Possibility of a port to a game console? (Xbox 360 or PS3)

Has this already been discussed?

If the PC version of this game is a success, I think a good direction to take would be to try to port it to a console. I know a lot of the flight sim market is for PCs, but from what I've been reading, less and less game developers in general are willing to release games on the PC because of the rampant piracy and loss of sales. They're turning their focus to consoles, where it's less easy to pirate games (unless you have a modded console). This also makes it much harder for cheaters to use hacks. I was reading a Red Baron 3D forum for active flyers, and even after 10+ years, they are still complaining about people using hacks in tournaments. That's really sad to me.

It's true that the graphics won't be nearly as good as on a PC, but if done right I think it will look good enough. Check out the high quality trailer for the very popular Ace Combat 6 for the Xbox 360:

http://www.gametrailers.com/streambuilder.php?type=wmv&streamtext=m:4580/t_acecombat6_h264

(you will have to copy and paste that link into your browser)

If the online multiplayer is done correctly, it could really be a hit. You might even be able to add some sort of ranking system where you can get unlockable weapons or equip your plane with different weapons. I'm thinking of the system Call of Duty 4 has in place, for those who have played it. The idea is that as you play and skill up, there's incentive to keep playing for new types of weapons and gear, which you can customize and select before battle.

I confess that maybe this is just a selfish post, since I'll probably be buying an Xbox 360 in a couple of weeks I also need to upgrade my computer, but it seems to me that more and more games are turning to the consoles, for better or worse, and I've got to get a console myself to keep up with the games. Plus I won't have to worry about my hardware specs - I've never been able to afford a top-of-the-line computer anyhow.

Hmm - another downside I hadn't thought of: users wouldn't be able to create content. One of the reasons Red Baron 3D is still being played (by a small group) is because of the available mods.

We cant give ya an answer right now.

Hmm that's mysterious :). Thanks for the reply

I've got a mix of PC's,Laptops and consoles in my house.
IMO opinion consoles are nowhere near being able to run a flight sim in the same way a PC can.
Maybe in the future but not now.
For a start can I plug the bear minimum joystick, throttle and pedals into one?
and Processing and gfx are always around 2 years behind a decent mid-to-high end PC.

Nope, consoles and flightsims, oil and water...... for now!

No it isn't. It's the norm. This IS KOTS, you know. Having no information is the way of things. -lol

Anyway, let's get it ported to a PC first! We've been waiting long enough!

A PS3 port that recognized my flight sim HOTAS setup plugged into the USB hubs would pretty well wrap up any use I had for Windows anymore. I plan to spend just about all my gaming time on KOTS when it comes out.

Updates can be downloaded for the system. Perhaps user mods deemed of certain quality or campaigns could be given to the devs and then packaged as an update?

Perhaps a custom peripheral package? It worked for Mechwarrior with that 3-way control set.

As long as it isn't dumbed down to accommodate consoles I'm all for it. Could be the first serious sim released for any recent console. Ace Combat does not count, sorry (although the graphics are something special).

S!

A serious flight simulator for a console cannot succeed. This is due to the extremely limited number of buttons on the controllers that the overwhelmingly vast majority of console owners use exclusively. That limited number contrasts far too greatly with the vast number of input functions required for a serious flight simulator.

No consoles for me. I much prefer being able to build and upgrade parts of my computer as warrented to improve a games playability. Complex flight sims are built with options that can be enabled as peoples computers improve. Making games for a console would definitely dumb down the content of the game.

That being said...A dumbed down arcade version of KOTS for console use could provide them with another source of income. BUT if they were able to make alot more money with the console version, it could coerse them to drop any further PC game developments. It could be the slippery slope to the end of our hobby.

What, in a WWI sim you only need a button for the machine gun. That's it

A WWI flight simulator? Most WWI simulators run to throttle, ailerons, elevators, rudders, bomb toggle and machine gun trigger. Easy for a console to manage. Perhaps KOTS will have something a bit more sophisticated in terms of engine management.

The major challenge would be view technology - no TrackIR.

No TIR..... port it to Nintendo WII

Mahoney, I said "serious flight simulator." A simulator where the controls consist of stick, rudder, throttle, guns, and bombs is not a serious flight simulator; it's an arcade game. As Chivas indicated, a serious simulator would have to be "dumbed down" to accomodate the pitiful console controllers, which would make the simulator no longer a serious simulator. That is why I made that flat statement about it being impossible for a serious simulator to succeed on a console.

New consoles have usb ports which can make such things possible, Keyboards in PS3's etc. The concept of a serious flight sim with off the shelf hotas capability is not far away. However, as I said above, processing power and graphic capability always lets them down. Until a console comes out that can seriously go up against a high PC then I'll always be looking at a PC for my gaming/siming.

You only have to look at the Car sim market to see that consoles have made an impact there.

Some interesting points of discussion!

Benny: I was skeptical myself, but the newer consoles allow for more input methods than just the standard controller. For instance, here's a Joystick and throttle control for Ace Combat 6 for the Xbox 360:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/21/hori-ace-combat-joystick-for-xbox-360-on-display/

Hmm.. I'm kinda freaked out by the parallel connectors, which I always had bad luck with on the PC. But there shouldn't be a problem with making a USB version I would think.

EDIT: Oops, curse my slow typing, Brigstock commented before I could

But how many people, really, are going to buy special hardware for their console just to play a serious simulator which also exists for the personal computer (which runs it better)?

The same people who buy specialist wheels for their XBox when the same thing exists for PC's.
I missed out on a gameseat, 360 wheel + pedals(gold plated pedals no less!!), gear stick and handbrake setup on eBay recently. Total outlay for this kind of kit is £500.

Checkout this site to see how serious the Car sim crowd are about their console racing
http://www.playseats.com/

We can't rule out consoles as viable replacements for PC's in the future. Game manufacturers like that standard platform to work with. A PC has a multitude of hardware configurations that can cause all sorts of problems with games. A console is uniform across the board. A problem found and solved on a console is a fix on every single one, not so with a PC.

I agree, the PS3 recognizes alot of devices that are originally not meant for it, I`m almost completely sure my Rudder and Joystick could be plugged in as well. (Though I dont have a ps3 right now, but it is ordered and should be here sometime next week.) A buddy of mine even installed network drivers for a different kind of network that he uses (Which utilizes normal power contacts in the wall.) And even though the software was meant for windows, it worked straight away.

All in all, I see some potential for atleast a PS3 (Unless 360 also possesses the same kind of feature.) And perhaps make the game unplayable unless you have a joystick (Which would eliminate the quick controls and reflexes that a console gamer normally has.) But as everybody mentions, first priority is have the game out at all. Just thought I`d toss in my 2 cents, thats all.

Thanks to the guys for those links above.

Interesting to see what peripherals are being developed for the consoles today.

Now that's retarded. For one thing, console controls are a handicap, not an advantage.

It all depends from what side you are coming from. My kids have a PS2 and a WII. They are very dexterous with those controllers more than hamfisted me. But give them a keyboard and mouse and they struggle. A good example is a game from Lego called Bionicles, they have that on PS2 they also have it as a demo on my PC. On the PS2 their fingers are a blur as they whizz through it, on my PC they really struggle. Using a mouse and keyboard is like trying to rub their stomachs and pat their heads at the same time, they aren't comfortable using the PC for gaming. I, on the other hand, am the reverse of that, pretty sharp with a mouse and keyboard and all fingers and thumbs on the PS2 controller.
It really does come down to what you are comfortable with and what you have grown accustomed to.

Okay, so when I finally get a keyboard, HOTAS, rudder pedals, and TrackIR to plug into my console, won't it just be a PC that uses as TV for a monitor?

One with proprietary hardware inside that I can't upgrade?

And why do I have a sense of deja vu?

Yep, and it's that reason that I still use a PC for gaming.
But I can see consoles getting more and more involved in the Sim world. Console games sell more and make more money for the game developers. We in the PC based combat flight sim world really are a tiny niche market in the billions of dollars global games world.
A good example of how things are changing is a few years ago your dedicated race sim fan would have his wheel and pedals plugged into his PC playing NasCar or GTL online with comms.
Now he can do exactly that with the XBox...online with comms and part of a global league of players all considerably cheaper than it would be for a similar PC based setup.

Don't get me wrong, I don't approve of consoles for my gaming pleasure, but I think the main reason I'm so resistant is because I'm also a hardware junkie, who loves the smell of new kit and the constant playing with settings to get the best from it all. Not everyone is like that.

If we look at your statement "so when I finally get a keyboard, HOTAS, rudder pedals, and TrackIR to plug into my console, won't it just be a PC that uses as TV for a monitor?"
Lets take the keyboard out of that.
You put the console under your TV. Plug in your hotas, pedals and TIR. Headphones and mic on yer head, pop in a disc..choose multiplayer and off you go.

Check out these links
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=12128
http://gameracer.co.uk/detail.aspx?ID=56
that XBox hotas is just a ported Saitek X45. Add TIR and Pedal Support all plugged into your 32" HDTV. It's a neat package and hard not to see the potential for future simming be it Car or Flight

Maybe if they made a Console with plug-in upgradable modules like a cpu module, graphics module, harddrive module, Peripheral module, etc...it may work for me.

Now that's such glorious irony Chivas nice one

Wait a minute you are talking about a PC aren't you

Ming

Just what I was thinking when I was typing it.

Although the idea may very well work for consoles, depending on the price point of the modules. It may even make the console more profitable, not to mention the developers would have much fewer variation in system setups to worry about.

and that is what appeals to developers, that and the fact that they can reach a much larger audience.

If only they made XBox Office, then I could use my console to do spreadsheets and presentations using my wireless XBox keyboard.

Btw, when are they going to make a friggin' wireless printer? Sheesh.

XBox office...that'll never happen. Just like MSOffice will never get on my "gamebox", nor will any media. I have a laptop with office and a mediacenter for media. My game PC does nothing but games.

XBox is a cpu/gpu/ram/hdd/dvd-rom in a box...so it's a PC, you can get an OS to install on it. Some of the Linux people have managed to get Ubuntu on them.

The only difference between and Xbox and my PC is that my cpu is twice as fast, my graphics are twice as fast, my HDD is twice as big if not more, because I've got watercooling it's half as noisy as an XBox and it's getting near 10 times as expensive!!. Other than that they are the same animal. I turn it on hit an Icon (IL2 Stab) and play a game. I finish I turn it off. 99% of my browsing/email are done on a laptop while sitting in a big comfy chair in me living room. XBox is a PC and my PC is an XBox how ironic.


BTW Dart http://www.ebuyer.com/product/120353 will do the job for your printer.

You have failed to indicate what would need to be removed for a WWI simulator.

I agree there's no way you could have a modern jet sim on a console. You probably couldn't manage a WWII sim. But a WWI sim? Seriously, what would have to be dumbed down?

In response to pitiful console controllers, they are that way because that is all they need at the moment. It does not mean that a console can't take more input from a controller. That XBox hotas, for instance, is an X45. That has 6 axis and a serious amount of possible inputs via the buttons. Enough for a Jet sim, easily enough for a WWII based sim and way too much for a WWI sim.
If consoles can up their hardware to current respectable PC spec's, which probably wont happen as they need to keep the cost affordable, there is no reason a Sim can't run on a console.

Well grab your dumbells, because we're here to help "pump you up"!

Actually, adding a Wii nunchuk to the PC would be appropriate for approaching the physical requirements needed to manage a WWI fighter.

Imagine changing the pan magazine on an Se5a in a dogfight? Stick in one hand, with the other unlatch the MG lock on the Foster mount and securely ease back the weapon with the lanyard, unlock the magazine and stow it inside the cockpit, grab a loaded drum and place it on the Lewis Gun, ensure it's locked in place, charge the weapon, and then pull the MG back up the rail till it latches again, all against a 100+ mph headwind, while maintaining control of ones aircraft, and avoiding the enemy (if possible). Try creating the animation for that, let alone the interactive control requirements in-game. Then make simmers do it every 97 rounds they fire off:



Note flare gun for signalling in the flight leader's hand in the photo above (gotta grab the nunchuck again).

Simple cockpit management requirements? Again the SE5a and its fuel management system:



Note the air pressure hand pump (nunchuck again).

We could go into greater detail on the methods of identifying the type of MG stoppages that occurred in combat for instance, and the procedures for physically clearing jammed guns in the air, or the proper positioning of radiator shutters to ensure correct engine running temps, or perhaps the requirements for adjusting the fuel lever setting vs. the throttle position to prevent lean or rich cut-out (and the need to do so every 1000 feet or so of altitude changed).

Those that think flying WWI aircraft was somehow easy are harboring grand illusions (mainly because they have no idea what was involved). Certainly these early military aircraft didn't have the array of switches, gauges, and buttons needed to monitor their flight systems, and that's just the point. They flew with brute strength, and managed much of their aircraft's systems by hand, in freezing temperatures, exposed to the elements, and without oxygen assist, and alone without a radio or guidance system to help them back home.

Actually, I don't even think our PCs now can ever do the WWI combat pilot's experience justice, and maybe giving us soft-butted simmers a little physical work to do in our combat games would be a good idea (a PC and nunchuck huh, I like it)!

I'm with you fly, but none of that is modeled in a flight sim. KotS hasn't mentioned it either. Although IIRC there was mention of them looking at drum reloading. We could also apply that thinking to WWII, grabbing the stick with the left hand while furiously pumping the gear up on take off, all the time trying not to wing over. For what is required for a WWI sim compared to a WWII or Jet sim, based on what we have available now, a WWI sim would definitely require less inputs.

While it is a good idea to model all the physical sides of flying it is not possible. Although I haven't flown a WWII combat aircraft, it has been likened to a formula one car. To fly a WWII aircraft required quite a lot of strength and endurance too. The G-Forces would leave a pilot absolutely drained after a dogfight, many pilots lost a lot of weight during the summer of 1940.
In short as to the dumbing down of anything, remember the limitations of any controller on a console lie purely with the controller or the game, not the console.

Less inputs doesn't mean less difficulty. Who works harder, a roofer or an accountant (that outa start some howling).

Perhaps someday all aerial warfare will be managed through robotics, or by sitting behind a monitor with a joystick and keyboard in hand (then will have technology made combat flying easier, or more difficult)?

The point is, as you and others have made, no one ever wants their sims "dumbed-down", but made manageble within the limitations of their game-playing systems.

What you, or I, or others think is "manageable" will always vary anyway.

What I'm saying is anything a PC can handle in terms of inputs a console will be able to do. Dumbing down is the wrong terminology. We must remember that the console is a computer it is limited by it's CPU and GPU not what it's controller can do. A console standard controller is designed the way it is because that is what is required, those same controllers plug into a windows box. People here are talking about "dumbing down" based on what a controller can do or not do. That is not a real issue. What is an issue is the processing/graphic output of a console, but that is getting better. Any dumbing down would be on graphics and the complexity a console could handle.

What is manageable is not debatable and wont vary. Most games can be ported and the content edited to produce acceptable playability. We will have no say in what we find acceptable. But then again the developer of the product can make those decisions knowing that it will work across the whole of his customer base, because everyone has the same kit.

And with consoles is a whole lot easier to manage than with the variations of hardware & OS configurations involved with our PCs.

Give me a good gaming box that I can play sims on, and I don't care what it's called.

(we spend way too much on our rigs in order to play games we'll complain cost us $50 )

My wife totally agrees

Over the last two years I've spent in excess of £2000's on my PC. What does an Xbox cost...£180.

LOL Brig, mine too!

I could have gotten a complete John Cooper Works performance package for the MINI Cooper, for what I've put into this gaming rig!

(a lot safer behind my PC anyway)

Hey, you had mentioned WWII aircraft in the context of piloting skill required, and that reminded me of what Air Chief Marshal Leigh-Mallory called the "finest piece of airmanship thus far in World War II", and it didn't involve fighter combat, nor a bombing mission, or landing on a pitching carrier deck, or any such thing.....it came at the hands of Staff Sargeant Wallwork, C Squadron, Glider Pilot Regiment, leading three wooden Airspeed Horsa gliders carrying assault troops to a pinpoint crash-landing next to their D-Day objective, the Canal de Caen bridge near Ranville, Normandy. On Wallwork's shoulders (and wings), rested perhaps the success of Operation Overlord, or at least the security of the British seaborne landings in France, for he was charged with flying into combat the lead Horsa that fateful night, on a one-way trip into enemy occupied territory, to enable his assault troops the best chance of seizing their objectives as soon as possible, with minimum casualties, so they could prevent the Germans from flanking the English beacheads as the day dawned. He landed exactly as planned, no touch and go possible, and all stick and rudder!

Btw, Dad was a glider infantryman in the US 82nd Airborne Division during WWII, so I'm apt to be a bit sympathetic to the history of the glider pilots.

This explains a few things FR, I'd Salute! you if we were in uniform. Your Dad too

Ming

Thought I'd post this here, since this seems like the appropriate thread

Russian publisher 1C has announced their first two upcoming games for consoles: Captain Blood and a game I'm sure you've heard of: IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey.

http://www.1cpublishing.eu/news/1c-is-coming-to-consoles

This is exciting, especially if it has a USB joystick support. But what's even more exciting is that KoTS might see the light of day on consoles as well. There's an old rumor/unofficial piece of news that 1C will be publishing KoTS (see http://wwiaircombat.com/articles/knights-of-the-sky-russia-publisher-1c), at least according to NaturalPoint.

If you read the first page of this thread, VikS doesn't confirm or deny KoTS on consoles, so it leaves open the possibility!

Anyhow, either way, I'll be looking forward to playing IL-2 on my 360, along with Tom Clancy's H.A.W.X. Still want to get a nice WWI sim on consoles though!

Sturmovik on Consoles, Frank have you not ventured into any of the IL2 boards
That information has not gone unnoticed. The IL2 boards across the globe pretty much went into melt down over the weekend. It was quite entertaining

Edit: Thanks franksvalli!

Dave, having a console(s) port for KOTS would be unexpected, but then that's the sort of innovation that this hobby genre of ours needs for its future health and wealth.

Haha, I'm a bit out of the loop when it comes to IL-2 stuff. I heard it first through Kotaku, then a friend gave me a different link with the announcement today, so I thought it was time for an update.

Yeah, I can see that KoTS will be just on the PC when it's released, but depending on its success, I can see an Xbox 360 or PS3 port sometime after that being at least a possibility.

Well, it's fun to dream anyhow