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#4114586 - 05/01/15 10:32 PM What do you want in a naval sim?  
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VMIalpha454 Offline
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Hi everyone,

Recently I was sitting around thinking about how much I would love for a great naval sim to be released and what a "great" naval sim means to me. I sat down and made an outline for what that sim would be and then began wondering what all of you think as well. So, what would you like to see in a naval sim? What would make it great? What do you feel has been done right, and what has been done wrong, in the sims we have available?

To me, there has always been something lacking in the options we have in this genre. I'm sure its a small niche, but it seems a passionate one. I have enjoyed some of the games available, but most often feel that they just don't quite measure up to my hopes and expectations. I think my personal favorite has been modded SH4.

So, I'm curious about your thoughts!


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4114796 - 05/02/15 12:10 PM Re: What do you want in a naval sim? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
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Depends whether you mean a simulator in the sense of a flight simulator and control of one ship or a tactical simulator where you control a fleet.

I liked Jutland but it was very unpolished and it did lack something.... with better controls and smoothness it could have been really something. But their was literally nothing to do but do the total war style move units into range of each other and make sure all your guns were facing. To make matters worse there is no cover or interesting terrain to factor in.

For first person style naval sims I think silent hunter was a good one. I still have to reload silent hunter V actually.


Last edited by Destraex; 05/02/15 12:22 PM.
#4114856 - 05/02/15 03:30 PM Re: What do you want in a naval sim? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
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I kinda agree. I would have brought Jutland if it had more polish. The same goes for Steam and Iron where Polish=
Graphics and sound . My favorite so far has been Silent Hunter III. With that said, Naval Action does look attractive.

#4115005 - 05/02/15 10:39 PM Re: What do you want in a naval sim? [Re: Destraex]  
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VMIalpha454 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Destraex
Depends whether you mean a simulator in the sense of a flight simulator and control of one ship or a tactical simulator where you control a fleet.


Well, for this question I consider both to be appropriate definitions. I am interested in your personal preferences. What you like, what you dont like, and what you wish was a part of them.

In the interest of furthering the dialogue, I will summarize what I would like to see, personally, in a naval game. I will go ahead and apologize, because this will be a long post.

First, though, a word on "simulator". It seems to me that most games which are called simulators focus on replicating the systems and characteristics of the machinery within the scope of the game. Unfortunately, this is usually at the expense of a true rendering of the human experience of the topic. For instance, many flight simulators accurately model the systems, flight characteristics, and physics of their aircraft, but place a low priority on simulating the experience of a pilot flying that aircraft during the war. To me, the latter is just as important as the former. The following is my outline for an ideal destroyer simulator:

1st person perspective: By utilizing this viewpoint the player would be placed into the Captains shoes. 3rd person and views outside the ship could be incorporated as well.

Move throughout the ship: A Captain is able to move around on his ship and so, too, should the player. The player should be able to explore the various areas throughout the ship, interact with crew members and officers, and command from the bridge the same way the Captain would have in real life.

Voice Command System: The Captain commands his vessel by issuing verbal commands to his crew. By pursuing this novel approach to control interfaces the feeling of immersion would be enhanced for the player, and allow for a more streamlined command experience. Imagine giving commands by voice while looking through your binoculars from the bridge wing.

Detailed ship systems: It should attempt to model the entire ship and its systems, the end goal being not only to allow for ultra realistic possibilities of control but also for accurate effects from damage.

In-depth crew management: The Captain of a destroyer is not only commanding a ship; He is responsible for leading hundreds of men as well. The player should be able to nurture the morale, efficiency, and esprit of his crew and see how it impacts the ships performance in action. From assigning gunnery drills to arranging to bring the latest movie aboard, crew management should be a big focus in the game.

Realistic environment: Part of being in the Navy is traveling to new and exotic places. The game should attempt to accurately model the various locations in the theater in order to make you feel like you are really there. An accurately modeled sea, including varying ocean states, accurate chart depths, currents, and tides, as well as being visually realistic is very important. Accurate wave effects on the ship must be modeled. Additionally, the player should even be able to navigate in the game by using the stars and a sextant.

Multi-Role assignment: Operate as a radar picket, part of a screen, in an anti-submarine warfare role, as a plane guard for a carrier task force, rescuing survivors in the water, as a direct surface combatant, replenishment at sea, transfer personnel at sea, conduct shore bombardment, act as a DMS or APD, or tow a vessel in distress. Any role possible for a WWII destroyer should be available to the player.

Accurate and detailed ship models: Meticulously researched and detailed ship models are essential in a naval simulation. Accurately represented classes of ships, identifying details of individual ships within the same class, appropriate camouflage schemes, and unique markings should be incorporated.

Performance based recognition: Awards and promotions should be performance based. You should be able to distinguish yourself and your ship and receive promotions and/or awards. You should be able to assign awards to crewmembers who distinguish themselves.

Command a DESRON: Ideally, the highest rank achievable in the game would be Captain (O-6). As the player is promoted, additional duties could be attained. At the rank of Commander (O-5) the player could become eligible to command a DESDIV of approximately 4 destroyers. A DESRON consists of two DESDIVs. At the higher ranks, the game could take on a more strategic perspective, while still allowing the player to interact with the world from the 1st person.

Dynamic Campaign: The players actions should impact the computers decisions. Likewise, the computers decisions should dictate the missions assigned to the player. While I'd prefer it to be historically based at the outset, the career should not be scripted and should develop differently every time it is played.

Realistic ship handling: A lot of the challenge of commanding a ship is mastering seamanship. With practice and patience the player should be able to experience what it means to truly be the Captain of a warship.

Functioning Crew: The crew should be accurately represented and carry out the duties assigned for various tasks. The crew should work to make the ship function.


So, what are your thoughts?


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918
#4115101 - 05/03/15 03:52 AM Re: What do you want in a naval sim? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
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I would have to go with Tactical

#4116092 - 05/04/15 10:42 PM Re: What do you want in a naval sim? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
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From the perspective of someone who develops naval games for a living, I have to say that taken as a whole the list posted above is crazy in terms of scope and ambition and would be impossible to develop in any reasonable timeframe without a AAA team and budget. IMHO you can have maybe two or three of those features and build a game in reasonable time within a reasonable budget. For our upcoming North Atlantic sim, we chose to focus on tactical combat, a dynamic campaign and authentic models and environment as far as was possible with a 2+1 man team.

Personally I thought Great Naval Battles was a great concept and it was a big inspiration to us along with TF1942.

#4116191 - 05/05/15 04:04 AM Re: What do you want in a naval sim? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
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VMIAlpha, I agree with most of what you suggested, though would counter that a dynamic campaign would be less suitable for a historical DD sim, in as much as DDs very seldom did independent cruises in the way that submarines did.

Originally Posted By: Evil Flower
For our upcoming North Atlantic sim, we chose to focus on tactical combat, a dynamic campaign and authentic models and environment as far as was possible with a 2+1 man team.


What sim is that?

Last edited by Nimits; 05/05/15 04:05 AM.
#4116225 - 05/05/15 06:36 AM Re: What do you want in a naval sim? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
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Sorry, forgot the link.

Atlantic Fleet

#4118952 - 05/11/15 02:40 PM Re: What do you want in a naval sim? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
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I want "Dangerous Waters" re-released with current DX 11 graphics and the ability to save multiplayer missions.

I'd gladly pay $60 for that.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4122039 - 05/19/15 09:11 AM Re: What do you want in a naval sim? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
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For me it would depend on whether you are controlling an individual ship, or controlling the entire battle. Also, this is focused on WW1/WW2 naval actions, as that is my preference

For an individual ship:
Lots of control over the ship, especially movement (control of individual props to control turning, etc.).
Meaningful captain decisions such as going to red alert, sealing off areas of the ship, counter-flooding, sealing people in doomed compartments if needed to save the ship.
Along with the above - highly detailed damage model, both for friendly and enemy ships.
Accurately modelled gunnery, including range-finding and range-keeping methods for the ship in question.
Some degree of autopilot (e.g. 'Helm! Keep us on station with the lead ship) so I can focus on the larger part of the battle.
Realistic spotting levels! I want to spot things at 25km out, and see smoke on the horizon from even further.
Good graphics - I want to be able to visually ID enemy ships, and also have complications from things like smoke drifting in front of your view. Along with this, different compartments are key. Bridge, Turret view (unless no local control is possible), spotting platform.

For controlling the entire battle:
A good level of AI control, preferably scaleable. Being able to let the AI handle any destroyer swarms makes a lot of sense. Steam & Iron does this pretty well, but I would like a few more controls - things like 'take station ahead', 'take station abeam', 'prepare to ward off enemy attacks', 'conduct cautious attack', 'conduct aggressive attack', and so on.
A workable gunnery model. It doesn't have to track each shell, it just has to provide good results.
A workable damage model. It doesn't need to be as detailed as the single ship game, but needs to have enough detail.
Good fleet commands - probably set up before the mission, you can pick fleet deployment and formations.

For both:
Good enemy AI! One thing that stopped me playing Jutland is some of the awful AI algorithms. If your force has a higher point value than the enemy, they know that as soon as they spot a single ship, and turn to run. The AI should only react to things it can see, and things it can reasonable know about.

There are more things, but that should be a decent list for now.

#4124070 - 05/24/15 02:39 AM Re: What do you want in a naval sim? [Re: VMIalpha454]  
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VMIalpha454 Offline
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Toaster,

Sounds like you and I are on the same page, especially with the individual ship scenario.


"I have only two men out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
1stLt. Clifton B. Cates, USMC
in Belleau Wood, 19 July 1918

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