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Any single seaters on the horizon?

Posted By: Force10

Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/17/12 03:38 AM

It seems the majority of planes realeased lately and on deck are mostly 2 seaters. I have bought some but I'm not really interested in flying them.
Posted By: LukeFF

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/17/12 04:10 AM

Obviously not.
Posted By: SC/JG_Oesau

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/17/12 04:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Force10
It seems the majority of planes realeased lately and on deck are mostly 2 seaters. I have bought some but I'm not really interested in flying them.


smile sorry it made me smile/laugh because it wasn't that long ago and people were asking "are we going to get any two seaters" That's in no way me having a go at you, just interesting in seeing things going full circle.
Posted By: Nimits

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/17/12 04:36 AM

No matter what you do, someone is always unhappy.

Which of course is why the only logical thing to do is to make me happy!
Posted By: Mogster

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/17/12 08:03 AM

Originally Posted By: SC/JG_Oesau
Originally Posted By: Force10
It seems the majority of planes realeased lately and on deck are mostly 2 seaters. I have bought some but I'm not really interested in flying them.


smile sorry it made me smile/laugh because it wasn't that long ago and people were asking "are we going to get any two seaters" That's in no way me having a go at you, just interesting in seeing things going full circle.


Yeah this made me smile also.
Posted By: Bandy

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/17/12 11:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Force10
It seems the majority of planes realeased lately and on deck are mostly 2 seaters. I have bought some but I'm not really interested in flying them.

Well Force, you have to admit that two-seaters have been terribly under represented in RoF given their importance in WWI, so my hat goes off to 777 for working towards evening that discrepancy out.

That said, I'm sure there is room in the future for more single seaters. As always with production schedules one has to be patient. I admit it would be nice to hear of possible 'official' choices (even just what they are considering making--OR put it up for a vote! popcorn ).
Posted By: Chef

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/17/12 12:08 PM

Oh I can't see anyone denying two seaters are under-represented in RoF. Though I wish a few more early war fighters would be introduced. The Germans really need the Halberstadt DII to fill in the gaps between the Eindecker and the Albatross.

I am disappointed float planes are more of a focus than the Halb. I'm not angry or all up in arms about it, however, I REALLY doubt I am going to purchase them. I own every plane RoF has produced thus far but I see no point in float planes. Halb, Snipe, N24, Roland, Hanriot, Alb 2 seater series, Farman, 1 1/2...sure...float planes...meh.

Chef
Posted By: WileECoyote

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/17/12 01:34 PM

Agree 100%. I feel the need to fly a Morane-Saulnier N or the Snipe... A dogfight between a E.III and a Bullet like in the good old RB3D!
Posted By: dutch

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/17/12 01:52 PM

777 need to release that SDK.
Posted By: VonBarb.

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/17/12 02:03 PM

Wouldn't mind more two seaters if they could just tone those crackshot gunners' skills down a notch. Call me old school, but I like planes I can actually shoot down biggrin .
Used to not care for buses till I fell in love with the Brisfit, so I'll give the new types a chance, still a couple early war single-seater types would be nice to have as well. I won't be asking for them though, since the upcoming Channel map has made another prospect (by all accounts bigger and multi-crew-er than two-seaters wink ) look far more interesting and worthy, in my books at least, of the team's time and resources than more single-seaters. You know what I mean biggrin

Cheers

Nico
Posted By: Gambit21

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/17/12 08:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Force10
It seems the majority of planes realeased lately and on deck are mostly 2 seaters. I have bought some but I'm not really interested in flying them.


Seems to me you can only fly one plane at a time - so there seems to be enough single seaters at the moment.
Second, you're missing out just letting them sit there - the Bristol is a blast.
Posted By: vocatx

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/18/12 02:34 AM

In Il-2 I was predominantly a fighter guy. I flew bombers, but usually they were far from my first choice. In RoF, however, I have come to love flying the two-seaters and even the 0-400. I've got a friend that I usually fly with and that makes a big difference. It's really a lot more fun to fly mud-moving missions with others than to lone-wolf.
Posted By: Copterdrvr

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/18/12 02:50 AM

Yeah, and if they don't stay in business because we stop buying stuff, I guess it won't really matter-will it?

copter
Posted By: Force10

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/18/12 06:09 AM

Whoa...I didn't realize so many were taking this as a complaint. It was a question, nothing more. Me saying I don't fly 2 seaters much was a statement, I still buy them. It just seemed the last few were 2 seaters, and the roadmap for 2012 are 2 seater seaplanes. Maybe when they catch up the 2 seaters to satisfy that crowd, they will return to single's in 2013. It's all good whatever they put out. thumbsup
Posted By: Bandy

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/18/12 12:17 PM

Originally Posted By: VonBarb.
Wouldn't mind more two seaters if they could just tone those crackshot gunners' skills down a notch. Call me old school, but I like planes I can actually shoot down biggrin ...


Go over to the official forum, I think this THREAD and download the AI gunner mod which makes them a little more bearable, but not a cake-walk either. If not that thread, then look around, there are other mods there such as AI pilot mod, if you don't know about them.
Posted By: RoFfan

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/18/12 03:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Chef
Oh I can't see anyone denying two seaters are under-represented in RoF. Though I wish a few more early war fighters would be introduced. The Germans really need the Halberstadt DII to fill in the gaps between the Eindecker and the Albatross.


People repeat this line as if it were obviously true. Just how long do you think the "gap" is in between the E.III and the Albatros D.I, and what constitutes a gap? Did the Albatros D.I replace the E.III in many units? Yes. For how long did the Halberstadt D.II fly on the front lines before the arrival of the Albatros, a month? Two months?
Posted By: Frankyboy

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/18/12 03:37 PM

the W.12 is actually a fighter, a two seat fighter ordered by the Marine to replace the singleseatfighters like the Albatros W.4 wink
And airbattles between the Felixstowe and the Hansa-Brandenburg were very common over the Northsea. The Felix was surprisingly manouverable and the RoF one will get at last 6 Lewis guns..............
Posted By: Avimimus

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/18/12 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: WileECoyote
Agree 100%. I feel the need to fly a Morane-Saulnier N or the Snipe... A dogfight between a E.III and a Bullet like in the good old RB3D!


Ehh... Morane L makes more sense wink
Posted By: Bandy

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/18/12 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: RoFfan
People repeat this line as if it were obviously true. Just how long do you think the "gap" is in between the E.III and the Albatros D.I, and what constitutes a gap? Did the Albatros D.I replace the E.III in many units? Yes. For how long did the Halberstadt D.II fly on the front lines before the arrival of the Albatros, a month? Two months?


Well, we don't have the Albatros DI, just the DII so far, and yes I know their performance is supposed to be identical. The DI appears early August, DII ordered in August and trickled in effectively by October. Halb DII is ordered by Idflieg in March 1916 and enters service "early 1916" (best I could find on short notice). So this is 3-4 months before the Albatros becomes a factor, and the Halb DII's continue use into spring 1917. MvR flies one for a few weeks in March 1917 when his DIII is damaged. That's a good hole to fill.

During the spring-summer of 1916 the 'RoF Entente' offerings include the N11, DH2, N17 (March 1916). What Central scout do you suggest they make for early-mid 1916 if not Halb DII??? I'll consult my "Jane's Fighting Aircraft", but I know now that the early Fokker D-types were really underpowered for the time and not popular, so probably not good choices for sales either.
Posted By: RoFfan

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/18/12 10:28 PM

Yes, 12 Halberstadt D.IIs were ordered in March 1916. When did they actually start flying? Who knows. Less than one hundred were produced in total, far less than the number of Eindeckers.
Posted By: redpiano

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/18/12 11:20 PM

Originally Posted By: dutch
777 need to release that SDK.


+99999999999999
Posted By: Nimits

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 01:36 AM

So people can build their own planes? Seems, considering the 777 business model, that such would represent willful economic suicide on their part.
Posted By: Master

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 03:24 AM

I would be ok with the SDK for ground objects or terrains but not planes. That would fragments the online community horribly IMHO.
Posted By: redpiano

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 04:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Nimits
So people can build their own planes? Seems, considering the 777 business model, that such would represent willful economic suicide on their part.


I don't much care about new planes, I'd rather see it come out for the sake of mods, that way the community can implement and fix all the crap they get wrong/change for the worse while 777 continues to improve the game's core features and release new planes.

But yes you're right, if it meant new planes that would potentially be committing financial suicide.

Something tells me there won't be an SDK unless ROF goes out of business.
Posted By: Chef

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 04:33 AM

Originally Posted By: RoFfan
Originally Posted By: Chef
Oh I can't see anyone denying two seaters are under-represented in RoF. Though I wish a few more early war fighters would be introduced. The Germans really need the Halberstadt DII to fill in the gaps between the Eindecker and the Albatross.


People repeat this line as if it were obviously true. Just how long do you think the "gap" is in between the E.III and the Albatros D.I, and what constitutes a gap? Did the Albatros D.I replace the E.III in many units? Yes. For how long did the Halberstadt D.II fly on the front lines before the arrival of the Albatros, a month? Two months?


And how many seaplanes were flying about on the front?

In Oct 1916 there were 55 Halbs in front line units. In Dec 1916 there were 104 Halbs. By the end of Feb 1917 there were 68 still flying. By end of of Feb there were 150 Alb DII. If you wish to consider the Fokker DII there were about 130 in October 1916. By Feb 1917 their number had dropped off to 64.

There were only 80 Fokker D8 in service in Aug 1918 but they are included in the game? And the Fokker EIII front line strength on reached a maximum of 110 in April 1916.

So, yes, I think the Halb or Fokker DII are worth including in the game.
Posted By: totalspoon

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 05:12 AM

Hi Guys,

80 Fokker E.V's saw very limited service during August 1918, with only 1 recorded victory being claimed by Emil Rolf. Unfortunately, the E.V was a death trap due to a combination of poor workmanship and wing design. Several pilots were killed when their wings collapsed including Emil Rolf, after which the E.V was withdrawn from service. The D.VIII with redesigned wing was in aircraft parks at the front lines but none had been delivered to frontline units before the war ended (Source - Dan San Abbott). No D.VIII ever saw combat. No sane pilot would fly the E.V.

I'd love to see the Sopwith Snipe in ROF as, Like the D.VIIf and D.VIII it represents the peak of fighters designs for WW1 and unlike the D.VIII, actually saw combat with two squadrons.

Just my 2 cents. smile

Spoon
Posted By: Master

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 05:25 AM

d8 is peak fightr? lmao its a pos that no one flies except for a sunday morning joyride.
Posted By: dutch

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 07:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Nimits
So people can build their own planes? Seems, considering the 777 business model, that such would represent willful economic suicide on their part.


No way, making a plane or ground object that nobody want to buy, seems to me more than suicide. Who wants actually buy that slow moving Zeppelin, a sitting duck like the BE2, the Hanriot, a Renault taxi, big Bertha gun, vessels, ships etc. Or would you buy a static object, like a bunker?
Also everybody is talking about planes that are flyable but I think AI-planes would be a nice start, we still have a lack on early war 2-seaters.

I do agree 777 should take supervision on that and also do the release, even asking the $$ if needed. Take a sample to the $9.99 SYN_Vander missions in the 777 store. That is the way I like to see it.
Posted By: Bandy

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 07:56 AM

Yes, people seem to forget that 3rd party releases can still mean quality control and sales through 777; 3rd party gets a portion -- 777 get their cut for providing some structure (why not control flight model?) and venue.

It isn't all or nothing, geez, you guys want to fall on your swords that quickly?
duh
Posted By: Chef

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 01:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Bandy
Yes, people seem to forget that 3rd party releases can still mean quality control and sales through 777; 3rd party gets a portion -- 777 get their cut for providing some structure (why not control flight model?) and venue.

It isn't all or nothing, geez, you guys want to fall on your swords that quickly?
duh


I am 100% against 3rd party plane add-ons and/or flight/damage models. Even if it meant there would never be another plane introduced in RoF. Campaigns and skins from 3rd party add-ons I have no problem with so long as it goes thru 777 before it is released.

Once the wrong people got their hands on the FM/DM tools in RB3D it killed that game for multi-player. EIII jet planes and bullets the size of trash cans started to appear.
Posted By: Bandy

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 01:27 PM

While I missed the golden age of RB3D while I was in grad school, if I remember correctly that era came about only because of 3rd party getting a hold of the source code. Correct me if wrong.

I also partook of the ThirdWire community, and trust me, there are many talented people out there. Sure, there are lots more wannabes (perhaps myself included), but IMHO, as mentioned, there are important planes like the BE2c that will likely fly in the RoF sky only because of 3rd party.

These will not sell, therefore probably will not be made in-house at 777. PLEASE correct me if wrong on that last point... but only time will tell.

Don't get me wrong, if 777 ramped up A/C production, my credit card would melt...
Posted By: RoFfan

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 02:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Chef
Originally Posted By: Bandy
Yes, people seem to forget that 3rd party releases can still mean quality control and sales through 777; 3rd party gets a portion -- 777 get their cut for providing some structure (why not control flight model?) and venue.

It isn't all or nothing, geez, you guys want to fall on your swords that quickly?
duh


I am 100% against 3rd party plane add-ons and/or flight/damage models. Even if it meant there would never be another plane introduced in RoF. Campaigns and skins from 3rd party add-ons I have no problem with so long as it goes thru 777 before it is released.

Once the wrong people got their hands on the FM/DM tools in RB3D it killed that game for multi-player. EIII jet planes and bullets the size of trash cans started to appear.


I haven't played RB3d, but the 3rd party content for Il-2 is fantastic. Or look at Falcon BMS; it might be the most technically accurate sim out there. As you say, you don't want the wrong people to get their hands on something, but the right people can do wonders.

I wouldn't mind seeing third party changes to some of the more egregious flight models. The N28 and D.Va come to mind, of course.
Posted By: Mogster

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 02:14 PM

We don't know they wont sell. If 777 were just looking towards aircraft sales I suspect they wouldn't have picked the Felixtowe and W12. For pure sales I'd go with the Snipe and SSDVI, not my personal choice but I think they'd sell well for online use.

We have no idea what 777s sales have been on the available planes, apart from the SE5a being the most popular. I think a lot of people have been surprised by how much fun the current 2 seaters are to fly in SP and online.
Posted By: Master

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/19/12 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: dutch
Originally Posted By: Nimits
So people can build their own planes? Seems, considering the 777 business model, that such would represent willful economic suicide on their part.


No way, making a plane or ground object that nobody want to buy, seems to me more than suicide. Who wants actually buy that slow moving Zeppelin...


I know tons of people would buy the zeppelin. When I flew Dawn of Aces there were always people flying the Zeppelins around the map for one reason or another.

The same would be true for the be2, hanriot, renault and other planes that you think are crap lol.

People pay hundreds of dollars to drive trains around or on payware for fsx. Granted they wont sell as many planes like that as they do the camel or dr1 but it is probably still a good market for things like that. I know the zeppelin would sell (depending on the price that is.) since I know so many people who ask me, does RoF have zeppelins yet? or I get forwarded that 3rd party rof zeppelin picture 2-3 times a week from old squad mates excited that RoF is getting a zeppelin (even though it really isnt.).

Personally I think they should branch out a bit and make the trains drivable with a car selection and let people man an AA gun car. I would pay good money for that as well. I would also pay to be able to drive barges or larger sea vessels like battleships on the new channel map. It wouldnt have to be much just the ability to man their guns and set speed and waypoint markets on a map.
Posted By: Gambit21

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/20/12 10:29 PM

Originally Posted By: dutch


No way, making a plane or ground object that nobody want to buy, seems to me more than suicide. Who wants actually buy that slow moving Zeppelin, a sitting duck like the BE2, the Hanriot, a Renault taxi, big Bertha gun, vessels, ships etc. Or would you buy a static object, like a bunker?


You're making a leap there.
I don't think 777 plans on charging us for every static/ground object.
Let's get a grip.
Posted By: Mahoney

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/21/12 11:27 PM

I'd quite like to see an FE2b at some point myself.
Posted By: Pooch

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/21/12 11:52 PM

I think we already have a damn good planeset. I'm not one of those who thinks we need every airplane that served. I probably flew about five or six planes , in il-2 when I had it. About 200 flyables, and I flew about 6 of them.
With the DH-4 coming out, we'll have just about every one of the really important airplanes of WW1. Only one missing would be the FE2b. That big old dinosaur did play a pretty important part in the war.
But, really. If you'd been an SE-5 pilot, you'd have met Albatrosses, almost exclusively, over the Western Front. Then D7's. That's it. A few Pfalz d-3's , maybe.
Read McCuddens' "Five Years in The Royal Flying Corps." Once the Albatross was introduced, it seems that's the only single seat scout that he fought. And of course, that very well flon dr-1 with funny face!
Posted By: Gambit21

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/22/12 12:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Pooch
I think we already have a damn good planeset. I'm not one of those who thinks we need every airplane that served. I probably flew about five or six planes , in il-2 when I had it. About 200 flyables, and I flew about 6 of them.


Exactly
You can only fly one plane at a time after all, and if you have time to fly all the planes currently offered in RoF even
at this juncture, you'd better look at what shape the rest of your life is in!
Posted By: Nimits

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/22/12 12:42 AM

Originally Posted By: Gambit21
Originally Posted By: Pooch
I think we already have a damn good planeset. I'm not one of those who thinks we need every airplane that served. I probably flew about five or six planes , in il-2 when I had it. About 200 flyables, and I flew about 6 of them.


Exactly
You can only fly one plane at a time after all, and if you have time to fly all the planes currently offered in RoF even
at this juncture, you'd better look at what shape the rest of your life is in!



I'd agree in general . . . though from the offline career flyer's perspective, there are still some gaping holes, both scouts and two-seaters, for historical continuity (and to give early war scouts some equitable targests).

I don't think we need alot more planes in general, but there are definately a few in particular that are conspicuous by their absence.
Posted By: Gambit21

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/22/12 01:08 AM

Yeah - I'm sure they'll trickle in over time.
It is nice to have the option to jump into anything if the mood or occasion strikes, which is why I'll continue
to purchase all the planes (not to mention funding further development)
Posted By: Mahoney

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/22/12 09:43 AM

Originally Posted By: Gambit21
Originally Posted By: Pooch
I think we already have a damn good planeset. I'm not one of those who thinks we need every airplane that served. I probably flew about five or six planes , in il-2 when I had it. About 200 flyables, and I flew about 6 of them.


Exactly
You can only fly one plane at a time after all, and if you have time to fly all the planes currently offered in RoF even
at this juncture, you'd better look at what shape the rest of your life is in!


All the planes I want to fly exist, with the possible exception of the FE2b which would be fun to play with. However, there are a few we don't have that I'd like to be able to shoot at smile. Even with the FE2b I'm much more interested in it as a non-flyable than a flyable.

I guess that's an issue with the business model - making planes that will be appreciated as non-flyables doesn't make them any money. Perhaps you could sell them as non-flyables on the basis that they *will* be present as non-flyables regardless of whether you've bought them in multiplayer, but won't show up at all in single player? Though I'd guess that would add significant complexity to the Career code; at present it only has to work out what planes the player is allowed to use, not what planes the rest of the AI world can have. Not sure I have a solution to how to make it economically attractive to make planes that people don't want to fly but do want to shoot at.
Posted By: fafnir_6

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/22/12 05:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Mahoney
Originally Posted By: Gambit21
Originally Posted By: Pooch
I think we already have a damn good planeset. I'm not one of those who thinks we need every airplane that served. I probably flew about five or six planes , in il-2 when I had it. About 200 flyables, and I flew about 6 of them.


Exactly
You can only fly one plane at a time after all, and if you have time to fly all the planes currently offered in RoF even
at this juncture, you'd better look at what shape the rest of your life is in!


All the planes I want to fly exist, with the possible exception of the FE2b which would be fun to play with. However, there are a few we don't have that I'd like to be able to shoot at smile. Even with the FE2b I'm much more interested in it as a non-flyable than a flyable.

I guess that's an issue with the business model - making planes that will be appreciated as non-flyables doesn't make them any money. Perhaps you could sell them as non-flyables on the basis that they *will* be present as non-flyables regardless of whether you've bought them in multiplayer, but won't show up at all in single player? Though I'd guess that would add significant complexity to the Career code; at present it only has to work out what planes the player is allowed to use, not what planes the rest of the AI world can have. Not sure I have a solution to how to make it economically attractive to make planes that people don't want to fly but do want to shoot at.


The solution to this seems pretty obvious. For aircraft that are expected to be slow sellers in the traditional sense (i.e. not many will buy the cockpits), maybe charge a nominal fee (field mod cost perhaps) for the AI plane to show up in game. This will get 777 the revenue to continue making these important filler planes but give people the option to opt out of the cockpit while still helping to advance the game. I'm sure some people will complain about nickel & diming here but unfortunately these economics are a reality for flight simmers these days frown.

Just a thought,

Fafnir_6
Posted By: dude163

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/22/12 05:54 PM

Id love to get a zeppelin!

you could be a gunner, a captain , bomb aimer etc, I wish they had the Roland in the game , one of my short list of cool WW1 planes

isnt the hansa brandenburg seaplane fighter coming out too?
Posted By: dude163

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/22/12 05:58 PM

I wanted this one , not the biplane frown
Posted By: Mahoney

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/22/12 08:52 PM

Originally Posted By: fafnir_6
The solution to this seems pretty obvious. For aircraft that are expected to be slow sellers in the traditional sense (i.e. not many will buy the cockpits), maybe charge a nominal fee (field mod cost perhaps) for the AI plane to show up in game.

I'm a bit confused - unless I'm missing something I'd already suggested precisely that in the post to which you were responding, and then pointed out the issue with it - currently the game has no concept of planes that the AI cannot fly; if the plane exists then you can fight against it.

Changing that model to one in which there are planes that exist but which you are not authorised even to encounter has knock on effects for the code of the whole game, particularly the career mode. Currently the career mode only has to worry about which planes the player is authorised to fly, this change would make it have to worry about which planes the player is authorised to encounter. That could be an ugly problem to solve - what do you do if someone quite legitimately starts a career at a time/place where they would regularly encounter a type they have not paid to be allowed to encounter? Replace it with some other unhistorical type? Just leave it out - and let the player be bored as the skies are empty in mission after mission? In contrast the current model of making all planes available to encounter regardless of what you have paid for is simple and elegant.
Posted By: Gambit21

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/22/12 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By: fafnir_6
Originally Posted By: Mahoney
Originally Posted By: Gambit21
Originally Posted By: Pooch
I think we already have a damn good planeset. I'm not one of those who thinks we need every airplane that served. I probably flew about five or six planes , in il-2 when I had it. About 200 flyables, and I flew about 6 of them.


Exactly
You can only fly one plane at a time after all, and if you have time to fly all the planes currently offered in RoF even
at this juncture, you'd better look at what shape the rest of your life is in!


All the planes I want to fly exist, with the possible exception of the FE2b which would be fun to play with. However, there are a few we don't have that I'd like to be able to shoot at smile. Even with the FE2b I'm much more interested in it as a non-flyable than a flyable.

I guess that's an issue with the business model - making planes that will be appreciated as non-flyables doesn't make them any money. Perhaps you could sell them as non-flyables on the basis that they *will* be present as non-flyables regardless of whether you've bought them in multiplayer, but won't show up at all in single player? Though I'd guess that would add significant complexity to the Career code; at present it only has to work out what planes the player is allowed to use, not what planes the rest of the AI world can have. Not sure I have a solution to how to make it economically attractive to make planes that people don't want to fly but do want to shoot at.


The solution to this seems pretty obvious. For aircraft that are expected to be slow sellers in the traditional sense (i.e. not many will buy the cockpits), maybe charge a nominal fee (field mod cost perhaps) for the AI plane to show up in game. This will get 777 the revenue to continue making these important filler planes but give people the option to opt out of the cockpit while still helping to advance the game. I'm sure some people will complain about nickel & diming here but unfortunately these economics are a reality for flight simmers these days frown.

Just a thought,

Fafnir_6


Then you have to figure out a way for different ai aircraft to show up for every single person depending on what planes
they've purchased. If you think about it, you'll realize that's a far from plausible solution.
Posted By: PatrickAWilson

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/22/12 10:54 PM

On topic, the Halberstadt D.II, Fokker D.II, Roland D.II and D.VI, Snipe, DH5, mid war Nieuports (24 and 27), ... there are many that would be nice. However, there are enough right now to play a continuous career from mid 1916 to the end of the war for each and every nationality. That's pretty good. In fact, there are almost as many scouts in RoF as there were initially in RB3D.

Bring on the two seaters smile.
Posted By: Mahoney

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/22/12 10:56 PM

I've been gently looking for a list of WWI types by production number - it would be interesting to see it with the RoF types highlighted and see if there are any obvious holes. Though I imagine that would be skewed towards late war types where production was at a higher level across the board.
Posted By: tagTaken2

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/23/12 07:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Mahoney
I've been gently looking for a list of WWI types by production number - it would be interesting to see it with the RoF types highlighted and see if there are any obvious holes. Though I imagine that would be skewed towards late war types where production was at a higher level across the board.


Is this what you're after?

There's a really unreadable capcha to do before the link works, but I found the pdf very interesting.

Link
Posted By: Mahoney

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/23/12 08:14 PM

That looks awesome - thanks very much!
Posted By: fafnir_6

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/23/12 11:16 PM

Originally Posted By: dude163
I wanted this one , not the biplane frown


The problem is, the W.29 was only operational from the middle of 1918 onwards (78 built). The W.12 was in service from early-mid 1917 onwards (146 units built) so unless you wish to have a German floatplane campaign for only a few months, the W.12 is the better choice in terms of time covered in the campiagn or career mode. I agree that having the W.29 would be awesome but it seems many people want to have 777's scarce resources directed away from the floatplanes. Who knows, maybe we'll have it someday.

@Mahoney: I'm sorry, I guess I didn't read your post as closely as I should have. It seems we agree on this approach.

@Gambit21: I am aware there would be technical challenges with implementing the pay-for-AI approach but neither of us have detailed knowledge about how hard that is to accomplish. I think the goal here is to suggest ideas on how to make early-war cr@p-planes more economically feasible for 777. They can then tell us if it is too hard to implement for the benefit gained.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6
Posted By: Gambit21

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/24/12 01:46 AM

Originally Posted By: fafnir_6


@Gambit21: I am aware there would be technical challenges with implementing the pay-for-AI approach but neither of us have detailed knowledge about how hard that is to accomplish. I think the goal here is to suggest ideas on how to make early-war cr@p-planes more economically feasible for 777. They can then tell us if it is too hard to implement for the benefit gained.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6


Great, I typed what I typed for a reason - based on the resources 777 seems to have available, what we've experienced in
other developed sims where the team involved has had far more resources, and the way the career currently works and is likely to remain working in that regard for the foreseeable future. Again, based on available information. It doesn't take any technical knowledge to render an educated opinion on the plausibility of different AI aircraft for every player, especially if you've been flying combat sims for 25 years.

I'm guessing based on all of this that it's impossible, but that's just bringing common sense to bear born of what we've been told and experienced, rather than 'technical knowledge'
Sometimes common sense goes a long way. YMMV reading
Posted By: Gambit21

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/24/12 01:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Gambit21
[quote=fafnir_6]

@Gambit21: I am aware there would be technical challenges with implementing the pay-for-AI approach but neither of us have detailed knowledge about how hard that is to accomplish. I think the goal here is to suggest ideas on how to make early-war cr@p-planes more economically feasible for 777. They can then tell us if it is too hard to implement for the benefit gained.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6


Great, I typed what I typed for a reason - based on the resources 777 seems to have available, what we've experienced in
other developed sims where the team involved has had far more resources, and the way the career currently works and is likely to remain working in that regard for the foreseeable future. Again, based on available information. It doesn't take any technical knowledge to render an educated opinion on the plausibility of different AI aircraft for every player, especially if you've been paying attention.

I'm guessing based on all of this that it's impossible, but that's just bringing common sense to bear born of what we've been told and experienced, rather than 'technical knowledge'
Sometimes common sense goes a long way. YMMV reading
Posted By: MJMORROW

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/24/12 03:37 AM

My vote is for a late war SPAD XIII two pack, like the SPAD VII two pack. Include a 220 hp version and a 235 version. You get two great, significant, high production machines, needed to fill out the set. Also add an Albatros DIIIau, DVII with DIIIau, to fly along with DVIIfs and a Pfalz DXII with DIIIau too! =) Using high altitude Vander Vintage missions, multiplayer would be total Hypoxia inducing awesomeness! !Charge S! MJ
Posted By: Nimits

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/24/12 03:44 AM

Originally Posted By: fafnir_6
@Gambit21: I am aware there would be technical challenges with implementing the pay-for-AI approach but neither of us have detailed knowledge about how hard that is to accomplish. I think the goal here is to suggest ideas on how to make early-war cr@p-planes more economically feasible for 777. They can then tell us if it is too hard to implement for the benefit gained.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6


I think it might be a bit presumptuous for "suggest" anything for 777 . . . not that they are all knowing (or anything like it), but I find it improbable that they have not (or will not) explore whatever ways are feasible within their business model for building and releasing new content. Either way, we can argue till we are blue in the face over what is or is not feasible, but we have little actual say in the matter.
Posted By: MJMORROW

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/24/12 05:03 AM

Well, as far as early war planes, we have the hand guns and you can introduce a rifle/ hand grenade field mod, for use with machines that do not have forward fixed or flexible mount guns. Still, I would make the late war SPAD XIIIs, before any crap plane. We have a 3D model for the SPAD XIII, already. I have a feeling that the team has plenty of info on the late war SPAD XIII machines. The SPAD XIIIs are highly significant machines, that should be in a game that features DVIIfs and super exotic DVIIIS. I use the SPAD 200 hp SPAD XIII more than I use most of the add-ons, even though I love the other add-ons, a whole lot. Only my SPAD VIIs get more use, than my free to play 200 HP SPAD XIII. If I had the late war SPAD XIIIs, they would replace the SPAD VII machines as my most used ROF add-on. I can't believe that I am alone on that front. Strutters sound ok, but a 235 hp SPAD XIII just sounds like more fun for speed demon types, like me. =) S! MJ

The same goes for the Albatros DVa with Mercedes DIIIau, DVII with Mercedes DIIIau and Pfalz DXII with Mercedes DIIIau; all three of these planes should be add-ons, before any crap plane, AMEN.
Posted By: fafnir_6

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/24/12 05:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Nimits
Originally Posted By: fafnir_6
@Gambit21: I am aware there would be technical challenges with implementing the pay-for-AI approach but neither of us have detailed knowledge about how hard that is to accomplish. I think the goal here is to suggest ideas on how to make early-war cr@p-planes more economically feasible for 777. They can then tell us if it is too hard to implement for the benefit gained.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6


I think it might be a bit presumptuous for "suggest" anything for 777 . . . not that they are all knowing (or anything like it), but I find it improbable that they have not (or will not) explore whatever ways are feasible within their business model for building and release new content. Either way, we can argue till we are blue in the face over what is or is not feasible, but we little actual say in the matter.


I know, but this a forum for discussion. We were discussing the situation (my word ÈsuggestÈ may have been not the best choice smile...Presumptuous, as you say). Early war planes (especially AI two-seaters) seem to be on a lot of people's want lists. Being in the midst of an Oct, 1916 Jasta 2 career, I can certainly see the argument in favor of a BE.2c and a Farman F40 (and maybe an early Albatros C). We were just discussing ways of making this happen, economically.

@MJMorrow: You sir, are a multiplayer RoF pilot...I can tell smile. There are so many competing interests with respect to RoFès future itès easy to see why 777 might decide to go off on a tangent like they have with the 2012 roadmap (not that Ièm upset). Your aircraft choices would make a lot of Multiplayer users very happy (and Mercedes D.IIIau would make everyone happy).

@Gambit21: Limited resources can achieve a lot (just look at Daidalos Team with IL-2). ÈCommon senseÈ as you put it, far too easily translates into Èit cannot be doneÈ, until a visionary team like DT (or maybe 777 in this case) step in.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

Posted By: Jedi Master

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/24/12 02:52 PM

Can we all just agree we'd like to see every plane that ever flew in WWI in here with top fidelity NOW?
Beyond that it's just a question of priorities, and other than general things like "more 2 seaters" or "more maps", they're not going to listen too closely. After all, just look at the disagreement in this single thread among a handful of users on which direction that should take?
No one is disputing the facts, it's the conclusions, and 777 is going to rely on theirs over anyone else here.



The Jedi Master
Posted By: Trooper117

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/24/12 03:16 PM

Whatever they put out we will all purchase it I guess.. I would dearly love to see some more RFC pushers, and I don't doubt that in time we will probably get them smile (nothing like ending on a positive note.. lol!)
Posted By: MJMORROW

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/24/12 10:43 PM

[quote=fafnir_6@MJMorrow: You sir, are a multiplayer RoF pilot...I can tell smile. There are so many competing interests with respect to RoFès future itès easy to see why 777 might decide to go off on a tangent like they have with the 2012 roadmap (not that Ièm upset). Your aircraft choices would make a lot of Multiplayer users very happy (and Mercedes D.IIIau would make everyone happy).


[/quote]



Fafnir,
Yep! I am guilty as charged! I am definitely a multiplayer ROF'er. I sure understand the importance of what we call crap planes and I want them in the game, but I guess I am more of a late 1916 to November 11th 1918 guy. I definitely think that having a focus on multiplayer, I would tend to favor these machines, as they are among the better choices for a multiplayer environment. Still, single player will be missing some seriously important planes and there will be major gaps in the time line, if the Albatros-with Mercedes DIIIau, DVII-with DIIIau, Pfalz-with DIIIau and my favorites, the late war SPAD XIIIs, (220 HP & 235 HP) don't make it in. S! MJ
Posted By: Gambit21

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/25/12 02:47 AM

Originally Posted By: fafnir_6
Originally Posted By: Nimits
Originally Posted By: fafnir_6
@Gambit21: I am aware there would be technical challenges with implementing the pay-for-AI approach but neither of us have detailed knowledge about how hard that is to accomplish. I think the goal here is to suggest ideas on how to make early-war cr@p-planes more economically feasible for 777. They can then tell us if it is too hard to implement for the benefit gained.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6


I think it might be a bit presumptuous for "suggest" anything for 777 . . . not that they are all knowing (or anything like it), but I find it improbable that they have not (or will not) explore whatever ways are feasible within their business model for building and release new content. Either way, we can argue till we are blue in the face over what is or is not feasible, but we little actual say in the matter.


I know, but this a forum for discussion. We were discussing the situation (my word ÈsuggestÈ may have been not the best choice smile...Presumptuous, as you say). Early war planes (especially AI two-seaters) seem to be on a lot of people's want lists. Being in the midst of an Oct, 1916 Jasta 2 career, I can certainly see the argument in favor of a BE.2c and a Farman F40 (and maybe an early Albatros C). We were just discussing ways of making this happen, economically.

@MJMorrow: You sir, are a multiplayer RoF pilot...I can tell smile. There are so many competing interests with respect to RoFès future itès easy to see why 777 might decide to go off on a tangent like they have with the 2012 roadmap (not that Ièm upset). Your aircraft choices would make a lot of Multiplayer users very happy (and Mercedes D.IIIau would make everyone happy).

@Gambit21: Limited resources can achieve a lot (just look at Daidalos Team with IL-2). ÈCommon senseÈ as you put it, far too easily translates into Èit cannot be doneÈ, until a visionary team like DT (or maybe 777 in this case) step in.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6


Limited resources can achieve a lot, but generally only things that make sense get done.
Thus my comments on the AI planes.

cheers
Posted By: Avimimus

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/25/12 02:55 AM

Originally Posted By: Gambit21

Limited resources can achieve a lot, but generally only things that make sense get done.
Thus my comments on the AI planes.

cheers


These AI planes? wink
Posted By: Nimits

Re: Any single seaters on the horizon? - 02/25/12 07:11 AM

Actually, that is one of my favorites . . . I would love to have one.
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