This is not a rant against the StarForce proggy we have to deal with when using SH III. I haven't had any problems with SH III and StarForce since I first installed it to tell you the truth.

But my question is, has anyone noticed, since StarForce has been installed, any kind of problems whatsoever with any other sim's you have on your HD?

eddie01

None.

Nope.

I have about 4 StarForce protected games installed (inc SH3) along with about 40 other 'normal' games.
No problems whatsoever.

Thanks for the replies, then I have some other kind of problem going on over here,lol Got a feeling it has more to do with XP Service Pack 2 then anything else.

I have 3 sim's which probably use StarForce on my HD, and it hasn't caused problems before, so I was just wondering. I'm getting small lockups and stuttering in some sims I haven't had before. I've defragged, ran Check Disc, added in new drivers for the Ti 4400 card I have, but the problems still have just started. No virus's have been detected, so have no clue. Looks like a trip to the PC shop for a checkup!

Thanks again,
eddie01

Eddie01,
Have`nt found any problems, so far all my sims are running smoothly, and I`m running XP SP2. Puts

No problems with games, but immediately I installed a 'dvd clone' type software prog, that came on a cover disc, my dvd drive stopped working, with a 'corrupt driver' error. While trying to figure out what was wrong I blew the mainboard. The new PC build cost me over £700.
Not sure what caused it but i'm more than suspicous.

Eddie01...I have been having issues with running BF 1942...never had this untill after SHIII was installed, and never thought about the SF having something to do with this..Actually at the time I didnt know SF was being installed on my computer with the game....I have just got some insight on SF and so I have to tell you that for some reason when I play bf 1942 on the intro of the EA logo I get stuttering as you call it. frozen graphics and then they release and maybe freeze once more. It also does it when in the menu. ANd I have noticed it in the game from time to time.... Mostly just when the cd is accessed.
It does not do this with SHIII intro and has never done it b 4 with BF 1942...it all started after installing SHIII but I never correlated that until reading about SF on this and another web forum and then an interview with a SF person claiming that the issue was cleared up. Well I guess they missed my drive!

I am quite un-impressed with the inclusion of StarForce with SHIII. Very bemused....

Taking away my legal right to make a backup of my software.

We actually sat down with Starforce at E3 yesterday and got some good contacts. It should be in our report when Doug gets home and gets it up-although he may have decided to just wait until Monday. I suspect he just ran out of gas last night and fell asleep.

I got into the conversation somewhat late (was flying BOBII around while Doug and Chunx were talking to the Starforce folks)

Teddy makes a good point but I also know why companies are going with protection systems. I didn't know that Starforce was a Russian company. Since there is a rampant problem with piracy in the old communist block this doesn't suprise me. Apparently this program was made with the design to prevent people from Russia, China and the middle east making copies of the game. I don't think they really thought that much about the effects on the US market.

We have been assured of a full blown interview so we will start working towards that.

Thanks again for your response's to my question. Again, it was not a rant of any sort, I just don't understand why these lockups, big and small, are happening all of a sudden. At one time, I had an install of FS2004 that was up to 12 GB, but no stutters or lockups. Would get hit once in a while in the FR department, but that would depend on what model or scenery I had installed. But got bored with it, and uninstalled the whole thing. Now I have a few reviews to write on some addons for it, and have reinstalled again. Added the one update for it, and nothing else. Just using a stock model in a small airfield with no AI aircraft around, and I'm getting these lockups. Tried reinstalling again, same deal.

Have had NASCAR 2003 on for a long time. Always ran good either using OpenGL or D3D, but now lockups here and there. I'm no Programmer or Computer tech, so I don't understand what's going on, so thats why I was wondering if SF had affected any sims used by other folks. Hopefully the interview with them will clear up some of our problems. But who knows, this problem I'm having might be something in Service Pack 2 for XP also, and I have never had any luck with help from MS.

Slowing down of disc-recognition times of CD drive with old system. USB recognition problems and DVD slowdown since SF arrived on my new system.

It was often said that many people do not realize that a problem they encounter is SF-related. It's highly intrusive, it is patched very often: thus unreliable, IT's CRAP. anti-piracy measures are okay with me, but not at such costs for paying customers.

And even the dedicated deinstall-tool does not work reliable. Kick their butts out of the window in third floor...

I dare say that piracy attempts and the willingness to get pirate software has not decreased but increased since SF's introduction. Idiotic.

You see that's the difference, 'your legal right' isn't applicable in other countries -the UK for example, and hasn't been a legal right since the days of volatile software on floppy.
So companies *cannot* ship different software; one with and another without copy protection for the usual risk of it (the one without copy protection) being exported to the UK for eg from the USA (assuming they removed C.P.) and MASS piracy breaking out costing the publisher dear.Or vice-versa works both ways.. -yes we all know piracy is prevailant blah,blah but devs/pubs have to cover themselves even a small amount is better than none.

I'll not purchase ANYTHING with "Starf***" on it ever again. I'll exercise my purchasing power while I still have some.....cause if WE don't....EVERYTHING will have this type of invasive "malware" on it.

The consumer must have the gonads, and intelligence, to stick up for himself....nobody else is going to.

This Starf*** program is illegal malware, and will VERY soon be labeled as such.
Consumers promoting it, are being quite naive.

So what do you call the devs then if they remove it? STUPID that's what! Free for all,open doors on software etc,etc.
Always from 'your' point of view, never from the people who make the software. Put yourself in *their* shoes (as in your working for them) -different story eh :rolleyes: It's no better than DOS days when you didn't even need the CD, nor that the prog wrote anything to the reg. It's Pure suicide to remove copy protection and you know it!

If you are not happy -don't buy. If/when games move to 'purchase by download only' then i'll be out the picture to. As long as i have a 'hard' copy in my hands they can do what they want with CP as far as im concerned.

You missed the point Tracer, copy protection doesn't stop pirates. It stops people who have legitimate copies.

Any application which has any sort of copy protection, I can guarantee that it has been cracked.

Starforce does take copy protection to a new (read: more annoying) level.

....What they do with the copyright protection is their business....what they do to my computer and my other programs....is MY business.
This is the basis of the arguement.
As long as they don't screw up my other programs, I don't care either...but Starf**ked does screw with your other programs, and your registry, and your systems speed when playing other programs. I sure hope you don't intend to play IL2/FB/PF or any other flight sims....cause your system will crawl with Starf**ked on it.
Try the 'black screen of death', and check your speed. Try burning a music disc for your car....check your speed, even some peoples 'ability' to use their burners at all is hampered with Starf**ked on their systems.

And you won't get it off without editing your registry by hand. A long a tedious process.

When I go back to flight sims, I'll uninstall SH3 and it's copyright protection, and never put it on again. I built a system to be fast. I have never used a pirated game. I never will. And I will also never again use a game with Starf**ked on it either. It's my right as a consumer. But unless the majority of the consumers do the same it will be for naught.....we need to recognise when we're being screwed, and refuse to put up with programs that ONLY benefit the businesses, and not even try to take into consideration, the consumers POV.

We will get what we tolorate.

This invasive malware is NOT necessary, they can develop a much better product....IF we, as consumers, demand it.

If you've got any smarts....you'll demand it.

Whether it screws up 'your particular' system or not, I know some people here who don't hack or pirate, and their systems ARE screwed up by this program. That's just WRONG. If we don't stick together....we'll all lose in the long run.

Besides....this program is so bad, it's obviously just plain illegal.
You may not even have to boycott it....I doubt this type of program will be sold in the US anymore, after the first class action suit is settled.

You gonna cry for UBI when they're found to be knowingly jackin' peoples systems around, and are forced to pay for their installing this malware on an innocent victims system.....not me.

I don't cry for the pirates, and I don't cry for the 'virus' distributors or producers. I consider something installed without your knowledge or permission, that hurts other programs or a operating system, that you can't 'uninstall'....a VIRUS.

I'm concerned about the consumer and game development in general. We don't 'need' this to be the standard. They CAN do better.

Think about it.... .

Murphy i would be right behind you *if* it was messing with my system, but it's not -and i've got 4 starforce copy protected games on it with ZERO problems. It's ZERO to do with UBI either, i have Codemasters,Egosoft,SIMBIN and UBI.
What else can i say? I don't have a problem.

Murphy,

Is this true? How do you know? I've been experiencing a real FPS loss on IL2, and, come to think of it, it started just about the time I installed SHIII. Everything was running perfectly before that with 45+ frames in Black Death track.

Any suggestions on how to get around this and still be able to play both games?? If not, then SHIII is going to make a quick exit from my hard drive.

Cheers,

Ferd-

Uhh, I have IL2-FB/PF on my system and noticed no problems with fps at all. Still runs smoothly, and furthermore I can burn CDs no problem. So are you sure it is SF that is affecting your system?

I did not and do not have any issues with SF at all right now;
even CD/DVD copying works, if you know what to do and how to do it;

but then again, I absolutely hate SF for what it does and how this little piece of software defines for itself what is legal and what is not!

here in Austria, I am allowed to back up each and every CD or DVD I own for my own purposes, as long as I do not sell or hire copies for profit;
SF kills that right with regard to software-and thats why I hate SF outright!

the only two reasons for SF on my HD are SH3 and SplinterCell 3, and prolly GTR soon;

the only games I will buy in the nearer or farer future are prolly SWAT4, BoB2, GR3, CoD2 and OpF2, and if those have or will have SF I dunno and dont hope, but their purchase wont get shelved if they have SF;

but I really do hope, that a different approach to prevent piracy is taken by the industry;

best regards
BL

No, I'm not sure and that is why I'm asking Murphy what the basis of his statement is. Gotta say, though, I've been racking what little brains I have to try and account for my loss of FPS in Il2/FB/PF. Reinstalled windows, virus/spyware checks, etc. I was just getting ready to reformat hard drive and reinstall everything when I came across this thread.

jp, what are your system specs? maybe its a SF interaction with certain hardware/drivers thingy. any SF reps out there that can speak to this issue?

Ferd-

Basic, 1.8 P-IV, 768 M ram, Nvidia FX 5200, SBlive. Of course I limit some ground textures and visual distance in IL2 (keep the nice plane textures though). I haven't added stuff like the mods that add too many ships etc. but SH3 runs well too.

Run FS autostart, defrag keep my system clean and tuned up.

Hmmmm, I don't know. What is happening to me for the last couple weeks is about 45 min-1 hr into a DCG mission (60+ planes in the air), I get progressivally worse stuttering until an application crash and error that says something like "memory could not be read". I've memtested my memory, reinstalled windows, blah blah but no luck. I never had this before and I'm at a loss to explain. I think I'm going to remove SH3 and Starforce and retest. Thanks for the response.

Ferd-

Guys it's very simple. Starforce WILL screw up some peoples computer and will leave others unscathed.

Anecdotal evidence from either side will do nothing to change this fact.

Solution: crack the game before installing as to not install starforce OR don't purchase the game in the first place.

Or if you've purchased it already, please let UBIsoft know. They probably won't care though.

Has a class action suit been filed?


Not being able to make a backup has really got me perturbed. Thankfully my son is getting up there in the years now (going on 7) and he doesn't take the free frisbies off Daddy's desk anymore. But, when he was younger, he trashed several of my back up cd's.

If I didn't have a backup of Falcon 4.0 I would have lost it. I actually have gone through 3 backups that have been trashed in various ways. That would have been a huge loss for me!


This whole registry and unistalling thing has me wondering too. Right now I have no problems. I hope it will stay that way.

So, it will be interesting to see how SF develops. I guess Murphy hit the nail on the head. We'll have to see where they go with this. I hear alot of speculation but nothing definitive.

It will be nice to read Tom's report...


Guys I know how SF has a way of ruffling feathers. Please try to remember to hit the preview button before letting a tangent fly.

Nothing wrong going on now. But, time has shown we tend to get out of control with this. Just try to be civil.

Uffz Labroisse, My fps with the Black Death screen were down from 31fps to a studdering 20-21fps, all excellent settings. I just haven't played it since I've installed SH3 and tried it out....noticed a studder, and checked the fps.
31fps and smooth is what I am used to....20 and studdering is not acceptable.
Quite a dissappointment, considering this (SH3) is such a quality sim. When I bother to uninstall it, SH3 won't go back on, as I enjoy flight sims most...SH3 is just a passtime.....I'm waiting for B.O.B.... .

I'm just worried if we don't put up a squawk....this is the Copyright Protection we'll be living with for the future....not necessary, if we stand up and refuse....together.

Yes Uther ...As always...a gentle nudge is all I need...I'm playing as nice as I can. This has me really concerned, I feel they've threatened the entire flight sim market, jamming this "PacMan" quality copyright protection in the consumers face, knowing what it's doing. Oh...it's getting the job done....so would a nuclear weapon at an unruly demonstration.....but necessary???.. :rolleyes: ..I don't think so.

We're not all "Pirates" or "Donkey Kong" players.....

Edit;
My system spec's for Labroisse -
----------------------------
Lian-Li PC65b blk Alumn Case
Antec Truepower 430w PSU
ASUS P4P800 Deluxe MOBO
PIV - 3.0 GHz - 800FSB Hyperthreading
1gb of 'matched' Corsair Platinum XMS-3200LL DDR 400
128MB Radeon 9800 Pro
Santa Cruz - Turtle Beach sound card
40 GB Ultra ATA/100 Hard Drive (7200 RPM)
3.5 Floppy
19" NEC monitor
Harmon Kardon HK-395 speakers
LTB True 5.1 'surround sound' headphones
'Sony' 16xDVD/48xCD-ROM
'Lite-On' 24x10x40x CD-RW
56K PCI Modem
10/100 PCI Ethernet NIC
Windows XP Home - SP1
Logitech Cordless Optical Mouse
Direct X 9.0c
MSSWFF2
CH Pro Throttle USB
----------------------------

By the way, be prepared to edit your registry, by hand, if you "uninstall" this CraP.....cause it don't happen all by it-self.... .

And a bloody fine system it is Murph.

btw: I run a dual boot XP-XP across two drives. One of the drives is for games-only and has Starforce. Knock on silicon AOK thus far with LOMAC-FC 1.1, SHIII 1.3 and Splinter Cell Chaos Theory 1.01. But I'm no fan of SF.

Has anyone had to edit their registry yet?

If so, what had to be done? Is something like regedit or regcleaner enough to do the job?


Wasn't there a removal tool flying around the LOMAC forum that took care this?

PS Murphy, you haven't done anything wrong. I hope I didn't give you the impression that my remark was toward you or anyone else. I just don't want to see these SF discussions get nasty like they usually do.

Everyone is wondering what is happening or worse what may happen. This really does need to be discussed.

Hey Bill .
Yes, now I see why you suggested I partition my drive when setting it up....but seeing as how I only use the system for games....and I only run one at a time....I saw no need.

:rolleyes: ....NOW I do.

-----------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------


It is imperative that we stick together on this one. Your system works...fine....If I didn't take the time to look around my system, I'd think it was working fine too....but it isn't.
Think about the guy who's system "doesn't" work, with this junk running on it.
Someday it may well be your turn to step in the 'oven'.... ...and they'll be nobody left to complain to.....it's how they do it.

Try to think 'now', how you'd like yourself to be remembered, when they look back on this and say..."Remember when they tried to jam STARFORCE down everyone neck in "05".....boy that was a BAD joke."

What was your stand?...."Oh I can't see where it hurt MY system at all....sure install it on all the games, fine with me"..... .

We really should learn with time.

NEWS FLASH!!!!

BoB will most certainly ship with StarForce as it's going to be released by UbiSoft and they are putting this SF on all their products as of now.

So, I wouldn't let it prevent you from playing SHIII, unless you also boycott BoB, you're gonna get stuck with it anyway!

That's not really "News".... .

The "News Flash" I'm looking for is when UBI and Starf**ked loose the law suit, and find a decent way to protect their products, while still allowing your other programs to run on your computer, as designed.

The "News Flash" I'm looking for is when EVERYONE boycotts anything with Starf**ked on it, every board, and every game.
When it becomes like aiding a Nazi when you even say the name.
When people treat it like the plague it is.
That is whats building in the community now.
Will you be cheering on the "Game Nazis"?.... lol...maybe a little salute? Not me.

If they do put that malware on a flight sim, I won't buy it, flight simming will be dead for me.
Eventually, for everyone.
The money is in the quick games, kids buy.
Sell a hundred of them, with no pirates, MR MONEY MAN is in heaven.
Flight simmers are finished.
Nobody cares, the money is flowing.

I'm hoping Starf**ked is dead by the time B.O.B. comes out. I can't believe intelligent people will tolorate that program on a good running computer.

I don't think most people understand what Starf**ked does. One program is not supposed to seek out and destroy/harm other programs. You do know what they call that type program don't you? There must be limits set, or your OS will eat itself. What happens when your DVD/RW manufacturer writes a program to "counter" Starf**ked?
Your running your system with a frikkin' VIRUS on it right now....and it's about to become a full scale battlefield.

Simply put, "StarForce" has kept me from picking up this sim. I don't need nor want the agravation. If BoBII comes with this crap as well, they will have lost a potential sale with me. If someone comes up with a crack that allows the games to be installed without this junk, then I'll think about picking them up, but not now. No way.

Murphy your in a world of your own -a personal vendetta if you will StarForce is out in quite a few games, i've already told you i own 4. It's nothing new, millions of punters around the world buy games with SF and CP on them because it's the norm!

As i said before going on about it here doesn't change *anything*, ok maybe a dozen or so peoples attitudes on this site - The industry doesn't revolve around SimHQ though
To boycot BoB is just plain silly, it was like the rants here about SH3 -it never changed ONE thing! hundreds/thousands of people on Subsim actively bought it and actively ENJOY it. We've already assumed that SH3 was a success since SH4 is already penciled in!
Games like 'GTR','Soldiers Heroes of WW2' and most importantly of all 'X-2:The Threat' were big sellers. 'X-2:The Threat' is astounding as it currently has a registered, hugely active, forum ownership of 118,726 for ONE GAME with SF on it Now that put's here into perspective! The thing that amazes me though is that they are allowing people -that registered the *original* X-2 -to remove the CD check, which is cool! But it didn't stop the forum from buying SF protected X-2 in the first place.

StarForce has a GUI in it, some demos i have installed have variables that can be used. I think that it's probably a flexible product and not 'hard wired'? Maybe half the frustration is about not understanding it or conflicts with hardware?? But it's the future for the time being.

I know this is a sim 'hang out', but it pays to open your eyes outwith here -occasionaly- to realise that your an inkdot on a sheet of A4 paper, in comparrison with the SIZE of the community of games, outwith sims, *with* things like SF on them and people that are happy bunnies.

By the way flight sims are dead.
The last i looked DID,Jane's,Empire,Rowan,DI,Microprose hadn't reformed? 'till that day happens flight sims were the '90s and always will be.

As always, if *you* aren't happy, then don't buy! But it's getting like a stuck record now...

Seems you are in your own little world to Tracer...
You seem to use the word "I" a lot...
We all know that you comp is running perfect and suffers no ill effect frome star suck...So move along nothing for you to see here but to add your worthless 2 cents..
But others do .... "maybe a dozen or so peoples attitudes on this site" BS bud !
Your pulling numbers from your bung and saying its so.
My systems are both newer setups and both have the same problems with SF installed (burners that will not see a blank cd or dvd or burn at all)....

And flight sims are not dead just in a slump...


"As always, if *you* aren't happy, then don't buy! But it's getting like a stuck record now..."

A lot like you and your fanboy know it all BS..

Knock off the personal stuff folks. This is exactly what Uther was talking about mid-page.

If you have complaints, that's understandable. If you want to have StarForce address them, put a post in my stickie at the top of the forum page and we'll do our best to get an answer, or maybe even a fix.

Otherwise, you can discuss this subject all you want, just keep it civil.

That's two warnings.

I was trying to be ironic/funny...like NOTE the smiles in my post. I understand the fury that exists when 'things' stuff up our PCs (hey the worlds on my shoulders) but all i was trying to do was broaden this into the wider perspective that it is. It doesn't just concentrate around ONE game.

@weed you don't know me? keep personal attacks to yourself.
I was talking to Murphy ok.

Sorry Tom.
Will leave out of this topic for good!

Serious Question Here:

Has anyone noticed with StarForce installed getting alot of (relatively requent) random CTDs and Windows error messages in games, especially with IE open? I am getting semi-random CTDs (most of the time with some sort of Windows error message, though sometimes without) in several games, including SH3, WWIIOL, etc. The problem seems more severe if I have IE running in the background, but even disabling it doesn't guaruntee stable play. At other times, other minor applications (such as Game Commander, TIR, or GF keys) also crash with similar random error messages. Other games (WoV, PF, Rome: TW, etc.) seem relatively or entirely unaffected by this problem.

I have run numerous virus scans, disk checks, etc., and whhile they have found and fixed some minor problems, the big problem remains unaltered. I first noticed have serious trouble with this problem with SHIII. While I have not ruled out entirely a driver, hardware, or virus as the cause, it is beginning to look like Starforce or something else related to SHIII is at fault. Has anyone else with SHIII or Starforce run into this kind of problem? If so, any known solutions?

Hello Nimits, nice system you got there..... .

I doubt anyone could tell you for sure what your problem is.....but I can tell you this;

In the past games have been "applications"....they only run when you turn them on.... ...when you need them.
With the appearance of 'Starfarce'....SH3's copyright protection now runs the minute you turn on your computer....and doesn't turn off till you shut down. Just like your video drivers....Starf**ked is installed in your 'Device Manager', among numerous other places . You do, now, see what this means to your operating system.

This opens up a whole new can of worms....which I do not wish to expose my computer to, when I wish to run something other than SH3.

Since my gaming computer does not have access to the internet, and is only running SH3 at the moment....I'll tolorate it. But when I tire of SH3, I will unload it, reformat, and never put anything with Starf**ked on it again.

And you?.........lol.......course you could go with the shepeole, and just lay down....afterall...."Everybodys doin' it nowadays"...jeez..."get with it man"..... :rolleyes: .

Allow me to quote an excerp from a post from "MarkShot" over at subsim.....he explains it much better than I;

-------------

"Applications software provides a much more narrow and targetted functionality for performing a specific task. Text editors, word processors, spread sheets, and games fall into this category ...

One of the key concepts is that systems software is usually continuously in operation and interacting across a wide range of software that is executing on a system. Applications software tends to only be executing and interacting with other parts of the system when it is needed by the user to perform specific tasks.

Thus, a game is only loaded, executing, and interacting with the hardware and software environment when the user decides to play it. However, a video driver is continuously loaded, executing, and interacting regardless of what the user is doing with the system.

Another key concept is that improperly implemented systems software represents an exposure (potential for unwanted behavior) to the entire system. Whereas an improperly implemented application only presents any exposure when it is in fact in use. And usually the worst exposure introduced by an application should be that it fails to perform the task for which it was intended.

If not for Starforce, SH3 which is marketted as a game, would be classed as an application. However, due to Starforce and its implementation as systems software (a permanently resident and executing device driver), SH3 becomes systems software. Thus, the exposure a user has when installing any SF game is far greater than any non-SF game. Installing an SF game is on par to upgrading video or sound drivers; except that the manufacturer of those drivers seeks a tight and effective implementation of those drivers for maximum stability. The manufacturer of Starforce drivers must by their very nature seek a convoluted and difficult to reverse engineer implementation which puts these drivers in a much more suspect class of reliability than video drivers."

-----------------

So you see, in a sense, Starf**ked alters your entire operating system to function according to it's guidlines. Do you think they tested this as well as Microsoft did Windows?.....and look what they gave us... ...everyones doin' it....lol....

Well I took SHIII off and removed Starforce with removal tool. I confirmed Starforce devices were gone. After running registry cleanup tool, I couldn't identify any registry entries that were related to Starforce (anyone know of any specifically?)

And the verdict on IL2/FB/PF is.... no improvement on my FPS loss and random ctds

I don't know what to do now except reformat HD and reinstall everything. I'm going to bench after reinstall but before loading SHIII to test.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Ferd-

If you must know and it's killing you reformat and never install sh3. and see what happens. If it's not sh3, you got a bigger problem.

I've been having "Memory can not be read" errors and lockups since installing SH3 as well, particularly when burning CDs or with certain applications.

After the new patch is released, SF is going off my system and I'll just download a crack for SH3 instead.

Ironic that with the copy-protection systems on some games and music CDs these days the only way that you can actually use what you've purchased is to turn to the illegal community.

Have had to add Rome: Total War to the list of applications that Starforce doesn't like, and I'm getting really sick of my blanks becoming coasters. Wish that I could send Starforce a bill for them all... SH3 and Starforce are coming off my system, which is a pity, because it was a great sim.

I used to just dislike and mistrust Starforce, now I hate it. I will never again purchase another product with Starforce on it.

Edit: To the developers of SH3: In the next patch, remove Starforce. It's by far the most broken thing in the game right now.

Well funny enough I've found aURL for starforce ,
http://www.star-force.com/
why not go there and put up the winge's in there forum............
I'm not condoning the idea of starforce ,although I do respect the dev's/pub's wishes in ,"cd protection"..But on the other hand I have to admit I have also bin having problem's with FPS, tobe honest I never checked what cd pro was installed (slaps head )

I have been reading the StarForce forum. I found a real good question relating the EU laws regarding the user's right to have 1 backup copy of the software.

IMHO the answers to the original question were quite naive. The only answer that convinced me was the last one, before the thread was closed: StarForce sells their product to a Publisher. The Publisher sells the product (game+SF) to the end users. In my opinion we should stop ranting about SF, which seems do their job very well in impeding the software being copied, but to the Publisher, who is using/selling a piece of software limiting the rights of the end users (side effects apart).

In the same way that in Europe is not allowed the usage of the 3rh Reich flag, and these graphics are changed, the Publishers should think in the laws that should allow for making a (1) backup copy of the bought software... at least in Europe.

I don't want to suggest the Publishers how they should do it, that is not my call.

FurbO... I did post at the `StarForce` forum (please read other thread), but the thread was deleted. `Murphy` also posted at the Ubi forum and got banned !!

Sorry Murph but it's in the EULA (which I'll admit, nobody reads).

Don't really matter what's in the 'EULA' Magoo .
You can't put "We have your permission to install anything we want"...in a EULA, then put illegal malware in a game, thus making it "legal".

I believe "Starforce" is illegal malware, according to our laws in the U.S.

I hope this is decided soon in a U.S. court.
Because if it isn't stopped, gaming will be severely damaged.
What good is 'copyright protection' that alienates the gamer so much that he doesn't buy games anymore?
What good is it to 'anyone'.....except 'Starforce' employees?.....and it benefits even them only in the 'short' term.

You see....even if I'm wrong, and Starforce is decided to be 'legal', in court.....it will still ruin gaming for people who enjoy serious simulations. It will also stop kids from installing 'pac man' type games on their parents computers.....BADDDDDDD for gaming, in every way.

If it isn't stopped very soon, it will be too late.
Every day more and more games are installed on mom and dad's computer, along with 'Starforce'....more potential..."No more of that crap on my computer little man".... .
There is gonna be hell to pay, when dad trys to burn his CD's..... . And when he finds out it's Starforce 'hidden drivers' in his Device Manager...'little Johnny' is all through buying games.

It may take a while to come out...but people will find out. And when they do, it's going to be a serious 'Black Eye' for games. And people won't forget. Most people have trouble finding out what's wrong with a computer anyway....when they discover Starforce (games) interferred with their CD/DVD writers....they'll NEVER forget.
They won't understand exactly how or why, but they'll never forget...."Games Are BAD, no more GAMES".

I know humans Hawkeye...and THAT is how this is going to end.

Bad for everyone.

EULAs aren't legally binding anyway.

Will be Ubisoft and any other software houses loss if they put starforce on all their games, i wont be buying another game with starforce on and sure lots of other people wont either. Hit em where it hurts, in the pocket. They might drop starforce and similar intrusive protection programs then, "not everyone gets pirated software Ubisoft" Are they so naive to think anyone who gets pirated software are suddenly gonna rush down the shop and buy their games because a pirated version is not available. All they are hurting is the genuine buyer like me and thousands of others.

Keep buying better graphics cards, faster cpu's, more ram, bigger hard disks, and what do we get from games with starforce in, "a pile of stuttering, crashing junk" my old 486 ran games smoother.

You cant even post on starforce forum anything more nasty than "I LOVE YOU STARFORCE" otherwise your post is deleted or your banned.

Formating hard disk soon, will reinstall XP and no more starforce included games will ever get installed on this pc.

Feel better now
Everyone have a nice day

Budge

Great posts here ...I can relate to the game crashes that Nimits had above....And windows error messages... Also cdrw drive problems as I have a whole slew of emails from people having drive problems....If you are having a drive problem please send me a pm.....
I am working at helping UBI to understand that this is a real issue that needs attention.

See posts here:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/2881085392/m/5511074433

or here:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=38558