Poor TrackIR 5 performance with SWFFB2 stick

I am running Vista HP with SP1. I have an i7 EE975 and 6 GB of RAM. My video card is a Radeon 4870 X2. I get very good frame rates at all times. However, if I activate FFB my TrackIR becomes very choppy eventhough my FPS stay well above 50. The motion of my plan and that of the AI is still smooth but my head movements are very choppy. When I turn off FFB my TrackIR is perfect. Has anybody else experianced this? Any work-a-round?

It seems to be a known conflict with no current fix. I understand that the devs are working on it though, as the problem is widespread (I have it too).

Me too. MSSWFFB Pro. I also have a very bad "lap snap", which is aggravating.

I agree it is very aggravating. Check out the string "FPS killers." Seems like many more pilots are having this problem. Another funny thing with the SWFFB2; try assigning the icons toggle "i" to one of the stick's buttons. Although the program shows the assingment it won't work in flight.

I've also got F12 (center Trackir) mapped to button 2 on my stick and it doesn't respond when I push it.

I have f12 mapped to one of my joystick buttons and it works fine. I couldn't use the TiR very well if it didn't. What do you do, reach for f12 on the KB every time you center the view?

I do notice it can be a bit iffy swinging around to rear view...I've had centering forever on button 4 & if I center at just the right place visavis head position it does help alot,but still not as smppth and forgiving as in Il-2 Fb PF.Hopefully neoqb or Track IR will come up with a simple fix...?

I'm using the same button to centre the view without any problems.

I've tested it with FF both on and off and there is no discernible difference (This is National Alliteration Day!) in FPS or performance. In fact, with FF off my FPS declined slightly. Went back up when I turned FF back on. Go figure.

As for mapping the TIR center button, I've not had any luck (TIR won't let me but maybe I don't know what I'm doing wrong) but I did move it to another key (up arrow instead of F12). After awhile, using it becomes intuitive and the location is very handy and easy to find.

So, the FF effect on FPS is not universal. Maybe it is limited to certain sticks. Mine is a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force, not an MSSwhatever. Wouldn't buy anything that begins MS

FWIW

HT

Thanks HotTom. Are you also using TrackIR? See, my problem does not affect the game's overall FPS; that stays smooth. The issues is with the peformance of TrackIR while also engaging FFB. When I do that, the TrackIR gets very choppy as if it is encountering micro pauses. The whole time my FPS stays constant. Therefore, the effect is only noticable when you move your head, not when you control your plane. I agree with your MS sentiment; I try to avoid the dark-side as well but the SWFFB2 is the best FFB stick ever made, IMHO.

Roger on TIR.

In fact when RoF (dontcha just luv acronyms?) first arrived, I had TIR3 w/Vector and upgraded to TIR5 (What a huge difference!). No problems with either using FF.

The time I have some TIR lag is playing in some (just a few, certainly not all) Multiplay missions. I suspect that is a problem with the host's server (there's no way to read the pings other than the colored icons, which don't really tell you anything).

Of the people who are having problems, I wonder what FF sticks they are using.

I really would hate to fly without FF because it serves as my stall warning (and I stall a lot).

BTW (!!!!) I think I have the same video card you do, so it's not a GPU (!!!!!!!!) thing.

HT

Agreed, it is not the GPU. From all the other posts I have read, I'm pretty certain it is the MS stick conflicting somehow with TrackIR. Seeing how they both work perfectly by themselves but not together.

Are you all runing any joystick software in the background as well?

Joysticks plugged into the PC, nect to the TrackIR camera?

What OS?

Hello Vincent,
Here is a complete list of my specs: CPU INTEL|CORE I7 EE975 3.33G; MSI X58 ECLIPSE SLI 1366 Main Board; MEM 2Gx3|CORS TR3X6G1600C8D; 2X SSD 80G|INTEL SSDSA2MH080G1 in RAID 0; CREATIVE SOUND CARD X-FI FATAL1TY; Vista 32 bit Home Premium.

Along with the USB TrackIR 5 and the SWFFB2 Flight stick, I also have a USB Mouse and Keyboard. The mouse, keybord and Flight Stick are using the USB hub on my Dell 2405FPW 24-inch Wide Aspect Flat Panel LCD Monitor. The TrackIR is directly pluged into the back of my PC. My fight stick has a seperate power supply that plugs into the back of the stick. I performed a clean install of Vista and loaded all current drivers. ROF is the only game currently on my computer. Any expert advise will be greatly appreciated!

Sorry, did not answer all of your questions: I do not have any joystick programs running. I only use what Vista loaded up by default when I plugged it in. I did verify that all buttons and axis where working in the game periphial screen. I do run the Logitech mouse software though.

Can't see anything there that would cause a conflict in general.

What happens if you run the TrackIR software, but unplug the TIR hardware?

If you are running the TrackIR software and turn off the device (F9) then there are no stutters. If you use the keys to pan around with TIR and FFB enabled you get no stutters. The only time the sim stutters with FFB and TIR enabled is when you look around using the TIR.

Yes i have MSFFB2 too and Tir 4, when i enable FF my TiR stutters badly, i mean game not stutter, only TiR when moving my head. FF off and all is smooth.

No backround Software

Win 64 Premium
I7 Core
Ati 4870x2

Kankkis

Has anybody with a TiR and MSFFB2 stick experianced the head stutter problem in any other flight sim? I only own RoF so I can't test it myself. My thinking is that if the two periphals work smoothty together in another game, we could narrow this down to a software issue with RoF.

All others what i have tested working nicely, IL2, Black Shark and FSX.

Kankkis

Works fine here, MSFF2 TIR5 software and hardware.

The only thing I see different in my setup from Mogster's is I run Vista instead of XP. I will try running RoF in DX9 mode tonight and see if that helps.

Over the years I have often been berated on forums for saying that my Logitech FFB stick works very, very well...Logitech Wingman Strike Force 3D.

Now, let me say that I have experienced none of the reported stuttering problems with TIR with my force feedback on. Also, I have had no problem assigning TIR Center to a button on my Stick...nor assigning any of the other ROF default keys to my 13+ JS buttons.

I had some difficulty with TIR when first flying ROF, but found that setting the Camera mode to Pan, and sliding the Camera Speed sliders to 50% and the "Inertion" sliders to 85% solved all issues.


See my detailed comments on the very new TIR 5.0 software in this other thread: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2840592/TrackiR_5_download_update.html#Post2840592

I believe the stuttering problem is only occuring with the MSFFB2 stick in conjunction with TiR on a Vista platform. Last night, I tried playing ROF in DX9 mode but that didn't solve the stuttering. However, DX9 does give much better performance without any visual differance. I recommend that anyone who is playing on a Vista machine use DX9. If my porblem continues, I may consider picking-up a Logitech stick.

Just when I was giving so much praise to this ROF, out of the blue I get a complete screwup of my TIR. ROF Mission started with a view of blue sky...NO way to re-center TIR...no way to get to a cockpit view of any sort. I've re-set controls in the Joke GUI settings of ROF, messed around in TIR settings, and re-started this ROF 20 times...no luck.

Edit

Edited to be more mellow.

Happened to me too at one stage. There is a reset-view button. F9 or something, that fixed it for me. I found the error was that I'd accidentally assigned conflicting commands to a single key. RoF doesn't like that very much.

Thanks for the tip/lead...

A decent manual for ROF would have helped on MANY issues, of course. In this case, I have discovered the F10 key. When in any view, hitting F10 resets that view as a default view...With TIR, that default view is the view you will see when re-centering. (Without TIR, I think the "Input...Camera:Player Cockpit" view will be set accordingly) After much trial and experimenting, I found that by selecting and adjusting your "cockpit" view just as you like(facing forward is helpful, for starters ), hitting F10 "Sets" that View forever, until you do the F10 reset again (Even exiting the game and restarting which I did many times, that view is Fixed until you do another F10 reset) So, after setting your desired cockpit view with the F10 key, your selected TIR re-center button will act as it should returning you to that view. Discovering how this works, while wastefully and needlessly playing around (again) with all TIR settings and ROF settings, I spent a good 7 hours or so.

Not knowing/understanding that about the F10 key, I was probably searching the sky above me in a Dogfight, reaching blindly for a friendly or enemy padlock key (F6/F7 for me, which I rarely use though) and must have accidentally hit the F10 key..locking that upward view to the sky and birds.

Okay...maybe it is/was in the manual somewhere...and I was too stupid to understand or notice it. Meanwhile, I've noticed in other threads frequent mention of using the F12 key for some similar purpose. Don't ask me to explain that!

Id disable FFB on my FFB2 to get a lag-free gaming experience. But I run it on Win7 with default drivers because I dont know of special sidewinder drivers. Now I can only disable FFB in the ROF Settings which also takes the centering force. But I dont want to fly my plane with a soggy banana in my hands and need to guess where the center is.
Any hints how to disable FFB without losing centering force... or even a better solution against TIR-Stuttering?

I have centering spring, but if i play first IL or Black Shark and then i'll load RoF there is no centering force at all with FF off, so before i launch RoF i must unplug MSFFB2 Usb and then plug it back, then i have centering force when i have FF off.

So before you launch RoF try unplug and plug joy.

But in OFF(over flander field game) i don't have centering forces if i have FF on or OFF, that's why i cannot play OFF3. with on i have forces but no centering spring in OFF3, but without FF RoF have centering force, but with FF on my TiR is so laggy that i cannot use FF.

By the way, there is no drivers to MSFFB2 anymore, not working after Win XP SP1.

Kankkis

Thanks Kankkis (like said in ROF Forums :D)

This did help, too bad "Se5a-fix" doesnt work anymore with this fix.

Does any of you FFB2-guys know why I can slightly hear and feel the FFB engines when I use the unplug/plug workaround? This doesn't happen if I use the stick like before (pluged from booting to shutting off)

I have allways hear and feel those FF motors

Kankkis

Really, never noticed that before... although he was always centered even on desktop because I had a little sticker on the light barrier which we included in our X36 handle, so the stick doesn't fall to a side while playing and using the keyboard for examplpe.
I removed this stick and noticed that I don't even need to unplug the stick before playing ROF. It works now also without. I guess I ll make a tiny moveable plate which can be draged over the the light barrier hole.

However, still curious about the vibrations... perhaps he begins to get old. I ll get over it

(Logitech G940? yummi....)

yep waiting G940 too, actually i don't need to unplug/plug either, only if i have played some other FF game before without restarting computer.


Kankkis

Btw one question to ones who have TiR stuttering with MSFFB - any chance to check it with other FF stick?
Also, can you try to test it without MSFF stick but with regular joy plugged in - is there still any TiR stittering present with FF checkbox in ROF settings.exe on?

Hey =FB=VikS,

I ll test your second scenario by unplugging the MS FFB2 usb controller. I ll still have the X36 and the Saitek pedals then. I don't need to fly for such a test.

First scenario is more difficult. The only other FFB controllers I own, are my PS3 controllers and the Logitech DFP racing wheel. However, for testing TIR stuttering even a Racing wheel should be OK.

I tried RoF with my MSFFB2 unplugged and it had the exact same problem with stutter. I then unplugged all controllers and there was still stuttering.

Viks i have Logitech Force 3D and tested it with FF on, no problems at all, silky as MSFFB2 without FF

Kankkis

I think it might be a good idea to list all of our plugged in joysticks/controllers

MSFFB2 joystick
X45 joystick and throttle
CH Pro pedals (game controller. non USB)
TrackIR 4 Pro

Only MSFFB2 = Stuttering with FF on, smooth with FF off
Only Logitech Force 3D = no stuttering with FF on or without FF

Kankkis

EDIT:Windows Vista 64, but what i have heard, XP has same problem.

yea, Kankkis sums the matrix up.
Have you been the guy with dualboot WinXP and Vista/Win 64 bit?
Then you could make the list of combinations perfect

Logitech Strike Force 3D = no stuttering with FF on or without FF

VISTA32
TIR4 Pro

Hmm, USB overload in some cases?

to 2005AD:
can you check USB host settings? its in system settings/hardware manager/usb host settings/power management - what is the settings?

Hi Viks, all my USB host devices are set to Power Management = OFF. In other words they will not power down. I have also tried RoF with all USB devices disconnected apart from a single joystick, mouse and my TrakIR and I still got the stuttering.

It seems to me that the Microsoft FFB2 joystick and TrakIR do not work well together in RoF. In all other sims they work perfectly fine.

That's sure, i have tested all possibilities, no cure.

and working like a charm with Logitech Force 3D with FF on but don't like the joy.

Kankkis

I tried a Logitech Force 3D a while ago when my first MSFFB2 died. It is a horrible stick compared to the MSFFB2, so much so that I bought two MSFFB2 joysticks off Ebay. I am still using the first and the other is kept as a spare.

Yep it's way too sensitive and too little movementrate.

Kankkis