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#4464830 - 03/10/19 02:45 PM Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down  
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Haggart Offline
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/10/africa/ethiopia-airline-crash-nairobi-intl/index.html

According to the Ethio­pian Airlines chief executive, Tewolde Gebremariam, the flight took off at 8:38 a.m. and lost contact six minutes later, crashing near the city of Bishoftu less than 40 miles to the southeast of Addis Ababa.
All 157 people on board the Ethiopian Airlines flight that crashed soon after taking off from Addis Ababa have been killed.

“The pilot mentioned he had difficulty and he wanted to return and he was given clearance,” he said.

“It is a brand new airplance, it had no technical remarks and was flown by a senior pilot,” he added.

The airline said the plane was a Boeing 737 Max 8, the same model aircraft involved in the Indonesian Lion Air crash in October in which the plane plunged into the sea shortly after take off and killing 189.

Boeing Issues Safety Warning After Fatal 737 Max Nosedive ..... Nov 7, 2018
https://www.wired.com/story/boeing-safety-warning-737-max-nosedive/



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#4464838 - 03/10/19 04:09 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Tragic. The airframe was only 4 months old.
First images show a crater and nothing much more than tiny bits scattered all around :-/

Slug


"Major Burns isn't saying much of anything, Sir. I think he's formulating the answer..." - Radar - M*A*S*H
#4464841 - 03/10/19 04:23 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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FlightRadar24 says: "vertical speed was unstable after take off."

[Linked Image]

More info: http://avherald.com/h?article=4c534c4a&opt=0



Second MAX to go down since October. This Ethiopian Captain was senior and well experienced. Just gonna be blunt. Boeing has some serious questions to answer for these families. I smell a potential MAX grounding pending further review just like the B787 experienced in 2013.



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#4464955 - 03/11/19 02:43 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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None of the news outlets are reporting that this plane was only four months old. Is this true?

#4464958 - 03/11/19 03:42 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Several countries have grounded the a/c.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#4464960 - 03/11/19 03:47 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-...eristics-augmentation-system-mcas-jt610/

from a pilots forum ...... "IF this is the *MCAS fault again*, then the consequences will be enormous, probably a grounding of the MAX fleet."



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#4465196 - 03/12/19 05:48 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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I made a thread a few months back about the very low number of hours co-pilots had in some airlines. The one in this accident was one of those 200 hour pilots I mentioned. May have no bearing on what happened.


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#4465225 - 03/12/19 07:50 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Considering that Boeing has issued a statement that they will be patching some critical systems can point to it being partly software-related.
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-releases-statements?item=130402

The US is about the only country not banning MAX 8 from their airspaces or grounding their fleets right now.

#4465243 - 03/12/19 08:53 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Originally Posted by oldgrognard
I made a thread a few months back about the very low number of hours co-pilots had in some airlines. The one in this accident was one of those 200 hour pilots I mentioned. May have no bearing on what happened.

Is that total hours or hours on type? There was someone else asking about that and thought the hours were on the low side for a co-pilot.


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#4465277 - 03/13/19 01:19 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Nov 2018 ...... two U.S. pilots flying a domestic flight 737 max 8 reported a sudden attempt of the airplane to go nose down and they fought to keep this commercial flight from doing so. But this is not the only documented incident like this in U.S. flight records of this model aircraft.

"Pilots in the U.S. complained at least 5 times in recent months about problems controlling their Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets during critical moments of flight, federal records show, adding to questions raised by deadly crashes involving that model of jetliner in Ethiopia and Indonesia. Some of the incidents appear to involve the same anti-stall system that has come up as a potential cause of October's Indonesia crash, according to a review of a Federal Aviation Administration incident database that lets pilots self-report trouble."

They had a software fix for the issue back in January but because of the government shutdown the implementation of this fix has been delayed.


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4465288 - 03/13/19 02:53 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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If they negligently didn't press all customers to install the fix, and knew of this, Boeing should have hell to pay. A hundred and fifty people did not have to die. Three million a family will not be enough. This should cost them billions and some executives should see prison time for manslaughter charges.

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 03/13/19 02:54 AM.
#4465292 - 03/13/19 03:43 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Originally Posted by Haggart
Nov 2018 ...... two U.S. pilots flying a domestic flight 737 max 8 reported a sudden attempt of the airplane to go nose down and they fought to keep this commercial flight from doing so. But this is not the only documented incident like this in U.S. flight records of this model aircraft.

"Pilots in the U.S. complained at least 5 times in recent months about problems controlling their Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets during critical moments of flight, federal records show, adding to questions raised by deadly crashes involving that model of jetliner in Ethiopia and Indonesia. Some of the incidents appear to involve the same anti-stall system that has come up as a potential cause of October's Indonesia crash, according to a review of a Federal Aviation Administration incident database that lets pilots self-report trouble."

They had a software fix for the issue back in January but because of the government shutdown the implementation of this fix has been delayed.


Do you have a link with this statement? First I've heard of MAX issues in the U.S. so I'm curious. Southwest and American are the predominent U.S. airlines currently operating the MAX.



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#4465294 - 03/13/19 05:06 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Chaz]  
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Originally Posted by Chaz
Originally Posted by Haggart
Nov 2018 ...... two U.S. pilots flying a domestic flight 737 max 8 reported a sudden attempt of the airplane to go nose down and they fought to keep this commercial flight from doing so. But this is not the only documented incident like this in U.S. flight records of this model aircraft.

"Pilots in the U.S. complained at least 5 times in recent months about problems controlling their Boeing 737 MAX 8 jets during critical moments of flight, federal records show, adding to questions raised by deadly crashes involving that model of jetliner in Ethiopia and Indonesia. Some of the incidents appear to involve the same anti-stall system that has come up as a potential cause of October's Indonesia crash, according to a review of a Federal Aviation Administration incident database that lets pilots self-report trouble."

They had a software fix for the issue back in January but because of the government shutdown the implementation of this fix has been delayed.


Do you have a link with this statement? First I've heard of MAX issues in the U.S. so I'm curious. Southwest and American are the predominent U.S. airlines currently operating the MAX.


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/12/pilots-boeing-737-1266090

Boeing plans to make major changes to the flight control systems on the 737 MAX aircraft — just months after delaying a similar software fix due to failed negotiations with the FAA, a report says.
Sources briefed on the talks told The Wall Street Journal that federal regulators determined that the delay was acceptable because its experts believed there was no imminent safety threat, as did Boeing’s. According to the WSJ, US officials have also blamed part of the delay on this year’s government shutdown — saying it halted work for at least five weeks.

https://nypost.com/2019/03/12/boeing-to-update-737-maxs-after-delaying-changes-for-months/


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4465296 - 03/13/19 05:27 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman
None of the news outlets are reporting that this plane was only four months old. Is this true?


Apparently. Multiple media sources.
Delivered to the airline Nov 15 ‘18 (mentioned right below the map). I was a bit off, but not by much https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-47513508

Slug


"Major Burns isn't saying much of anything, Sir. I think he's formulating the answer..." - Radar - M*A*S*H
#4465297 - 03/13/19 05:38 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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there are only about 58 737 Max 8's in the entire U.S. ..... owned by both American Airlines and SW Airlines. Canada also has some ..... WestJet Airlines, Air Canada

Delta Airlines does not fly any Max 8's


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4465328 - 03/13/19 01:08 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Originally Posted by Haggart

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/12/pilots-boeing-737-1266090

Boeing plans to make major changes to the flight control systems on the 737 MAX aircraft — just months after delaying a similar software fix due to failed negotiations with the FAA, a report says.
Sources briefed on the talks told The Wall Street Journal that federal regulators determined that the delay was acceptable because its experts believed there was no imminent safety threat, as did Boeing’s. According to the WSJ, US officials have also blamed part of the delay on this year’s government shutdown — saying it halted work for at least five weeks.

https://nypost.com/2019/03/12/boeing-to-update-737-maxs-after-delaying-changes-for-months/


Maybe i missunderstand this article, but it's totaly non sense to me. Boeing is not a private company ? How the shutdown has something to do with that delay ? About the FAA, I find it strange, but not unbelievable. But if it is true, I hope the NTSB reports will change some minds.

#4465331 - 03/13/19 01:15 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Roudou]  
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Originally Posted by Roudou
How the shutdown has something to do with that delay ? .



FAA is a Federal government agency and much of its staff was furloughed during the shutdown.


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#4465334 - 03/13/19 01:18 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Roudou]  
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Originally Posted by Roudou
Originally Posted by Haggart

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/12/pilots-boeing-737-1266090

Boeing plans to make major changes to the flight control systems on the 737 MAX aircraft — just months after delaying a similar software fix due to failed negotiations with the FAA, a report says.
Sources briefed on the talks told The Wall Street Journal that federal regulators determined that the delay was acceptable because its experts believed there was no imminent safety threat, as did Boeing’s. According to the WSJ, US officials have also blamed part of the delay on this year’s government shutdown — saying it halted work for at least five weeks.

https://nypost.com/2019/03/12/boeing-to-update-737-maxs-after-delaying-changes-for-months/


Maybe i missunderstand this article, but it's totaly non sense to me. Boeing is not a private company ? How the shutdown has something to do with that delay ? About the FAA, I find it strange, but not unbelievable. But if it is true, I hope the NTSB reports will change some minds.


First and foremost it needs to be understood that Boeing for many years has had a very close relationship with the FAA. Perhaps a bit - too close.


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4465341 - 03/13/19 01:48 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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I missunderstood the article.

I've re read it. Yeah, it seems more like the case of Airbus pitot heat malfounction. "No need to fix it, there is no crash yet." Boeing and FAA found the perfect guilty in the shutdown, in my opinion.

#4465351 - 03/13/19 02:09 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Alicatt]  
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Originally Posted by Alicatt
Originally Posted by oldgrognard
I made a thread a few months back about the very low number of hours co-pilots had in some airlines. The one in this accident was one of those 200 hour pilots I mentioned. May have no bearing on what happened.

Is that total hours or hours on type? There was someone else asking about that and thought the hours were on the low side for a co-pilot.


That`s total hours.
I think it is insane to let a pilot with so few flighthours sit in the right seat of such an advanced aircraft.

Last edited by Wigean; 03/13/19 02:09 PM.
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