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#663401 - 08/01/01 08:38 PM Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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I was just wondering if anyone out there was considering building a Flashpoint mission (or mini-campaign) based on the event of the non-fiction book "Black Hawk Down." This is an awesome and terrifying story, and I think it would translate well to OP:Flashpoint (on a smaller scale, of course - thousands of Somalis would kill even the hardiest CPU).

#663402 - 08/01/01 11:29 PM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  
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That would be excellent. unfortunately you can't fastrope in OFP


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#663403 - 08/02/01 12:17 AM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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That's true. I'm sure short touchdowns would be a suitable substitute. Or perhaps the mission could begin following the shootdowns, or be presented as a series of missions from various viewpoints.

#663404 - 08/02/01 12:41 AM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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There are two ways to simulate this. Use a parachute script or task a Blackhawk to carry a jeep into the town. Again this requires a custom script.

#663405 - 08/02/01 11:40 AM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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There's a script somewhere that simulates fast roping.

Only problem is you can't see the rope

Search on the codermasters site forum for it.

Cheers,
Manteau

#663406 - 08/02/01 02:35 PM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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I saw this used in a mission I downloaded last night called "the Hunt for Goliath" (the best SP mission I have ever played, by the way). When the helo reaches the insertion point, you are dropped off immediately. By ordering the rest of your squad to disembark, they will then "fast-rope" from the hovering helo. As mentioned above, there are no ropes visible.

#663407 - 08/02/01 02:36 PM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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I also realized that some of the civilian skins would make excellent substitutes for the Somali mobs.

#663408 - 08/10/01 06:33 PM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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I felt like bumping this up because it's something I'd really like to see, but I have no scripting/mission-building skills myself.

#663409 - 08/10/01 06:41 PM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  
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Over the hills and far away.
Where can I find this mission "The Hunt For Goliath" ??
Thanks in advance!

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#663410 - 08/10/01 06:44 PM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  
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Over the hills and far away.
BTW there is also a book called "Tornado Down", it's about a British Tornado that was shot down during the Gulfwar.
It tells the story about the Pilot and navigator and how they survived!
Could also be nice inspiration for a mission on the desert island.

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#663411 - 08/17/01 03:06 AM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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This would be a difficult mission to do. Not for any limitation of the game editor but for the fact that none of the non-US combatants were dressed in fatigues. The book noted above speculates that organized and trained men were running in and amongst civilians and that even some of these civilians were armed, all were hostile to the US presence.

I'm the furthest thing away from a prude or critic of creative design but it would be difficult to place the end user in such a situation, many not familiar with the conflict, and do so in good taste.

#663412 - 08/17/01 04:52 AM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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Actually, hardtack, there are a few civilian skins (that can be armed) in Op:Flashpoint that would work perfectly well. The game also models unarmed civilains.

#663413 - 08/17/01 09:40 AM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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Fishbed777, I took your comment as sarcasm until I reread my post. I would liken the presence of, "civilian skins," to a function or attribute of the game editor that, as I noted, if vaguely, was not the reason for my concern.

Possibly as many as hundreds of civilians were killed in Mogadishu and anyone playing a scenario would, no better than the soldiers there, be able to distinguish between armed and unarmed men and women dressed in every day apparel. It would disturb me to have to make the split second decisions of who lives and dies so that my platoon maintains a preferred boundary of defense. Though the project is simply at the early concept stage, I'm concerned that tactics have not been raised related to how to prevent the undesired loss of life.

This would [conscionably] be a difficult mission to do.

#663414 - 08/17/01 03:02 PM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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I was definitely NOT being sarcastic.

The action in Somalia was a tragedy for all sides involved. War in general is always a tragedy. But you can not tell me that the death of civilians has not been modelled in sims before. When you are escorting bombers in European Air War, where do you think those bombs are falling? When you call in artillery in Steel Beasts, do you think those shells are going to hit only enemy units?

hardtack (talking about proposed Black Hawk Down mission for OP:Flashpoint) - "I'm concerned that tactics have not been raised related to how to prevent the undesired loss of life."

I think some people definitely have trouble in differentiating between what is real and what is a GAME.

Besides, a realistic portrayal of the Somalia battle will highlight the horror of war, and the excruciating (and always cruel) decisions that had to be made.

But in the end, Operation Flashpoint is still a GAME, and that is all it will ever be. And the goal of a game is immersion.

[This message has been edited by Fishbed77 (edited 08-17-2001).]

#663415 - 08/18/01 04:18 AM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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Arguing this subject from apposing sides as if we each disagreed on the horrors of war and the expression of mod makers as artiest would be self defeating. I will continue to stress neutral language for the duration of the discussion and consider you a peer.

#663416 - 08/19/01 12:42 PM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  
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Oh my... let's stop making movies like "Saving Private Ryan" and shows like "Band of Brothers" because the reality and horror of loss in wars can never be taken as seriously by the lay person as by those who were affected by its horrors. Stop the writing of books and making of games and no more depictions of any act otherwise perceived to be real or that may have been real... ever.

We must be so sensative to the pain of others that we in no way try to view their events through our imagination or technology.

Please, lock your doors and shut off all appliances... and wait for death (though do not speak of it or the dead may be offended).

RB

(oh and.. yeah... I'm being sarcastic)

#663417 - 08/19/01 03:10 PM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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I saw an announcement somewhere of a new game called blackhawk down. Don't remember where, but it seems any argument for or against a recreation is now mute. Unless of course a: the anouncement was bogus or b: the developer gets cut off somewhere in the process.

#663418 - 08/20/01 08:49 PM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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Fishbed, I have the book and it is so gruesome. Especially how Pilla died. And just in case you didn't know, they're making a movie out of this book. They're already shooting it somewhere in Africa. Just go to yahoo.com and search for black hawk down movie. Can't wait to watch it! The title is the same too. And great book too, haven't finished it yet.

[This message has been edited by izam (edited 08-20-2001).]

#663419 - 08/20/01 08:57 PM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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I'm reading the book too; I'm about 2/3 of the way through. Some of the accounts are amazingly surreal - for instance the woman running across the street carrying the basket full of RPGs, and her ultimate fate. I am aware that the movie is filming in Morocco (might even be complete) and is slated for a March 2002 release now. I just don't know how they will be able to capture the tragedy, surreal environment, violence, and even the humor, of the action and the events leading up to it as well as Bowden has with the book.

#663420 - 08/21/01 06:17 AM Re: Black Hawk Down SP Mission?  

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I'll have to keep my eyes out for the game you mentioned Magnum1, like Fishbed77 suggests, it will be interesting to see how art imitates life and popular culture interprets the events.

Razorback:
"Oh and.. yeah... I'm being sarcastic."

The humor is appreciated ;\)

Fishbed77:
The image of the woman with a basket stands out in my mind too. It's one of those sequences of a book that seem longer than the short stretch of a single page it was written on.

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