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Still a long way to go

Posted By: nuggetx

Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 10:15 AM

Ok first of all this is not a rant thread.


RoF has still a long way to go , the updates are moving in the right direction but jugdging by the content/time ratio we need 2 more years before RoF becomes the "one" sim.
The so-so campaigns and clunky at best MP mode does not offer indepth.
Il2 sturmovik has its online wars that offer more indepth than whole RoF currently , and it's all fan made.
Having a 20 player dogfight was ok way back 10 years ago at Red Baron times, but today MP mode should offer alot more.

By the time "rof" gets there , BoB will be long out , and as Olegs says that BoBs MP will be capable of handling 128 players i think RoF will remain only in the hearts of WW1 passionats and the rest will move on to BoB.

RoF has the potential , but it's only that potential that can be devastated when BoB is out and the Fokker will be blown out of skies by Spitfire.
Posted By: Speyer

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 10:18 AM

And your point is?
Posted By: nuggetx

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 10:20 AM

mmm not much of a point here , just wanted to say my observation
Posted By: FiveDigits

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 10:30 AM

So far NeoQB has delivered a great next generation sim that needs more work. Oleg has delivered nothing.

We'll see how RoF measures up against SoW:BoB when (if :P) it's finally released.
Posted By: Squid_Von_Torgar

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 11:05 AM

Indeed, SOW BOB is conspicious by its abscense. ROF it out, it is developing at a cracking rate.

MP is fantastic now, and can be indepth as any IL2 server. (Check the Vintage Missions *Plug*)

I imagine that when SOW is released it will have a lot to do to catch up to ROF level of development. Perhaps ROF's sophistication is another reason its been delayed?

Who knows?
Posted By: Frankyboy

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 11:18 AM

SoW:BoB will also have more than singleseat fighters as flyable from the beginning.not to speak of the amount of different AI planes...........

an important point IMHO to make something like an "online war". an event that is taking place for some months with an updated playerstatistic - like
http://www.vowreloaded.de/
or
http://adw.alkar.net/en/

one has only to keep in his minds that the basic "statistic" programms or the servertool of the second are 3. party developmnets !!



i realy like RoF - but its focus on singleseat fighters at the moment is kind of boring for me - very personal , indeed !!
I know , WW1 cant be WW2 in its planevarints - but i guess there was more about WW1 aircombat than dogfight furballs.
Posted By: FiveDigits

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 12:50 PM

RoF's major flaw regarding multiplayer indeed still is the absence of non-fighter planes. There's no doubt about that. But I'm also quite sure we'll get there very soon (- maybe even pre SoW:BoB release).
Posted By: Feathered_IV

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 01:40 PM

Oleg Maddox, 10th June 2010: "We had hoped to show it at E3, but we are not ready yet. SoW is going very good. Can't say superb in terms of time, but good. I'm sure it will be something very good done in comparison to all sims present on the market."

No SoW this year by the sound of it then. Though he is sure when it eventually gets released, it'll be better than sims of the previous generation...

reading
Posted By: Pooch

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 07:19 PM

I don't see SOW being competition for ROF. I see them complementing each other. Two beautiful combat flight sims covering different periods in history. So, because I buy SOW, I won't want to fly this sim? Don't see it that way.
Before the year is up, I'm hoping to have, on my hard drive, ROF ,to get my WW1 fix. SOW for WW2, FC2 when I need to jump into an F-15, and FSX for everything else.
Flight simming Nirvana!
Posted By: BuddyWoof

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 07:37 PM

Im not giving up the finest wwi fsim for a wwii fsim. Ill probably play both. Its not like marraige where ya gotta stick to just one. Ill play the field where i can. another pointless silly thread to entertain us all.
Posted By: =FB=VikS

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 07:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Frankyboy


an important point IMHO to make something like an "online war". an event that is taking place for some months with an updated playerstatistic - like
http://www.vowreloaded.de/
or
http://adw.alkar.net/en/

one has only to keep in his minds that the basic "statistic" programms or the servertool of the second are 3. party developmnets !!
.


one thing - ADW is made by us (GT=Neoqb) but during that time we was an 3rd party team and we had not to make a whole game for it.
One thing - ADW came out almost 4 years (four) after IL2 release, right now - ROF is only 1 year old, and we are still wroking hard to evolve ROF.

PS: when IL2 got first two seater for germans?
Posted By: nuggetx

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: =FB=VikS
Originally Posted By: Frankyboy


an important point IMHO to make something like an "online war". an event that is taking place for some months with an updated playerstatistic - like
http://www.vowreloaded.de/
or
http://adw.alkar.net/en/

one has only to keep in his minds that the basic "statistic" programms or the servertool of the second are 3. party developmnets !!
.


one thing - ADW is made by us (GT=Neoqb) but during that time we was an 3rd party team and we had not to make a whole game for it.
One thing - ADW came out almost 4 years (four) after IL2 release, right now - ROF is only 1 year old, and we are still wroking hard to evolve ROF.

PS: when IL2 got first two seater for germans?


If ADW is from Neoqb than why oh why you didn't implement it as your first priority for RoF MP , you would have ALOT more people with that MP.
Posted By: LukeFF

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 08:52 PM

Originally Posted By: =FB=VikS
PS: when IL2 got first two seater for germans?


That would be the Ju 87 B-2, added as a flyable in a patch sometime after the initial IL2 release.
Posted By: Frankyboy

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 08:55 PM

Originally Posted By: =FB=VikS


.................PS: when IL2 got first two seater for germans?


correct, il2 got its flyable and AI planeset (at least in its current state) that were not fighters also late!
but one have not to make the same mistake again wink

anyway, we will see what the future will bring.
RoF has already a powerfull missioneditor. and if flyable and nonflyable "non"-fighters will fill its world, it will be a fantastic scenario !
Posted By: Damocles

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 09:05 PM

Posted By: Chivas

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/15/10 10:23 PM

SOW will not effect ROF that much. The WW1 crowd will still be here long after SOW is launched. But I do believe SOW will surface as a much more complete sim. ROF was released too soon for financial reasons. Thats not to say that Oleg isn't under pressure to release soon, its just that the ROF team was under more pressure. OR it could be that the ROF team made a business decision to release early so the community could help finance the sim and have a better feel on the size of their economic base.
Posted By: Tiger27

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/16/10 02:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Damocles


Damocles, this clip contains the main reason I keep getting bored with ROF, the total lack of action on the ground kills the atmosphere and for me it is crucial for a WW1 sim to have this ground activity, I was hoping for trenches that you could strafe and some representation of what was happening in the trenches, Il2 has a huge advantage here as the air war for the most part was much more separated from the ground activity in WW2, even EAW had people running from buildings when attacked, and to me this is what is lacking in ROF, other than that it is coming along well and will no doubt continue to improve as time goes on.

No reason not to fly this and SOW or BS or whatever takes your fancy, the more quality flight sims the better!
Posted By: fox3

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/16/10 03:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Chivas
SOW will not effect ROF that much. The WW1 crowd will still be here long after SOW is launched. But I do believe SOW will surface as a much more complete sim. ROF was released too soon for financial reasons.


+1
Posted By: whitehawk31

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/16/10 03:20 AM

THERE NOT! GOING TO BE ANOTHER IL2!!
Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/16/10 06:29 AM

Originally Posted By: nuggetx
Ok first of all this is not a rant thread.


RoF has still a long way to go , the updates are moving in the right direction but jugdging by the content/time ratio we need 2 more years before RoF becomes the "one" sim.
The so-so campaigns and clunky at best MP mode does not offer indepth.
Il2 sturmovik has its online wars that offer more indepth than whole RoF currently , and it's all fan made.
Having a 20 player dogfight was ok way back 10 years ago at Red Baron times, but today MP mode should offer alot more.

By the time "rof" gets there , BoB will be long out , and as Olegs says that BoBs MP will be capable of handling 128 players i think RoF will remain only in the hearts of WW1 passionats and the rest will move on to BoB.

RoF has the potential , but it's only that potential that can be devastated when BoB is out and the Fokker will be blown out of skies by Spitfire.


That's right they are fan made. We now support cool online war features as mentioned. What are you waiting for nugget? Get to work dude.

And it's been said a million times, multi-crew planes are coming and so is a new career system. Just don't have exact dates yet.

Jason
Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/16/10 06:32 AM

Originally Posted By: =FB=VikS
Originally Posted By: Frankyboy


an important point IMHO to make something like an "online war". an event that is taking place for some months with an updated playerstatistic - like
http://www.vowreloaded.de/
or
http://adw.alkar.net/en/

one has only to keep in his minds that the basic "statistic" programms or the servertool of the second are 3. party developmnets !!
.


one thing - ADW is made by us (GT=Neoqb) but during that time we was an 3rd party team and we had not to make a whole game for it.
One thing - ADW came out almost 4 years (four) after IL2 release, right now - ROF is only 1 year old, and we are still wroking hard to evolve ROF.

PS: when IL2 got first two seater for germans?


LOL. Ah...actual historical facts. Funny how we forget the time-line of IL-2 development.

Jason
Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/16/10 06:33 AM

Originally Posted By: whitehawk31
THERE NOT! GOING TO BE ANOTHER IL2!!


True and we never said we would.

Jason
Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/16/10 06:36 AM

Originally Posted By: fox3
Originally Posted By: Chivas
SOW will not effect ROF that much. The WW1 crowd will still be here long after SOW is launched. But I do believe SOW will surface as a much more complete sim. ROF was released too soon for financial reasons.


+1


SOW is a veteran team, more money, more resources, different owners and a different situation. ROF team has played catch up very quickly and will continue to make more things for our engine. Just a matter of time.

And lets not forget performance. I hope I don't hear a bunch of complaints about needing a new system for SOW becasue from what I hear and see in their vids you'll need a very hefty system. Makes our requirements look weak. Again, maybe this will not be the case so who knows. Will be interesting to see what is released.

The more flight-sims the better.

Jason
Posted By: Mogster

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/17/10 05:53 PM

Originally Posted By: 777 Studios - Jason
Originally Posted By: =FB=VikS
Originally Posted By: Frankyboy


an important point IMHO to make something like an "online war". an event that is taking place for some months with an updated playerstatistic - like
http://www.vowreloaded.de/
or
http://adw.alkar.net/en/

one has only to keep in his minds that the basic "statistic" programms or the servertool of the second are 3. party developmnets !!
.


one thing - ADW is made by us (GT=Neoqb) but during that time we was an 3rd party team and we had not to make a whole game for it.
One thing - ADW came out almost 4 years (four) after IL2 release, right now - ROF is only 1 year old, and we are still wroking hard to evolve ROF.

PS: when IL2 got first two seater for germans?


LOL. Ah...actual historical facts. Funny how we forget the time-line of IL-2 development.

Jason


But IL2 did ship with a (near) complete Eastern Front AI planestet, cockpits were added later. ROF really lacks different aircraft classes at the moment. Extra AI planes would fill the gaps, add variety and make true historical missions possible.

3 AI planes would really help.

1)An RE8 to cover the 1917-18 time frame for the RAF. ROF really shouldn't have shipped without an AI RE8, the most common RAF obsy plane mid to late WW1.

A couple of early 2 seaters. 1915-16 2 seaters to provide historical opposition for the DH2 and Eindecker, they get monstered by the late war 2 seaters we have.

2)BE2c, obviously, for the RFC.

3)Albatros C for the German side.

I've deliberately chosen 3 aircraft that would be very useful for SP mission building but really wouldn't make fun flyables. Working on campaign mode is great but without different aircraft classes to back it up we'll end up with the same unhistorical scout on scout fights we have now.
Posted By: Vitesse

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/17/10 06:07 PM

Most of the stuff that Neoqb has done for ROF are the things that any sim needs, no?

I understood the plan was to use the ROF engine for other time periods as well as WW1, so there may yet be an ROF / SOW comparison.

From where I sit, ROF has everything going in it's favour. My wishlist would comprise mainly of an improved campaign system, even if it's all smoke and mirrors. Just needs to be more immersive for me.

If the aircraft/scenery development rate could somehow be improved, the ROF engine may become and remain the sim of choice. IMHO, of course.
Posted By: Mogster

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/17/10 07:12 PM

ROF is the only sim I need at the moment, what we have entertains me to the point where I haven't started anything else, sims or games for a couple of months.

A couple more early scouts, a few AI 2 seaters, then career mode improvements and ROF would be approaching a nicely rounded product. Throw in flyable multi seaters, terrain and world enhancements and zepps and it'd be absolutely amazing biggrin

I hope Neoqb don't intend to move onto other eras any time soon. There's loads of WW1 to do and they have this niche to themselves at the moment. Oleg has WW2/Korea early jets stuff and ED have the hi tech end covered with the fabulous DCS and Lock On. I can't see why they'd move on, I'd rather see ROF2 staying with WW1 than ROF WW2 or some such.
Posted By: Frankyboy

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/17/10 07:25 PM

i also think RoF should never leave the WWI timeframe !!!
there is still alot that can be added to this game.

for myself, im actually not playing RoF - and have not bought the DH.2 (after purchased all other planes so far) yet................

i play only online, and the VOW "R" online war with IL2 brings me more fun with its much more different kind of aircraft - i actually lost interest in flying fighters to fight other fighters.......................but thats very personal.
i guess the most players are mainly interested in such kinf of online flying - at least thats my observation in the VOW "R" (and all other online events the last years with IL2)
Posted By: PatrickAWilson

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/17/10 11:28 PM

Proposal to Neoqb: sell AI only planes as a package or individually. Maybe $2 each. In MP players would have to have access to all planes on a server to join. In SP, make missions unflyable if the palyer does not have access to all palnes.

"Having access" means owning non-flyables contained in the mission. Rules for flyables would remain the same as they are now.

What would happen would be that some hard core servers would spring up that would require the AI plane set. Most would probably remain simple DF servers running under the same rules that we see today. I could certainly work around this sort of thing in my campaign program, just as I have worked around aircraft ownership.

The above is probably not ideal, butI am afraid that if Neoqb can't make some money then we will never see them.

We need at least one AI 2 seater for very nation in every time frame.

Minumum:
British:
BE2c from 1916 - mid 1917.
RE8 from mid 1917 - end of war

German
DFW CV from 1916 to End of War

France
Farman F40 from 1916 to Late 1917
Breguet from Late 1917 to end of war

Better:
British:
BE2c from 1916 - mid 1917.
RE8 from mid 1917 - end of war
Bristol F2b or AWFK8 for late 1917 - end of war

German
Aviatik C.III from 1916 to early 1917
DFW CV from eary 1917 to end of War (12/16 - eow)
LVG CV from late 1917 to end of war

France
Farman F40 from 1916 to Late 1917
Dorand AR from mid 1917 to end of war
Breguet from Late 1917 to end of war

Neither of the above is really accurate. The BE2c was in fact largely replaced by the BE2e by 1917. The Avaitik C.I serveed in 1916 before giving way to the C.III. German Schlasta aircraft are noticable absent. Check WFP2 if you want to get an idea of how rich the variety of 2 seaters really was. There are probably about 60 of them. And it does matter. They may be targets to scout pilots, but each is unique and each offers a varied experience.
Posted By: gonzlor

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/18/10 04:08 AM

I just got a TrackIR and I'm really enjoying the sim, I'm a bit disapointed about Career mode, Not really missing planes, I'm sure they'll come, I did half expect the career mode to be a little more well, red baron like upon release, probably my fault for not looking into it as much when I had the demo. I'd even hoped for the newspaper screens announcing major events like in the original red baron, adds a lot of feel to the game.

I've been toying with the RoFCampaign mod which is heading in the right direction there but It just isn't the same as a similar setup integrated into the game, hope this arrives soon.

Back to black shark for now!
Posted By: Ming_EAF19

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/18/10 08:44 AM

I'm a bit disapointed about Career mode

Same yes, but improving career mode is neoqb's focus right now gonzlor

We asked for QMB, dogfights and the track recorder and got them so it should be interesting

Oh and the windsock Smile2

You'd think with the richness of the material we have on the Red Baron that we could have a Red Baron career at some point, with the historical planes he flew. That may be a plum for third-party campaign developers though. I'd like to walk around his room to find a clear spot to nail up the latest war trophy. Oops so little room... would make a gorgeous GUI though

Ming
Posted By: Sturm_Williger

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/18/10 09:04 AM

Originally Posted By: Ming_EAF19
... I'd like to walk around his room to find a clear spot to nail up the latest war trophy. Oops so little room... would make a gorgeous GUI though

Ming


Actually Ming, that's a fantastic idea for anyone's career mission GUI - your room with your trophies to date. They can vary from a gun, serial number cutout, propellor, roundel/cross cutout. As you mouse over each, you could have a little floatout text over each one with the plane and date of victory.
Imagine then cutscene to the mess downstairs with its chalkboard of your squadmates' kills.

Still dreaming, but I'm sure Neoqb will deliver something worthwhile yep
Posted By: Ming_EAF19

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/18/10 01:22 PM

Don't forget you have to land beside the downed plane to rip off the war trophy and maybe take the enemy pilot to lunch Smile2

Imagine then cutscene to the mess downstairs with its chalkboard of your squadmates' kills

I like it!

But we don't call them kills back then, they're Victories. God forbid anyone gets hurt Smile2

Ming
Posted By: Sturm_Williger

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/18/10 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Ming_EAF19
Don't forget you have to land beside the downed plane to rip off the war trophy and maybe take the enemy pilot to lunch Smile2

Ming


Oh no, I'm an Officer ! I shall send the tender with an enlisted man to do that job WinkNGrin

On the other hand you could have an option that if you land by the downed plane ( on your side of the lines of course ), the ki..sorry, Victory is immediately confirmed whereas otherwise it takes a day or two to show up on the chalkboard.

Little things like that can add to the immersion, not to mention if you crack up attempting such a thing you may end up having to fly the squadron's oldest plane without your skin etc.
Posted By: Ming_EAF19

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/18/10 02:03 PM

I'm an Officer !

So is the enemy and he's got a better uniform than you. You swine! he says, Touch my monocle, I kill you. Now take me to your Britisher mess for tea, two lumps and ein berliner Smile2

Or even a Baron... ok we're officially dreaming now

Victory is immediately confirmed whereas otherwise it takes a day or two to show up on the chalkboard

Nice, God I miss EAW almost, roll on the campaign-builder's SDK if there is one and make mine dynamic while you're at it. We don't ask for much. Cake mostly Smile2

Ming
Posted By: gonzlor

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/18/10 02:31 PM

Hey Ming.

I did hear about a new career mode in the works, I don't like the pre-made campaigns included, the single missions (of any flight sim) never hold my attention and the novelty of QMB's for me are only used to test new planes and patches.

I'm a career mode man my self, I'm holding out for a better career mode, even a dynamic campaign, actually it doesn't need to be that sophisticated, as long as it tracks your victories, that of your squadron, and allows for transfers and whatnot I'd probably be very happy, to better this I'd like a system where victories over the enemy will actually weaken and lessen their numbers, morale and ability to fight, (Think BoB2 to some degree) and successful bombing raids against installations used to manufacture parts of planes or planes would impact the availability of planes for the enemy for some time. Like an advanced dynamic campaign, I wish!

One thing is a must is to see some kind of enemy intel/airfields on a grand campaign map so you can see what's happening on a grand level, where the squadrons etc.
Posted By: Mogster

Re: Still a long way to go - 06/18/10 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: PatrickAWilson

I am afraid that if Neoqb can't make some money then we will never see them.


Agreed unfortunately.

From hints on the Neoqb boards there seems to be quite a few aircraft on the way none of which are the sort of common hack aircraft that historical campaigns require.

There's the 2 heavy bombers, Gotha and HP that we are aware of plus apparently about 4 more scouts, maybe a 2 seater that I suspect is the Brisfit.

I'd be willing to pay for a pack of say six obsy AI planes, although maybe others wouldn't. I suppose campaign mode could adjust things depending on what we have bought, but MP, more difficult I'd imagine.
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