Whew... This is quite the little session isn't it ? Actually, as a Canuck I have to admit that our Navy appears to complete tasks because of the quality of our people, not our equipment. And that is too bad for our good people.

Now to continue the debate, I have a friend in the forces ( Halifax ) who says that some of the Navy officers figure that the new City Class frigates are " noisy " as hell and Skater brought up an extremely valid point about our ASW helos, as they keep falling out of the air. Even worse on the local news last week a story aired about how Canada may be without any Sea Kings, for 3 years while awaiting the delivery of new Cormorants.

Is it a NATO requirement that you have to have a military? Otherwise, it does not seem that Canada would need a military - who's going to attack?

Those Greenlanders and Eskimo's can be pesky little bastards!



-Skater

All excellent points Skater, probably the best concise answers I've heard from anybody.

You are of course correct, 12 ships is not nearly enough, and our 4 Tribal Class Destroyers are older than the hills. But for a nation of less than 30 million people, and being one of the closest and most trusted Allies of the biggest and strongest Naval power in history, we ain't doing too bad. If we ever get the Upholder class SSK's purchased from the Brits, we'll have a good, albeit small fleet.

On the airpower issue, you won't find an argument with me, or anybody else who is in tune with that issue. I've seen video of a Sea king fly apart at an air show once, and it was a hella ugly thing to watch. Between that and the half dozen or so other helos we've lost, we need something better, and not some stupid Canadian made EH-101, that doubles as a SAR bird.

We should buy dedicated ASW helo's from the USN's contractors. They are cheaper than the models that have been selected by the Canadian armed forces, and are better suited and specificaly designed for the assigned task. Crazy.

As for our force structure, a little more data.

We have about 120 CF-18 Hornets in operation, and less than 50 CF-5s. They are split between 2 airbases (again..crazy), Bagotville, and Cold Lake. We have several infantry regiments, and one armoured brigade, which was considered to be very capable in the old Euro theather in the bad old days, but I think that Leopard 1's are way too old, even after all the upgrades. Then add in the previously mentioned Naval power, and that is IT in terms of our actual combat strength. Oh, and BTW, our regiments are similar to a battalion in actual fighting strength. LAME!

[This message has been edited by Gman (edited November 29, 1999).]

Their is only one reason we need a Navy - to keep the Spanish and Porteguese trawlers out of the 200 mile limit.

As far as the 101s go I agree. I watched a flight demonstration at the Shearwater Airshow in September. It was an impressive helo for it's size, but we need a dedicated aircraft. Probably be cheaper to buy some HINDs and " navalize " them. Wouldn't ya just love to see the looks on the faces of foreign fleet captains then !

Honestly, I think the best thing that the Canadian Navy could do is to add an order to the USN's order for SeaHawk's. Thwey do the ASW and ASR roles and much more. They are extremely capable, and solid rotary-wing aircraft. Excellent at both of their primary roles. The added order would likely result in a lower flyaway cost for both Navies.

-Skater

I think the Seahawk route would be the way to go...Do all the Seahawks have an autopilot like the Coast Guard's Jayhawk ? It would certainly reduce the wear and tear on the pilot.

Well, I have not ridden in all the variants of the SeaHawk, but of the ones I have, including BlackHawks (only been in the MH-60 types), they do have an auto-hover, which is what I think you are referring to. All modern helicopers have an autopilot, I believe.

-Skater