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#3840141 - 09/21/13 03:40 PM Flight modelling: The basics and editors?  
Joined: Jun 2001
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Col. Gibbon Offline
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Hi Guys.

With Ralf AWOL, there is nobody, other than Ray, who knows anything about editing the flight files and the current tools to use.

Can anyone who knows, please post the basics to get started?

You never know there might be someone interested in doing some work on these important files for the game. wink


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#3840197 - 09/21/13 05:34 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
Joined: Feb 2006
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Rotton50 Offline
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Actually, AngleOff knows the new flight editors better than I do. Haven't heard from him a a bit though.

I'm sure I could get up to speed as the basics are the same so if you can't get a response from AO let me know.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#3840204 - 09/21/13 05:53 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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MrJelly Offline
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The editors are now in a "FEForJG.zip" file in your folder.
The unzipped folder contains "Airgrid 2010_splitpln.exe" which is the split "Planes.dat" file editor.
It contains a "JelsFEdit2010.exe" program which is a "*.flt" file editor. This program needs the "FDataDet.TXT" file which is also included. Unfortunately it is not the most up to date one which Ralf has.
I have also included the "WFPlanes" folder which I made for Ade.
The files that the two editors read are in the "SLOTxyFM" files.
For example in the "SLOT00FM" folder there is a "TWFNieuport 24_FM" folder, which contains the "PLANE00.DAT" file and the "p38h.flt" file.
You will need to navigate to such a folder to select a file for the editor to read.
Do not ask me how to use these programs. I wrote them for Ralf.
Here are a couple of screenies of the two editors with the FNieuport 24 files loaded




I think that AO has been trying to do some editing for WW1 and that he might have the more recent "FDataDet.TXT" file.

wink Jel


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#3840210 - 09/21/13 06:08 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: MrJelly]  
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AngleOff Offline
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First, you need Jel's FEdit to edit the .flt files.
Then, you need Airgrid_2010 to edit the planexx.dat files,as the
.flt and planexx.dat files go hand in hand.

The .flt file settings are under these settings:


FLT!!!!
-----------------

1.number_of_engines

2."engine_type //00=PROP, 01=JET, 02=ROCKET"

3. Engine best at this altitude
Since we only have one of this values its difficult to simulate two or tree stage
supercharger, so this value cant always be on the real best altitude to get a good
result.

4. Powerslope Lower Altitude Section

5. Powerslope Upper Altitude Section

6."number_of_blades? 3 blades=0.006, 4= 0.007, 5=0.009, Jets=0"

7. Eng torque mult
The engine in a real plane have a inclination downward to let the engine work again the
Lift/AoA, this is necessary or the plane would need a extra big trim.
This value work similar, i never changed it, cause it influence the Speed and climb extreme.

8.Throttle max
9.Throttle min
10.Throttle rate
11.El max
12.El min
13.El rate
14.Flap max
15.Flap min
16.Flap rate
17.Ail max
18.Ail min
19.Ail rate
20.Rud max
21.Rud min
22.Rud rate
With the values above you can adjust the stickinput, but you also can do this with some
following values.

23.Max alt

24.Max vel
Probably this value shal simulate the drag of the propeller above Vmax. The drag of a
Prop increase above Vmax, cause it cant rotate faster due to enginepower, so it work like
a break. In the game It feels like the plane fly into a rubberwall, but the drag dont
increase endless, like it should, after roundabout 100km/h the drag stop to increase.
This value is a bit strange, cause we also could set this 'rubberwall' with the 'dragcurve'.
If this value get setted to low(close to zero), the EAW-onlinegame get damaged. I set
this value most to the Vmax at seelevel. This value is in IAS!!

25.max AOA

26.critical mach
This value seems to be in TAS

27.max g
28.min g
I dont see results if i change these values.

29.Spinrotationspeed
This value let the plane spin faster or less fast. At zero the planes dont spin at all.

30.mass empty 0,0685214 x kg (Take off weight minus fuel!!)
31.mass fuel 0,0685214 x kg (This value seems to be only AI-related, look to planes.dat below!!)

32.Inertia Aleron x
33.Inertia Elevator y
34.Inertia Rudder z

35.Torque 1 Inertia zy Spinrelated
36.Torque 2 Inertia xz Spinrelated
37.Torque 3 Inertia yx Spinrelated
This values are most difficult, i haven't found any logical relation, but these values
influence the spinbehaviour.

38.drag stab 1 AI related
39.drag stab 2 0,008104:(m²:wingspan+wingspan) <-formula for rp2.3
40.drag stab 3 Flaps
41.drag stab 4 Power 2,25 x HP <-rp2.3 formula, cant be exact, cause different
Propeller effectivety!!
42.drag stab 5 Gear, drag while rolling on the ground


43.sideforce stab 1 rudder damping due to speed
44.sideforce stab 2 Side force due to yaw rate
45.sideforce stab 3 Enginerelated
46.sideforce stab 4 Enginerelated
47.sideforce stab 5 Enginerelated
48.sideforce stab 6 Enginerelated
49.sideforce stab 7 Side force due to deflection of rudder
50.sideforce stab 8 ??

51.lift stab 1 Lift
52.lift stab 2 Lift due to AOA rate(only for AI´s)
53.lift stab 3 Related to aileron deflection
54.lift stab 4 Lift due to pitch rate(only AI??)
55.lift stab 5 Lift due to elevator deflection (only AI??)
56.lift stab 6 Flaps

57.roll stab 1 Rolling moment due to sideslip (dihedral effect)
58.roll stab 2 Roll moment due to roll rate(roll damping)
59.roll stab 3 Roll moment due to rudder
60.roll stab 4 Rolling moment due to aileron
61.roll stab 5 Relationship unknown
62.roll stab 6 Engine torque -0,0873x HP/([wingarea/wingspan]+wingspan)rp2.3 formula
63.roll stab 7 Engine torque
64.roll stab 8 Engine torque
65.roll stab 9 Engine torque

66.pitch stab 1 Reference moment at zero AOA
67.pitch stab 2 AOA related (only for AI´s)
68.pitch stab 3 Related to aileron deflection
69.pitch stab 4 Pitch moment due to pitch rate (damping)
70.pitch stab 5 Pitch moment due to elevator
71.pitch stab 6 Related to flap deflection

72.yaw stab 1 Yaw moment due to sideslip
73.yaw stab 2 Yaw moment due to roll rate
74.yaw stab 3 Yaw moment due to yaw rate (damping)
75.yaw stab 4 Yaw moment due to aileron deflection
76.yaw stab 5 Yaw moment due to rudder
77.yaw stab 6 Yaw factor related to engine thrust/torque
78.yaw stab 7 Yaw factor related to engine thrust/torque
79.yaw stab 8 Yaw factor related to engine thrust/torque
80.yaw stab 9 Yaw factor related to engine thrust/torque



81.size 1: Start of lookup table data (5 sets)
In EAW always = 10(T1-T10), i dont know if more are possible


82.Responsecurves:

dx 1 No idea about this
inv dx 1 No idea about this
zero x 1 No idea about this
T1 1 Drag Factor curve, speedrelated
T2 1
T3 1
T4 1
T5 1
T6 1
T7 1
T8 1
T9 1
T10 1
This curve need to get adjusted after the weight, power, fuelweight(planes.dat),
Drag due to AOA and Lift(1st Liftvalue) got adjusted. Adjust this curve by adjusting
the speed at the Power related altitude. Best is to have the sea leve lpower, cause
there its most easy to fly horizontal. To have reliable realistic power- and speed-
datas is most important !!


size 2
dx 2
inv dx 2
zero x 2 AOA-Lift Factor curve,speed related
T1 2 -28,35 x m² rp2.3 formula
T2 2 -28,53 x m²
T3 2 -28,84 x m²
T4 2 -29,27 x m²
T5 2 -29,88 x m²
T6 2 -30,55 x m²
T7 2 -31,34 x m²
T8 2 -32,56 x m²
T9 2 -33,96 x m²
T10 2 -35,79 x m²
This curve is probably only wing area related.

size 3
dx 3
inv dx 3
zero x 3
T1 3 ELEVATOR CONTROL RESPONSE CURVE
T2 3
T3 3
T4 3
T5 3
T6 3
T7 3
T8 3
T9 3
T10 3
This curve is pretty subjective, cause we only have subjective comments about this.
Often we dont have any infos.

size 4
dx 4
inv dx 4
zero x 4
T1 4 AILERON CONTROL RESPONSE CURVE
T2 4
T3 4
T4 4
T5 4
T6 4
T7 4
T8 4
T9 4
T10 4
This curve is pretty subjective, cause we only have subjective comments about this.
Often we dont have any infos. Most rollratios are made with a constant stickpower of
50lb (22,7kg), but thats not very much for a normal strong pilot, so the real rollratio
can vary much!!

size 5
dx 5
inv dx 5
zero x 5
T1 5 RUDDER CONTROL RESPONSE CURVE
T2 5
T3 5
T4 5
T5 5
T6 5
T7 5
T8 5
T9 5
T10 5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The rest of the .flt file is Gundata/ hitbubble/velocity etc. location and size, landing gear, and damage data.

Then there are the planexx.dat data:

Planes.dat!!!
--------------------

Here only the not self explaining values!

1.Stall-, Cruise-, Corner- and Max-Speed#
This values are NOT FM values!! This values represent the 'AI-knowledge'!
Example: Tell the AI the stallspeed of his planes is 300km/h and he will fly the plane
not very often below 300km/h(most a AI cant land then!).

2.Weight of fuel
This value is the ONLY FM-related planes.dat value!!
This weight + the empty-weight in the flt = take off weight

For WWII fuel count: fuel weighs 7.2lbs per Gallon (UK) or 0.76 kg per litre


3. Fuel Burn Ratio
This only count for full power, less power = less fuelconsum!!

fuelweight(fw) = 100 (45kg)
Fuleburningratio(fbr)= 100
Flying time = 16minutes with full power
Double fuelburnratio = half time
Double fuelweight = double time
fw-value 375 (170kg) : fbr-value 100 (2,833kg/min) = 60min flyingtime.

fbr-value = 35 = 1kg/min (this isnt exact, but 34 is to less and 36 is to
fast)

So a Me109G with 296kg(value 653) need a fuel burnratio of
4,9kg/min(value173) to fly 1 hour with full power, but thats not possible
without overheating.


4. (Plane)Code
This value set the flt and skin, which get used with this planes.dat values.

It is possible to create a planes.dat where all planeslots use the same flt and skin!!

5. Pln No(planenumber)
This number say for which planeslot this planes.dat-datas be. Its the 1st value of all!
If you create a Autoscript with Airgrid.exe, you can change this avlue and so this Autoscript
get switched to a other slot.
So if you change also the Planecode, the whole plane got switched into a other slot!

For the flyable rp2.3 default-Bombers(ju88, Ju87, B17 etc) i use the default skins, but a
different slot for the planes.dat to fly them. The Ju87 for example is flyable from the
FW190A slot, so in the 190A8-planes.dat-section you will find 'Ju87' as planecode.

6. External default
Unknown value!

7. Collisionradius
The name say it all, if its to big, you cant land and take off.

8.Max range

I dont have much experiece here, but this value let EAW choose droptanks if needed and
let the AI´s return to base. For now thats most to late, so they crash if the distance
to target is to far. Iam sure its possible to adjust this value, so the AI´s return
in time( if the day only would have 36 hours :-/ )

9. Empty weight.

Dont influence the FM, i think this value get displayed in the briefieng as empty weight.
======================================================================================================

To make new .flt files involves a ton of trial and error and guessing.
Even thou there is a line description for most values, the description is not always
correct for what it actually does. Then, some values effect other values, forcing you to adjust one
value at a time and test in-game. For instance, while trying to make WWI fm's, I had to adjust the
'powerslope' at lower and upper altitudes in order to get a WWI aircraft to lift off the runway sooner,
and the 'number of blades' setting to get to take-off speed sooner. But changing these settings also
effected the 'max velocity' and the drag stab 4 (power) setting. If you change any one of these lines,
you usually have to adjust the others too. (Not to mention 'mass empty' and 'mass fuel.')
The amount of time it takes to experiment with ONE .flt file and get it 'sorta' right, is more time than
I can put into it. The only way anyone can dedicate the necessary time it takes, is to get 'paid' to do it.
That is the only way anyone can sacrifice family and work time.

I use to have a ton of extra time.........not anymore.......alas....

AO

#3840232 - 09/21/13 06:54 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,341
Col. Gibbon Offline
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Hi AO.

How do you convert RW values? In all the books I have. there is only basic information on the DH-1.

I expect most of the detailed data has been lost over time.


Supports EAW 1.29.exe, Drop in and Play Technology. wink

1.29 download
#3840235 - 09/21/13 07:08 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,341
Col. Gibbon Offline
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Great! banghead

I have no FTP access. Not that I can even find it!!! nope

Please email me the files. wink


Supports EAW 1.29.exe, Drop in and Play Technology. wink

1.29 download
#3840260 - 09/21/13 08:42 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,261
AngleOff Offline
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AngleOff  Offline
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Posts: 1,261
PA., USA
Col.,
I put both tools in your folder at the ftp:
ftp://ftp.powweb.com/

You should still be able to use your password. If you lost it,
post at the Gen and Moggy can get it for you, or use mine or
someone elses. Just post a request.
http://mogggy.org/TheGen2/

Don't know what a DH1 is.......crap.........RW? (Real World?)
I have alot of partial stats for many WWI aircraft.
Example:
Fokker DR.I Specifications
Country: Germany
Manufacturer: Fokker Flugzeug-Werke GmbH
Type: Fighter
First Introduced: August 1917
Number Built: 320
Engine(s): Oberursel UR.II, 9 cylinder reciprocating, 110 hp
Le Rhône, 9 cylinder rotary, 110 hp (from captured aircraft)
Wing Span: 23 ft 7 3/8 in (7.19 m)
Length: 18 ft 11 1/8 in (5.77 m)
Height: 9 ft 8 in
Empty Weight: 893 lb
Gross Weight: 1,289.2 lb (586 kg)
Max Speed: 103.12 mph (165 km/h) @ 13,120 ft (4000 m)
Ceiling: 20,013 ft (6100 m)
Endurance: 1.5 hours
Crew: 1
Armament: 2 Spandau 7.92 mm light machine guns
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are a 'few' formulas listed on some of the lines in the editor.
Example:
drag stab 2 0.008104:(m²:wingspan+wingspan)
drag stab 4 Power= 2.25 x HP
mass empty 0.0685214 x kg
mass fuel 0.0685214 x kg
=======================================================================================
Anyway, anything I got, your welcome to.

AO

#3840268 - 09/21/13 09:00 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,859
Rotton50 Offline
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Rotton50  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,859
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Probably a bit different for WWI because you're really starting from scratch but in some cases you can start with a similar plane and modify it until the EAW flight dynamics match the real world specs.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#3840492 - 09/22/13 01:44 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,248
PeterMBooth Offline
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Pontypridd, South Wales,UK
Hi AO and Col G,

DH1/1a was an earlier and somewhat bigger version of the DH2 - same layout but a 2 seater with gunner in front and pilot behind in a longer nacelle.1x 120hp Beardmore water cooled inline engine (1a) The Mk1 had a 70 HP Renault until the Beardmore became available. Date for 1a -span 41ft length 28ft 11.25 inches, height 11 ft 2 inches take off weight 2340 lb, max speed 88 mph at 4000ft ceiling 13500 ft, endurance 2.5 hours. Single air cooled Lewis on flexible mounting.About 100 built but only 73 issued to RFC, mostly for Home Defence and later training although 14 Squadron used 6 in Palestine from summer 1916. If you want to know more just ask.

Pete


With increasing age should come wisdom and tolerance, but as the saying goes, "there is no fool like an old fool" as I prove regularly!

#3840757 - 09/23/13 06:07 AM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,610
Knegel Offline
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Hi AO,

the flt value describtion is way outdated and dont fit to the new flight and damage engine.

Somewhere on the ftp i once did upload the current data file for the flt editor.

Greetings,
Knegel


If you think `thats close enough´, go closer, until the plane fill up the windscreen, then a short burst is enough!
#3840876 - 09/23/13 04:16 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,261
AngleOff Offline
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AngleOff  Offline
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PA., USA
Hi Ralf,
this is the latest one I have. (I have a few statements in ()
that describe the line better for me:
Detail
number_of_engines
"engine_type //00=PROP, 01=JET, 02=ROCKET"
Engine best at this altitude
Lower Altitude Section (More directly related to speed)
Upper Altitude Section
"number_of_blades? 3 blades=0.006, 4= 0.007, 5=0.009, Jets=0"
Eng torque mult
Throttle max
Throttle min
Throttle rate
El max
El min
El rate
Flap max
Flap min
Flap rate
Ail max
Ail min
Ail rate
Rud max
Rud min
Rud rate
Max alt
Max vel
max AOA
critical mach
max g
min g
Spinrotationspeed (STALL MOMENT)
mass empty 0,0685214 x kg
mass fuel 0,0685214 x kg
Inertia Aleron x
Inertia Elevator y
Inertia Rudder z
Torque 1 Inertia zy Spinrelated
Torque 2 Inertia xz Spinrelated
Torque 3 Inertia yx Spinrelated
drag stab 1 AI related
drag stab 2 0,008104:(m²:wingspan+wingspan)
drag stab 3 Flaps
drag stab 4 Power 2.25 x HP
drag stab 5 Gear
sideforce stab 1 rudder damping due to speed
sideforce stab 2 Side force due to yaw rate
sideforce stab 3 Enginerelated
sideforce stab 4 Enginerelated
sideforce stab 5 Enginerelated
sideforce stab 6 Enginerelated
sideforce stab 7 Side force due to deflection of rudder
sideforce stab 8 ??
lift stab 1 Lift
lift stab 2 Lift due to AOA rate(only for AI´s)
lift stab 3 Related to aileron deflection
lift stab 4 Lift due to pitch rate(only AI??)
lift stab 5 Lift due to elevator deflection (only AI??)
lift stab 6 Flaps
roll stab 1 Rolling moment due to sideslip (dihedral effect)
roll stab 2 Roll moment due to roll rate(roll damping)
roll stab 3 Roll moment due to rudder
roll stab 4 Rolling moment due to aileron (ROLL SPEED)
roll stab 5 Relationship unknown
roll stab 6 Engine torque -0,0873x HP/([wingarea/wingspan]+wingspan)
roll stab 7 Engine torque
roll stab 8 Engine torque
roll stab 9 Engine torque
pitch stab 1 Reference moment at zero AOA
pitch stab 2 AOA related (only for AI´s)
pitch stab 3 Related to aileron deflection
pitch stab 4 Pitch moment due to pitch rate (damping)
pitch stab 5 Pitch moment due to elevator (PITCH SPEED OR RATE)
pitch stab 6 Related to flap deflection
yaw stab 1 Yaw moment due to sideslip
yaw stab 2 Yaw moment due to roll rate
yaw stab 3 Yaw moment due to yaw rate (damping)
yaw stab 4 Yaw moment due to aileron deflection
yaw stab 5 Yaw moment due to rudder (YAW SPEED)
yaw stab 6 Yaw factor related to engine thrust/torque
yaw stab 7 Yaw factor related to engine thrust/torque
yaw stab 8 Yaw factor related to engine thrust/torque
yaw stab 9 Yaw factor related to engine thrust/torque
size 1: Start of lookup table data (5 sets)
dx 1
inv dx 1
zero x 1
T1 1 Drag Factor curve, speedrelated
T2 1
T3 1
T4 1
T5 1
T6 1
T7 1
T8 1
T9 1
T10 1
size 2
dx 2
inv dx 2
zero x 2 AOA-Lift Factor curve,speedrelated
T1 2 -28,35 x m²
T2 2 -28,53 x m²
T3 2 -28,84 x m²
T4 2 -29,27 x m²
T5 2 -29,88 x m²
T6 2 -30,55 x m²
T7 2 -31,34 x m²
T8 2 -32,56 x m²
T9 2 -33,96 x m²
T10 2 -35,79 x m²
size 3
dx 3
inv dx 3
zero x 3
T1 3 ELEVATOR CONTROL RESPONSE CURVE
T2 3
T3 3
T4 3
T5 3
T6 3
T7 3
T8 3
T9 3
T10 3
size 4
dx 4
inv dx 4
zero x 4
T1 4 AILERON CONTROL RESPONSE CURVE
T2 4
T3 4
T4 4
T5 4
T6 4
T7 4
T8 4
T9 4
T10 4
size 5
dx 5
inv dx 5
zero x 5
T1 5 RUDDER CONTROL RESPONSE CURVE
T2 5
T3 5
T4 5
T5 5
T6 5
T7 5
T8 5
T9 5
T10 5
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
AO

Last edited by AngleOff; 09/23/13 04:35 PM.
#3840907 - 09/23/13 05:16 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,261
AngleOff Offline
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AngleOff  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,261
PA., USA
Also, as an example of making a .flt file for a DR1, I started with
an SE5 .flt file. But I did not start my work with the plane in the air.
I started my work with take-off. I had to make the plane lift off much much sooner
and at about 60mph.
After much experimenting, I was successful when I changed the upper altitude section
and number of props settings. However, these had to get adjusted with the max velocity,
mass empty, mass fuel, and drag stab 4.

Then I noticed if I took off with other planes, they were all crashing into the ground after
the first turn to direction. After adjusting drag stab 1, the AI stopped crashing and stayed
with me.
Then I started trying to fine-tune the max speed, climb, roll, pitch, yaw rates. Insane amount
of time spent changing a number and jumping in and out of the game......

Then the plane would stall easy. I finally got it to calm down with a setting of 0. This setting
should be called 'stall-moment' instead of 'spin-rotation-speed.' Seems to have more to do with 'when'
it stalls.
Would you be able to look at my .flt file for the DR1?
Thanks,
AO

#3841503 - 09/25/13 02:34 AM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Knegel Offline
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Hi AO,

your file is way outdated.

Spin rotation speed is realy what it is, if you set it to zero the plane wont spin at all, even not if it lose a wing.
How easy a plane stall depends on several values like in real life.
1. Elevator curve(the elevator effectivity related to the speed).
2. The basic elevator force.(pitch stab 1)
3. The weight to wingarea relation.
4. The max AoA.
Also several yaw and roll values and the torque values innfluence the stall/spin behaviour.
I think like in real life almost all values influence the stall/spin more or less.
The more important values are listed above and i did invent a Stall edge value, but without the documents i cant say which one it is.

Greetings,

Knegel


If you think `thats close enough´, go closer, until the plane fill up the windscreen, then a short burst is enough!
#3841510 - 09/25/13 02:54 AM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,610
Knegel Offline
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Posts: 8,610
btw. the "lower altitude section" is related to "engine best altitude" same as "upper altitude section".
Actualle they are called "powerslope below/above best altitude".
At best altitude the engine power is equal dragstab #4(actually its propeller thrust). With the slope values you can increase/decrease the thrust below/above best altitude.
Its logical that the engine lose power at altitude. The behaviour in lower altitudes is engine spcific. Some Engines without supercharger or ram air effect have their highest power often near ground level. Most aircraft engines are made to bring more power in higher altitudes(as high as possible). So there is a rated altitude, the altitude where the engine offers most power, without ram air effect and other speed related influences.
For the ram air effect i did convert some more values, so its importent to get the latest data file.

Last edited by Knegel; 09/25/13 02:55 AM.

If you think `thats close enough´, go closer, until the plane fill up the windscreen, then a short burst is enough!
#3841618 - 09/25/13 12:41 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Ralf,
where can I get the latest data file?
Thanks,
AO

#3841842 - 09/25/13 10:25 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Guys,
I'm having a problem with AI.
I'm taking off from a grass field with 12 Neiuport 24's.
I'm on autopilot. Planes always turn toward target heading when
they reach 300 feet.
My problem is that at least 4 AI always swing wide and turn low
and stay in the low turn until they crash. However, if while taking off
I make a call for all to 'regroup' they all turn good and join me.

Why does the regroup call make them correct? I had the same problem with
the DR-1, but when I adjusted the drag stab 1, they all make it without a regroup call.
(Although a couple come real close to crashing.)

The regroup call seems to make them do something exe related. The drag stab adjustment
makes me think that I have something adjusted wrong for AI flight control.
Zheeez! I wish I knew what was what!@

AO

#3842389 - 09/26/13 11:50 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Had a free day today to play with this but..........
there are just too many variables to adjust and to many unknowns.
Unless I can get some comprehensive notes and explanations, I'm just
fartin in the wind. What few notes that were given really lack in translation.

Quote:
7. Set the number of blades to 0,06.(this is actually the propeller efficiency, but this value shouldnt get touched for now, cause it influence the FM calculation is a very strange way.


Set the number, but the value shouldn't get touched for now........bit of a contradiction.
But for WWI aircraft, you HAVE to change this setting!
Quote:
If the plane is to fast, you lower the plane drag, if its to slow, you decrease the drag.

For me, lower and decrease mean the same thing, so dont know how to adjust this.

And here's one of my most confusing favorites:
Quote:
Byte c8 Lift (also e0 and 104 h) Wing area. Increasing the absolute value (e.g. -600 to -700) increases lift.

I am seeing a negative value, (-600) changed to a negative value, (-700) so the absolute value was actually
decreased by -100. (By the way, increasing the value does increase lift. If you have -600 and INCREASE the
value to -500, you increase lift.

The positive and negative number settings do not always make sense, and certain lines that are supposed to be
calculated, have numbers that are nowhere near what the calculation should be.

I do not think that anyone is gonna figure this out without Ralf's guidance. The trial and error curve (slope?)
is too steep. lol! So unless someone can get TK to give a line by line description/explanation, I'm done trying
to mess with fm's. I'm just spinning my wheels.......was fun when I was younger, but now I drive like an old dude.
AO

#3843067 - 09/28/13 09:51 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Hi AO,

i did need 6 years or so without code and 5 with code an "recoding" to get a good idea how to create fms and dms in a good and relative fast way. I did spend around 1000 hours per year into it(probably more, but not just fm/dm-ing).
from my point of view its hopeles for someone else to do more than a few changings/adjustings on already existing fm's.
Still i need probably one week for one absolute new FM and another week for the DM.
Iam realy sorry, but the real life situation for craftmens in germany is not what it was 10 years ago. Also in germany we have much less money, so i have(dont want) to spend my time into real life work, to be able to feed my family.

The best you can do for the WWI setup is to use the Fokker DVII and Se5 i once made and adjust them to create somewhat fitting FMs.

Greetings Knegel

P.S.: 4 of the 12 Ais return to base or crash cause the distance between you and the last wing is to long. If you slow down while take off and afterward, all will work normal.
In most cases this is caused by a wrong ai undercarriage setup. If the Ais got a higher wheel drag, you will take off way faster and gain a to high distance.


If you think `thats close enough´, go closer, until the plane fill up the windscreen, then a short burst is enough!
#3843069 - 09/28/13 10:03 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Hi Ralf.

Are those two flight files in the new format? If so, can you please email me a copy? I'd like to try and make a file for my DH2, and Fokker EIII. smile


Supports EAW 1.29.exe, Drop in and Play Technology. wink

1.29 download
#3843267 - 09/29/13 01:11 PM Re: Flight modelling: The basics and editors? [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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Ralf,
totally understand the 'real life.' yep
and I thank you for the response. I will look into the
AI undercarriage setting. (Of course, I dont know which one it is,
but probably a 'drag stab' setting. lol!)

AO

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