A recent break from airsoft saw me re-installing many of my beloved sims onto my newish PC (Quad core CPU but budget GPU), plus trying a few new ones. On the air combat front, I found IL2-46 looking better than ever but still with much the same uninspiring SP campaign, awful droning external engine sounds, and very limited ETO/RAF coverage; plus all the other old irritations still there (tedious wait-your-turn, desert-dust-cloud takeoffs, sniper AI gunners that smash my 109G's gunsight thru 90mm of bulletproof glass etc). So this time, I stuck to CFS2 (much better Pacific coverage, decent addons like Dambusters & Mig-v-Sabre) and CFS3 with the truly marvellous ETO Expansion pack (same old awful campaign map but all the RAF flying I could ask for, and much, much more besides) with a separate CFS3 install for other addons like Firepower, Memphis Belle and Mosquito Squardon. And I re-installed the fantastic Battle of Britain 2/WoV and revelled in its peerless AI and its unsurpassed recreation of the Summer of 1940, plus B17 - the Migthy Eighth, still the 'non plus ultra' for flying and fighting a WW2 bomber.

To provide my WW1 fix, Flying Corps Gold I could not get running in Vista 64 but good tho it was, I always preferred RB3D with its great planeset and immersive campaign; so I set up two installs, one with the Hell's Angels Superpatch and the other with Full Canvas Jacket, and a third with Western Front Patch to follow. And I re-installed OFF Phase 2, which ran a bit better on my newer PC (tho with the poor pre-Phase 3 AI).

I never really got into Falcon 4, being more of a survey sim person; so for my jet fix, I reinstalled Strike Fighters. With the latest patches and set to 'use advanced shaders' this looked a lot better than I remembered it (good tho that was!). So I also installed Third Wire companion titles Wings over Vietnam and Wings over Europe, which I'd bought but rarely played, and was similarly impressed, starting with an RAF Hunter Cold War campaign and enjoying the beautiful planes, detailed airbases and nice terrain, and finding the SP campaign a lot more fun than I'd remembered it from SFP1.

So it came to pass, that I decided also to dig out and dust off my copy of First Eagles. When it came out, I'd not been especially impressed. The planes looked quite good but the planeset was quite limited, the terrain was not bad but seemed a bit artificial and the AI and 'plane go boom' damage models seemed rather weak. There also seemed to be some jetsim leftovers, best left out of a WW1 sim.

So I wasn't expecting too much when I re-installed First Eagles. But I'm VERY glad I did.

I soon found that, like the other Third Wire sims, the current patch does more than just make FE Vista-compatible; it updates the already-good visuals. The planes have dynamic shadows (more important in a WW1 sim due to the upper wing), the same great internal and external 3-d models, specular lighting, and better textures, including accurate squadron and individual markings (the 'decal' markings look a lot better than those in IL2). With subtle but effective lighting and fog effects, the landscapes look a LOT better. Roads, towns, villages, airbases, rivers, bridges, are all there and look better than ever. Clouds and weather effects look great, too. 'The Lines' and trench systems look quite good and the villages nearby look realistically knocked-about.

A few quick combats soon showed up other improvements. The AI and damage models were much better. For example, planes now rarely blew up; AI pilots exhibited a variety of skills; and 2-seater gunners were no snipers, but a much more realistic threat than in RB3d. The comms menu was now limited to what a WW1 pilot could achieve via flares, wing-waggling and hand-signals. I found the sim's open structure meant I could easily hand-edit or otherwise turn off features I didn't like. The stock planeset was adequate for 1917-18 and there was a thriving community at CombatAce with many extra planes, campaigns and other mods freely available.

Flight models are still forgiving in 'normal' setting. At 'hard', they remind me of Flying Corps Gold; for example the 'adverse yaw' from the Camel's rotary makes a right turn fast but turning left can pitch the nose up hard. I always found the RB3d flight models felt decidely underpowered and OFF's Phase 2's a bit unresponsive, especially to aileron even with coarse rudder. In First Eagles, the FMs feel just right. My only real-life stick time is about 10 hours with Cessnas with similar HP, different otherwise I know, but I do expect a plane's nose to go fairly smartly where I point it, except at the edges of the envelope.

So far so good, so I kicked off a couple of FE campaigns. I was pleasantly surprised to find that, just as in RB3D, I could choose to fly with a wide variety of real squadrons, operating out of the bases they'd flown from at the time of the chosen campaign, whose names I remembered from all those WW1 books on my shelves, be it 46 Squardon from le Hameau, or Jasta 5 from Boistraincourt. My plane was in nicely-rendered authentic unit markings - when with Jasta 34b, we had red-nosed silver-white fuselages, and with Jasta 5, red-edged green tails. In the external view, my pilot turned his head to scan and study his instruments, and when I fired, my Spandaus' cocking handles moved, as did the cartridge belt into the breech. Engine and other sounds were good, apart from the lack of 'wheel rumble'. The airfields looked just great, nearly as good as in OFF; some with mostly tented hangars, others with wooden ones or other buildings. Planes were often lined up on the flight line, sometimes with the 'sqaudron hack' 2-seater as well as the scouts.

Flying a mission, I was always the flight leader and appreciated the basic but effective squadron management - I could review available pilots and their records & skills and choose how many and who to bring along. I could also vary most waypoints. Missions assigned seemed to be a realistic mix. The planes didn't take off in a conga line; and my wingies would roar off first if I dilly-dallied. As we took off, I could see other planes taking off from or returning to nearby airfields.In the distance, observation baloons could be seen hanging in the sky near the Lines.

In campaign mode, I was soon reminded of RB3d. Other flights, friendly and enemy, were obviously going about their business - most often, scouts on patrols or escorts, 2-seaters on recce, close support or bombing missions. In WW1, British AA fire ('Archie') produced whitish bursts and German, black, and with the targeting aids off or turned down, the sight of clusters of black or white puffs blossoming in the sky was usually the first warning I got of enemy aircraft. Just like the real thing!

AA fire seemed limited to guns rather than MGs but while the ground war 'ambience' may not be up to OFF standards, I have seen quite convincing ground combat, for example British tanks having broken through at Cambrai, machine-gunning German positions and coming under German artillery fire.

Air combat in First Eagles I have found to be exhilirating and alternately satisfying and scary. I have learned the hard way to keep below or behind the tail of a 2-seater, and not just to trade shots with the observer as I could in RB3d - if I find myself in his sights I break hard down or away - once you see him staring at you from behind his goggles, if he can he'll shoot and his muzzle flash could be the last thing you'll see! As for scouts, some can be relatively easy meat, which I can stay with as they jink desperately. Others can be more deadly foes. Sometimes we see them first, sometimes they hit us while we are stalking other enemies - I have also learned the hard way not to assume the SE5s, RE8s or Camels whose tails I'm working my flight into a position to dive down upon, are the only enemies in the vicinity, and to look around frequently! One moment the sky can be a whirling mass of planes, like a scene out of Hell's angels, the next moment you are on your own. Aircraft are rendered well enough that in a dogfight, you can quickly see who's who and dash to aid a friend with a foe on his tail, but woe betide you if you don't watch your own!

In WW1, planes were frequently 'forced down' to a force landing and this is well replicated in FE. Depspite lacking parachutes, not all my unit's planes listed as shot down will have pilots killed. FE lacks some of the nice little touches of sims like EAW (the Nissen hut with the squeaky bunk and the radio for example) but, more than IL2 for example, there is enough there for you to take an interest in your squadron mates and their survival and performance, before and after missions, and to worry whether GHQ is going to send you those replacements before your squadron is burned away in the fires of war.

I was so impressed with FE that I bought First Eagles 2 and it's better again, with for example plane wrecks at crash sites, improved squardon markings (Jasta 5's individual markings now include real Jasta 5 ones like Hippel's dragon, not just generic individual symbols) and better performance (FPS) to boot.

So there you have it. I'm VERY glad I didn't judge First Eagles from its state on first release. I want a WW1 fiight sim that gives me the feeling I get when I read the WW1 air war books, watch the movies (good and not-so-good) and build the models, balsa and plastic. First Eagles gives me that feeling, in spades. It's now a really good-looking, brilliant and immersive WW1 flight sim. RoF may be the best simulator of 'flying WW1 planes' but from what I can see, FE not only looks pretty darn good, it does a rather better job of simulating 'flying a plane in WW1', and doesn't need a top-notch PC to do it. FE can be flown as a 'sim-lite' but with 'hard' settings, that is really a misnomer. In terms of its historical accuracy and content, which are really top notch, it is anything but light. It'll be joined on my PC by OFF Phase 3 when I get my new graphics card but even then I am quite sure that I will continue to relish flying First Eagles, and to be very glad I didn't write it off, but gave it a second look.

Ditch First Eagles. First Eagles 2 is much better. Outstanding graphics compared to the first one.

I've had First Eagles 2 for a couple of weeks now and am gradually transitioning from FE1 to FE2. I see improvements in several areas but not massive ones. FE2's graphics and gameplay are better that FE1's but only markedly so if you compare against FE1 without the latest patch (I also have 'UseAdvancedShaders=1' in my FE1 config which may further narrow the gap). Updated, FE1's graphics are pretty outstanding to my eye, FE2's are just a bit more so, at least on my budget 9300GS card. FE2 is marginally better all round, for one thing the greater view distances make navigation and orientation a lot easier and more satisfying. Nice that FE2's plane crashes now leave smoking wrecks, too. Out of the box tho FE2 doesn't seem to have seasonal terrain for one thing. They're both great sims to my mind, and with the level of well-researched historical content including bases, planes, unit and personal markings and campaigns, it's a dis-service to the effort Third Wire put into it, to call either a 'sim-lite' just because it has some easier options you can have on (or off) and because of its SFP1 origins.

This is a description I gave a friend over at CombatAce the other day, of a couple of exhilirating late-night missionsin FE2 the other night.

"I started a Sept 1918 Meuse-Argonne campaign in one of the few Jastas flying DVs, Jasta 62s or some such, red & black tails. Not a good idea to pass up on a DVII at that stage in the war, especially as combat in FE2 seems somehow more deadly than in FE1; but I do like my V-strutters. Had to resurrect my pilot after target fixation got me killed early on but was more cautious after that.

The FE2 skies seem more alive than ever and my war-weary Jasta has few pilots, most pretty green; so I quickly got into the habit of taking fewer rather than more on sorties and taking more time to choose the best targets before taking my flight down. Managed to survive one really hairy mission. Was steering my vic of 3 between two air fights marked by Archie, one at the same level, the other a little lower, reluctant to engage the higher as it was just over the lines, but reluctant also to go for the lower one as I was wary of getting jumped on the way down by some of the SPADs in the other dogfight - those Yanks are keen as mustard!

Then I spotted some black airbursts low down, at my 2 o'clock - a German airfield under low-level air attack! So I veered over and lost a bit of height, sensing more suitable prey. Getting closer, I could see 2 planes, now breaking away and heading home, Salmsons by the look of it. Nothing else nearby. So down I took us, in a long sweeping, diving turn, intended to bring me in below and behind them (having learned to be very wary of the observer's return fire in First Eagles).

As I got closer, I saw a parting salvo from the AA fire tear some important parts off the rearmost enemy plane and down he went. The other one would be mine. I ordered my two comrades to attack, thinking they would cut the corner while I came up 'von unten hinten'. Looking round to watch, I saw them instead peel up, away and back - into a couple of SPADs that had come from nowhere I'd seen and were now swooping down on us.

A moment's hesitastion - my comrades would have to look after themselves; I would carry on after the Salmson. I got some hits in the first pass but he jinked and bored on, gaining some ground as I peeled away nervously, openly afraid of return fire. I had trouble catching up again but got a few more hits from some longer-range bursts, weaving every time he jinked or turned, to keep out of the observer's field of fire, but still taking a few hits myself when I saw those twin muzzle flashes winking. I managed to close the range slightly and got in another burst, just as some rounds whacked into me from above and behind - the SPADs were onto me again, determined to save their comrade! But the Salmson had also been hit, hard this time,and was curving down, trailing smoke, towards our reserve trenches - finished I hoped, but I no time to watch! I was near the deck myself, low on ammo, damaged, and there were 3 angry SPADs above and behind me. Time to go home!

I broke away at full throttle, right down onto the deck and raced away. Two of the SPADs fell behind a little but the leader kept up, and I jinked slightly from time to time to put off his aim as he rained down short bursts which kicked up the dirt ahead or on either side. An airfield suddenly loomed up to my right, and I chopped the throttle and landed quickly, with another burst hitting around me as my wheels touched. Hah! Relieved, I looked around while I waited impatiently for the airfield's AA to return the favour, then realsied why they were taking their time engaging the SPAD - the planes lined up in front of the hangars over there were...more SPADs! Throttle open and off I went again; evidently my pursuers were as surprised as I was by the latest turn in events and I got off untouched and even made up some ground. More hedge-hopping got me to the Lines and then finally to a German aerodrome. By then, first two, then the last of my tormentors, had given up at last, and banked around and away. The release of tension was palpable; to escape myself, then find my kill confirmed, and just as good, that only one of my rookie pilots was downed but had emerged unhurt!

Just to end the night, I flew a last mission, four of us this time, and was rewarded by a tense but successful combat against those verdamtter SPADs, of which by great good fortune I got 3 and a comrade another, with no losses on our side. I literaly punched the air when I got home and saw the results - I knew I'd got at least a couple but had feared more losses from another really hairy fight that could just as easily have gone completely the other way. Phew!"

I can't remember the last time I got a buzz from a combat flight sim like I'm getting now from First Eagles, 1 and 2.

First off, FE will always have a special place on my hard drive. I've had some great "white-knuckled dogfight" times with it. The community is indeed a fine thing to become a part of as well, and all the 3rdwire products are meant to be modded and personalized. You don't have to beg a dev to do this or that, you do it yourself... Loved that part.

However, one thing I could not get over is the canned mission layout where the action always happens at waypoint 5. If you happen to deviate and follow an earlier encountered hostile flight and didn't do your duty at waypoint 5 then you are unsuccessful. After a while it started to get quite repetitive.

Sadly, as far as I can tell FE has fallen by the wayside and will not grow from TK's further efforts.

From what I can tell, the 'success/failure' mission outcomes don't matter much. TK himself said as much, that the object was mainly to survive. It seems quite possible to score well, husband your unit's planes and pilots and maybe even have the campaign go well enough for your side, regardless of whether you get a fail or a success. Doing damage to the enemy, even if not your primary target, seems to matter.

I have also found that while if you 'warp' to the objective you will generally hit action there as if there was nothing en route, it also happens that if you fly in real or accelerated time (and the former is quite possible given the short distances) you are quite likely to encounter the enemy en route, too, which came as a very welcome surprise. Sure you may get a 'fail' if you engage them and ignore your final objective but no big deal.

Most combat flight sims seem obsessed with this notion of resolving your mission into a success or a failure, which to me seems simplistic, unrealistic and a distraction, especially for fighter combat. At least FE doesn't seem to make a big deal over it. I'd rather it wasn't implemented at all, but I find I can just happily ignore it in FE; instead, I have learned to judge my success for myself, in terms of the survival and scores of myself and my squadron mates.

Thanks to its good basic qualities, the inherent modability and the many extra planes, campaigns and other stuff available already, I don't think TK/TW needs to do a lot to support the product and FE/FE2 can probably live on its merits for a good while yet. The disappointing thing, to me anyway, is that it seems not to have got the attention and recognition its features and content deserve, perhaps starting from the lukewarm reviews it got at the outset from people who seemed to write it off as 'another TW sim lite' without playing it long enough to understand or notice, and then missing out on the updates which built on that.

Ya, that's so true. When I play TK's sims, I don't pay any attention to "mission successful" or "unsuccessful." I guess I ignore it in every combat flight sim, including DCS: Black Shark. I just want to fly, be immersed in whatever era I'm in, have fun challening combat, and be alive at the end. All these years, I've never gotten involved with or cared about stuff like dynamic campaigns.

Is it Multiplayer?

First Eagles, which contrary to TW's own site runs happily on Vista, if patched to date, had multiplayer - not sure if it's still active - but it was dropped from FE2. The AI in FEG/FE2 is in many respects superior to either OFF or RoF, dogfighting being one of the TW sims' strengths, tho, so sP is rather good.

FE runs on Win 7 x64 as well.

Great thread! I own SF2 Vietnam, Europe, and Israel, and I've been contemplating FE2 but haven't read much on it.

You guys have sold me on it. I'll pick it up next time I'm raiding the Third Wire site for goodies. I love the Third Wire sims, even if I like to complain about the choices for DLC planes now and then, LOL!

Eventually, I hope to own everything Third Wire offers.

Cheers!

Rick...

From Plainsman......I just want to fly, be immersed in whatever era I'm in, have fun challening combat, and be alive at the end.

FE2 certainly does that along with Wings Of Vietnam patched to Yankee Pirate.........Total immersion 100%

Thirdwire products IMHO are very much underestimated and deserve much more support.

S!