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#4472426 - 04/30/19 02:34 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Mr_Blastman Offline
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If you could buy a license to Windows 10 that would absolutely be free of spyware or telemetry, that would be something. But I don't think you can.

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#4472428 - 04/30/19 02:46 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Chucky Online sosad
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
If you could buy a license to Windows 10 that would absolutely be free of spyware or telemetry, that would be something. But I don't think you can.


No,but you can do something about it after it's installed. Ssnake has mentioned O&O's "Shutup 10". I don't use that,I use the free version of Ashampoo's Winoptimizer 2019 that allows you to configure privacy settings to 'safe' and Win 10 privacy settings to 'safe'. How 'safe' that is I don't exactly know,you can pick and choose what you want blocked and I'm no expert on that. I use 'default' settings.

I find Win 10 is much better than 7 ever was but I understand not everyone feels that way. I didn't think that when it first came out,I was cursing it and went back to 7 a few times. Now it's been out 3 years it's matured into my favourite O/S.


“There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.”
#4472448 - 04/30/19 04:15 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Chucky]  
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Ssnake Offline
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Originally Posted by Chucky
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
If you could buy a license to Windows 10 that would absolutely be free of spyware or telemetry, that would be something. But I don't think you can.


No,but you can do something about it after it's installed.

The important first step is to NOT create an account with Microsoft on setup. The UI for bypassing it is deliberately confusing and misleading, so the easiest way to bypass this hurdle is to pull the ethernet plug on the first start of the installation. In that case the installer defaults to the option to create the account (much) later. The problem is, once that you have created a non-local account for your login you have already lost a good portion of your control, and you can't undo that. So you really need to pay attention on this first step.
For the rest, whether you use the Windows built-in dialogs (scattered (deliverately, i assume) over several dozen different places) or a more convenient tool is up to personal preferences. O&O is a Microsoft Certified Partner (heh...), so I assume that they know what they're doing.

#4472451 - 04/30/19 04:23 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Chucky Online sosad
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I've had a M$ account for some while,I didn't realise until you pointed it out Ssnake that my data could be shared by M$ (always read the small print frown ).

I deleted my account,I assume that's the end of it?

Last edited by Chucky; 04/30/19 04:24 PM.

“There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.”
#4472469 - 04/30/19 06:37 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Nixer Offline
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There should be public cameras and microphones around the Gate's and all the social media Kings 24/7.

It's only fair...


"I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging of the future but by the past."
Patrick Henry 1775

I personally believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and that deficit spending is sustainable forever. We really do need more Admirals in the Navy than ships and that millions of more poor immigrants will jump start the economy.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
Phineas Taylor Barnum

#4472532 - 05/01/19 05:05 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Coot]  
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Due to production software I use, my main workstation can never exceed WinXP SP2. Them's the breaks, but I don't mind being retro because I'm also really cheap. smile Plus all my DOS software works well in DOSBox on this PC.

Many years ago I got the word out among family and friends not to discard their 8-tracks until they've talked with me. Today it's XP-era Dell PCs and they've been most generous, I've acquired quite a collection. Like a nutjob hoarding supplies in his basement for the imminent zombie apocalypse, I have an attic full of ~Y2K Dells with accompanying software. smile What's nice is that the WinXP CDs that shipped with these PCs (and I have several) are full install-from-scratch CDs (not a recovery system) which require no online activation, only a Dell motherboard(?). And self-activation seems to be completely interchangeable, even with my couple of Win2000 Dells. My original WinXP Dell has never given me trouble with hard daily use so I may never need these other backup PCs.

Going online is different, of course. My Win7 laptop died but instead of replacing it with a new one (Win10), I added a dual-boot Linux Mint on my XP laptop (originally came with Vista) just for going online. Works fine.

One day I'll purchase a new baseline Win10 laptop for going online, I just don't need it right now. I probably won't like 10 much anyway, but then I never cared for 7 (vs. XP) for overall usability.

#4472537 - 05/01/19 06:51 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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FsFOOT Offline
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Originally Posted by MarkG

Going online is different, of course. My Win7 laptop died but instead of replacing it with a new one (Win10), I added a dual-boot Linux Mint on my XP laptop (originally came with Vista) just for going online. Works fine.


Thats a decent approach to the vulnerability issue.

Lowering the risk / exposure to threats is probably the most important measure.

Not using an administrator account, staying offline primarily is # 1. (But then who of us power-user / gamer types really do that?)

The browser or any internet capable software is where most of the risk is at IMHO. And then office / pdf , adobe products, other media like shockwave, flash, silverlight, and video.
But thats not all of course even audio and various documents as well as everything from fonts to various other crap in Windows are vulnerable. You can get various programs and weblinks to info on the stuff like this:
see: https://www.flexera.com/products/operations/software-vulnerability-manager.html
( see: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/detect-vulnerable-programs-with-secunia-psi/ but be aware secundia does retain some statistical data, etc.)

Others things people can do is locking down the permissions on the system, removing vulnerable software and unneeded services from the system, and not allowing foreign files into the system.

Windows 7 definately has more advantage than XP in the area of permissions locking ability and I'm fairly sure a competent administrator and a dose of EMET or similar can still secure an Win 7 machine for years if they are painstakingly careful. And stay off the internet.

However, the main problem with all these approaches IMHO is not so much that systems can't be made generally far more secure than any average person's default install, but that packages and exploits that specifically target areas of the system that are undefendable increasingly abound.

That's the main reason for a lot of security patching. People out there ~ "the Bad Guys'" love not only to find exploits but to proliferate them over the internet / torrents / dark web, etc.
Criminals and wannabe-bad hacker types can buy or freely get entire ready made tools and scripts that may be able to get into your system just from your browser triggering a hyperlink to a webserver that they are using.

Crackers / bad hackers usually target Popular stuff.
Browsers are bad really and AFAIK Lynx is not secure browser even, and there are no browsers that are totaly secure.
To be more secure you would want to avoid TCP/IP of the internet as it is by nature flawed.

btw - From a real serious security point of view a machine that is easily compromised you would never want facing your network, much less internet.
Anyway, before I ramble on more one last point is that some old games that use online play are not very secure or even totaly insecure. For example games of the old DirectPlay era like EAW you never want to do TCP/IP directy over the internet ideally. But then again there were EAW players that did this for years with np. But most used a service and tunnel the connection.
I always warned players even then not drop their guard since a tunnel does nothing to prevent attacks from others in the tunnel. But frankly EAW was never popular enough to attract the eyes of hackers / criminals.

#4472540 - 05/01/19 09:10 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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McGonigle Offline
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Why I still won't touch 10:
1) I absolutely loathe and abhor the 10 UI, it is a ghastly experience and installing classic shell which is now unsupported and no longer developed just added 30 seconds to my boot time. No thank you very much.
2) 10 couldn't see my e book readers
3) 10 is bloated like never before with Wow gee silly stuff like Cortana and 3D paint in which I have absolutely no interest. Maybe there are hacks to get rid of it but you know what? I absolutely do not want to watste a single moment searching for, implementing and maintaining such hacks
4) MS Store and especially bloatware like the media player which is default and cant' be uninstalled. It absolutely sucks in comparison with say VLC for sound quality
5) Online account, yeah, you can circumvent it but what about next time MS updates 10? Will it be back with a "By the way, we noticed you have not set up an account with us. we recommend you do it now since it offers increased security:"
6) There are settings here and there are settings there. In Microsoft, you search for settings everywhere.
7) Tiles...... My eyes bleed.
8) Unable to adjuist the OS to my configuration. I do not have a touch screen on my desktop pc so I do not need any tiles!
9) Several recent updates have been extremely buggy for some users.
10) They still think they can converge themselves into offering one, massive OS for everything, from PC's and phones (which they don't do anymore) to IoT.

What should MS have done then:
1) Kept the overall look and feel of 7 with perhaps a minor graphical tweak
2) Built in sensors or adopted a modular add-on approach so we would not get or at least could opt out of functionality we don't want, like UI for touch screens or 3D paint or Cortana.
3) Continued updating / security patching, obviously.

Options:
1) Stay with 7 at least until support actually stops dead. There might be an extended period of updates, like for XP. Let's wait and see.
2) Stay with 7 post end of support for safe computing i.e. keep updating anti-virus, anti-malware and running ESET. Using 7 as a Legacy Games Machine. Everything else is handled by Chomebook or iPad
3) Play with other OS' like Linux or ReactOS

In conclusion: 10, for me does not seem like a good option. Compatibility with legacy games is decreasing and at a point newer processors will be entirely incapable of handling older games. Newer games do not hold much interest for me. So even if I downgraded to 10, in time I wouldn't be able to play the older games. So what have I lost? nothing!




Last edited by McGonigle; 05/01/19 09:13 AM.

Jens C. Lindblad


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#4472548 - 05/01/19 10:20 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I don't think Microsoft can afford making the Microsoft account mandatory for Windows users, just like it cannot force software vendors to sell their software exclusively through the MS App Store, for the sole reason that it would simply not be tolerated in the corporate/business world. This is MS's true stronghold. Whatever they do, if they act against the manifest interests of the business world they would be slaughtering their cash cow. I cannot imagine that a board of directors that attempted this wouldn't be immediately sacked by the major shareholders.
You can't get rid of Cortana, but you can choose to simply not use it, like all the other software that MS made uninstallable. Yet, it lies dormant somewhere in the RAM, but that's about it. In the last three days, 14 hours, nine minutes, Cortana stole a total of 54 seconds of CPU time on my computer, probably the seconds I needed after the last update (I just got the one from last October) to configure it to stay away.

Yes, I too would very much like to be left alone entirely by MS and retain full control over my machine. But I have to acknowledge that the imbeciles I spoke with in the 1990s about IT security ruined everything for everybody; real-life money quotes:
  • "Me, updates? Yeeh, mebbe later..."
  • "Oh, you found my computer has been hijacked by spammers? Meh, there's nothing you can do about it."
  • "Hey, I got this free tool from this obscure website, where I get all my other stuff from. Most is crap, but this one here could be interesting.
    I install at least two new programs every week."

#4472554 - 05/01/19 12:38 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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MarkG Offline
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I'm making spending less time online a lifestyle change. It's impossible to go cold turkey (just last night before posting I ordered off Amazon a new drum belt and idler pulley for my Samsung dryer, already disassembled from watching YouTube DIY videos), but I try not to web surf anymore without purpose. SimHQ is still my only online interaction and I've cut way back on posting. I think of it like the non-threatening skin cancer recently removed from my nose. Applying sunblock before going outside for any length of time is good, but spending less time in the sun is best.

What helps to curb my online appetite, besides Linux being a little clunky (likely just not familiar enough) is that my laptop is in a permanent and not so comfortable location (1st pic). The battery will last maybe 5 min. so it requires constant power and the cord is running behind and under furniture, not easily moved. Also, my satellite internet doesn't make for the best online experience (although I've been happy with HughesNet Gen5). The way it is now is exactly what I need.

To keep my sanity with such old equipment, I keep everything looking new so as to not seem so outdated (the software doesn't seem too dated because it's what I'm used to). When I receive a donor PC, it gets a thorough going over (WD-40 to Dawn or Windex on a damp rag), vacuumed and cleaned inside and out until I'm satisfied (2nd pic). No cruddy keyboard and mouse here.

Sometimes I get lucky at Goodwill, like finding a wheel and pedals for $10.00 (3rd pic). smile

Attached Files DSCF3551.JPGDSCF3536.JPGDSCF2365.JPG
#4472556 - 05/01/19 12:53 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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mikew Offline
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I'm not sure if I've just got numb to it, or automatically do the steps Ssnake suggests after each update but Win10 doesn't seem as intrusive as it did 3 years ago.
To the previous advise, I just add that it's better to set your network connection to 'metered', which stops those spontaneous restarts for me plus it stops the thing blowing through my datacap in about 2 seconds if I tether it to my phone.

I use Linux for most of the day to day stuff though, and only fire up Win10 if I want to play any of my games on Steam.
This has its own annoyances like the default Gnome3 desktop which treats my 30" monitor as though it's 4" phone, a trait mindlessly copied from Win8. What the heck are these people thinking?
At least I can use the Cinnamon desktop environment instead for that WinXP-like usability.

#4472557 - 05/01/19 12:58 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: mikew]  
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PanzerMeyer Online centaurian
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Originally Posted by mikew

I use Linux for most of the day to day stuff though, and only fire up Win10 if I want to play any of my games on Steam.



If I wasn't a PC gamer I would have dumped Windows years ago and just switch to Linux 100%.


Alea iacta est.
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