use manual guidance - it doesn't works properly. yet.
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/12/15 07:21 PM

Righteous did you tried my latest release? If so thank you, i hope that the AGM114K2A will be added as a separate Hellfire II variant, but it don't depends from me. Can you give me more informations about this missile (weight, min/max range) i'll really appreciate it. There's another GWUT ready after some tests.
Posted By: Righteous

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/12/15 08:43 PM

The K2A is also called Special K and was fielded in response to a need to engage personnel setting up IEDs and ambushes. The AGM-114F and AGM-114K have HEAT warheads that are not very effective against personnel in the open. Regardless, the AGM-114K2A weighs about 103 pounds, because of the fragmentation sleeve, which is three or four pounds more than AGM-114K (99-100) and about four pounds less than AGM-114L (106-108). The variances are the result of different weights given in different sources. The range would be affected by the increased weight of the missile, however, there may be changes to the autopilot to help reduce this. Minimum range would probably not be affected much as this is a function of the laser designator so long as the target is with 5 degrees of the nose but maximum range may drop from 500 to 1000 meters depending on launch mode and environmental conditions.
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/12/15 10:21 PM

Thank you very much Righteous, i've made some changes i hope you and the other guys will appreciate them:
1152: Changed AGM114K weight and AGM11R can now be launched from higher altitude than other hellfire variants like in real life.

1153:AGM114K2A is heavier and max range decreased, updated TOW,VIKHR,ATAKA and SHTURM.

http://www.filedropper.com/1152gwut

Posted By: Righteous

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/13/15 05:59 AM

The primary difference with AGM-114R is that the autopilot takes more factors into account when launched. The older variants did not take platform altitude or velocity into account when launched. The autopilot flew a programmed path based upon launch mode and target range which resulted in increasing minimum range based upon platform height above the target. This means that the AGM-114R may not climb after launch if fired from a UAV thus reducing the minimum range.
Posted By: SKIP2008

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/13/15 02:44 PM

Hi Righteous, i reduced AGM114R min range and increased effective range: http://www.filedropper.com/1153gwut
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/20/15 02:50 PM

I was in a KA-52, flying not more than 20 m off the ground, looking for a firing position on enemy armor and I got shot down by a Kiowa.

My warning system didn't even sound. My co pilot said nothing.

There is no way a little Kiowa can shoot me down!
Posted By:

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/20/15 03:02 PM

Maybe im wrong but Kiowa has only optical targetting systems,and because of this you not get any warning(I think...) noob.... duck wink
Posted By: Soczkien

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/20/15 03:05 PM

Mine question: did kiowa dont have chaff and flares anymore?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/20/15 03:14 PM

little Kiowa has laser guided missiles. I can't confirm it - works fine for me, MFD switched to threat page and sound caution appears. do you use modified GWUT?
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/20/15 03:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Soczkien
Mine question: did kiowa dont have chaff and flares anymore?

no, they have no.
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/20/15 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: thealx
little Kiowa has laser guided missiles. I can't confirm it - works fine for me, MFD switched to threat page and sound caution appears. do you use modified GWUT?


I am using GWUT1152.CSV that 1.15.2 FIX installed by default.

I didn't make any changes to it and in the EECH.ini file, it does says GWUT1152.CSV is enabled.
Posted By: thealx

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/20/15 03:30 PM

ok, so it should work. warning system reacts on all types of missiles, only difference - it will not work for radar guided missiles if radar warning system is damaged (not our case). maybe you was killed by coincidence - original target was your wingman, but after LOS was lost, enemy switched on you. this is war, everything can happen =)
Posted By: CG2015

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/21/15 06:03 AM

They are going to demote me back to Comrade Corporal and take away The Order Of Lenin medal from me for losing one of Motherland's precious helicopters that was paid for by the Comrade Citizens of the Great Soviet Union.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 01/02/21 12:44 AM

I was wrong back then. Too hard to maintain lift with FM 2 in the latter mods. You should be able to safely maintain ground effect altitude (within 1/2 of the main rotor diameter from the ground) while at least well above translational lift speed (a minimum of double the ETL threshold velocity of 20kts on average, so about a minimum of 40kts) and on only one engine in a two engine helo at no higher than 100% torque on that remaining engine while gear is down. This is a US Army aviation requirement that it be able to get back to base on just one engine without starting the remaining engine on fire, etc. That's minimum. Sometimes quite a bit faster and out of ground effect is possible depending on the helo and/or loadout. Otherwise the extra engine is a waste of money if the helos can't. Only helos in EECH with FM 2 I think I can do that are the coaxials like the KA-52.

So the translational lift is obviously too weak and the engines are maybe slightly too weak with FM 2, as well. I wouldn't be surprised if ground effect is also too weak. The Comanche seems about 5 or 10 kts too slow max cruise speed in level flight at 100% torque with all engines operating, but Apache top speeds seem fine when both engines are still up. Hind is an unsafe pig. FM 0 is WAY too lite and powerful. FM 1 is slightly too much. Well over 100 kts out of ground effect on one remaining engine and with torque to spare on every helo? Yeah, 0 and 1 are off on that. FM 2 seems maybe to have gone too slow/heavy/weak, but, again, most (but not all) of it might just be the weak translational lift and ground effect.

As I said before, the automatic coordinated turning also starts mixing in yaw too much at too low a speed on 0 and 2 when you bank; it's off on 1, obviously, which isn't a bad compromise if it can't be fixed on the others.

Edit:

With FM 2, the menu option to disable Translational Lift is reversed. Off is on and on is off.

Putting the main rotor lift to at least dmrl=1.1 in the EECH.ini when FM 2 is in use seems to have met the minimum single-engine lift requirements for many of the helos just barely with an average loadout, without wildly increasing ceiling and top speed. In fact, it seems to approximate published Comanche dash speeds when briefly at 100% torque on two engines in level flight now. At dmrl=1.1 even the Hind can just barely make it back to base on one engine without starting on fire most of the time, which is a pretty good litmus test, I think. It's still a problem with max gross weight situations, though, and we'd need a jettison stores function for this alone to be sufficient. I suppose next is further dealing with the taxi wheel rolling problem, fixing the still-anemic translational & ground lifts and coaxial yaw rates, and raising the speed for when turn coordination begins kicking in remains on FM 2 to be at least as good as FM 0 & 1, but with the added nifty new RPM effects and proper turning at speed. I am also curious about what the global air density modifier does, as adjusting that solely before made zero difference on the IGE + ETL problem during failure of one of two engines that I could tell.
Posted By: Reticuli

Re: EECH 1.15.2 update available - 04/22/21 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by thealx
ricnunes, what is really makes "problems" for you is transitional lift. lift gain instead of linearly increasing now has curve shape and has maximum value close to half of maximum helicopter velocity and will decrease with velocity increasing. so, if you flying at maximum speed you will experience lift loss. same for hovering and low speed moving, but usually ground effect makes it not very noticeable. just for testing purpose you can try to switch back to new FM and disable Transitional Lift in dynamics options.



When was this altered on FM 2? Where are these dynamics parameters and relationships located, because we haven't found them in the main source code files and these nuances are definitely not in the dyn files.
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