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#4471886 - 04/25/19 09:16 PM WOFF G-SYNC Balancing  
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HarryH Offline
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Hi All,

Once in a while I feel compelled, as others I've seen here also do, just to say how bloody incredible WOFF UE is. The attention to detail that OBD put into this SIM is amazing. Just the other day, in my Halb DII career, I was flying the outer left edge of the Vee formation and noticed that, by watching the smoke stacks of the machines ahead of me, I could see when they were accelerating or decelerating, based on the thickness of the exhaust fumes, making it easier to keep in formation by adjusting my own throttle accordingly. Such a blast....

The other thing I've been focusing on since upgrading my graphics card, is performance balancing and optimizations. I am still finding that G-Sync with V-Sync at 1/2 refresh rate has made a huge leap forward in all around performance. Another thing that may not be new to everyone here, is that, somewhat counter-intuitively, clouds tend to disappear and flicker less at the highest setting (5) than at lower settings. Peoples' setups are all different of course, so this may not be the case for everyone. I have also discovered that TrackIR settings really do need to be balanced correctly to reduce micro stutters. I think I have finally arrived at the optimal game settings for my new hardware, which are very different than with my older graphics card. I now have WOFF running really sweetly (only very occasional cloud flicker, minimal cloud popping, very smooth head movements and virtually no micro stutters except sometimes during takeoff and at the usual one hour into the mission mark when additional flights load in), to the point where I'm almost tempted to stop tweaking things smile I'd be happy to share notes on settings and talk optimizations, etc. if anyone's interested. Just PM me.

I am soooo looking forward to this new patch / add-on that's coming!

Cheers all, Happy Flying.

H

UPDATE: G-SYNC MONITOR OWNERS - SEE LATER POSTS FOR MORE INFO

Last edited by HarryH; 04/28/19 01:03 AM. Reason: Title change

..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4471930 - 04/26/19 07:16 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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I just recently thinked I would ask you about progress of your latest tweaking experience and settings. So, if you can share your video card and TrackIR settings, I would be very appreciated.
Thx.

#4471964 - 04/26/19 03:09 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: JJJ65]  
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HarryH Offline
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Hi JJJ, I'd be happy to share. Most important things first: things really got better for me once I went the route of G-SYNC - so you need to have an Nvidia card, ideally 8GB or more, and a G-SYNC monitor. Do you have those things?


..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4471992 - 04/26/19 06:00 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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It seems I have finished yet before start :-(. I use NVIDIA GTX1060 6GB card, however without G-SYNC monitor. Thx for your help anyway.

#4472004 - 04/26/19 07:41 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: JJJ65]  
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HarryH Offline
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No worries JJJ. Yeah, the G-SYNC monitor was the critical piece, for me at least. I'd be happy to share my latest TrackIR settings if that's of any help, but you'd probably need to adjust the speed and smooth settings to match your setup. Just let me know and I can PM you a d/load link


..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4472075 - 04/27/19 06:26 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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JJJ65  Offline
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Yes,pls.
BTW, I still use your old TrackIR setup for WOFF.

#4472129 - 04/27/19 09:02 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH Offline
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Here's my latest TrackIR profile. 0.8 speed, 14 smooth. This is limited to make rear view more realistic but if you need to change the speed then you may need to tweak the x axis as well, because the rear view may become even more limited!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/icvdu0yozp7tnda/Leanback%20limitedHH.xml?dl=0

H


..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4472146 - 04/28/19 12:36 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH Offline
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OK, for any G-SYNC monitor owners who are interested, I am posting my full Nvidia Inspector settings along with a Dropbox link for the profile file that I use in concert with the above TrackIR profile. At this point I'm done tweaking. WOFF is now simply amazing for me. Almost no stutters etc., as per my OP. With my latest tweaks I have also been able to virtually eliminate the flickering cloud edges (phew!). Flying in clouds is now an absolute joy except for the occasional popping which I can't find a complete cure for.


In addition I'm posting my in-game settings and my installed mods.

* I run the BT mod via JJJ's fantastic Mission Editor. For missions with < 50 planes I use max quality, and I drop down by one quality stage for each additional ~30 planes beyond that. I really hope this helps some G-SYNC owners get the best ever WOFF experience they've ever had., but of course, every system is different and your mileage may vary.

Cheers all, and anyone that tries it, let me know how it goes!

H

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j06e68svkv380dn/Combat%20Flight%20Simulator%203.nip?dl=0

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4472147 - 04/28/19 12:39 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH Offline
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[Linked Image]


..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4472153 - 04/28/19 06:08 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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Thank you very much, HarryH. I will try it and let you know.

#4472218 - 04/29/19 04:49 AM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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Harry,
I noticed from the screenshot of your JSGME mods that you only have part of the cloud mod enabled. Although the clouds folder contains my new clouds, to get them to display in the game, you need to enable both the cloud folder and ONE of the Fog option folders. Without one of the fog option folders, you will only see the default WOFF clouds.

#4472332 - 04/29/19 09:28 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH Offline
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Doh! Thanks for spotting that. I think I disabled both clouds and fog during my process of elimination / testing and forgot to re-enable one of them. I'll let you know if it makes a difference to performance. I hope not!

Cheers

H


..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4472337 - 04/29/19 10:11 PM Re: WOFF Performance / Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH Offline
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OK, no appreciable difference in performance but possibly an increase in perceived cloud popping...I'll PM you if that's ok?

Meantime, having worked with KSnowbear on the stutter issues, I've reached the conclusion (as he already had) that stutters will probably never be totally eliminated. They are real and they are there. BUT I remain convinced the G-SYNC / V-SYNC half refresh rate setting makes a HUGE difference to their negative impact on the game. Thanks to running his test QC I've also discovered that disabling terrain bump mapping probably gives the most performance return for the least visual impact.

We can all spend way to much on hardware (and way too much time tweaking!), but the single best purchase I've made has definitely been this G-SYNC monitor smile

Cheers all. Happy Flying.


..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4472356 - 04/30/19 12:28 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Panama Red Offline
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HarryH:
If you ever notice, the biggest "stutter" come when the game loads new terrain or new squadrons.

A good check is to increase your terrain items and fly low over the terrain. The more the terrain items, the more the "stutters".

Flying low over any of the two southern fronts gives me more "stutters" then flying low over the two northern fronts because the two southern fronts have more trees that they have to account for than the two northern fronts.

As a result, until AnKor moves us up to DX11, I think we will continue to have some "stutters" when ever the game loads enough items to micro-pause the game.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4472357 - 04/30/19 01:00 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Fullofit Online content
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I’m also wondering if the sound plays into this stutter phenomenon. I notice stutters when there is a Flak explosion for example. It could be because of the texture being loaded, but what if it is also the sound sample that causes it, as it loads. Is there any way to check? Or better yet is there .ini setting that would allow to increase the sound cache, so that all sounds could be preloaded?


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4472359 - 04/30/19 01:16 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Panama Red Offline
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Most modern PC's do not have an APU (Audio Processing Unit) like years ago.

As a result, all sounds you hear in the game must be processed by your CPU which definitely impacts a game like CFS3 (WOFF) that is very, very CPU intensive and has to now allocate some of it's CPU cycles to process the sounds versus letting the APU do that work.

This is why I always still buy a sound card (that has a APU, since not all sound cards have an APU), so the sounds are processed by the APU and not the CPU and thus frees up the CPU for all the items it needs to process and minimize the extraneous "stutters" in the game.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4472362 - 04/30/19 01:33 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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Fullofit Online content
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That’s what I thought and purchased a dedicated SoudBlaster card, but it made no difference (apart from much better sound and no crackling). So, assuming that sound samples in some way contribute to the stutters it could be reasoned that it is not the processing (as it now runs through the dedicated card) but some other factor, such as perhaps loading of the samples, as opposed to them being pre-cached. Could that be possible?


"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4472372 - 04/30/19 02:49 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH Offline
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Thanks for contributing, PR & Fullofit. Good to have your thoughts.

First off, audio: I hope you will forgive me if I sound a little elitist here, but audio is my "thing". Not only that, I worked for Creative Labs for 11 years, and my team worked directly with games developers to make sure their games took full advantage of our Soundblaster hardware, which from the SB Live through to the X-Fi, all featured dedicated audio chips designed and developed fully in-house (I don't recall who manufactured them, but that's not really important). In fact, there's more chance that older games take advantage of audio hardware than newer games. Back in the beginning of 3D games, developers wanted every shred of advantage they could get and DirectSound 3D had a hardware abstraction layer (an "audio shader" if you will), so that cards like the Soundblaster could indeed offload certain audio processing tasks from the CPU. I could go a lot deeper on all that, but for the sake of this thread I'll just say that nowadays there's ample CPU and GPU resources to allow even the most complex of sound scenes to be rendered without dedicated audio hardware, and without impacting frame rates. I believe Microsoft abandoned the audio hardware path some years ago, so you can't do any audio acceleration on later versions of DirectX anyhow. As for CFS3's audio engine, I've always been really impressed with the attention to detail that OBD have put into their sounds and I think the game audio engine is delivering them just fine. I don't even know if it ever used the D3D hardware layer. I don't recall my guys working with the MS flight sim team back then, but that doesn't mean it didn't. We were focused mostly on FPS titles.

So, my guess is that the flak sprites are the culprit in your case, Fullofit. KS also showed me an example of a major stutter happening right at the same time cockpit damage effects occurred. Again, I suspect the graphics engine.

PR - Yes I know about the stutters when things are loading. As things stand, provided I don't set the terrain to max detail I get virtually no stutters flying low on any map. Things do get laggy when a whole bunch of AI missions are starting up together, later on in missions, but as you know, it's temporary. You just have to ride it out and hope you're not engaged with the enemy at the time smile

......After all of that.... do either of you have a G-SYNC monitor and if so, have you tried V-SYNC set to half refresh rate with game running at 144Hz? I really would like to know if anyone gets the boost that I did and no one seems to be trying it....

H


..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4472376 - 04/30/19 03:02 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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HarryH Offline
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BTW, PR, your machine spec is rocking! You're definitely not getting any performance assist from your APU other than probably nicer audio quality, I promise smile

But you do have G-SYNC - you might get a nice surprise (or not) if you try the V-SYNC half refresh rate thing. It was you that put me onto G-SYNC plus V-SYNC in the first place! smile


..."I took the Stutter Challenge....AND WON!!!"

...”My PC’s been banned... for taking PEDs!!!”

...”The stutters only happen on Wednesdays when it’s cloudy. The rest of the time we’ll be just fine!!!”
#4472380 - 04/30/19 03:14 AM Re: WOFF G-SYNC Balancing [Re: HarryH]  
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BuckeyeBob Offline
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Originally Posted by HarryH
OK, no appreciable difference in performance but possibly an increase in perceived cloud popping...


Yeah, adding additional clouds doesn't seem to have any effect on frame rates or stuttering, but does tend to increase the cloud popping. The cloud popping is a direct result of adding more cloud textures to individual cloud types, probably due to the engine painting two cloud textures in the same physical space. The effect is therefore most pronounced for heavy cloud cover and for some of the heavier fair weather cumulus cloud types.

I could probably design a version of the mod with less popping, but that would require going through all of the heavy and cumulus cloud formations and deleting individual cloud textures one at a time, which would take a very long time to do. It would also probably make cloudy and rainy days much less cloudy.

Sorry I can't help you with the G-sync monitor. Maybe next Christmas. wink

Last edited by BuckeyeBob; 04/30/19 04:24 AM. Reason: changed "models" to "textures"
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