If you read my E3 report about Starforce (shame on you if you didn't!)

SimHQ E3 Starforce Report

you know that we had an excellent meeting with Starforce representatives and they were very receptive to hearing our member's concerns, questions, and issues as respects their anti-piracy software products.

So much so, that I have just received an email from their PR Manager as a follow up to that meeting confirming their interest to get our feedback.

Therefore, now is the time to speak up and hear back directly from Starforce. We have had several threads in this forum, and others, but none recently, so I like to know what the fallout has been since the initial explosions of interest.

Please keep your posts in the context of problems that you personally have experienced, not something you "heard about" that someone had. Be specific about the product you bought that had Starforce on it, what the problem(s) was, how you first noticed it, if it was resolved how did it get resolved, if it's still a problem how are you coping with it and what have you done to try and fix it or get answers. A brief description of your machine specs would be useful, especially if it involves CD/DVD drives.

Realize that StarForce is a configurable product, meaning that the software producer/developer has some flexibility in how they utilize StarForce (such as limited activations) and that some of these issues may not "belong" to StarForce at all, but rather to the producer/developer's use of it in their product. We'll try and find out which issue belongs in whose court.

If you have StarForce questions, that's fine too, but keep them brief and to the point.

One final thing, which I hope you can all appreciate. I reserve the right to make decisions on what will be forwarded on to Starforce. If certain questions are closely related, I may summarize them into one, etc. In other words, I can't guarantee I will have an answer to every single question, but I will do my absolute best to see that every legimate question or issue is addressed.

With that caveat, I open the floor to you.

I am going to purchase Silent Hunter 3 this weekend and will benchmark IL2FB+Aces before and after installation and report my findings. This is the issue that has made me the most apprehensive about purchasing SH3. I would appreciate other's results of similar benchmarking. I have seen reports of lost performance here, but I'm not convinced that driver changes between benchmarks aren't to blame. Limited activations prevented me from purchasing Lock On FC by direct download from Eagle Dynamics by the way.

Is starforce developing or considering developing the ability for a user to make and use a backup copy of a game rather than the original CD/DVD?

I would not find the answer 'you can get the damaged CD/DVD replaced via the publisher' to be a satisfactory answer.

If installing a game with "Starforce" on it, causes damage to my other programs....say my DVD writer no longer writes properly...[a common complaint]...what recourse do I have to recover my lost time and money?

Can I sue them here, where I bought the product, or would I have to go to Russia?
Will they be obligated to pay, being from Russia and my being in the US?
Can Starforce just ignore me, with no penalties?

Hi Tom .

My system has slowed right down since I loaded SH3, some programs do not respond and I have to re-boot. The `security` programs I run also have a hard time with it.

I KNOW the problem lies with `Starforce`, IMHO they should sort this out NOW, many people have said that they will not buy any other products with `SF` included - I am one of them.

UBISOFT - are you listening ? (obviously not)

I will donate money to any person/group taking out a class action - this has got to be sorted out.

Hi Murphy, how ya doing?

I'm not sure about the "slowness" issue. Just from my reading, it does seem some people have had that problem, others certainly haven't. Don't know what the proportion is.

Guys, I will ask the questions, as I said I would and I am quite sure they will investigate and respond accordingly. It is clear to me that some issues properly belong to StarForce and others to the developers. Which are which? One of the things I hope will be clarified.

If there are problems which have occurred with DVD writers no longer working, or whatever, it may just be there are some fixes for what ails us, that do not involve lawsuits or threats or claims.

I don't think threatening them with lawsuits is the way to foster what I see as a cooperative effort. They have clearly stated their intention to hear us out, so let's give them the opportunity to do so.

Also, let me repeat, if you have specific problems, it would probably help to have some system specs. Just think about all the permutations of computers in the world, from OS to hardware, software, peripherals, etc. It's mind boggling and probably explains to some extent why certain folk have legit problems while others do not.

Hello:

I have SHIII and I have recently upgraded to Win64 XP. The present StarForce does not work under Win64. Do they have a 64 bit version of StarForce? If so, where can I download it or does Ubi need to implement a patch for SHIII? I cannot play SHII until this problem is corrected.

Thanks
SHunter

#1 installs off my toshiba but the SF cant read the dvd. Had to disable the toshiba and use an old flaky pioneer dvd to play.

#2 screwed up my backup software. Wasted 2 dvd+r + 1 with a error (data checked out though) before I figured what was up. Unstalled SH3 & SF and the problem disappeared.

switching the dvd is a pain but messing up my RW is too much.

Brand new system, P4 3.6 Ghz, NU DWD/RW.

After I installed SH III, it ran nice the first time. After that, whenever I tried to launch SH III, it would keep checking the disc and never start. It runs on my laptop though.

What is worse. I was no longer able to play any DVD´s on the drive, I uninstalled SHIII and starforce, reinstalled Powerdvd and now it runs.

I looks as if I won´t be able to run SHIII on this rig. Shame

Guys, we need a brief description of your machine specs would be useful, especially if it involves CD/DVD drives.

Ever since I installed SH3 and StarForce, my DVD (read-only) drive has been behaving erratically.

It will only play movies when it feels like it (which is rarely) and it no longer autodetects discs (DVD OR CD), meaning that I have to manually start up everything.

This is clearly not satisfactory, and before StarForce reps reply in the arrogant fashion they used on the Ubi boards, I'd like to point out that no, I do NOT own any "hacker tools", I do NOT own a single piece of pirated software and yes, I DO know how to build a computer. I was building them while the employees of StarForce were still trying to graduate from Kindergarten.

I want solutions, not condescending attempts at shifting the blame on me.

My box worked flawlessly prior to SH3 and StarForce, it doesn't now.

Do the math.
__________________________
Athlon XP 2700+
Gigabyte GA-7VAXP MoBo
1 Gb PC2700 DDR RAM
Audigy 2
BFG 6600GT OC
Benq DVD ROM drive

All drivers, including chipset drivers, are latest versions.

I have a PIONEER DVD-ROM DVD-115 which does not work with silent hunter 3 If i install from this drive it can not read the dvd, luckily i had also a dvd rw burner from NEC when I installed it from this drive I could play. This kind of things is very annoying when you buy a game and you have to deal with this protection issues. Thank you

Hello, first post over here; wish it were a more pleasant topic for a first post. I have five concerns about Starforce. Silent Hunter III is my only encounter with it so far, and I've been unimpressed enough to decide that it will also be my last unless things are drastically improved.

1) I object to it in principle. It presupposes guilt on the part of the purchaser in advance of any crime being committed. Even if they don't articulate it as such, U.S. customers do practically everything with an idea in the back of their heads called "right to privacy." So in my opinion Starforce makes these customers uncomfortable because it assumes that what they do within that privacy is illegal.

2) The "warning" on the outside of the package is utterly inadequate. I realize this particular problem needs to be addressed by software publishers (such as Ubi) as well, but customers with no previous knowledge of what Starforce is or how it works are not getting fair information BEFORE they make their purchase. I don't care what it says in the EULA because you won't be able to see that until you've bought the game -- in many cases that purchase is made from a store such as Best Buy which under most circumstances will not take the software back for any reason. So all you have to go on is the product info on the box, which is scant in the case of SH3. On my SH3 package all it says is: "Notice: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some CD-RW, DVD-RW, and virtual drives." This is written in tiny print at the bottom of the back of the box. It doesn't begin to provide answers to logical questions, such as "WHICH DRIVES?" Again, I realize that Ubi is at least partly responsible for this, but between them and Starforce, the legal purchaser is the only one getting the shaft, not the pirates.

-- I'll leave the political philosophy there because the rest of what could be said would be a thread unto itself.

Ok, so more tangible issues:

3) Inability to make backup copies of Starforce protected software. I always make a backup disc of whatever I buy for sake keeping, and I consider that to be part of the fair and legitimate use of the product I paid for.

4) My autoplay has become unpredictable as well. In particular, WinAmp no longer plays music CDs when they are inserted. Before SH3 (and thus, Starforce), they played fine. Now, they won't play on autorun OR on manual. I have Roxio player, too, so that's not a major inconvenience, but as far as I can tell it is a conflict caused by Starforce.

5) My biggest single issue is that since installing, burning CDs and DVDs has become hit or miss. Sometimes they'll burn, and sometimes they won't. With Nero they won't burn at all. With Roxio sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. This includes images, audio, documents -- ALL of which I legally own, ALL of which is related to my profession, and NONE of which has ANYTHING to do with Silent Hunter III -- and is therefore nobody's business but mine.

I have to come down on the side of freedom instead of security on this one. After all, it's not MY security Starforce is invested in, and certainly not MY freedom. I'm all in favor of copy protection, but only to the extent that it protects what I agreed for it to protect when I accepted the EULA. In other words, when I accepted the SH3 EULA, I agreed that I would not make -- or, more importantly, sell or otherwise distribute -- mass quantities of Silent Hunter III. I did NOT agree to surrender any other use of the PC in order to use their product. Thus we're back to #1.

I'm not a software pirate, I don't use "hack tools" (unless you count that rusty saw in the garage), and I'm not some twit who can't assemble a PC. If you want the twit that put mine together, call Dell.

Back in the early days of computing there was a distinction made between systems software and applications software.

Systems software provides services across a wide spectrum of PC programs. Operating Systems like Windows are considered systems software ... sound/video drivers ... disk compression ... fire walls ...

Applications software provides a much more narrow and targetted functionality for performing a specific task. Text editors, word processors, spread sheets, and games fall into this category ...

One of the key concepts is that systems software is usually continuously in operation and interacting across a wide range of software that is executing on a system. Applications software tends to only be executing and interacting with other parts of the system when it is needed by the user to perform specific tasks.

Thus, a game is only loaded, executing, and interacting with the hardware and software environment when the user decides to play it. However, a video driver is continuously loaded, executing, and interacting regardless of what the user is doing with the system.

Another key concept is that improperly implemented systems software represents an exposure (potential for unwanted behavior) to the entire system. Whereas an improperly implemented application only presents any exposure when it is in fact in use. And usually the worst exposure introduced by an application should be that it fails to perform the task for which it was intended.

If not for Starforce, SH3 which is marketted as a game, would be classed as an application. However, due to Starforce and its implementation as systems software (a permanently resident and executing device driver), SH3 becomes systems software. Thus, the exposure a user has when installing any SF game is far greater than any non-SF game. Installing an SF game is on par to upgrading video or sound drivers; except that the manufacturer of those drivers seeks a tight and effective implementation of those drivers for maximum stability. The manufacturer of Starforce drivers must by their very nature seek a convoluted and difficult to reverse engineer implementation which puts these drivers in a much more suspect class of reliability than video drivers.

My question: Does Starforce intend to introduce a better implementation to the marketplace such that the scope of the interaction of their product with the user's system is no greater than the game (an application) that was purchased? Specifically an implementation that will require no memory resident and executing software when the game itself is not loaded into memory?

Thank you.

There was a security issue with a previous version of Starforce that allowed access to what should be protected kernel level space. What steps are Starforce taking to prevent such problems in the future?

With all due respect: Impending lawsuits is not a "threat", it's a promise, since StarForce is obviously skirting dangerously close to being in violation of just about every US law regarding third party software installing itself without the express knowledge of the user and ability to opt out, NOT to mention the fact that it interferes with parts of your computer's functionality that fall entirely outside of the scope of legitimate copy protection.

In other words, it's spyware, malware, call it what you will.

Edited Repost from a different thread in this forum:

I am getting very frequent (some times as much as once every 30-60 minutes) semi-random CTDs (most of the time with some sort of Windows error message, though sometimes without) in several games, including SH3, WWIIOL, etc. The problem seems more severe if I have IE running in the background, but even disabling it doesn't guaruntee stable play. At other times, other minor applications (such as Game Commander, TIR, or GF keys) also crash with similar random error messages. Other games (Wings over Vietnam, Il-2FB/Pacific Fighters, Rome: Total War, etc.) seem relatively or entirely unaffected by this problem.

I have run numerous virus scans, disk checks, etc., and whhile they have found and fixed some minor problems, the big problem remains unaltered. I first noticed having serious trouble with this problem with on or around the time I installed SHIII (though since I was not actively looking for the problem or its cause at that point, I cannot be sure). While I have not yet been able to rule out entirely a driver, hardware, or virus as the cause, it is beginning to look like Starforce or something else related to SHIII is at fault.

I don`t know if this is the fault of `Starforce` but I`ve now found out I`m unable to add attachments to e-mails ??

specs :-

AMD 64 3200+ Stk 754 OEM
Akasa AK 855 socket 754/940 cooler
Gigabyte GA K8 VT800 Pro
1Gb PC3200 DDR 400
Maxtor serial 160Gb 7200
Radeon 128Mb 9800 Pro
Liteon/Ms 52x24 IDE ReWriter
Creative Audigy ZS
7700 Creative Labs Inspire
Logitech Premium desktop optical

No problems here. Everything is tip top. I am not bothered by the presence of starforce at all.

I've been having some problems with my GSA-4082B DVD-RAM drive after installing Silent Hunter III. Sometimes it refuses to read disks at all, both DVDs and cdroms. Other times it will read them, but takes a really long time to start reading properly.

I've confirmed it's not the drive itself, since I've returned it to the shop I bought it from, but they found no problems with the drive at all.

These problems disappear when I use a Starforce removal utility, so it seem pretty clear Starforce is the problem here.

No virtual cd or burning programs are installed.

Other specs:
AMD XP 3000+
Ati Radeon 9600 XT

Athlon 2500+
ASUS A7V880
1 Gig RAM Corsair
His Radeon 9600
Audio Trust 5.1.1
-Drives:
80 GB Maxtor SATA (primary disk)
40 GB Maxtor IDE (Primary master)
LiteON DVD 16x (secondary master)
Memorex CD-RW 32x (secondary slave)
Siemens S55 Cellular phone virtual drive
-USB:
-Canon Lide 30 scanner
-Toshiba DVD 16x (ATAPI device,connected through USB)
-Modem ADSL Ericsson
-Samsung Laser printer


The memorex speed was stuck at 4x.Also the resulting CDs ,might be coincidence but had higher error count than usual when run Nero CD Speed tests.I tried removing and putting it back with no change.The drive now works again at 32X at my brother's PC where i sent it.I must say that my new Pioneer DVD burner has no problem at all with SF,other than if you leave the DVD in it,it takes more time to start the game than if you let it in the LiteON.

Questions:

>In the manual Ubi says that the game contains technology that could create conflicts with some fisical and virtual drives.According to SF,why does Ubi makes this statement?What is the position of SF on this?Can SF provoke conflicts or not and if not,how do they explain ubisoft's warning?


>Also,i would like to point out,that unlike what i read in the US version,on the Italian box,there is NOWHERE mention about copy protection.No small words,nothing.The question would be "do you think that this is correct"?


>Last thing,i just had a weird thing.I ve been using Opera in the last days as browser.I put a CD (with pdfs) on the LiteOn drive,after a while i removed it and a bit later Opera crashed and fortunately i got the idea of taking a screenshot:Impossible to find the disc in the unit F (Lite On).Could SF has anything to do with this?

mg.photobucket.com/albums/v226/pubspaz/vd.jpg[/IMG]

Thank you Teddy Bar

Can't find the edit function in this forum,so here it is again:

It says "Impossibe to find the disc in the unit.Insert disc in unit F"

This is one ugly mess.

I had a new system, got a new copy of SH III, installed and it ran once. After that no way it would run, and I was unable to run any DVD´s at all.

Wrote to support@starforce.com, they were very quick and send me a new code, I installed and the same thing SHII ran once, after patching it the code stopped working.

That doesn´t bother me so much it just means I won´t be able to play SHIII.

What bothers me is that this software obviously
messed up a perfectly new and healthy system,
and I have to use a lot of time to make it run again.

I´ve have never been very active as a consumer
but I have to warn anyone here thinking of bying this software. Don´t!

It´s a great game, one of the best I´ve played so far but it´s just not worth the price.

My specs ( I think I wrote something wrong in my last post:)


Soltek Sl915G-l P4 S775 ATX B
Intel P4 3 GHz FSB 800
Nvidia 6600 GT Chipset
NU DvD+-RW DDW 164
1024 PC400 DDR Ram
Seagate 80GB
Maxtor extern 160 GB ( for backup only)

Software Nero and powerdvd.

IL2-FB-AEP-PF running no problem
Brithers in Arms running nicely
COD running.

SHIII for sale cheap

I´ve noticed:

If I put in a movie DVD, and run Windows media player a couple of times, the DVD will finally be recognized, and play.

Then....

I´m able to run SHIII, but only after the disk checking for around 10 min´s

Next time I start the computer it´s the same all
over again.

If I uninstall SHIII, and nuke Starforce in the registry with their own tool, my DVD´s run flawlessly.

Now I´m no Pc expert, in fact I´m quite dyslectic
when it comes to computers, but I am used to do a diagnosis (only on human beings ).

I live in Denmark, and they used to say:
"There is something rotten in the state of Denmark"

Perhaps

There is definitely something rotten with starforce, or the way that UBI implemented it on SHIII.

Ok, had enough; had to uninstall SH3/Starforce tonight. Was getting lockups in FB/PF. No more lockups after uninstall.

My copy was the digital download version, I don't even own a DVD, just a CDRW.

P4-2.8GHZ Dell Dimension 8300, 1G RAM, 120G HD, Radeon 9800 Pro.

I don't give a rat's patoot what Starforce or UBI says; Starforce MUST GO! I'm just indescribably pissed off that I got duped again by Ubi. Game's great; Starforce sucks!

My concern is the amount of time it takes to make the check. I've now done 5 separate timings (1m27s, 1m13s, 1m26s, 1m29s, 1m26s) and while it wasn't the 5 minutes that it seems, I find 1.5 minutes is still rather long. Is there anyway it can be improved?

I have a P4 2.4GHz, 512MB RAM, 40GB HDD, GeForce 4200 Gfx.

I disagree that it is up to UbiSoft to list all compatible/incompatible drives on the cover of the DVD case, I do think it is imperative to say what copy protection is used (including the version number). That way, people who do have unusual hardware can at least check on a website for compatibility issues before making the purchase. I agree that once software has been bought, it is usually (and understandably) impossible to return it.

I tried to update my ipod today, my system came up with nothing in the library ? How can this be if I have done nothing to my system ?

The only thing I have installed since my last ipod update was Silent Hunter III.

Would Starforce/Ubisoft like to explain to me where 1345 songs have gone ?

The songs on my iPod that were transferred from the DVD players after the installation now skip (stutter) periodically.

My computer locked up for the first time since installing XP a few months ago. It was during the checking disc section when I launch SHIII.

I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt here, but if this is because of Starforce, this will be the last time I purchase anything with it.

Intel motherboard
Intel 1.7 Ghz
512 MB RAM
Sony DVD-R DRU-540A

Interesting.

I didn't think I was having any SF issues, but...

My disc Drives (CD R/W & DVD R/RW) starting acting funny. Autoplay was gone, and it was frustrating to get stuff working (some discs would play, others not). That and the drives still showed a disk in the drive when there wasn't one.

I happened upon a post at Subsim that has the fix for this particular SF "incident".

Forum link

Many thanks to the individual that posted it.

It worked for me, but now I have to wonder what else did SF mess with that I haven't noticed?

I like SHIII, but....the price to play it seems to be going up.

Hi all!
i'm representative of StarForce technologies on this forums.

Åverybody, who have SF problems, especialy DVD burn problems, DVD movies problems:
We can not reproduce this type of bugs in our testlab, and in testlabs of our partners, thats why we do not know whats going on on your systems.

PLEASE!!! do the following:

- contact our support divsion at support@star-force.com
- include hole system info in your mail
- describe the problem

We guess to contact you directly with our developer who makes drivers, he will work with you and we'll fined a solution.
Thats hopefuly will help you and others.

Thank you in advance!

Heh, thanks StarForce!

That's a wrap! Thanks folks, I'm going to edit the questions from all three forums & submit them to StarForce. Although, perhaps they already know...

np m8 we glad to help
we know that problem exist, but we need exactly user to solve this! with sysinfo and his time to speak to our developer

We'v opened Forums on our website.

Due to on-going problems with `Starforce` I have deleted SHIII from my system.

How can I be sure that `Starforce` has been deleted at the same time ?

actually, uninstalling SH3 doesnt remove SF. You need the sf remover program which is available at the SFwebsite.


If you look in the device manager/ view => show hidden devices

this should show you if SF is still loaded

***err didnt see it at the SF site right off. Here a link to the program I found by searching for "star force removal". As always, dont forget the vir-scan everything.


http://www.onlinesecurity-on.com/protect.phtml?c=55

spider252
Do you have any porbs or just uninstall coz of SF disscussion?

StarForce... YES I HAVE PROBS. I have lost `work` which can not be replaced.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, give me my system back

<-- communicating with the Starforce people

ok, first of all I don't know if this is starforce related but...

I uninstalled SH3 last night, in preparation to do a clean install for the 1.4b patch, which went smoothly but half way through re-installing SH3, my DVD drive stopped responding.
The pc locked up shortly afterwards and i had to reboot.
After it had rebooted, my DVD drive would not work, the tray wouldn't open and my computer said that there was nothing in drive D, although i knew my SH3 was still inside

Ahem.... is anybody keeping a score on the number of broken drives ?

I lost my DVD drive about a hour ago. Nero will not cache data for buring onto DVDs. I get a device error.

I'm deleting SH3 and starforce now and anything from UBIsoft, which seems to be the main company that is distributing this junk, I will not be buying.

Clown

Sure that there is not SF, but combination between SF/drive firmware/any soft in the system.

Try to remove SF from your system:
http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=91
It could help.

Then plz describe your problem on our forum here:
http://star-force.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4 or mail problem description with full sysinfo.txt to support@star-force.com

If you helps us with more information on this bug we can fix this drive killing issue or fined what is going on.

StarForce_ ..

"Sure that there is not SF, but combination between SF/drive firmware/any soft in the system."
Well, you seemed to have covered all the bases there.

"Try to remove SF from your system:"
`TRY`... are you saying it`s stuck there ?

"If you helps us with more information on this bug we can fix this drive killing issue or fined what is going on."
Hmmm.. seems to me you know that StarForce is killing drives.

It is great to hear from you StarForce_ but as usual you do not give any answers to our questions, if you don`t mind I`ll wait for the `class actions` to start.

spider252
Plz do not carp at words.

StarForce... Sorry, I was expressing my opinion - which is something we can do in this forum (unlike some I could mention).

Now that we have you`re attention, maybe you could answer the following question...

"Which version of StarForce will be included in the IL-2 Battle of Britain add-on ?"

Just in case you have suddenly stopped reading this page of SimHQ I shall post a similar question in the IL-2 forum.

np m8 just let us communicate fruitful

About IL-2 Battle of Britain - have no idea!!! Its not my part of business, but is i have any info - i'll post it here or on il-2 forum (if you advise me what il-2 forum exactly should i use).

StarForce... The SimHQ IL-2 forum seems to be the best place, there is a `hot` topic at the moment :-

"StarForce and BoB"

It seems there are many people who will not buy this game if it has `StarForce` on it - I wonder why ?

You say you are willing to help... let`s see if actions speak louder than words.

my problem with SF???

Bassically: I'm owner of a legally purchased copy of SHIII. SF won't recognize the DVD in the DVD reader. I am not able to play the game.

Well, that last sentence is quite erroneous. I AM able to play the game, but using a no-DVD crack. Said crack is for v1.0 only. So I am only able to play the v1.0 of SHIII. No patches. No multi-player. Only the v1.0 version ,and THAT because I'm using a cracked exe file. If I wasn't then I would have payed for a game I'm not able even to boot because stupid copy-protection systems that serve for nothing but to piss off the customer base.

I emailed SF with the sysinfo.txt content and my problem. 3 weeks ago. I am still waiting for an answer.


So, my problem with SF?. Is a potentially hardware-killer (I've read lots of reports from peopler who see their DVD units die because SF), it won't let me play my game,and their customer support suxx.


I, for one, won't ever buy again a game using Starforce. As simple as that.

May be the mail didnt reach us? Do you think its possible? I think - yes.

If you still want to get help.
There is "information" button on the SF error screen - press it, wait intill the all info will be collected. Then send the whole file to support@star-force.com.

I'm a happy owner of SHIII (updated to 1.4)DVD and Lockon Flaming Cliffs CD. Both use starforce. I've been using these two for nearly a month now. In addition to this I also have Alcohol 120% plus daemon tools aswell. As I fly Janes Longbow 2 so I use demon tools to mount an image of the old cds of Longbow.

What I want to say is that the starforec thing hasn't touched me as yet. I've been reading these forums closely, and I've my 2 cents worth aswell, if someone likes to listen.

First of all the starforce is a software which runs only when the application is started. it goes and tries to check the unique signature on the optical medium that has been manufactured with it. In my case SHIII DVD and FC CD. In doing this signature search the starforce sometimes goes beyond the limits of the optical drive. Many optical drives have some limits like over burn and limited to not to read raw cd images, or not read some sectors of the disk. Starforce tries to read the signature without considering that the optical drive can support that or not. In this process the drive spins on its top speed to make the starforce read the desired sector on the medium. Sometimes the process goes smoothly sometimes the drive just fails, in other words locks, stops responding and such. When I play my disks the starforce takes for about 5 secs and then starts the game. Whereas a friend of mine had his drive running like it had a chainsaw built in it. Eventually his drive died. He was using a Samsung DVD/CDRW whereas I'm using a SONY DVD/CDRW. On my suggestion he bought a SONY drive and now plays FC without complaints.

Second whenever a CD /DVD drive locks up, usually few of their capabilities are temporarily disabled by windows. Usually the lockup process disables their DMA transfer capabilities, and they in turn switch to PIO transfer settings; which are some times totally incompatible with their mechanism, like they would stop writing properly or they would not open or not refresh when a new medium is inserted. These settings won't switch back with device manager or with the bios settings. You will have to manually edit the registry to get those DMAs back. For more reading go here

http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6645

Also try to take the drive out, start the system, then normally switch it off and reinstall the drive. Don't throw away your drives just because they stopped working.

I'm not advocating starforce neither am I suggesting that one drive is better than others, all I'm saying is that there are (always) ways to work around any problem. I hope this helps someone