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#4471984 - 04/26/19 05:32 PM Windows 7, the End is Near  
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Support for Windows 7 is nearing the end


Typing this on a Win7 machine. I don't want to "upgrade" it. Sigh.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4471989 - 04/26/19 05:42 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Ending support just means you won't get any more security updates. Just be careful where you browse online and you should be fine. smile


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4471993 - 04/26/19 06:14 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Unfortunately a lot of things in gaming are making it difficult to stay with windows 7.

MinecraftVR as well as certain VR flight sims and other games can't be used without Windows 10 due to a fundamental difference in how information is handled by the OS and used for VR.

Thinking I am going to bite the bullet and attempt a migration from my VERY stable, VERY old Windows 7 hard disk installation to a Windows 10 SSD install.

Really dread having to restart the customization process as it took years to get my machine into its current state of efficiency with all the different applications I use sporadically like the Adobe suite, Office, encryption, etc.. And let's not get started on drivers for hardware where the manufacturer went kaput 20 years ago..

#4471995 - 04/26/19 06:23 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Speaking of gaming and OS's, what ever happened to that big prediction and hoopla a few years ago about Linux taking over gaming from Windows??


I knew it was all pie in the sky talk from the outset.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4472001 - 04/26/19 06:49 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Most people who prefer using linux are playing games on it already. Most games more than a few years old already work on linux or variants of BSD like OSX etc..

#4472002 - 04/26/19 06:59 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
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Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Most people who prefer using linux are playing games on it already. Most games more than a few years old already work on linux or variants of BSD like OSX etc..


Which popular PC games run on Linux?

I have over 12 games currently installed on my PC and none of them run on Linux.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4472006 - 04/26/19 07:46 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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i run the following on linux (though usually use windows for convenience)

CMANO
Mount and Blade
Minecraft
Civilization (Any of them)
Cities Skylines
Total War (Almost all of them)
Kerbal Space Program
Dirt Rally
Hitman
Wolfenstein
Skyrim

among others. I think virtually all of the Paradox Interactive strategy/tactical games work on linux and BSD.

The limitation used to be that the games were too slow to run using WINE or similar programs, but nowadays computers have so much power that they blast through most of the performance limitations.

Steam is really pushing developers to make their games cross platform compatible as well

#4472010 - 04/26/19 08:00 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Screw Windows 10.

#4472011 - 04/26/19 08:03 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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This could change everything; Steam are rolling out and developing Proton, their own version of WINE Windows Emulation thingy. Already quite a few games work on Linux.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasone...now-run-on-steam-for-linux/#5908cdfee3fa

And most recently, there may yet be hope even for non-steam games.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasone...ou-play-windows-games-from-other-stores/

I'll be going to Linux directly from my gallant Windows 7, rather than have anything to do with Microsoft ever again.


Jens C. Lindblad


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#4472014 - 04/26/19 08:17 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
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Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
Unfortunately a lot of things in gaming are making it difficult to stay with windows 7.

MinecraftVR as well as certain VR flight sims and other games can't be used without Windows 10 due to a fundamental difference in how information is handled by the OS and used for VR.


My primary gaming machine / VR machine is Win10. But the PC I'm on now, which still runs a lot of older games, does everything I need running Win7.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4472016 - 04/26/19 08:29 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Longbow , just FYI I upgraded last week my 5 years old windows 7 install to a win10 install, using the "upgrade existing installation" instead of "new installation". I am not tottally comfy with the new UI yet, but so far all my old games custom installs (il2 46, steel fury, strike fighters 2, falcon BMS to name a few) work well. I had no driver search to perform for my printer, motherboard, warthog, pedals (didn't try my wheel or gamepad yet), everything went painless so far.

I needed to upgrade because my windows 7 family had a 16Gb ram limit, and I need 32Gb to run this DCS harware hog (which has both a fantastic F-14 and a very correct M2000 modules I can't deprive myself of).

Good luck on your OS move for those who do.

Last edited by rollnloop.; 04/26/19 08:47 PM. Reason: language
#4472020 - 04/26/19 08:59 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Thanks rolln.

Unfortunately the thing I want to do is get everything migrated over to an SSD and this may be a difficult thing to do. Just plopping windows 10 onto the HD is straightforward enough but when you try to migrate the OS to a different drive entirely...it doesn't seem like they ever expected or wanted people to do that without a full reinstall from scratch. I haven't started the process yet but I'm expecting it's going to require a lot of work to make it function properly.

#4472023 - 04/26/19 09:21 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I tried Linux for gaming once. For the games that I actually played back then it was worse than useless. I had a large Steam library and less that 5% of the games I owned had a native Linux version. That may have changed now but I'm unwilling to try it again when Win 10 runs everything I play perfectly.


“There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.”
#4472048 - 04/27/19 12:29 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Screw Windows 10.


Shame they don't have a 'like' button here. I'd be pressing it.

Win7 at home, but I have to endure win10 at work..interface just sucks.
Thank God I can VM into a very sane linux install there.


Last edited by piper; 04/27/19 12:31 AM.
#4472057 - 04/27/19 01:57 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Running Win10 on a Surface Pro 4, an ROG Laptop and two home built desktops (one is my Flight Sim rig) with no complaints except that occasionally one of the desktops does not want to see my NAS boxes properly.


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#4472059 - 04/27/19 02:07 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Support for Windows 7 is nearing the end


Typing this on a Win7 machine. I don't want to "upgrade" it. Sigh.


i had to because of my usb3 new mobo. windows 10 is not so bad....but it hides a lott from stupid users
well at least now its easier to get input on search from your pc instead of the internet, so i dont know how infuriating this was when it launched, so i'm glad i held untill the last time

#4472065 - 04/27/19 04:35 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by me

Although I've used Windows 7 I never ran Windows 7 as I milked my old PCs along on XP until it expired security updates. Once I realized the endless amount of counter measures I would have to take to turn off just the tracking and extra crap on Win8 I realized my time was soon coming to go to Linux.

I had dabbled in Linux, BSD variants and VM's for many years on occasion between 1999-2009 and so I was not completey unfamiliar with its benefits.
But also I was reluctant to try switching over since really Linux took a lot of work back then and game support was slim and hardware issues abounded.
Also just to set up Linux with a useful Desktop Enviroment / GUI was a hassle, fairly technical and buggy. Also just knowing the proper installer, partition method, etc could get very complex.

Now its really not for the most part. Complete Linux Distributions have matured which contain all the needed stuff and install very easy.
Mint and so many other like its base Ubuntu install relatively painlessly (in most cases) and are complete in GUI / Desktop Enviroment, meaning the user can perform any action without using a console (aka terminal, command prompt, shell).

That said it still makes it a whole lot easier for technical issues, customizations, and power-users if you read up a bit and get familiar with Linux and some of the vast power of the terminal commands available, etc.
Also its much faster to do many things and has powerful and fast search and similar functions from the 'shell'. But then again now does Windows if you use Powershell, etc.

As far as Gaming its been pointed out here Linux support has massively increased mostly due to demand and products like Steam. etc.

As far as actually replacing Windows 7 for Windows games if you have a bunch of them and custom setups (of course you do - this is SimHQ!) I wouldn't give up your Windows 7. Nor would I guarantee migrating to later Windows will not make you have to compromise.

Better you get used to having more than 1 machine for that favorite game until eventually you stop playing it or are willing to pay the price of migration.

Personally I echo this:
Originally Posted by McGonigle

I'll be going to Linux directly from my gallant Windows 7, rather than have anything to do with Microsoft ever again.


Thats the main reason I switched completely to Linux originally.
But now I actually like it a lot.
I get a lot more done, am more secure and less tracked, etc. I advance in my technical scope and have no lack of freely available tools and software. I don't ever have to search for 'cracks', downloads, etc.
i don't have to really ever 'pay' for any software again, although I can. There are paid software, games, even whole Linux Distros if needed. Heck I can even run Windows in a VM if I ever wanted (no reason to becaause anything you can do with Windows software you can do with Linux, with very few exceptions.

For instance the LibreOffice already installed with Mint is actually superior to MS Office for my uses and I love the Writer which I feel is better than M$ Word.

However I would say although I really think some Linux Distros like Mint are better than Windows and technically superior its not without its trevails. And in all reality these mature systems are somewhat similar in most ways and indeed some of the annoyances.
So for instance if you get 'bugged' by updates on Windows you might be bugged by upadtes on Linux because they occur constainly although you can control and limit them basically better.
And you can use a fixed system also that does not 'upgrade' but is static and either gets security updates or does not and may even be strickly designed for offine use.

Basically a Linux system is not exposed to the countless Windows attacks.

That said any internet facing software like Browsers etc. are the number one targets of exploits and they are vulnerable on Linux also. Just less of the time since many exploits just don't work on Linux.
Same with tracking now. Most tracking comes from your browser, or socail media or apps and Android, your phone, etc. Ultimately since people data is now currency of business we are scr*wd! l..

That said its real nice to fire up my Laptop and know without a single shred of unwanted data connections to the M$ empire.
I don't use ggogle, facebook, twitter, instagram, etc. and I don't miss nor need them.
Those companies can bite the dust and I really won't miss a beat.

Anyway personally my recommend has changed. I'm now in favor of using various machines for various purposes.
If you want a Window 7 machine or other for some reason now is the time.

See my post here at SimHQ about my new $20 Laptop:
Loving Linux Mint Toshiba Laptops

Craigslist or flea market, online you can buy loads of nice ones for dirt cheap since most people will just get another machine. Or rather they are forced to.
And frankly even on Linux you will be forced to upgrade eventually, as that is how the computer market works. Especially if you are a "got to have the lastest' type gamer. I'm not.

Anyhew...



Last edited by FsFOOT; 04/27/19 04:39 AM. Reason: quote=me shortens the post
#4472068 - 04/27/19 05:05 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Wow...some of you guys just can't let go, can you? Progress is good, boys. 10 is, for me, the smoothest and most trouble free Windows that has yet to be.


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Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia

#4472072 - 04/27/19 05:40 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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For those interested on dumping Windblows for good, here are some information to get you started in Linux for PC gaming. Personally Win7x64 and 8.1 are my last Windblows OS used at home. I am currently converting my fleet to Linux distros.







Domestic Robotics - www.DomesRO.com

#4472076 - 04/27/19 06:57 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: PanzerMeyer]  
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Originally Posted by PanzerMeyer
Ending support just means you won't get any more security updates. Just be careful where you browse online and you should be fine. smile

I'm not sure if that's meant to be a joke, but it's pretty irresponsible either way. Unless your browser of choice is Lynx, which can't do anything by design. Every day new exploits are detected, if those that don't get fixed simply make your exposure to the internet risky. It's not a matter of if, only of when. An unpatched Windows XP machine connecting to the internet will probably join a bot network in under ten minutes of browsing ad-heavy websites. Windows 7 is better off, but that will quickly change over the next months.

#4472108 - 04/27/19 04:18 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Still running my HTPC on Windows 7, since they've dropped support for Windows Media Center in WIn10. Only browsing I do is NetFlix.

#4472184 - 04/28/19 06:52 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Will they archive and make accessible all the old updates and security updates for folks who need to roll back or forward for whatever reason? Does it also mean Windows Security Essentials will cease to function? What happens to that program? I don't like being coerced to buy and move to a new OS. Windows 7 for me has been as good as Windows XP was and both are probably the longest used OSs that I've ever used. Is something like free AVG enough for protection when support drops?

#4472186 - 04/28/19 07:32 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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According to Microsoft's site (https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4057281/windows-7-support-will-end-on-january-14-2020):

What happens if I continue to use Windows 7?

You can continue to use Windows 7, but after support has ended, your PC will become more vulnerable to security risks and viruses. Windows will continue to start and run, but you will no longer receive software updates, including security updates, from Microsoft.


Can Windows 7 still be activated after January 14, 2020?

Windows 7 can still be installed and activated after end of support; however, it will be more vulnerable to security risks and viruses due to the lack of security updates. After January 14, 2020, Microsoft strongly recommends that you use Windows 10 instead of Windows 7.


I can't say for certain, but it looks to me like all of the security updates made available until the end of support will still be available, based on the fact that you'll still be able to install and activate it.


Ken Cartwright

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#4472189 - 04/28/19 08:18 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Coot]  
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Originally Posted by Coot
Does it also mean Windows Security Essentials will cease to function? What happens to that program?

Since it has been replaced by Windows Defender/Windows Security Center, I presume that it will no longer receive signature updates. This will be the functional equivalent of it ceasing to function; you could still run it, but without updates it will very quickly become worse than obsolete (since it would not report attacks that it does't recognize, it would create a false sense of security).

There is no way around it: Just like WIndows XP has become technologically obsolete, Windows 7 is about to. The only safe way to keep it running is to disconnect it from the internet. I can empathize with your resentment about the end of Windows 7. Like pretty much everybody else I liked it better than anything that came after it. But like anyone who had to let go of Windows XP, you're facing the inevitable. Cybercriminals worldwide are just waiting for anyone who, for whatever reason, isn't prepared to abandon Windows 7.

You can switch to Linux.
You can pull the Ethernet cable/cut your WiFi.

Or you'll have to make the switch to Windows 10.

Chances are, the free upgrade still works. I haven't tested it, but a year ago that was still the case, almost two years past the date beyond which Microsoft guaranteed the free upgrade option. You may not like switching the operating system. But it's not Microsoft coercing you. It's the cyber threat environment. Microsoft has done the right thing to make security the focus of their product development. After BSD, Windows 10 it's probably the second most secure operating system there is. No other OS gets attacked more often, so it's better prepared to deal with this threat spectrum than all the other operating systems. Keeping an operating system up to date in this cyber threat environment costs money. By buying a license you purchase support only for a limited time, whether that's made public (like in MS's case) or not (most others), unless the development is subsidized by someone else (like Linux, by IBM and Google).
Microsoft has made questionable product policy decisions, like forcing itself to a bi-annual feature upgrade cycle (a policy that seems to change now, looks like they realized that it was a mistake). I also don't like the GUI changes based on the assumption that everybody uses a touchscreen now. I think that's monumentally stupid, and I hate the wasteful design that's resulting from it. But I have to acknowledge that Microsoft is trying to do the right thing for its operating system (within the constraints of commercial software development) - establishing it as a service rather than a product. The market is no longer growing at a pace that selling licenses can finance the product development. At the same time, security must become a prime consideration for any OS developer. Other than BSD, I simply see no other manufacturer with a similar degree of attention in this area. The rest derives protection from small market shares, or, in the case of Android, is highly vulnerable in its default configuration.

Windows 8 was horrible, 8.1 already addressed a number of particularly stupid points, Windows 10 is now a relatively decent product. At least the Professional version, when set to delay upgrades by half a year, and with O&O's "Shutup 10" to restore your privacy. Just be sure not to create a MS user account on Windows 10 installation (the simplest way is to cut the internet connection during the first phase of the installation, after the download has been completed and the first reboot is under way.


Yes, reinstalling an operating system is painful, but it's not like the writing hasn't been on the wall for years.

#4472196 - 04/28/19 10:07 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Would there be any security advantage to running a Win7 (or WinXP for that matter) PC behind a (Linux based perhaps) hardware firewall?


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4472203 - 04/28/19 11:52 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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A firewall would always help, but if you visit a site and it has malware designed to use known exploits that haven't been patched on Windows 7, the firewall won't prevent it from installing through the browser or plug-in. Firewalls will generally protect you from what used to be called worms, that seek out systems to infect, but they don't usually do much for malware from websites, as long as the ports that the website, and possible plug-ins, are using are not blocked by the firewall.

Most standard wireless routers will protect you from worms with about the same effectiveness as a Linux-based firewall.


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#4472206 - 04/29/19 12:07 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I wouldn't rule it out, but at the end of the day if the Linux PC/hardware firewall isn't configured to perform deep packet inspection I don't see how it could stop attacks that target vulnerabilities of browsers or the Windows operating system if they are just being passed through. I mean, every router is such a "Linux PC" between your machine and the internet. Yes, you usually block a lot of trouble that way (like, by closing all ports that aren't explicitly required), but not all of it (like, attacks going though open ports that you just NEED for http connections, fetching email, streaming your Netflix, ...).
And of course - once that the router has been compromised all bets are off. Also, I'm not sure how a "hardware firewall" is supposed to evolve with the threat spectrum. A software firewall can be updated; you wouldn't want to buy a new hardware firewall with up-to-date virus signatures every six hours (even if it existed, which it doesn't). Finally, you can't fix stupid. If the user double-clicks that super-trustworthy email attachment from that Nigerian all-caps FRIEND IN NEED, that's the end of it, no matter how many precautions you took.


Frankly, with tools such as Classic Shell you can retain much of the Windows 7 GUI look & feel. Switching over to Windows 10 is the least onerous option available. Switching to Linux might gve you a good feeling to "show the man" but it's definitely more painful than migrating from Windows 7 to 10. Don't get me wrong, it's possible to have a good user experience with Linux. But don't tell me it's less of a pain than migrating from 7 to 10. Likewise, setting up that Linux based firewall PC is just going to invoke a different kind of pain since you'll then have to maintain two operating systems, with considerably less security as a result (so what's the point). No matter how I look at the situation, I simply can see no rational justification for the overwhelming majority of use cases to stick with Windows 7 - except for nostalgia, or other emotional ties.

#4472208 - 04/29/19 02:16 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Does Windows Defender support Windows 7 or is that a Windows 10 program? Regardless if its Microsoft or cybercriminals or both, its still forcing people's hand. Both parties have too much control. Stinks having a PC that's been pretty darn future proof for gaming needs only to have the OS become a significant issue. I've heard people talk about having gaming rigs that stay offline and they only use a secondary computer for online stuff including downloading files that they may need to install on the other machine. It'll take some retraining of thought but that sounds like the best immediate option for someone not able or willing to adopt a new OS right now.

#4472216 - 04/29/19 03:56 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Coot, as Ssnake said, no one is forcing you to give up Windows 7, it won't stop working, it just won't get security updates. Also as Ssnake said, it costs money to keep updating it - it's not like a wrench that is a simple mechanical device, people are trying to find ways to steal stuff from you when you use it, so you need to keep updating it.

You can't buy new movies on VHS anymore for similar reasons, that it costs money to produce them and it's just not worth it, even if people still have VHS VCRs at home and would like to use them. New products have been released and companies are putting their money into supporting those. Microsoft even offered the replacement for free - try getting that for a new media format. Should Microsoft support Windows 7 forever? Is there ever a time when they could let it go? I'd say getting updates for 10 years is not a bad deal from a one-time purchase of under $100 (assuming you bought Windows with the PC).

Fact is, you can still get updates for Windows 7 from Microsoft, you just have to pay for it. You'd have to go with Windows 7 Pro, and the costs will start at $50 for the first year before going up to $100 in year two and $200 during year three.


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#4472219 - 04/29/19 05:02 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I still use my Win98 system with a WinXP emulator. The last computer I purchased is XP service pak2. Both computers do all I want or need from a computer. Honestly, I prefer DOS. Your fancy OS still talks to a CPU that only knows binary.

I chased the computer revolution from the late 80's through the 2000's. If I did not need the web for motorcycle repair parts, I would drop it. I have never owned a cell phone. I drive less then 2k miles per year.

When I create commerce, I go to the store. I do not need instant gratification, and the bonus is the clerk has a job.

I smoke and drink like a fiend in hopes I die. I can not stand the society that the internet has created.

smile wish you all good.


TPA who TWI
#4472220 - 04/29/19 05:38 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I understand that no one is technically forcing a Windows 7 user's hand but with the numerous warnings of almost assured security threats, for one to feel that their system and personal information and intellectual property is secure while connected online its a forceful compelling to indeed upgrade or figure something else out. I don't require a free update nor Microsoft to support something forever. I don't expect that nor would I. Unfortunately technology does not work that way often and some of that is by design unfortunately. I'm happy with my Windows 7 until one day in the future where I might get a new PC altogether. That is not my issue though which I think some are misunderstanding. I've been more than satisfied with Windows 7 and hopefully I will not need to change anytime soon. Technology however, is becoming way more expensive in ways that many don't realize I think. That's what I take umbrage with. There's a control and encroachment that comes along with it. We're approaching a time I believe where we are all going to have to make a serious decision whether to proceed or divorce ourselves from it as best we can. That's a different subject though. So don't mind me. I'm not irate just concerned and trying to be cautious about the bigger picture. Thanks to all for the links and information. This still is a great and helpful community.

#4472223 - 04/29/19 06:08 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Coot]  
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Originally Posted by Coot
Does Windows Defender support Windows 7 or is that a Windows 10 program?

It's the Windows 10 successor to WIndows 7's Security Essentials, with more functionality.
Quote
Regardless if its Microsoft or cybercriminals or both, its still forcing people's hand. Both parties have too much control.

Not sure what to say. Maybe you're right but are you ready to disconnect your machine from the internet because of it?
Switch to Linux, and the cybercriminals will still attempt to attack you. Stick with Windows 7, and let your computer become the b!tch of the first botnet you run into. You'll have to pick among these three options. There are no alternatives. You can't change the cybercriminals, nor can you influence Microsoft's product policy. At this point your protestations are becoming a waste of effort. Inaction is the choice to surrender to the cybercriminals: Your computer, sooner rather than later, will become vulnerable to cyberattacks. If you don't pull the plug your machine will join Oleg's botnet, and be available for other cybercriminals that hire Oleg's botnet for their criminal activities.

Quote
Stinks having a PC that's been pretty darn future proof for gaming needs only to have the OS become a significant issue.

Seriously, that is like complaining that you have a "top notch car, only the brakes are deficient." It doesn't matter that there's no rust, that the engine is 75mpg and delivers 500hp, and that the custom paint job is the envy of the world. You need to look at the whole package, and that includes the operating system and the application software side of it. The idea that an operating system lasts forever was never true, and never will be in our lifetime.

Quote
I've heard people talk about having gaming rigs that stay offline and they only use a secondary computer for online stuff including downloading files that they may need to install on the other machine.

Whatever floats your boat. I don't think it's a practical solution, but it could be "a" solution.

#4472224 - 04/29/19 06:15 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Coot]  
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Originally Posted by Coot
I don't require a free update nor Microsoft to support something forever. I don't expect that nor would I.

Be honest here. You also want to be connected to the internet, and be protected reasonably well against joining Oleg's bot army. And you want to play games. This unique combination is, at this point, the exclusive domain of Microsoft. OpenBSD is more secure, but you can't play games. You can play some games on Linux (or MacOS/OSX), but probably not the one that you want most, and your main protection, running a comparatively obscure operating system, will vanish faster than a thin layer of snow at the bottom of Death Valley as soon as Linux would gain a sufficiently large market share to attract the cybercriminals' attention.

#4472225 - 04/29/19 07:18 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Hey Ssnake, I have a say just as you do, however I don't think anything warrants such a response. I think my statements are being misunderstood and that's okay. My mind it somewhere totally different with regards to this subject matter and perhaps that's my fault for placing those thoughts here. Yes indeed, disconnecting from the internet is exactly what I am suggesting, contemplating and referring to. I'm even suggesting and contemplating for myself an even bigger action. My hope is that others will know when its time to do the same thing. A protest is never a waste of effort when it counts and that speaks to the "bigger picture" I alluded to.

#4472234 - 04/29/19 10:48 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Ssnake]  
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Originally Posted by Ssnake

Quote
I've heard people talk about having gaming rigs that stay offline and they only use a secondary computer for online stuff including downloading files that they may need to install on the other machine.

Whatever floats your boat. I don't think it's a practical solution, but it could be "a" solution.



The gamers who have such a scheme (100% offline PC for gaming) is a rather small and older demographic which will eventually die off.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4472242 - 04/29/19 12:48 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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If someone can afford to buy a new desktop/laptop then by now they should be using Windows 10 when even some of the most obscure government agencies who receive the least amount of operating funds have done so


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4472243 - 04/29/19 12:52 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Haggart]  
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Originally Posted by Haggart
If someone can afford to buy a new desktop/laptop then by now they should be using Windows 10 when even some of the most obscure government agencies who receive the least amount of operating funds have done so



Even USCIS went to WIN 10 a couple of months ago. LMAO


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4472244 - 04/29/19 01:03 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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#4472248 - 04/29/19 01:30 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Ssnake]  
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Originally Posted by Ssnake
Originally Posted by Coot
Does Windows Defender support Windows 7 or is that a Windows 10 program?

It's the Windows 10 successor to WIndows 7's Security Essentials, with more functionality.


I have Windows 7 and I have Windows Defender. My plan is to build a new rig within the next 2 years and it will be a Windows 10 rig. I will retain my Windows 7 rig and that should hold me until I turn back to dirt. yep

S!Blade<><

Last edited by Blade_Meister; 04/29/19 01:31 PM.
#4472253 - 04/29/19 02:31 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Coot]  
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Originally Posted by Coot
Hey Ssnake, I have a say just as you do, however I don't think anything warrants such a response. I think my statements are being misunderstood and that's okay. My mind it somewhere totally different with regards to this subject matter and perhaps that's my fault for placing those thoughts here. Yes indeed, disconnecting from the internet is exactly what I am suggesting, contemplating and referring to. I'm even suggesting and contemplating for myself an even bigger action. My hope is that others will know when its time to do the same thing. A protest is never a waste of effort when it counts and that speaks to the "bigger picture" I alluded to.

Coot, I don't mean this in an argumentative way, I'm jut not sure what it is you are trying to convey with your posts relating to Windows 7 vs Windows 10. What is it that you think should be done differently, exactly, and why? Software upgrades and OS upgrades have been around since computers got started, and I am not sure I am understanding how you feel that should be changed.


Ken Cartwright

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#4472264 - 04/29/19 03:49 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Interesting is that the "alternatives" suggested for don't migrate for Windows 10 is more complicated than just install Windows 10. smile

I did - after all are free; the interface is indeed a steep back (relative to wind 7 simplicity), but in few weeks get used, and this OS has proved "rock solid" for my (few) games.;)

#4472270 - 04/29/19 04:19 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I have not had a single blue screen crash at all under WIN 10 so far. It is indeed a rock solid OS.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4472273 - 04/29/19 04:25 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Coot]  
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Originally Posted by Coot
Hey Ssnake, I have a say just as you do


Yes, you do, and I didn't mean to come across confrontative. It's just, you'll have to make a choice between one of three alternatives, and doing nothing is one such choice. Each of these options will have consequences as laid out above. I'm very blunt about this topic not because I think you're stupid but because of all the other readers of this thread that may be in a similar situation. I can empathize with the emotional reservations to switch to Windows 10. But if you are still on Windows 7 you got here because you've been procrastinating a hard, but necessary decision. Kicking the can further down the road is, in my professional opinion, the worst choice unless you are, indeed, willing to pull the internet plug. Which, however, is only further delaying the inevitable. Sooner or later you'll run into compatibility issues.

It is _my opinion_ that Windows 10 is the least problematic option, at least as far as the involved workload is concerned. Even privacy issues can be dealt with in an acceptable manner. MS introduced the OS registration with Windows XP; technically the last Windows version that truly left you alone was Windows 2000. Forced updates you got with Windows 7. Microsoft wouldn't have bothered with it were it not for the fact that 99% of all Windows users are terrible, terrible administrators of their own IT systems. As usual, 90% of all regulation that sucks is a reaction to the 2% imbeciles that do stupid stuff that endangers other people (except that in this case the 2% are 99%, at which point you have to admit that there wasn't really much else that MS could have done to respond to that situation). Yes, you're losing freedom, but you're free to switch to some entirely different OS. It's just that you picked Windows for reasons, and those reasons haven't gone away.

If you decide to update to Windows 10 and if you are concerned about your privacy - a perfectly reasonable position - you basically need two things. During the first reboot, cut the internet conncetion. Create your "indispensable Microsoft account" later (MUCH later. Like, never). When the upgrade is complete, run O&O's "Shutup 10", change your settings. Reboot. Change the settings again. Reboot. Change settings one more time, Reboot. Check settings one last time for good measure. And remember to do so again after every major update. Yes, it sucks, but if it's important to you it's a problem that can be dealt with. Other than that, and the GUI changes, Windows 10 isn't half bad.

#4472277 - 04/29/19 04:38 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.

My computer.

MY data.

None of their #%&*$# business.

This is why many of us want to stay on Windows 7. We aren't chattel.

#4472280 - 04/29/19 04:42 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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OK I'm om Win 7 now and looks like I might have to bite the bullet..I need a Win 10 Version with it's own key..Had to reinstall Win 7 and it wouldn't accept the key on the side of the box,Sais call HP ,,That was useless But the computer store put in an OEM version,,,Any suggestions about where to buy Win 10 ??


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#4472293 - 04/29/19 05:29 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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For those here who's main objection to Win 10 is the horrible start menu (I agree) there's an easy solution.
http://www.classicshell.net/
You can have Win 10 look like pretty much any previous version of Windows you want with this.


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Win 10
#4472294 - 04/29/19 05:31 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Watch Amazon, occasionally resellers have keys for sale, picked up a pro key for $12 a few months back, works legit with MS. Catch is they'll never transfer to a new machine, and probably won't if you make major hardware changes either.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/get-windows-10-free-or-cheap,5717.html

#4472296 - 04/29/19 05:43 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.

My computer.

MY data.

None of their #%&*$# business.

This is why many of us want to stay on Windows 7. We aren't chattel.

Yep, if only Microsoft would update Windows 7 forever, you wouldn't have to worry about the data being gathered by Windows 10. Sure, they are both from Microsoft, and they can put anything they want in an update, but I'm sure they would never add any tracking changes to Windows 7 through an update. Would they?


Ken Cartwright

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#4472304 - 04/29/19 06:31 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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They already have tried to. One of those updates I've purposefully made changes to Windows Update to avoid.

#4472310 - 04/29/19 06:55 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I'm not speaking to OS upgrades or Windows 7 Vs Windows 10. If I've not been clear on that forgive me. My mind is on something else. I'm referring to the day where one may need to seriously consider divorcing themselves from certain types of technology, especially online always type technology. As a gamer that's not something I'd immediately look forward to and would be somewhat painful especially considering an almost 12 year old Steam library full of game purchases.

#4472311 - 04/29/19 06:58 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Coot]  
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Originally Posted by Coot
an almost 12 year old Steam library full of game purchases.



Games that you already have installed in Steam you can launch with no internet connection. You just wouldn't be able to buy any new games or do any multiplayer obviously. Some of the social gaming stuff like achievements also won't work anymore.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#4472324 - 04/29/19 08:38 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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I think you have to have Steam go online at least once though to change games into offline mode. Is that correct? I'm not sure about that as it isn't something I've really tried often. This discussion also made me wonder something else and it has to do with Steam. If you have an internet connection solely to download, reinstall or play games on your Steam account, as long as you don't go online in an internet browser would your system still be relatively safe? I would think Steam's security would remain intact for the program itself.

#4472331 - 04/29/19 09:18 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Technically the Steam application is a web browser. The question is, how much will you trust the Steam network to suppress malicious code. _I_ wouldn't risk it, but then again my user profile is markedly different from yours. My professional advice still is to switch to Windows 10. You can still pull the plug, or configure it to send all telemetry data to 127.0.0.0 rather than to Microsoft if you don't trust the Windows settings themselves (or Shutup 10). The point is, it really requires but a single sting to puncture the Windows 7 security at some point in the future. Querying the operating system is a standard function for any web server. Loading specific code and injecting it into an HTML page to exploit a well-documented vulnerability is the standard technique. In which case Oleg will do the upgrading of your system for you, as his script assimilates your computer into his Borg net.
The reality is, we're all operating in a high-threat cyber environment, if we know it or not. Our servers get attacked non-stop by automated tests that simply scan for open ports and then probe for vulnerabilities; it's not like they are targeting us specifically, it's just what they do to EVERY machine, all the time. If your computer has an external IP address, it will get tested by people like Oleg. If you open a web page that delivers ad rotations, any of those ads can already contain the code to install a tiny program that will then load bigger software packages to rip your security apart within minutes while you still browse the web. And since Windows 7 receives no more updates it means that it cannot detect such attacks, let alone defend against them. Of course you could use adblockers, and switch off Javascript. Or use Lynx. That certainly helps to reduce your exposure, but even then your vulnerability still remains. It's like a patient with an immune system that fades away. You can try and isolate him but sooner or later some microbes will find their way into his body and if the immune system hasn't been strengthened, even otherwise harmless infections can kill him within very short periods.

The rational response to an environment full of bacteria isn't to develop germophobia and then to collect your pee in milk jars. Only eccentric billionaires have that privilege. Rather, you do everything to strengthen your immune system, and you apply basic principles of hygiene. Like, Adblockers still aren't such a bad idea even if your operating system is up to date. You maintain your virus scanner with regular updates. You install a firewall. You configure your router to not respond to incoming requests. You don't switch off your brains when installing "free" software from shady sources.

I'm not saying that becoming a recluse can't work. All I'm saying is, it's a risky path (you need to let your guard down only once), and a very stony one at that. Be sure that you choose this road for the right reasons.

#4472333 - 04/29/19 09:38 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.

My computer.

MY data.

None of their #%&*$# business.

While I agree with that attitude in principle, literally billions of people made their data someone else's business with their decision to go for "free" stuff. You purchase things online? Every mouse cursor move on your screen is recorded by the web shop while you've visiting it. You accept third party cookies? EVERYTHING you do on the web gets recorded, and aggregated in the data set that is your digital twin. You have a Samsung Smart TV with voice recognition? Everything anyone says in front of the TV, even when it's on standby, will get transmitted to a server farm in Korea. You have Alexa? Everything you say in earshot range gets transmitted to Amazon, and is kept in their digital vaults forever. You use Siri? Apple records and stores your conversations. You "google" for information? You let yourself be googled at the same time. And don't get me started about social media; they have but a single purpose: To identify relationships among people. That's their business. Knowing who has how intense connections with whom, the social graph.
Microsoft is only one commercial spy among dozens that you probably use already. You have a smartphone? Your smartphone (and through it, the manufacturer and (less so, but still) your telephone company) probably know you better than your wife does. Every step you take is recorded by GPS receivers, nearby Wifi cell strength logging, and the gravity sensor. Every breath you take, every word you say to your digital assistant, every selfie you upload to Instagram, they are watching you. Sure, they aren't interested in you, specifically. But they will happily sell your profile to anyone who is interested in someone like you.

I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords. But obviously I'm representing a very small minority. Windows 10 on a desktop can still be reigned in. It's a minor nuisance, but you don't lose functionality if you make it shut up. With smartphones you aren't even given the chance, by default.

#4472346 - 04/29/19 11:06 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Ssnake]  
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Originally Posted by Ssnake
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.

My computer.

MY data.

None of their #%&*$# business.

While I agree with that attitude in principle, literally billions of people made their data someone else's business with their decision to go for "free" stuff. You purchase things online? Every mouse cursor move on your screen is recorded by the web shop while you've visiting it. You accept third party cookies? EVERYTHING you do on the web gets recorded, and aggregated in the data set that is your digital twin. You have a Samsung Smart TV with voice recognition? Everything anyone says in front of the TV, even when it's on standby, will get transmitted to a server farm in Korea. You have Alexa? Everything you say in earshot range gets transmitted to Amazon, and is kept in their digital vaults forever. You use Siri? Apple records and stores your conversations. You "google" for information? You let yourself be googled at the same time. And don't get me started about social media; they have but a single purpose: To identify relationships among people. That's their business. Knowing who has how intense connections with whom, the social graph.
Microsoft is only one commercial spy among dozens that you probably use already. You have a smartphone? Your smartphone (and through it, the manufacturer and (less so, but still) your telephone company) probably know you better than your wife does. Every step you take is recorded by GPS receivers, nearby Wifi cell strength logging, and the gravity sensor. Every breath you take, every word you say to your digital assistant, every selfie you upload to Instagram, they are watching you. Sure, they aren't interested in you, specifically. But they will happily sell your profile to anyone who is interested in someone like you.

I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords. But obviously I'm representing a very small minority. Windows 10 on a desktop can still be reigned in. It's a minor nuisance, but you don't lose functionality if you make it shut up. With smartphones you aren't even given the chance, by default.


No smartphone
No voice command television
No Alexa
No GPS in my car
No Facebook
No Instagram, Pinterest, or any other social media beyond LinkedIn

I think I'm doing pretty good. smile

#4472365 - 04/30/19 01:36 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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JimK Offline
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
Originally Posted by Ssnake
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
You have to change privacy settings in Win 10 after every update? What a pain in the ass.

My computer.

MY data.

None of their #%&*$# business.

While I agree with that attitude in principle, literally billions of people made their data someone else's business with their decision to go for "free" stuff. You purchase things online? Every mouse cursor move on your screen is recorded by the web shop while you've visiting it. You accept third party cookies? EVERYTHING you do on the web gets recorded, and aggregated in the data set that is your digital twin. You have a Samsung Smart TV with voice recognition? Everything anyone says in front of the TV, even when it's on standby, will get transmitted to a server farm in Korea. You have Alexa? Everything you say in earshot range gets transmitted to Amazon, and is kept in their digital vaults forever. You use Siri? Apple records and stores your conversations. You "google" for information? You let yourself be googled at the same time. And don't get me started about social media; they have but a single purpose: To identify relationships among people. That's their business. Knowing who has how intense connections with whom, the social graph.
Microsoft is only one commercial spy among dozens that you probably use already. You have a smartphone? Your smartphone (and through it, the manufacturer and (less so, but still) your telephone company) probably know you better than your wife does. Every step you take is recorded by GPS receivers, nearby Wifi cell strength logging, and the gravity sensor. Every breath you take, every word you say to your digital assistant, every selfie you upload to Instagram, they are watching you. Sure, they aren't interested in you, specifically. But they will happily sell your profile to anyone who is interested in someone like you.

I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords. But obviously I'm representing a very small minority. Windows 10 on a desktop can still be reigned in. It's a minor nuisance, but you don't lose functionality if you make it shut up. With smartphones you aren't even given the chance, by default.


No smartphone
No voice command television
No Alexa
No GPS in my car
No Facebook
No Instagram, Pinterest, or any other social media beyond LinkedIn

I think I'm doing pretty good. smile


WOW, same boat, but need to unload a lot. When time comes, I will let it die and try live live. Grew up a boy scout, still have all those old school skills.
Think its time to revert back before I die. Which does not feel far away. Health is taking a turn I never expected.


Erebus Full Tower:Windows 7 Ult 64bit:Intel� Core� i7
3930K Processor(6x 3.20GHz)32GB[4 GB X8] DDR3-1866:GPU
NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan 6GB:1.5Kw PSU: 43" Sceptre 4k:
LG Blu-ray burner,: hd1/750GB,hd2/2TB,hd3/1TB,hd4/1TB,HD5/4TB

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#4472375 - 04/30/19 03:00 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Coot Offline
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!!USA!!
Quote
I for one do not welcome our techno-overlords.
I'm glad you stand against that Ssnake. That's part of the bigger picture my posts were referring to. A likely divorce is in my future regardless when I feel the time is right. I hope others do as well if inclined.

Last edited by Coot; 04/30/19 04:18 AM.
#4472399 - 04/30/19 09:47 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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DM Offline
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Prague
Meh. I guess, after holding out for as long as I reasonably could, that I'll just upgrade to Win 10. Now that I'm dabbling in VR gaming I'm finding more and more instances where Win 7 is more of a hindrance for that. It's as good as any reason to upgrade, when the old OS just cannot access functionality that I now need.

For information, I Googled how to upgrade for free:
https://www.howtogeek.com/272201/all-the-ways-you-can-still-get-windows-10-for-free/

If you still have your Win 7/8/etc key then it seems you should be good to go.

After "holding out" for as long as I could, I eventually had to move to Win 10 on my work machine. It's not nearly as traumatic as I had thought. So my two home PCs will get upgraded assuming the old keys work.


"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
#4472402 - 04/30/19 10:31 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Ssnake Offline
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If you don't trust the manufacturer of an operating system, you shouldn't use that operating system in the first place.

#4472405 - 04/30/19 10:45 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Ssnake]  
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DM  Offline
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Prague
Originally Posted by Ssnake
If you don't trust the manufacturer of an operating system, you shouldn't use that operating system in the first place.


It's not that I don't trust MS, I do generally, but my nature is that I don't upgrade unless there's a compelling reason to. I paid a lot of money for Win 7 Pro and I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that upgrading at that time meant I was going from an expensive Pro OS to a free base version where every time there was an update I'd see stuff appearing on my desktop I didn't really want.

My current compelling reasons have arrived: no more security updates and VR functionality.


"They might look the same, but they don't taste the same."
#4472426 - 04/30/19 02:34 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Mr_Blastman Offline
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If you could buy a license to Windows 10 that would absolutely be free of spyware or telemetry, that would be something. But I don't think you can.

#4472428 - 04/30/19 02:46 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Chucky Offline
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
If you could buy a license to Windows 10 that would absolutely be free of spyware or telemetry, that would be something. But I don't think you can.


No,but you can do something about it after it's installed. Ssnake has mentioned O&O's "Shutup 10". I don't use that,I use the free version of Ashampoo's Winoptimizer 2019 that allows you to configure privacy settings to 'safe' and Win 10 privacy settings to 'safe'. How 'safe' that is I don't exactly know,you can pick and choose what you want blocked and I'm no expert on that. I use 'default' settings.

I find Win 10 is much better than 7 ever was but I understand not everyone feels that way. I didn't think that when it first came out,I was cursing it and went back to 7 a few times. Now it's been out 3 years it's matured into my favourite O/S.


“There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.”
#4472448 - 04/30/19 04:15 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Chucky]  
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Ssnake Offline
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Germoney
Originally Posted by Chucky
Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
If you could buy a license to Windows 10 that would absolutely be free of spyware or telemetry, that would be something. But I don't think you can.


No,but you can do something about it after it's installed.

The important first step is to NOT create an account with Microsoft on setup. The UI for bypassing it is deliberately confusing and misleading, so the easiest way to bypass this hurdle is to pull the ethernet plug on the first start of the installation. In that case the installer defaults to the option to create the account (much) later. The problem is, once that you have created a non-local account for your login you have already lost a good portion of your control, and you can't undo that. So you really need to pay attention on this first step.
For the rest, whether you use the Windows built-in dialogs (scattered (deliverately, i assume) over several dozen different places) or a more convenient tool is up to personal preferences. O&O is a Microsoft Certified Partner (heh...), so I assume that they know what they're doing.

#4472451 - 04/30/19 04:23 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Chucky Offline
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UK
I've had a M$ account for some while,I didn't realise until you pointed it out Ssnake that my data could be shared by M$ (always read the small print frown ).

I deleted my account,I assume that's the end of it?

Last edited by Chucky; 04/30/19 04:24 PM.

“There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.”
#4472469 - 04/30/19 06:37 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,269
Nixer Offline
Scaliwag and Survivor
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Living with the Trees
There should be public cameras and microphones around the Gate's and all the social media Kings 24/7.

It's only fair...


"I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging of the future but by the past."
Patrick Henry 1775

I personally believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and that deficit spending is sustainable forever. We really do need more Admirals in the Navy than ships and that millions of more poor immigrants will jump start the economy.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
Phineas Taylor Barnum

#4472532 - 05/01/19 05:05 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: Coot]  
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MarkG Offline
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The Bayou
Due to production software I use, my main workstation can never exceed WinXP SP2. Them's the breaks, but I don't mind being retro because I'm also really cheap. smile Plus all my DOS software works well in DOSBox on this PC.

Many years ago I got the word out among family and friends not to discard their 8-tracks until they've talked with me. Today it's XP-era Dell PCs and they've been most generous, I've acquired quite a collection. Like a nutjob hoarding supplies in his basement for the imminent zombie apocalypse, I have an attic full of ~Y2K Dells with accompanying software. smile What's nice is that the WinXP CDs that shipped with these PCs (and I have several) are full install-from-scratch CDs (not a recovery system) which require no online activation, only a Dell motherboard(?). And self-activation seems to be completely interchangeable, even with my couple of Win2000 Dells. My original WinXP Dell has never given me trouble with hard daily use so I may never need these other backup PCs.

Going online is different, of course. My Win7 laptop died but instead of replacing it with a new one (Win10), I added a dual-boot Linux Mint on my XP laptop (originally came with Vista) just for going online. Works fine.

One day I'll purchase a new baseline Win10 laptop for going online, I just don't need it right now. I probably won't like 10 much anyway, but then I never cared for 7 (vs. XP) for overall usability.

#4472537 - 05/01/19 06:51 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
Joined: Dec 2015
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FsFOOT Offline
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Southern California, USA
Originally Posted by MarkG

Going online is different, of course. My Win7 laptop died but instead of replacing it with a new one (Win10), I added a dual-boot Linux Mint on my XP laptop (originally came with Vista) just for going online. Works fine.


Thats a decent approach to the vulnerability issue.

Lowering the risk / exposure to threats is probably the most important measure.

Not using an administrator account, staying offline primarily is # 1. (But then who of us power-user / gamer types really do that?)

The browser or any internet capable software is where most of the risk is at IMHO. And then office / pdf , adobe products, other media like shockwave, flash, silverlight, and video.
But thats not all of course even audio and various documents as well as everything from fonts to various other crap in Windows are vulnerable. You can get various programs and weblinks to info on the stuff like this:
see: https://www.flexera.com/products/operations/software-vulnerability-manager.html
( see: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/detect-vulnerable-programs-with-secunia-psi/ but be aware secundia does retain some statistical data, etc.)

Others things people can do is locking down the permissions on the system, removing vulnerable software and unneeded services from the system, and not allowing foreign files into the system.

Windows 7 definately has more advantage than XP in the area of permissions locking ability and I'm fairly sure a competent administrator and a dose of EMET or similar can still secure an Win 7 machine for years if they are painstakingly careful. And stay off the internet.

However, the main problem with all these approaches IMHO is not so much that systems can't be made generally far more secure than any average person's default install, but that packages and exploits that specifically target areas of the system that are undefendable increasingly abound.

That's the main reason for a lot of security patching. People out there ~ "the Bad Guys'" love not only to find exploits but to proliferate them over the internet / torrents / dark web, etc.
Criminals and wannabe-bad hacker types can buy or freely get entire ready made tools and scripts that may be able to get into your system just from your browser triggering a hyperlink to a webserver that they are using.

Crackers / bad hackers usually target Popular stuff.
Browsers are bad really and AFAIK Lynx is not secure browser even, and there are no browsers that are totaly secure.
To be more secure you would want to avoid TCP/IP of the internet as it is by nature flawed.

btw - From a real serious security point of view a machine that is easily compromised you would never want facing your network, much less internet.
Anyway, before I ramble on more one last point is that some old games that use online play are not very secure or even totaly insecure. For example games of the old DirectPlay era like EAW you never want to do TCP/IP directy over the internet ideally. But then again there were EAW players that did this for years with np. But most used a service and tunnel the connection.
I always warned players even then not drop their guard since a tunnel does nothing to prevent attacks from others in the tunnel. But frankly EAW was never popular enough to attract the eyes of hackers / criminals.

#4472540 - 05/01/19 09:10 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
Joined: Apr 2002
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McGonigle Offline
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Copenhagen, Denmark
Why I still won't touch 10:
1) I absolutely loathe and abhor the 10 UI, it is a ghastly experience and installing classic shell which is now unsupported and no longer developed just added 30 seconds to my boot time. No thank you very much.
2) 10 couldn't see my e book readers
3) 10 is bloated like never before with Wow gee silly stuff like Cortana and 3D paint in which I have absolutely no interest. Maybe there are hacks to get rid of it but you know what? I absolutely do not want to watste a single moment searching for, implementing and maintaining such hacks
4) MS Store and especially bloatware like the media player which is default and cant' be uninstalled. It absolutely sucks in comparison with say VLC for sound quality
5) Online account, yeah, you can circumvent it but what about next time MS updates 10? Will it be back with a "By the way, we noticed you have not set up an account with us. we recommend you do it now since it offers increased security:"
6) There are settings here and there are settings there. In Microsoft, you search for settings everywhere.
7) Tiles...... My eyes bleed.
8) Unable to adjuist the OS to my configuration. I do not have a touch screen on my desktop pc so I do not need any tiles!
9) Several recent updates have been extremely buggy for some users.
10) They still think they can converge themselves into offering one, massive OS for everything, from PC's and phones (which they don't do anymore) to IoT.

What should MS have done then:
1) Kept the overall look and feel of 7 with perhaps a minor graphical tweak
2) Built in sensors or adopted a modular add-on approach so we would not get or at least could opt out of functionality we don't want, like UI for touch screens or 3D paint or Cortana.
3) Continued updating / security patching, obviously.

Options:
1) Stay with 7 at least until support actually stops dead. There might be an extended period of updates, like for XP. Let's wait and see.
2) Stay with 7 post end of support for safe computing i.e. keep updating anti-virus, anti-malware and running ESET. Using 7 as a Legacy Games Machine. Everything else is handled by Chomebook or iPad
3) Play with other OS' like Linux or ReactOS

In conclusion: 10, for me does not seem like a good option. Compatibility with legacy games is decreasing and at a point newer processors will be entirely incapable of handling older games. Newer games do not hold much interest for me. So even if I downgraded to 10, in time I wouldn't be able to play the older games. So what have I lost? nothing!




Last edited by McGonigle; 05/01/19 09:13 AM.

Jens C. Lindblad


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#4472548 - 05/01/19 10:20 AM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Ssnake Offline
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I don't think Microsoft can afford making the Microsoft account mandatory for Windows users, just like it cannot force software vendors to sell their software exclusively through the MS App Store, for the sole reason that it would simply not be tolerated in the corporate/business world. This is MS's true stronghold. Whatever they do, if they act against the manifest interests of the business world they would be slaughtering their cash cow. I cannot imagine that a board of directors that attempted this wouldn't be immediately sacked by the major shareholders.
You can't get rid of Cortana, but you can choose to simply not use it, like all the other software that MS made uninstallable. Yet, it lies dormant somewhere in the RAM, but that's about it. In the last three days, 14 hours, nine minutes, Cortana stole a total of 54 seconds of CPU time on my computer, probably the seconds I needed after the last update (I just got the one from last October) to configure it to stay away.

Yes, I too would very much like to be left alone entirely by MS and retain full control over my machine. But I have to acknowledge that the imbeciles I spoke with in the 1990s about IT security ruined everything for everybody; real-life money quotes:
  • "Me, updates? Yeeh, mebbe later..."
  • "Oh, you found my computer has been hijacked by spammers? Meh, there's nothing you can do about it."
  • "Hey, I got this free tool from this obscure website, where I get all my other stuff from. Most is crap, but this one here could be interesting.
    I install at least two new programs every week."

#4472554 - 05/01/19 12:38 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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MarkG Offline
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I'm making spending less time online a lifestyle change. It's impossible to go cold turkey (just last night before posting I ordered off Amazon a new drum belt and idler pulley for my Samsung dryer, already disassembled from watching YouTube DIY videos), but I try not to web surf anymore without purpose. SimHQ is still my only online interaction and I've cut way back on posting. I think of it like the non-threatening skin cancer recently removed from my nose. Applying sunblock before going outside for any length of time is good, but spending less time in the sun is best.

What helps to curb my online appetite, besides Linux being a little clunky (likely just not familiar enough) is that my laptop is in a permanent and not so comfortable location (1st pic). The battery will last maybe 5 min. so it requires constant power and the cord is running behind and under furniture, not easily moved. Also, my satellite internet doesn't make for the best online experience (although I've been happy with HughesNet Gen5). The way it is now is exactly what I need.

To keep my sanity with such old equipment, I keep everything looking new so as to not seem so outdated (the software doesn't seem too dated because it's what I'm used to). When I receive a donor PC, it gets a thorough going over (WD-40 to Dawn or Windex on a damp rag), vacuumed and cleaned inside and out until I'm satisfied (2nd pic). No cruddy keyboard and mouse here.

Sometimes I get lucky at Goodwill, like finding a wheel and pedals for $10.00 (3rd pic). smile

Attached Files DSCF3551.JPGDSCF3536.JPGDSCF2365.JPG
#4472556 - 05/01/19 12:53 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: F4UDash4]  
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mikew Offline
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I'm not sure if I've just got numb to it, or automatically do the steps Ssnake suggests after each update but Win10 doesn't seem as intrusive as it did 3 years ago.
To the previous advise, I just add that it's better to set your network connection to 'metered', which stops those spontaneous restarts for me plus it stops the thing blowing through my datacap in about 2 seconds if I tether it to my phone.

I use Linux for most of the day to day stuff though, and only fire up Win10 if I want to play any of my games on Steam.
This has its own annoyances like the default Gnome3 desktop which treats my 30" monitor as though it's 4" phone, a trait mindlessly copied from Win8. What the heck are these people thinking?
At least I can use the Cinnamon desktop environment instead for that WinXP-like usability.

#4472557 - 05/01/19 12:58 PM Re: Windows 7, the End is Near [Re: mikew]  
Joined: Apr 2001
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PanzerMeyer Offline
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Originally Posted by mikew

I use Linux for most of the day to day stuff though, and only fire up Win10 if I want to play any of my games on Steam.



If I wasn't a PC gamer I would have dumped Windows years ago and just switch to Linux 100%.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
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