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#4477707 - 06/12/19 07:11 AM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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I've never been a motorcycle rider.
But I can say if I had I grown up owning one I probably would have rode it at least when I was younger. Now I'm older and thoughy yes it seems it would be nice someday to ride in the country or mountains, etc. it really doesn't make sense to consider it any safe at all.
A lot of people die on country roads on a sunday drive, etc.

Motocycles simple are not safe in that they offer no real protection. You are hurling along at say 50 mph and 'BOOM' you could die. Even 25 or even 0. Its simple physics. There is nothing to absord any impact forces except your body and whatever armor you have on.
At least cars have materials to absorb the forces, now airbags, etc.

And here in the US the statistics at least more people die every year in auto crashes then US casulties in the entire Vietnam war, etc.
Driving is dangerous, in anything.

That said there is certainly statistictly more risk the more objects you may encounter - especially when the orbits of those objects are unpredictable like here in SoCal where every fool is on their cellphone and half can drive at all to begin with.
Then there is the just plain aggressive manic drivers that have massively increased since the 80's.

I actually live in the San Diego area and this place is rated to have one of THE worst drivers rating in the US. There hardly a day goes by here that a motorcylist is not hit (and usually killed) and on the news. Whereas there are many auto accidents everyday it is far less frequently fatal.

And San Diego is fairly small and uncrowded capared to much of SoCal - Southern California.
What to speak of what it must be like in Los Angeles which has easily many times the density amount of people and cars and even years ago it was hell to drive there in the daytime and half the night. Now its probably impossible so I never even take a trip up there for 10 years.
This in spite of the fact I love driving and was a commercial driver on and off for many years and drove all over LA and SoCal.

There is one useful piece of advice i can give motorcycle riders and that is that most do not know how to ride one properly;

The thing is most riders ride on either side of the lane. This is a big mistake IMHO eg..

Code
Recipe for Disaster:

------------------------------------------
you
- - - - - - - - - - - [CAR]--------
or you
------------------------------------------


This puts the biker in the blind spot or spot of least awareness if visible of the auto driver. Thus there most of the time don't even see you or notice you at all.
I can tell you this for a fact because I am an expert driver and drove probably a million or more miles delivering goods for a total of about 20 years and I've been driving for 40 years personally.

While I understand reasons why the biker rides not in the middle of the lane - they (erroneously) want to be able to manuever or actually they think outmanuever an auto that is a big mistake.
That fact is IMHO trying to outmanuever another vehicle is exactly wrong.

You want advice from all my driving? Be predictable - that actually avoids accidents. Trying to outmanuever will probably get you killed. Most accidents are accidents - that implys the other person did not see or anticipate the move of the vehicle or whatnot they hit.
Of course one has to be defensive. So its quite a quandry.
And I have heard the motorcycle does not have the braking power of a 4 or more wheel vehicle but still I think is is a bad mistake to ride on the side of the lane.

I can't tell you the number of times I've almost not seen a motorcycle and almost crashed due to this. And a few times I never saw them. They blame the driver but they hang out in the blind spoots for most drivers about half the time!

as for aggressive motorcycle riders;

That will probaly get you killed even quicker, unless maybe you are a member of a fearsome Biker gang and wearing colors..


Last edited by FsFOOT; 06/12/19 07:15 AM. Reason: some grammar.. and btw please don't flame me!
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#4477709 - 06/12/19 07:22 AM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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Bikes don't use the center of the lane because of all the oil and grease deposited there.

Bikes stop much quicker than normal 4 wheel vehicles.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4477722 - 06/12/19 10:33 AM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: KraziKanuK]  
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Originally Posted by KraziKanuK
Bikes don't use the center of the lane because of all the oil and grease deposited there.

Bikes stop much quicker than normal 4 wheel vehicles.


So much this, not the centre of a lane, you ride in the tyre tracks because of the oil and grunge deposited in centre. Though, here some of the roads have deep ruts from the heavy trucks. We have a short section of two lane road joining two dual carriageways, it's only just over a mile long but they cannot join the two sections as the greens keep vetoing the construction, they have been waiting for 20+ years for them to be connected. That one section is so bad that in my Range Rover it is difficult to keep it straight as the wheel base is just slightly smaller than the truck ruts and the car falls from one rut to the other, on the bike you can really feel it and it takes an effort to pull the bike up out of the rut, it certainly upsets the FJR and I hear the other bikers around here complain about it too.

You ride according to the conditions of the environment you are in, even when I'm on unrestricted autobahn I do not ride flat out, but tailor my speed to the surrounds and what I feel is comfortable.

According to the UK police there are no accidents, only road traffic collisions, there is always a reason for what happened.


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4477750 - 06/12/19 04:44 PM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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Krazykanuk covered it, all the oil and gunk dripping from cars make the center more slick than the rest or the lane.

As for hanging in blind spots, don't! Either slow down some or move past them. That's defensive driving 101 for any vehicle.

And for braking, a bike only has two brakes to a cars four, but since they're lighter I don't think it's much of a difference either way. Bikes seem to stop faster, but that's from my more limited experience and observations.

#4477755 - 06/12/19 05:06 PM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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I have had to go through at least four motorcycle safety courses. The first after coming back from overseas and having to get a motorcycle endorsement on my drivers license when it hadn’t been previously required. The other times when moving to another post that riders go through a motorcycle safety course to register their motorcycle on post.

All agreed that you don’t ride in the center of a lane for several reasons. That is where engine oil is the greatest and other reasons. Lane placement increases your forward visibility and visibility to following traffic. It also gives you the most chance for collision avoidance.

These links are pretty good. The first one actually has some good illustration toward the end.

https://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/motorcycle-safety-essentials-strategic-lane-position/

https://motorbikewriter.com/what-is-the-best-lane-position/




Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4477770 - 06/12/19 06:28 PM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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Proper riding and etiquette requires you to ride on one side or the other of the lane.
I see unlearned/inexperienced riders ride down the middle lane often when I commute.
Reasons for riding in the outsides...
* Trash accumulates in the centers of the lane. Car tires don't touch it once its there.
* This includes gravel, oil, and anything that falls of a vehicle.
* Riding in the center is usually the crown of the lane, so the bike will want to drift to the outside because of the rise in the pavement
* Drivers tend to check their drivers side mirror more than their rear view mirror.
* Riding on the right side of the lane gets you closer to the car in the lane to your right, which makes for better visibility
* Same as above for those that are ahead of you that want to switch lanes from your right into your lane.
* If riding in a group, staggered left /right allows for a safety margin if the guy in front of you has to stop suddenly. It allows you to pass them without hitting them.


~Bill

In my defense, I was left unsupervised...
#4477811 - 06/12/19 09:49 PM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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If your car’s mirrors are adjusted properly you won’t have any blind spots.


Phil

“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
#4477819 - 06/12/19 10:53 PM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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Originally Posted by wormfood
Krazykanuk covered it, all the oil and gunk dripping from cars make the center more slick than the rest or the lane.

As for hanging in blind spots, don't! Either slow down some or move past them. That's defensive driving 101 for any vehicle.

And for braking, a bike only has two brakes to a cars four, but since they're lighter I don't think it's much of a difference either way. Bikes seem to stop faster, but that's from my more limited experience and observations.


If you can't see the face of a driver in their mirrors, you are in their blind spot.

One thing I noticed on many modern cars, is there is a blind spot caused by the driver's side A pillar.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4477822 - 06/12/19 11:35 PM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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On the topic of braking on motorcycles - the number one mistake I've seen EVERY SINGLE RIDER I've known make is not buying the softest, stickiest compound FRONT TIRE possible, because that's your main BRAKE!

I'll suggest it without revealing the reason, and the answer is always "Oh I don't need that, I don't go crazy in corners".

Well, do you want the maximum potential emergency braking performance, or do you want to have only a percentage of that?

And front tires (if you're not going super crazy in corners all the time) wear out a lot slower than rear tires, so soft compound is no worry - if you're worried about the money side of this then you probably are too broke to be properly maintaining a motorcycle in general...

Rear tire is a different story, I go with the hardest compound possible there. Rears wear out much faster, but my real reason is with soft up front and hard on rear IF the bike is going to lose traction in a corner the rear is almost guaranteed to lose it before the front. I'm talking about hard riding there - obviously if you hit something like ice, oil, etc, the tire compounds aren't going to be very relevant...

#4477823 - 06/12/19 11:50 PM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: NH2112]  
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Originally Posted by NH2112
If your car’s mirrors are adjusted properly you won’t have any blind spots.


As a motorcyclist I'm not about to trust that even half the cars on the road have their mirrors so precisely adjusted though...

#4477824 - 06/13/19 12:03 AM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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On lane positioning on a bike - center vs not center?

Totally up to conditions.

If I'm in the furthest left or right lane on a freeway I want as much distance from the shoulder as possible to avoid running over anything that could puncture a tire, BUT, given the right (or maybe I should say wrong) traffic conditions I might choose the center of the lane so I'm not so close to the cars either. Of course if I see issues with the center of the lane in such a circumstance then I'm probably considering changing lanes...

If I find myself behind a truck (and that's guaranteed temporary), AND for some reason a lane change isn't immediately feasible I might choose center to hopefully decrease the odds of being hit by a rock kicked up by it's rear tires.

But most the time I'm going to be nearer to the lane stripes than the center, and my number one reason for that is forward visibility. I like to be in tune with potential escape routes if a vehicle in front of me has, say, a tire blowout, or spins out, or whatever...

I don't care about the grease buildup in the center if I'm not in the act of leaning the bike (in dry weather that is, wet is another story).

#4477825 - 06/13/19 12:22 AM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: FsFOOT]  
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Originally Posted by FsFOOT
I've never been a motorcycle rider.

Code
Recipe for Disaster:

------------------------------------------
you
- - - - - - - - - - - [CAR]--------
or you
------------------------------------------


This puts the biker in the blind spot or spot of least awareness if visible of the auto driver. Thus there most of the time don't even see you or notice you at all.
I can tell you this for a fact because I am an expert driver and drove probably a million or more miles delivering goods for a total of about 20 years and I've been driving for 40 years personally.

While I understand reasons why the biker rides not in the middle of the lane - they (erroneously) want to be able to manuever or actually they think outmanuever an auto that is a big mistake.
That fact is IMHO trying to outmanuever another vehicle is exactly wrong.





Well, your very first sentence kind of puts you at a debative disadvantage - I'm not usually the type to say "If you have no direct experience you have no valid opinion" unless it's something a bit "extreme" (homelessness, war combat, incarceration, etc), and compared to most peoples vehicular experience(s) the motorcycling environment can definitely sometimes fall under that metaphorical umbrella...

As for your "Recipe for Disaster" - correct concept, but terrible scaling in your example. When your front wheel could potentially be hit by a suddenly swerving car, that's the beginning of the back end of that danger zone. Obviously you don't want to be riding any closer to that LITERAL danger zone than you have to, but if you're two or three car lengths behind you're nowhere near that.

As for outmaneuvering all the non-motorcycles - with the exception of a vehicle suddenly losing control this is ABSOLUTELY possible, I've done it many times. I've even had incidents where were I NOT on a bike impact would have been guaranteed...

#4477840 - 06/13/19 02:07 AM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: Zamzow]  
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Originally Posted by Zamzow
Originally Posted by NH2112
If your car’s mirrors are adjusted properly you won’t have any blind spots.


As a motorcyclist I'm not about to trust that even half the cars on the road have their mirrors so precisely adjusted though...

I'm not about to trust that they're looking in their mirrors.

#4477841 - 06/13/19 02:13 AM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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They are looking at their cellphone.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4477872 - 06/13/19 06:47 AM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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Ice Cold in Alex or Eating in ...
Riding my bicycle, car pulls out of a side street and I hit his front wheel, picking myself up off the ground I see him putting on his glasses and saying "Sorry mate, I didn't see you" sigh


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4477874 - 06/13/19 06:54 AM Re: What I don't get about motorcycles is.. [Re: wormfood]  
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Zamzow Offline
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Originally Posted by wormfood
Originally Posted by Zamzow
Originally Posted by NH2112
If your car’s mirrors are adjusted properly you won’t have any blind spots.


As a motorcyclist I'm not about to trust that even half the cars on the road have their mirrors so precisely adjusted though...

I'm not about to trust that they're looking in their mirrors.


Truth there...

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