Then here,s a few things that may wet your appetite.
If you have any interest in WW2 Air combat have a nosy.. OBD has 2 current sims that are incredible,with sales they could both become even better,more phases,more flyables etc lets spread the word lads.


Heres a review from Flightsim.com

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?19531-Review-Wings-Over-The-Reich

Also a video from OBD showing WOTR .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ_TsVTRDGI





A few shots of mine..Thanks for looking all.

The top shot could almost pass for a photograph.

Thank you Hellshade,WOTR like WOFF looks beautiful at times. The Spit,Hurricane and 109,s are incredibly detailed inside and outside of the cockpits and Roberts (Wiggins) skins really add to the sim.

Chiefs already made some excellent mods over here https://hangar22.wordpress.com/ The map mod is something else,i also like the collective mod and his formation mod is also a great piece of work.

Already a WOTR owner but thanks for the mod links.

have thought about it, but how does it compare to il2 46 and its modded battle of britain

@Duke..Your very welcome mate,Chiefs mods get better and better.

@Lederhosen..I have Il2 1946 with Both B.A.T and VP mod pack installed,I'm not gonna lie I love both packs but have never tried a BOB campaign.

What I can say is WOTR already has given me 100+ hrs of total enjoyment,the graphics are crisp and the shaders look brilliant. The A.I in my opinion even outshines WOFF,S. Like WOFF it's immersion level is right up there,real squadrons including the polish 303 (with polish pilots). Sounds as always are fantastic including the radio chatter that comes in at times but it's the campaign like WOFFS that shines again. I really like the 109,s and the skins so far are absolutely outstanding.

WOTR deserves IMO to be mentioned one day with the same love and care that many of us have for WOFF..Id love to see flyable bombers,more phases going over into France and eventually into Germany. WOFF,S took many yrs to get the flyables and addons that it has and unfortunitely without sales POL and Winder cannot do what I believe they have in the head and heart to do. I bought WOTR on release at $34.99 it's now $29.99 an absolute steal at that price. I've had my money's worth and then some pal. If you have any love for Battle of Britain campaigns then honestly you won't go far wrong with WOTR. I love WOFF and have flown since OFFP2 but since WOTR came along I've barely touched it..it really is that good.

First of all I do not own WoTR, only WoFFue, so I can not do any judgement about this WW2 game, but sure those pictures are looking good. I still looking around the WoFF forum and reading, but also trying to keep it a bit quiet, because I’m not playing WoFF anymore.
So I also notice that,(to me it looks), the whole WOTR is struggling to get the attention from potential buyers. It is a small market but the whole BoB scene is also an theater were there are a lot of free add-ons, so why buying WoTR if you have already the Rowans BoB disk or all the free CFS3 expansions, did you know Ankor is now involved to make clickable CFS3 cockpits http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforu...ste-of-Things-to-Come-(Spitfire-Preview) sorry I know I keep repeating.
If going further I would go for something that is unique like Flyingtigers, Korea, Italy. But keep in your mind if looking at the members map at the CAforum, most buyers are still from N-America and UK, so OBD should never go for an theater of war that not contains one of these countries if wanting higher sales.

Guess you are thinking right now: Why I do not buy WoTR, simple after using the Samsung Odyssey+ I do buy only games that do have VR.
At this point maybe WoFFue could have an new life, as the whole VR in Flying Circus is disappointing, very bad lazy RoF swap job, done by some Russian designburo that does have no experience in VR. OBD could jump in were 1C are failing.

Sorry this is my advice as an nonMarketing guru :-)

The problem with VR is it is still a niche and that is on top of a niche... but yes nice to have for sure. I'd like it. If AnKor could do his magic one day I'd be happy too as I have a Pimax 5k+ headset.

We have added many dramatic improvements over the original CFS3 over time as you know - AI that can actually land for one . The clickable cockpit aircraft is nice to have for those guys that want super realism but a lot of work. There are also various issues and restrictions with the modded CFS3 craft but the work the guys are doing looks super though and congrats to them for the extreme hard work and dedication on producing them.
.
BTW tease time ...coming soon, we have a few surprises in that area coming in WOFF and something cool in WOTR.

@Dutch thanks for your reply. Yep seen the clickable cockpit,Ankor is a genius and hopefully in the future it's an option that maybe could be implemented.

It's your decision entirely regarding only flying VR products I've tried VR (demo and tried Elite Dangerous) and I was impressed but I believe it loses some sharpness,clarity compared to a monitor with track ir. It also needs a beast of a rig to run at a decent frame rate. But if VR could be implemented in the future for OBDS sims I'd buy a VR set immediately.

Going onto BoB ..A2A sim Battle of Britain 2 (modded/patched) is very good but IMO it also looks "tired,old". I also believe Win 10 has issues with it but I could be mistaken. The other expansions like ETO etc I feel the same way and even Pat Pattles Bob whilst really good doesn't hold a candle to WOTR at least thats my opinion. No other cfs3 expansion/add on has formation landings I believe,none has the incredible A.I that WOTR has or the campaign and pilot bios etc that both WOTR and WOFF provide. It's these things that for me that I love from OBDS sims. The scenery and lighting is really well done,excellent sounds and visuals the cockpits are incredible and it all looks so crisp and sharp.

Maybe a flyable bomber is required for more sales? Who knows. I think that with more sales we could end up going into France,Europe and eventually into the reich,WOTR imo is excellent now if we can get the phases and flyables that I believe OBD want then..we'd have an incredible sim. Cheers Dutch.

Edit:just seen Pols post has I posted this..Great news mate.

Pol...you are teasing us again!!!! It doesn't help me keep my BP rate down!

Pol: We have a few surprises...

Raine: Wow! That HAS to mean retractable Lewis guns, Dolphins, parachutes, Straachens, transfers to HE, dynamic windsocks, revised medals, etc, etc, etc.

Pol: (sigh)

Rick Rawlings: Just let it be a new engine, already...
Pol: (double sigh)

Fullofit: I bet it’s different facial hair for gunner/observers.
Pol: How did you know?!

Fullofit has it spot on we changed one WOFF pilot to wear an authentic red white and blue mohican hair cut!

Yes! I knew it!

I can only speak for myself of course but for me what keeps me from "making the jump" and purchase WOTR is that WOFF and subsequently WOTR are somehow incompatible with AMD video cards running the the most recent drivers (since 1-2 years ago). I would say that this issue alone is probably keeping other players (which like myself also have AMD cards in their PCs) at bay from purchasing these otherwise awesome sims.

If I knew that this AMD video card issue is already solved for both these sims then I would definitely purchase WOTR (I already own WOFF UE). So because of this alone and replying to the subject/question of this thread, I'm still on the fence regarding WOTR.
Well, my 2 cents anyway...

Ah darn! I was hoping for an Iroquois cut festuned with porcupine quills!

Robert,
You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometime you find
You get what you need.

Had an AMD/Radeon RX470 with new drivers and it ran both WOFF UE and WOTR just fine (now have GTX1060). I think there is some misinformation going around. If I recall, there was a thread somewhere here about it and myself and others chimed in when we were apparently not supposed to be running the game fine with Radeon cards. If memory serves, it was pretty much determined that it is only older generation Radeon (pre RX series) with newer generation drivers where a person *might* encounter problems. I never had any issues with my card or with updated drivers from my own personal experience.

Sorry for OT in OT, but :
@Redwolf and ricnunes
I had the same problem with AMD card (HD7870) not running WOFF with new drivers, so I personaly solved that by buying GTX1060 6GB card.
BTW, I do not regret that decision .

I did run all the WoFF versions on a AMD HD7970, until this was exchanged by the GTX1080. This HD7970 was highly overclocked but if comparing to the GTX1080 not that great improvement, only the GPU load was reduced to low%.
I never had in these 5years any AMD driver related problems regarding RoF or WoFF.
But if having problems and it seems some do, I guess it is all related to the old ancient DX9/DX8 that is not supported anymore. A roll back to an old driver would not being any problem, I did never see any FPS improvement in getting new Video drivers for WoFF. The 25% improvement you read in the driver update is not for this flysim game niche.
Thats why, if you are not that genius in computers, let windows do the Video driver update and when installing the new Video card driver, read everything and mark the checkbox thats says clean install, so all the old drivers will be removed.

Why I'm on the fence is described here:

https://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=68552

No, this isn't misinformation! This is my first hand and personal experience. BTW, my video card is an AMD R9 290 which is a pretty excellent video card (IMO).

After updating to a certain driver (I can't remember the version) what happened was that when I started a mission (in WOFF UE) the screen went black but otherwise I could hear the sounds of the game and the game was otherwise running "normally" (just didn't have image on the screen) because I could heard the sound of the engine changing when applying throttle.




Curiously before having my R9 290, I had an HD7850 and I didn't have this problem.
However I grant that it could have been a coincidence that I received the new video card (R9 290) in the moment when the first driver that started giving problems with WOFF came out.

Regarding trading my card for another like yours (GTX1060 6GB) that's for me a no-go and this for several reasons, such as:
- Like I previously stated my card is very good/excellent and I'm very happy with it. My next upgrade must be a new CPU and a Motherboard to support the new CPU since these are without any doubt my PC's current "bottleneck" and I don't have the "financial will" (if you will) to put a CPU on top of the investment that I will have to make rather soon (and again I'm still very happy with my current video card). And on top of this and while the GTX1060 6GB should be a bit better than the R9 290, the investment simply doesn't justify it (IMO).
- I don't wish to get into a hot/polemical topic/discussion but I'll have to say this:
I don't think that changing the video card should be a solution to fix a problem with a "single game" (WOTR being a derivative of WOFF) and I honestly believe that any game should work well with at least Nvidia and AMD video cards alike.




This is also a no-go solution for me. No, I don't have any technical/knowledge problems in reverting the video drivers to an old version but this is something that I strongly believe that I shouldn't be needing to do. Moreover I play other games (Arma3 for example, among others...) that take advantage of newer drivers, so another no-go reason for me.

No, you misunderstood. I was addressing the incompatible with AMD cards statement you made - because that is not entirely true and people shouldn't get the wrong idea, that's all I am saying. Like I stated, if you have a newer Radeon/AMD card (RX and beyond), you should be absolutely fine. It is the earlier generation cards with newer drivers that may run into problems (or may not, depending on the luck of the draw it seems). Your R9 290 is pre RX series and is an older card.

I am not sure why you are keen to post here when you say you have not purchased WOTR and do not want to?
That post is very one sided not balanced even within the points themselves. You ignore the vast majority of the good stuff. We can pick apart any flight sim out there by sticking to the things you don't like. There's many top of my head for all the "competing" flight sims. Anyway some of those points are not balanced.

Here's a few examples.

As we know, formation spacing is easily changed a text file we made that file work that way. We set it at a reasonable distance but of course to make individually flying AI pilots very close together you may get more collisions as you would in real life, because you spend 99% of your time watching out for the guys next to you trying not to collide, and ignore the enemy stuff...
-
One way round it that BoB2 does or certainly used to is have AI pilots all flying as if they are all connected by string - basically ONE instance of an AI flying ALL the non-player aircraft in a formation. Thus AI aircraft copied over and over when in formation all therefore are flying and moving like synchronised swimmers. Instant immersion killer for me. That's how you can make fake large formations. All our AI pilots are individuals and watching and adjusting their own aircraft all the time.
We will have more adjustable settings built in to the manager in the next update.

Bomber formations are not 3 -12 aircraft only again misinformation and bias comments. There are various settings in the workshop including "Large formations" on/off which makes formations much larger and can even sometimes combine flights together - even in the video on our website there's several larger formations than "3" or "12" and mixed in with escorts too. In Workshop "Campaign Air Activity" will increase all things, aircraft numbers in flights, total flight numbers. There are also ground based intercept flights you can enable and also regional flights that can add more density of course more =- more processing power that's how it goes.

Some sims (BOB2 I think) have rotating clouds, or rotating trees!

System resources are flying 100s of aircraft all independent of each other - no fake spawns or fake formations - only real flights on real missions.

Yes the Hurricane skin has an error. The default skins were fixed quite some time ago, unfortunately the skinners already produced the 100s of other skins, and yes they would need fixing at some point.

Anyway I think it's hard to judge a sim fully if you don't own it but as you say each to his own.

+1

Well Adger asked a question of non-purchasers, so I answered. Get over it Pol, if you're not interested in feedback you disagree with. As for 'not balanced', you ignore the positive points I made at the end. And I did say elsewhere I was in, if formation sizes could be improved without undue cost. Anyway, de gustibus non est disputandum. Don't worry, I won't waste any more of my time on feedback about WotR

Nuff said.

Well, that being said, he does have a right to clarify and dispute claims made. It's never been a complaint of mine regarding numbers of bombers - I have large formations set and there are lots and lots of aircraft in the air (so I was a bit confused to your claim) - though admittedly I am not an expert on exact numbers per average per sortie for the conflict, it is certainly large numbers to me with my settings (and no complaints). And it is nice to know that all are actually individually ai controlled at all times. - and the AI of both OBD's products is amazing!

I think a lot of the problem is people are passing judgment without ever having played the game - I see it often over at IL2 BOX's local forum - often very incorrect assumptions or huge conclusions based upon a single video somebody might have done (not saying you are doing the same 33lima). What you are not seeing - or I am certainly not anyway, are actual owners complaining about how bad it is or how unhappy they are for buying it. I think by-and-large most who have purchased it are pretty happy with it overall - though they may have an issue here or there - but pretty much that is true of all combat flight sims (all have strengths and weaknesses).

And this is not directed at you, but in general - we are a niche group - but some within this niche group of combat flight sim enthusiasts are so caught up in their one "champion" sim that they fail to give others a chance or don't see the strengths of others (or are closed minded to them). Me, for one, have a number of combat flight sims that I have installed and enjoy (main ones for me are IL2 BOX , WOTR, WOFFUE, il-2 1946 (Bat Mod'ed) - and a few hobbie/nostalgic installs of EAW (which is still being worked on and improved to this very day by modders (and are actually a lot fun)) - and several that get very little play (SF2 Vietnam modded, CLOD Blitz) . Each has their own very prominent strengths (and weaknesses) - but I recognize that not a single one is perfect. But I am very very happy with OBD's titles and WOTR continues the excellent tradition established with WOFF - and I wish the series continued growth and success - it is a very good one.

33Lima you answered someone else in a totally different forum, the forum of the sim you think is the best and with a list mainly of negatives of our sim -but the point is many of those points are not actually correct as I pointed out with a few examples.

You also missed out main items that most owners rave about including totally unique AI with self-preservation, fatigue and more, and things like immersion for most users etc. Hence I just corrected it and balanced it some. Of course the additional info needs posting in the other forum though to be fair.

What Redwolf said ..


Personally I have never understood people who are mad on a particular flight sim and often slag off other sims in forums - that doesn't compute with me. Even daft me who is making one sim and of course want to sell some to reward the totally ridiculous round the clock hard work for 14+ years also owns many other sims, including old to new things like BoB2, Red Baron, RB2, Wings, IL2, IL2 CLOD, BOS, RoF and a lot more. I see good points and I see bad points and I just play whichever I feel in the mood - AND I SUPPORT THEM. The sims will not grow and develop and feed the hobby if we stay on the fence for the sake of $29 or worse still, don't buy it and slate it.

In life, it's not what you say it's how you say it that gets results. We have often listened to feedback of users who are genuinely playing and enjoying and would like some changes - were possible. Just look at the massive list of additions in WOFF over the years in the release notes in WOFF1, 2, 3, WOFFUE and now WOTR.

Have to say I agree with Redwolf and Pol in its entirety Lima,I fly many sims at different times EAW,Box series Falcon 4 BMS, BOBII,X-Plane,WOFF and WOTR amongst others they ALL have strengths and weaknesses. It was your excellent reports on the BOB section here on SimHQ that got me flying BOBII again,and I'm enjoying my time with it but it's not without its issues. I'm with the others I Support all the sims,if we didn't there'd be no more developed.

Some of the points you made on your link I agree with and Pols acknowledged them. But it did come across has a bit one sided if I'm being honest 33Lima especially since you've only read reports or seen shots/videos etc..I'm not saying you can't have an opinion if you haven't purchased but you can't possibly see the many good things WOTR has to offer by not purchasing and that's my opinion. But I suppose I did ask the thread as a question and you gave your reasons why as of yet you haven't purchased,my original topic was too show some pics,a good review and a OBD video to this forum in the hope that one or more WOFF flyers might be interested. (Scotters The person you replied to in the thread mentions the graphics being worse than BOBII seriously?? Do you agree with him on that? Because Personnally I'm definitely not having that one mate). The cockpits,terrain,water amongst others are IMO far superior in WOTR

BOB II was released in 2005 I believe and it didn't get off to a great start at all there were many users with CTD,S the last patch came out in 2016 that's 11 years after release. 11 years to get it where it is now?. WOTR was released only last year Lima by a 2 man team who also have WOFF to think about. Yep I'd also love more radio chatter and possibly interaction with a controller,but then I'm greedy like that and want more and more from every sim I purchase. I absolutely disagree with your point about Clods chatter being better however,clods IMO is just awful.

The pros for me regarding WOTR massively outweigh the cons and like WOFF..with sales and support this sim hopefully will get better and better over time..£29.99 ?? For me an absolute no brainer.

I hope you guys can be friends again at some point. It was a WOFF mission report by 33Lima that originally brought WOFF to my attention 5 years ago. His enthusiasm at the time made me go and find it, buy it and fall in love with it. Historic flight sim communities are small enough as it is and I'm sure it's an absolute labor of love developing them. Occasionally it's a labor of love trying to get them to run well on our PCs, but it's our hobby and we love it

Whatever our personal likes and dislikes, we should try to be kind to each other and express our opinions thoughtfully and with respect.

Cheers all.

H

Well said, HarryH.
+1

Definitely no falling out from me lads,I really enjoy reading Limas BOBII reports here on SimHQ,and I've commented on them accordingly and shall continue to do so. Pol,s seemingly corrected some misinformation that Lima posted on another forum. I wish you all enjoyment In which ever sims we fly..

Were a niche group and I Personnally hope that all sims sell well and continue to improve and expand for the enjoyment of all.

No falling out from me either regarding 33lima. I have used his stuff from the old First Eagles sim and recognize him from StrikeFighters and around the net and even his guess the sim? pic series here at SimHQ. There was a bit of venom in my commentary regarding many of the niche flight simmers shooting themselves in the foot, sort-of-speak (but as I bolded, it wasn't directed at him, but a general commentary).

Ahhh, we are all combat flight simmers, that means we have a lot in common and share the same passions.
Like most people, I bet we all have quite a few different flight sim games...
Can't say I have a favourite, as I fly them all for different reasons and whatever my mood dictates.
As Pol suggested, I know that all my flight sims that I own (many) have flaws, and and good points alike... (great pic by the way Pol )
But I don't think the conversation here has got out of hand in any way, but rather that sometimes the internet text that we type can be taken out of context. If we were talking face to face instead of typing, it would be a pleasant conversation on one of our favourite pastimes.

Bungho chaps!