Well, Well... StarForce say they have a forum where people can post questions they have about their product.

2 days ago I joined the forum (under the name `spider252`), and posted the question "How can I be sure StarForce is removed if I delete SH3 ?"

StarForce have DELETED this thread, it seems they are only a `good news` company and do not want this type of discussion (what price freedom of speech ?)

The question still stands "How can I be sure StarForce is removed if I delete SH3 ?

So come on Mr StarForce answer my question, put your PR `face on` and stand-up and be counted.. or are we only now finding out what you`re really like ?

(I hope the moderators of this forum do not start deleting threads they find awkward)

Beating a dead horse here. We already know starforce sucks. Next.

Steam, OTH, is our friend.

Hmmm. Not sure what happened there spider252. I will tell you that they have come into the StarForce thread sticky (as you know), and posted the link to their forum. In addition, they have been very forthright in soliciting our questions about their product. I have just recently submitted those, so we need to give them an opportunity to review them, etc.

I would caution not to be too quick to judge. I know there's some ill will about StarForce, as Operator illustrates, but also think they're trying to help. Did you repost the question? Perhaps it was a inadvertant error.

I believe there is a small app that removes StarForce after you have deleted SH3.

As to our forums, we don't delete threads that are "awkward". We may delete them for rules violations, in the opinion of the Moderator or Admin. I would think at 239 posts you would know that.

20mm... I`ll wait and see what SF say, I did check their forum and the last time my post was `active` there had been 67 views - the next time I checked the post was gone ??

I`ll give odds that they come back and say "oops... slip of the finger"

I was pointed in the direction of the application to remove SF (think it was Kail )

I apologize if my post caused anger with SimHQ moderators/admin that was not my intention, my anger lies in another direction.

Starforce, unfortunately, isn't dead.

I will, however, keep beating it until it is.

This may seem like an old tired worn out discussion to many, but for me its new and relevant since I've finally purchased SHIII (waiting for delivery). I've been reading up to see if there've been any new developments these past few months, but alas I'm getting the picture that nothing's really changed - SF causes problems for some and doesn't cause problems for others.

I seem to recall that Eagle Dynamics released a patch to remove SF from their Lockon Flaming Cliffs (I could be wrong though since I don't have it). I guess I'm just fantasizing that the same thing will happen with SHIII.
Lev.

Starforce isn't removed from Flaming Cliffs. They released a patch to remove the 5x install limitation.

Thanks Gloucester.

SimHQ's has always been quite straight forward about their rules....and I have much respect for 20mm and all the MODs here. I try to follow the rules of any forum I visit. But I also try to get my POV across at the same time.
I don't normally post at UBI forums... ...but as this 'Starforce' problem has me seriously worried about the future of simulation games, I have much invested in this hobby so I have been posting in all the Starforce threads, here, SubSim, and UBI. But I keep it down to one, or two posts in any thread. NOT spamming anything.
But....
My last post at UBI on the SHIII forum was this below;
----------------
"Just wondering....how many people own computers who do not have access to the internet, but installed a 'Starforce' game on their computer.

And now have no idea what is wrong with their DVD/CD burners, CTD's, etc...etc....

They uninstall the game....but still have 'Starforce' and their 'hidden drivers'....and their grief goes on....and on...and on.. :rolleyes: .

Nice move Starforce"
----------------------

Then I got an E'Mail, stating I had been banned from their forums, for.....'spamming'????
Not signed by any moderator. I was never advised or warned about anything.

Odd.

I have been posting at flight sim and political forums for about 8 years, I have NEVER been banned, from anywhere, until that post.

Be advised.....the tentacles of 'Starforce' may be reaching much farther than we know..... . It appears 'someone' is certainly trying to 'silence' people who speak out against it.

Interesting.


......The 'fat' lady has not sung quite yet.

Murphy... Very true, but I think `somebody` is trying to steal her songbook

The tool to remove SF can be found on my site http://www.silenthunter.dk ->Sh2->Downloads

Wow, sorry to hear that Murph. Seems like a legimate question to me. I sent the list of questions to StarForce and they sent me back an email advising they're researching them.

In the meantime, I'll forward this question as well. I frankly hadn't thought about the situation where someone had the game but no internet.

Geez, "internet prejudice", I guess I assume everybody has it!

Well done 20mm. We can't stand by and let RoboCop be treated this way.

Thanks 20mm for taking the time to deal with star force on all our behalf. I’ve not had any problems with SH III or Starforce, but I’m very concerned…I’ve not used my CDRW to back up any data yet…honestly, I’ve been reluctant to try it for fear of screwing something up…thanks again and lets hope they respond soon

Thanks for the kind words guys.... ....maybe I should've just stayed here, at home.
I don't normally venture far, but I figured where else to voice my concern but at UBI, home of SHIII.

But it appears they don't like anti-starforce posts, even if the post doesn't violate the rules. I mean, it isn't like I started a 'Starforce' thread or anything, I just posted in it. I suspect there is much pressure from 'Starforce' and UBI's marketing people, which is reasonable. But the wrong way to solve a problem IMHO.

I think this one is going to bite them on the butt. If I'm right about this, it may do great harm to the gaming industry, if 'Starforce' type programs are not outlawed quickly, and with much fanfare. The damage will be permanent.

I understand some type of anti-pirate programs are necessary to stop software piracy, but not this. Most adults, with problems burning CD's, will just tell their kids...no more of those frikkin' games on my computer....period.
Most adults that play simulator games will just....quit buying the new ones.
That leaves.....nobody.

I have IL2/FB/BOE/PF....runs great. CFS3, I haven't even touched in years.
I was going to upgrade my gaming computer for Olegs B.O.B.
But not now .
If Starforce isn't gone by that time, I'll be fading away from current gaming.
And I'm not alone .

They should have just charged more for the good games. I'll never be able to figure that one out.

Murphy... You`ve managed to put into words what IMHO the `silent majority` are thinking.

It might just be a "game", but how many people have upgraded their systems to cope with the latest "games" ? So, if people stop buying the latest games then they won`t have a need to upgrade their system or buy accessories (joysticks etc)

As you said, something has to be done soon because as you know, once a company gets a bad name for itself then it`s a very long road back to regain public confidence in a product.

I have just bought my last item of software from a `certain company` (AEP for IL-2), no more `till this gets sorted. Like you I was going to upgrade my system - but there`s no point now.

Does anyone know...is starforce on the IL2/Pacific Fighters group of games? I know it is on Silent Hunter 3. My problem is that I had all the Ubisoft flight games IL2 thru Pacific Fighters and never had system problems. When I installed SH3 things suddenly but slowly started to slow down and not work on my computer. System startup got slower, burning/backing up data to CD's and DVD's started not to function properly. I since reinstalled Win XP and all my work software plus the flight sim games and things are working quite smoothly. I haven't and probably won't install SH3 for fear of goofing up the system again.

Is there anyway to install SH3 and then get rid of Starforce and still play SH3?

" Most adults, with problems burning CD's, will just tell their kids...no more of those frikkin' games on my computer....period.
Most adults that play simulator games will just....quit buying the new ones."

I think that seems to be the problem.

I currently use two computers. One is a old p2 hooked up to the internet with nothing but an o/s and web tools. The other(offline) is the one I do my work on and sometimes play a few games. Usually, there is only one game installed if any.

It seems like if your system is mainly for gaming, Starforce will work ok(mostly) as long as the performance isnt effected.

On the other hand, if you use your computer for work and occasionally for gaming, then you get problems. I produce a large amount of data which I need to archive off my hard drives. This data represents a lot of time and effort which is more important than any game I own.

I think I read somewhere that Nero is effected by starforce and in my case, it failed 3 times of of 4 with SH3 and SF installed. After uninstalling both programs, the last 10+ checked out fine(regular data, no ISOs). Well, Nero came with one of my CDRW drives and is 100 times better than the Roxio (pos) that came with my DVD RW.

I havent played SH3 since I found out Starforce was effecting my system and even though I really enjoyed the few weekends I lost playing it.

There a few game title coming out I'm interested in, but it they have Starforce I wont buy them.
There's nothing quite like shelling out $37 for something you cant use...








:p

Untill we get answers......

Does anyone here know of a web site anywhere that keeps an up to date list of games that have Starforce on them, including maybe soon to be released titles if possible. Dont think they all have it written on the game box do they? Could avoid buying new or reinstalling any i already own then which have Starforce or any other similar program on them that raises its ugly head.

I dont seem to have any problems related to Starforce at the moment (do have occasional crash, dont know if thats starforce related), but listening to the many that do i am going to avoid Starforce included games as a matter of principle.

Agree with Murphy, its going to ruin computer gaming.

Quote by NECyclone;
"Is there anyway to install SH3 and then get rid of Starforce and still play SH3?"

We're not ignoring you NEC... .
It is possible, with version 1.0
But like I posted earlier....I like to try to follow the rules of any forum, and helping you with 'that' is against the rules...so I can't explain how, or help you.
But I will get my POV across.... .
Hope this is OK with MODs....I'm just trying not to be 'rude' .
---------
Budget....below is a list of games w/Starforce and the version number.
Don't know how 'up to date' it is....but it's from a 'German' web site, and all I have right now . It might be a little hard to read, some words are in German, but you KNOW it's going to be accurate...lol...

1944 - Schlacht in den Ardennen Starforce 3.4.71.19
AceSaga Starforce
Afrika Korps vs Desert Rats Starforce 3.0
Anstoss 4 [DVD] Starforce 3.0
Area 51 Starforce 3
Baldur´s Gate - Legende der Schwertküste Starforce 3
Battleskill Starforce 3.3.35.02
BattleStrike-The Road To Berlin Starforce 3.4.40.3
Beyond Divinity Starforce 3
Black Mirror - Der dunkle Spiegel der Seele Starforce 3.3.35.01
Blitzkrieg: Rolling Thunder Starforce 3
Breed (v.1.1) Starforce 3.33.022
Chaos League Starforce
Chrome specforce Starforce
Codename: Panzers Starforce 3.3.36.01
Colin McRae Rally 2005 (v.1.0 &1.1) Starforce
Cossacks 2: Napoleonic Wars Starforce 3.4.65.11
CT Special Forces - Fire For Effect Starforce
Curse: The Eye of Isis Starforce
Cycling Manager 3 Starforce 3.0
D-DAY Starforce 3.4.40.3
Das fünfte Element NY Racer Starforce 3
Deat to Rights Starforce 3
Demonic Speedway Starforce 3
Desert Thunder Starforce
Domination Starforce 3
DTM Race Driver 2 Starforce 3.3.35.02
Emergency Fire Response Starforce 3
Etherlords 2 Starforce 3.03.031.021
Fame Academy Starforce 3
Fire Chief Starforce 3.0
Fire Department Starforce 3
Fire Department 2 Starforce 3.4.62.00
Freedom Force vs the 3rd Reich Starforce 3.4.76.0
Gangland (v.1.1) Starforce 3.33.022
Garfield Starforce 3.4.53.0
GTR FIA GT RACING Starforce 3.4.50.1
Horse Race Manager Starforce 3
Kicker Manager 2004 Starforce 3.03.036.001
Kill Switch Starforce 3.3.33.8
Konung 2 Starforce 3
Korea: Forgotten Conflict Starforce 3
Kreed Starforce 3
Magna Carta Starforce 1.0
Magnamedia Starforce 3.0
Maximus XV Starforce 3.4.50.01
Medieval Lords Starforce 3.4.43.01
Mediscript GK2 -3/02 Starforce
Mortyr 2 (v.1.0 deutsch) Starforce 3.42
Narsillion Starforce 1.0
Obscure Starforce 3.3.36.01
Pac Man World 2 Starforce
Pearl Harbor 2 Starforce 3
Pferdehof - Pferd und Pony Starforce 1.0.00.1
Postal 2 Apocalypse Weekend Starforce 3.4.72.03
Postal 2 Share the Pain Starforce 3.3.35.02
Psi Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy Starforce 3.4.56.00
Pure Pinball Starforce 3.0
Radsport Manager 2003-2004 (v.3.0) Starforce
RadsportManager 2004/2005 Starforce 3.0
Rally Championship Xtreme Starforce
Rendezvous 3 Starforce 1
Restricted Area Starforce 3
Revolution Starforce
RPM Tuning Starforce 3.4.71.17
Scrapland Starforce 3.4.63.03
Second Sight Starforce v3.4.62.00
Seventh Seal: The Resurrection of the Dark Lord Starforce 2
Shade Zorn der Engel Starforce 3
Shtyrlits 3: USSR Agent Starforce 1
Siege of Avalon Starforce 1
Silent Hunter III (3) Starforce 3.7
Singles - Flirt up your Life (v.alle) Starforce 3
Singles 2: Triple Trouble Starforce 3
Singles 2: Wilde Zeiten Starforce 3.4.76.00
Sitting Ducks Starforce 3.x
Soldier - Hero of the War II Starforce 3.3
Soldiers - Heroes of World War II (v.1.05.1) Starforce 3.3.36.01
Sommer Spiele Starforce 3.3.33.06
Sommerspiele 2004 Starforce 3.3.37.02
Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory Starforce 3.4.71.19
Star Wolves Starforce 3.4.76.00
Steel Saviour Starforce 3
Still Life Starforce 3.4.65.11
Street Racing Syndicate Starforce 3.4.63.2
Sudeki Starforce 3.4.71.19
SuperPower 2 Starforce 3
SwissMap (v.2.0) Starforce 3.3
Syberia 2 (v.N/A) Starforce 3.03.033.008
The Fall - Last Days of Gaia Starforce 3.50.01
The Heroes of Three Kingdoms Starforce
The I Of The Dragon Starforce 3
The Moment Of Silence Starforce
The Suffering (dt. Version) Starforce 3
Tony Tough And The Night Of Roasted Moths Starforce 3
TrackMania Starforce 3.03.035.004
Trackmania Sunrise Starforce 3.4.71.19
Virtual Skipper 3 Starforce 3
War and Peace Starforce 3
Warlords - Battlecry 3 Starforce 3
WinTrack 6.0 (3D) Starforce 3.0
World War 2 - Frontline Command Starforce 3.0
X2 - Die Bedrohung (v.1.2d) Starforce 3.13
Xpand Rally Starforce 3.4.49.1


As far as 'future' games....I STRONGLY recommend you contact the publisher/distributor/developer and request information as to whether or not STARFORCE is going to be installed, as you won't be purchasing any games with malware on them.
It might help us to make our position/future plans, known to them.....ASAP.

104 !! That`s a lot of games.... If each game sold 25,000 units then that comes to 2,6000,000 and if only 10% of them are having problems then there are 260.000 PC`s out there with serious problems !!

Even if only 1% have problems that`s still 26,000 PC`s...... how many games do you know only sell 25,000 units ?

No wonder StarForce/Ubisoft are not keen to make answers to our questions public (IMO).

WOW!! Murphy i did'nt realise Starforce was on so many games, that must be every game on my local stores shelves Worse thing is i have quite a few of those on your list.

Think that leaves me with Grand Prix 4, Richard Burns Rally, Enigma Rising Tide, Dangerous Waters and the il2 series to play now. 5 good games at least

Will definately find out before buying any new games whether it has Starforce in or not now (it should be stated on the game box really), if it has i wont buy it as dont want my pc to become one of spider252's estimated statistics.

Thx for info Murphy.

Version '3' is the one to look out for, AFAIK.

Yea Spider.. ..this is big.
Big money for UBI, 'if' we swollow it, no further cost to develop a really good copyright protection program for us.
And BIG money for Starforce.

I see Big Business is again coming forward with short sightedness, downsizing, saving corporate dollars. Not worrying about the long term future or the consumer.
But it's gonna BITE them in the butt, big time.

And we'll all go down together :rolleyes: .

IMO...

Big business = Corporate $/£ = Poor service to the consumer = losers all round.

But, if an application happened to come along that `ran full time` on your PC and stamped on the likes of SF........

"HACK THE PLANET !!!"
(Not that I condone such activity you understand)

In the past I red repeatedly that IL-2 also has SF, but usually it was not mentioned which titles of the series (I assume, if it is SF, only PF, and maybe FB). Does anyone know for sure?

The Russian release (by 1C) of IL-2 series has StarForce.
Western release, for all of the IL-2 product series, (by UbiSoft) has SafeDisk.

Hey Murphy,
Thanks for your reply...sorry I haven't posted a thanks sooner. I've been on a Boy Scout outing. After looking at your list, guess what. SH3 is the only game that I have that has Starforce in it. Since posting my first question I went ahead and formated and reloaded all work software and games (except SH3). Guess who has a computer thats running quite fast thank you and not crashing or slowing down to a crawl.

I've got an idea in my head on how to bypass the problems that starforce causes with my system. I was thinking of setting up two different hard drives to boot from. I have a 40 gig laying around thats still reliable and fast. I was thinking of putting Win XP on it also and loading sh3 onto it. I'd have a toggle switch on the front of the computer to change the startup drive between (work/most games) drive and (SH3 game) drive. I'm hoping to put it together and get it going this weekend. Wish me luck.

I can't stand starforce and what it does to some of the componets on my system...but I have to get my SH3 fix once in a while

Having two HDDs is always a good idea, but you don't need to go to the lengths you describe. All you need to do is partition your drive(s) and dual- or multi-boot.

Don't let on to the game publishers that you're willing to do that though, or they'll keep using Starforce.

I'm using a dedicated HD for SH3 as NECyclone describes with excellent results. I haven't had a single CTD with it. The stability was atrocious using my 'normal' hard disk with the same hardware and drivers etc, even though I took the trouble to shut down all background tasks before starting SH3.
It just goes to show how much crud builds up in Win XP over time.

News from Scotland....

Today at the `High Court` in Edinburgh legal history was made when for the first time a "group action" was heard by the Judges. (and WON !!)

Now that legal precident has been made, further group actions are possible.

check out - bbc.co.uk/scotland (it should be there).

Hi Rodders...
I suspect you're right. I have read a little about dual-boot systems but my understanding is that there are potential problems when using the same operationing system (both Win XP for example) verses differing operating system.

Are there any other problems with disks that are partitioned with an operating system on both? If one partition fails does it hurt the other partition in anyway??? Does it ruin the entire harddrive?

I'll still probably try the 2 harddrive system since I have one laying around. Any info is welcome and helpful.

Thanks guys.

"Loose lips sink ships...thats why I prefer slightly tight lips"

Not sure what 'potential' problems you refer to. I run two XP boots (as well as 98) and haven't experienced any probs so far, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, of course.

I must say I wouldn't wish to put you off doing things in a way you feel comfortable with, and mikew has said it works for him.

I will, however, post further about multi-booting on Friday (bit whacked at the mo').

Murphy, what was your username at UBI?

I have Lockon Flaming Cliffs CD version (recently purchased it online from SimW.com, now I know it has starforcr and I also have working nero! the point is why is my nero cd burning software working along with starforce? Shouldn't either of the two stop working ????

Doggie.. Sometimes it won`t touch your computer, it might be the version of "StarF***" on the disc or it might be the specs of your machine.

Give it time to do it`s nasty stuff !

Ok Cyclone.

I built my current system as dual-boot 98SE/XP. My XP boot was infected by a Trojan which prevented me from booting, so a reinstallation was required. Since this meant reinstalling a load of games and, more significantly, mods I gave some thought both to improving security and minimising the effects of a recurrence.

I decided to separate my gaming from my internet activity as far as poss, so as well as 98 I now have 'XP Gamer' and 'XP Internet' installs. The network connection is disabled on my gaming install in normal use, therefore I don't need to be running any extraneous processes while playing.

The idea of multi-booting is that each install operates independantly, so allowing increased flexibilty. Any problems should be isolated to that boot. (NB. Some virus writers assume that you're booting from C:, so when I had the 'problem' some bogus files appeared in the root of drive C:, but they weren't actually doing anything).

All my partitions are FAT 32, so when I couldn't boot into XP I was able to use 98 (and DOS) to save a load of settings, data, emails etc onto my other HDD and my other 'puter which prevented loss of data and eased the process of getting things going again.

I have two 60gb HDDs which are partitioned:
1)
C: 98SE
D: XP
E: XP
F:, G: & H: applications and data.

2)
I: Page file for the XP installs
J: & K: applications and data.

Because some older games were said to have problems with Service Pack 2, I only run SP1a on the gaming boot, and SP2 on the internet boot for the additional security features of course.

I install nothing on the boot partitions other than 'essential' stuff like security software ie. progs I would definitely want to reinstall with the O/S. All major applications like office suites, games etc go elsewhere.

After completing all three installations and tweaking settings, preferences, network info etc, and activating XP, I imaged the three boot partitions so when I do have to reinstall (eg when Windows gets cludged up per mikew's comments) I don't, if you see what I mean. I just restore the appropriate image, do the latest security updates and whatnot, and I'm good to go. Hopefully. And equally hopefully, the other boots are unaffected. And so is all my data, as none of it is on the boot partitions.

Also, having multiple partitons reduces defrag times and image sizes, allows easier multiple installs of games etc.

Since the reinstall, F: & G: are not yet in use, so, if I was willing to do so, I could shrink F: to a suitable size for yet another XP install and create a 'Starforce boot', thus isolating any consequences from my other installs.

The prob that occurs to me with what you intend to do is that, if I understand correctly, you will effectively be treating each HDD as a completely separate system? Which means if you do have a problem with one, you won't be able to access it from the other to sort it out. But as I said earlier, best to do what you're comfortable with.

Finally, I must mention boot managers, with which you can change partition sizes on the fly, and run numerous versions of the same or different O/S's. Apparently. I have no experience of them though.

Frankly, I considered a boot manager before going this route, but when I read the list of features I couldn't understand wtf they were on about, so I decided to keep it simple! But I imagine they offer a lot of potential; for example, you could probably have a separate boot for each game, with different vid drivers and whatnot according to what runs best. Damn, wish I'd thought of that earlier!

Someone else may know more.

[Edit] Just had a further thought. I have a PCI Voodoo card as well as a GeForce AGP. Under each boot I created two hardware profiles. So when I boot up, I get the choice of O/S, then after selecting that I get the choice of AGP or Voodoo hardware profile. In each profile, the 'other' card is disabled.

Now, didn't I read somewhere that the Starforce stuff appears as devices in device manager? Is it not possible to create a second hardware profile and disable all devices relating to Starforce in one of the profiles? Then you could boot into the 'Starforce' profile to run protected games and the other profile for everything else, perhaps.

Has nobody tried that, or has it been covered elsewhere?

I bought a DVD player for this game. I burned a couple of DVD with no problem before the game came out. Now after I've been playing this game since it came out I decided to burn some data with NERO and it won't burn anymore. Comtinue to get errers when it is caching the data. Sorry, but I deleting SH3,which is really a problem to do, and anything with Starforce will not be on my computer again.

Clown

Well looks like ive been banned from ubisoft forums now probably because of what i wrote in another post in this forum as have'nt posted anything on the ubi forums apart from replys trying to help people with sh3 probs. The post in this forum was "Starforce and other Sims", havent tried starc**p forum but guess that will be the same.

There must be a ubisoft spy in this camp, bet they aint got the guts to say though, probably looks like Marty Feldman, keeps an eye on both forums at the same time. :p

At least i wont be having any more problems with ubisoft games again with or without starforce on them, as the bug infested sh3 is the last game i buy from them, and thats getting traded in for something else that works right, along with any other games i own with starc**p on them. (Thanks for the list of games Murphy)

Have reformatted drive and reinstalled xp to make sure all the starc**p rubbish is removed properly.

Bye Bye ubi and starc**p, my computer will definately run better without any of your rubbish on it.

Budge

Looks like ubisoft and StarForce have been going round the forums taking names !! It must be their way of keeping us scum under control :p

Well think again Ubisoft and StarForce...... free speech is not under your control.

I wonder if SimHQ have had any answers to the questions they put forward on our behalf ?

spider,

How much time should I give it so it can do its nasty stuff? Flaming Cliffs has been out for a while.

similan.... Go ahead and load up, if you`ve no problems with your drives then I reckon it should be okay (I take it burning discs is no problem ?).

I have Silent III and have had no problem with my PC nor burning CDs. I don't have Flaming Cliffs, yet.

I recently had to wipe and reformat my Hardrive. Its interesting how well things work without Starforce (no more random CTDs or anything). It almost has me debating whether to bother reinstalling Silent Hunter III.

Nimits.... Let us know what happens if you do decide to reinstall SHIII, but if you don`t then I for one would understand why.

No comment about Starforce but if you think SH3, one of the best WWII subsims, is bug infested then good riddance to you. :rolleyes:

Hang tight guys, I'll send StarForce an email in the morning. We all get busy you know.

I understand you all have opinions about StarForce, not many complimentary, but let's see what they have to say, all right?

Last, let's turn the heat down towards each other please.

jp, im talking about starforce and ubisoft, i have not said anything personal about anyone else so why should you get personal with me, go and look at any of the bug lists people have started up, thats besides the starforce issues.

You have no comment about starforce but you reply in a starforce post. My ctd's are probably due to starforce rather than sh3 directly but it is still part of the sh3 instillation. I could rarely do one mission without the game crashing and all the help i get from ubisoft is to be banned from their forums for being upset about starforce and wasting £30 on a game i can hardly use. So i will never buy another game with starforce on again and never another ubisoft game period because of the no help attitude with a problem thats affecting a lot of people (obviously not you though), thats my choice not yours.

Ubisoft could do with taking a look at other forums such as Matrix Games Forum to see how a company helps with problems that customers of there's have instead of just ignoring everyone.

Budge4...

Whatever, a couple of subs (IXD2 and XXI, least common in reality) have bugs, there are some minor issues but the modders are fixing it. Still think it one of the best sims for a long time.

Ok about Starforce, sorry you are having problems. A real mistake on Ubi's part to implement this solution, no problems myself but so many are I really hope this gets dropped in the future.

Sorry guys for my question now. But at the beginning of the discussion of "Starforce" I thought that some of you guys are just kidding around with some "horrible stories". But in the past few days I changed my opinion dramatically.

About 4 months ago I bought a new DVD-burner (PX-716A). It did it's job quite well. Since a few days ago the DVD-burner does no longer burn or read any DVD or CD. I returned it to the tech-support and now I am still waiting for their answer.

Could it be possible that "Starforce" causes this kind of problem? Does anybody experience the same problem? If yes, I would appreciate it if you would tell my what to do.

PS: This is the software I have installed on my PC for several months: Nero, Any DVD: Clone DVD/CD (SlySoft), Daemon Tool, IsoBuster, PlexTools Professional, etc.

Gibor... Wait for the tech report. Please let us know how you get on.

I was having a wonder.

After seeing how both Ubi and SF dev are
deleting so many post with question
about how fixing the game to work or
telling them how much a good number
of players Hate to be bothered so much
by something that should prevent piracy,
and not preventing the Lambda player to use
it's perfectly legal bought game.

Are they realy thinking they could escape
all the damage they did and the frustration
they had stirred in the gamers community ?

And about how the Starfarce work, i've been doing
some search about laws in my country.

the SF way of working break clearly 3 laws
reporting to informatic.

And i'm not adding all the recent post where
we see how many of our 'fighting' comrades
dvd player/writer died in most horridous ways
between it's bloody hands ;-)

For myself i'm lucky enough, my dvd is still
alive and fighting (hard) and the only
bad thing SF is doing to my Gaming computer
is the slowing and lagging i've started to
experience in games like il2/pf 4.01

In number's i've to drop some of my coop
mission with up to 80 planes (player or ia
piloted) to a mere 40 to 50 planes to avoid
having horrid lags. (let you imagine
the computing power needed for those 30 to
40 IA piloted aircraft. Seems that power
is dropped right in the Starfarce black hole)


PS:
For those who were already having their hands
in informatics around 15 years ago, there was
a nasty little virus that was named
"washing and drying program",if some remember it.

It was making the floppy disk reader turn madly
until it the user pulled the plug or the reader
died by frying.

I don't know why but when i read all the post
about dvd readers killed by the 'intensive'
CD-check of SF, i can't help but think
SF is not far away from that one.
I say not far, because the virus was both
reliable and predictable, when it was allowed
to reach it's 'drying' part it was achieving
a floppy drive kill every time.
SF is much less reliable, as if you are
lucky enough you will still play "one more time"
.

How many of you use FS autostart or change MS config before playing?

Egosoft (X2 The Threat) released a new executable without copyprotection check because of some problems with Windows XP 64bit, thats a very nice move from their side.

"We are pleased to announce that our final update for X²: The Threat will remove the copy protection mechanism from the game, allowing you to play without the CD in the drive.

Additionally this finally enables users of Windows 64bit Edition to play the game, as the W64-incompatible version of the copy protection driver is no longer required."

That makes me wonder if we are going to have all kind of nasty problems playing old games using longhorn in the future?

Personally I feel copy protections and the requirment to have the cd in the drive while playing is a slap in the face on us who actually pay for our games.

Silent Hunter III was released shortly after official release on the warez scene anyway, usually warez is out before, protection or not...
So StarForce bought them what? 1-2 weeks

Not to mention the copy protected audio cd's, I like to buy the cd's, but I prefer to have them as MP3s... but no no... aargh!!!

Sorry.. I will stop ranting now

Ho nice,

i know it should not be around
but when we chat about SF protected games
i was waiting on T-72 as i've not
played a good Tank sim since long.

but as it is Starfarce protected , they
can kiss my monney good bye :-)

How nice it is for the Sim Community to
see potentialy good game fully
scraped by that damn SF.

It's going to get a LOT worse, before it gets better .

I was just about to purchase SHIII, since one of my gaming buddies just bought it, but I have just decided not to purchase it. Thanks for the heads-up guys, I do not want anything like Starforce on my PC. I think it would be a good idea for SimHQ to post a sticky topic with all games that use Starforce, so that we can all avoid them, and avoid unintentionally downloading destructive software to our systems.

Best Regards,

Latest patch for T-72 (1.00f) no longer has SF - it was removed. At least the Russian version. I don't know if the internationally shipping version has SF.

I bought SHIII.

Installed it, couldn't burn DVDs properly anymore (every second one was a coaster).

FYI, I have a Sony Camcorder that I must input data into the computer and burn DVDs with it.

This game is now on the shelf.

What pisses me off is I bought the game (forked out good money for it) and can't play it. Now somewhere a pirate, is playing it just fine without spending a dime. If I was a betting man (and I'm not), I'd bet soon, someone is going to class action someone over this.

Oh how I hope you're right!

I know, i've see the info, but i don't want
it to be Removed, i DON'T WANT to se it USED
at all, never anymore.
As easy and simple as this.

And i'm usualy not someone to get realy
angry about something, but those SF guys
have realy pissed me off in a way very few
managed to achieve. SF

Both with the way their software work, and the
way they treated the people who only got
to their site to ask perfectly normal question
on how making their legaly bought game working.

End of ranting (at least for today )

Try going to the Forgotten Battles forum here;
http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=127;t=003809;p=2

If you have any questions and want to get them straight from the 'horses mouth'...the core developer for Starforce is posting there.

I've given up on fighting this. Too many people want it, and support Starforce, we all needed to fight it....didn't work out that way.
IMHO it's the future, like it or not, of gaming.

And sooner or later, people will find out how very bad, for us, this type of copyright protection is.
I already know.

Hi All....
You may know me from The Ubi forum: http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/2881085392/m/5511074433/r/9261096833#9261096833

Or possibly here:http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=38558

I urge all of you that have had problems with drives please write me with your persnal email that I can give you instructions as to what to do. We all need to help to save our game that we love and our systems that we spend so much money on too!

Thanks...

SC

Soulcommander.. Maybe you know why the warning about compatability issues was placed inside a sealed box where the consumer couldn`t read it - so forcing him/her to buy the game before finding out ?

Spider my friend I brought that up to the head of Ubi tech support. I also said that it shows the consumer right there that UBI/Starforce knew of issues in regards to the game or the LITTLE yellow highlite box (so small to read) wouldnt be there. Of course no mention of what the copy protection was that was included on the game either...

Soulcommander.. If you say UBI/Starforce knew of the issues in regards to the game - then why is Starforce trying to say there is no problem and that it is all a coincedence or else trying to put the blame on "Hacker tools" ?

Spider....It's obvious Starforce knew of problems as I have seen Starforce posts in regards to certain drives that supposedly have now been fixed. Plus The notice on the back of the American Released BOX Says (IN FINE PRINT)
Quote: Notice This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some CD-RW, DVD-RW, and virtual drives. Unquote

That is a partial addmission right there so that users would have no grounds to go back on Ubisoft or Starforce when their drives stopped working. It's their way out basicly.

My CDRW Plextor drive actually stopped working after the first burn right after SHIII was installed. Before I burnned everything just fine. My drive was not that old or used.. I had 31 total burns. Right after SHIII was installed the windows event viewer was indicating the drive was getting time out errors. I thought that to be strange but never associated it with SHIII of course, who would. But that was the only program I installed in over 6 months.

Also you have to ask yourself why is Starforce very own employees posting as a normal user of the game supporting the Starforce copy protection on the UBI forums and then after being found out and confronted by UBI users of the forum they admit they work for Starforce.

Very, very unprofessional and underhanded wouldn't you think?

So of course Starforce would be saying there is no problem etc etc. As far as hacker tools...I purchase every single game. I also run a business that makes pc's, mainly for gamers. So I have no virtual drives or and other hacker type tools on my pc and I was affected. Its cost me lots of money and time. My Plextor drive was sent to Plextor and it can not be repaired. I also spoke to the head of Plextors engineering dept about this.

I have also been in contact with UBISOFTS head tech and have put together a Starforce Investigation which involves users with problems. Many have talked about law suits etc etc. Many people are very angry and I don't blame them. I was one myself. I have put in countless hours in regards to this matter.

Time will tell whcih direction this all goes.

SC

Soulcommander... Thank you for the information, you have told us more information with 3 posts than Starforce (and friends) has done in the past weeks.

I would like to point out a few things to you...

A) I bought SH3 in the UK, there is NO warning on the outside of the sealed box that mentions possible compatability problems.

B) Warnings with small writing are not allowed in the UK under the "Disability discrimination act".. it`s because a person with poor eyesight might purchase the item by mistake.

I am heading off on holiday on Wednesday for 10 days and will not be in a position to reply to any of your posts as from Tuesday. On my return I will be contacting the following people :-

1) my MP (member of UK Parliament)
2) my MSP (member of Scottish Parliament)
3) my Local `Trading Standards Officer` - A person who can remove an item from stores pending investigation into wether said item is breaking the law.
4) the `Office of Fair Trading` - a UK Government department that can/will take a company to court if said company deemed to be breaking the law (this office can also order the removal of a product from stores nationwide).

3 & 4 Also have the power to remove other products belonging to a company if they suspect that the other products are also breaking the law.

For your information.. group actions are now allowed under Scottish law.

Your are right in what you say, many people are very angry - I am one of them, why should I have the burden of replacing my CD-RW when I have done nothing wrong AND I was given no indication there might be a compatability problem ?

Yes... Time will tell.

To all those people....

Who have posted here about having their computers damaged by STARFORCE.

I shall be sending each of you a PM within the next 28 days.

Spider252 what about users who are not touched by starforce yet? Why don't you share information with everyone, we might need it sooner or later !

Doggie... Information WILL be shared at a later date/time.

At the moment it just the people who have damaged systems I will be contacting.

for the record - I have a liteon DVD-/+RW and CDRW and have daemontools loaded permanently and I have not had any issues whatsoever with Starforce.

for the record...Plextor-716SA,Plextor Premium, Teac DVD-ROM. After installing SHIII I could no longer read/write to data disks I created, nor could I watch a commercial DVD movie w/o total system lock-up. Access to my data disks is important as they contain historical legal information required in my profession. After uninstalling SHIII (and running SF removal), Nero, and disk drives and re-booting letting WinXP detect the drives, install Nero -all is good. Ergo-SF is the culprit.

*SYSTEM SPECS IN SIG*

Before I tell u what happened to me, I want to make it clear that I am not totally sure StarForce did this, however the problems I have encountered, appeared after Installing and Uninstalling SHIII and StarForce.

I bought the game a few weeks ago, and it installed just fine. The StarForce protection check was very fast (5 secs tops). The game, itself is VERY nice, and a good game.

However...

About a week and a half after installing SHIII/SF I noticed minor problems with my computer, some of these being, programs not responding, program errors, dramatically lowered system performance, and a slow down in IL-2 FB+AEP+PF. However, my CD-RW Drive was still working.

As the days went by, these errors got worse and worse, happening more often. I then decided to uninstall SHIII, and I downloaded the StarForce Remover tool, and removed starforce. Once I uninstalled these 2 things, IL-2 FB+AEP+PF was back to normal, program errors seemed to have gone away. However, my overall system performance was still really slow, as compared to what it was like before StarForce, and some programs still didn’t respond sometimes.

About 3 Days Later..

While surfing the internet, browsing, etc. All the sudden my computer shuts off! I turn it back on....the HP Blue screen loads up, then......BLACK SCREEN!, no text, no Windows XP start up, nothing. Well, Sh!t I thought to myself. The only thing I can do is, use the HP System Recovery....which in turn will DELETE all of my files/documents. I do it, and it works. The system is back to factory status. Feeling good that I don't have anymore problems, I precede the tedious task of installing programs, and trying to recover documents.
After the whole day of reinstalling, I decide to get some sleep.....I shut down the computer...

I turn it on the next morning. HP Blue screen loads.....!!What’s this!? It's a black screen, displaying current system parts/specs, and at the bottom...

SAMSUNG(hard drive ######)
Hard disk failure is imminent.
Please back up your hard disk and replace!

F1-Setup F2-contiune

I press F1, it goes to the BIOS...ok esc out, and hit F2 and it loads windows. SO NOW, every time I start my computer I have to hit F2, and I don't even know that the hell is wrong with the hard drive. I ran Disk checks, HD Surface checks, defrag, etc, and it says it’s ok.

Like I said, I didn't download anything prior to this that had a virus as I have anti virus and scan all of my downloads. The only culprit I can think of is SHIII/SF, but as I said im not totally sure.

But...I do know that it did slow down my system, and cause errors, so I am not EVER AGIAN installing SHIII, or ANY StarForce product/game. As far as am conserned, SF can shove there protection software up there arses.

Yours truly,
Cylix

Sounds like coincidence, your HD is on the way out (it seems), SF doesn't do anything other than run in the background -yes it can knock out combo drives,clone software etc. But it doesn't destroy HDs!

The PC that my wife has, went through the exact same symptoms about 4 months back, slowing down,loading taking ages etc,etc ran the diagnostic for the HD (Seagate) found 3 dead sectors -no problem can continue with that if it's not drastic. So she did for another few days.. then NTFS problems appeared and programs wouldn't load and files were getting corrupted.

Well we're PC savvy folks, Virus scan up to date, daily scan at 7pm, spam remover/blocker,hardware firewall and software firewall you name it it's followed and got.

Then next day it just hung, black screen no bootup. I pulled the HD -replaced it with a new Western Digital and guess what? It's all perfect and has been ever since!
The Seagate was dying slowly.
I checked it out and found that aside from all the protection she had the HD had some backdoor trojan mallware (not serious) which was killing the progs and corrupting the files. Virus scanner never found it and quite a few other free progs didn't either but an online Vscanner DID! The HD failing at the same time was coincidence.
It went in the bin.

So you see, unless you get your HD diagnosed with an online/downloadable util from Samsung, Then we've all been in those same shoes whereby we blame the first thing that we've installed that caused X&Y problems *before* we installed it

OK, that's it with this subject.

See my StarForce and You thread, featured topic.