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#4473669 - 05/10/19 08:41 PM The German Nurse Who May Have Killed As Many as 300 Patients  
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Haggart Offline
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#4473675 - 05/10/19 09:42 PM Re: The German Nurse Who May Have Killed As Many as 300 Patients [Re: Haggart]  
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Lieste Offline
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Well.. did he "kill" 300 people and profit from those deaths... or did he facilitate the deaths of 300 people who were being kept alive beyond their willingness to endure.

Is it bad to help people who are suffering today to not suffer tomorrow if that is their will?

The article and trial are written as a foregone conclusion that he is a monster and 'profited' from his abuses even if only in 'Narcissism', but I don't see it as a 100% black and white proposition.

I've had pets who were suffering Euthanized when they could not recover and had little prospect of anything beyond a lingering and painful death (usually cancer)... but we find the same unpalatable for people, even when they request it themselves.

With no legal recourse the option remains to seek illegal ones...

Should there be protections - Yes, and the trial, and likely conviction is such a protection... but should there also be the *option* within the law to seek such assistance?

#4473677 - 05/10/19 09:56 PM Re: The German Nurse Who May Have Killed As Many as 300 Patients [Re: Haggart]  
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LB4LB Offline
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Way, way, too much money being made off of people suffering thru the last part of their lives. There is no way that golden goose will ever be cooked.

#4473679 - 05/10/19 10:23 PM Re: The German Nurse Who May Have Killed As Many as 300 Patients [Re: Haggart]  
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Ssnake Offline
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Originally Posted by Lieste
Well.. did he "kill" 300 people and profit from those deaths...

Yes. Plain and simple.


Quote
or did he facilitate the deaths of 300 people who were being kept alive beyond their willingness to endure.

No. Don't go there. No excuses for this guy.
Few if any of his patients were terminally ill. He injected drugs to start a heart attack, then attempted to reanimate them, some with success. He relished the reputation of being the #1 re-animator. Sometimes he was just bored. He also managed to kill people who were in otherwise good condition. So, clearly a psychopath. Yes, a monster.

That being said, he couldn't have racked up such a large bodycount had it not been for the extremely reckless behavior of the first clinic (Oldenburg, I think) which suspected that something was fishy with his behavior and the many deaths that "happened" during his work shifts; a clear statistical anomaly. But because they couldn't 'prove' it, they let him transfer to a second clinic without notifying them about the suspicion, they also didn't call the police to investigate to preserve the reputation of their house.


Quote
Is it bad to help people who are suffering today to not suffer tomorrow if that is their will?

Who documents that it, indeed, is "their will", who gets to decide that their wish to die is genuine?
This is a very slippery slope with ethically a broad grey zone (mostly medium to dark grey), and enormous abuse potential. There is very good reason why legislators are extremely hesitant here.


Quote
The article and trial are written as a foregone conclusion that he is a monster and 'profited' from his abuses even if only in 'Narcissism', but I don't see it as a 100% black and white proposition.

Maybe because it is that you haven't heard about his case until recently. The case is years old, several trials have been performed (no mistrials, no misconduct by investigators, state attorney, or judges, as far as I can tell). In short, there is nothing that could remotely justify or exonerate these killings.


Quote
I've had pets who were suffering Euthanized when they could not recover and had little prospect of anything beyond a lingering and painful death (usually cancer)... but we find the same unpalatable for people, even when they request it themselves.

Not sure if a debate of this point wouldn't very quickly get this thread moved to PWEC, but I'd like to say at least once and for the record that I can see substantial differences between pets, and people.

#4473686 - 05/10/19 10:41 PM Re: The German Nurse Who May Have Killed As Many as 300 Patients [Re: Haggart]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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This nurse would have had a field day working at Auschwitz or Trebllinka had he lived at that time.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4473707 - 05/11/19 06:05 AM Re: The German Nurse Who May Have Killed As Many as 300 Patients [Re: Haggart]  
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Ssnake Offline
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Not necessarily. It's not that he enjoyed the killing as such, he just didn't mind it. To him, it was about the excitement and action of the reanimation process, and the recognition of his contribution to it. Which are precisely the signs of a psychopath; indifference towards the life and well-being of others, and atrophied emotions. Some psychopaths kill to feel "anything".

#4473768 - 05/11/19 05:56 PM Re: The German Nurse Who May Have Killed As Many as 300 Patients [Re: Haggart]  
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vocatx Offline
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Panzer, it's kind of like an arsonist. You probably had terrorism response training as I have had. Most arsonists aren't enamored with fire, it's the excitement of seeing the fire engines responding with lights and sirens and watching the fire fighters battle the fire. There's some sick people out there....


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