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#4467944 - 03/28/19 05:04 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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not related to mcas, total non-event. sounds like they shut down the engine to reduce risk of wear or damage while operating outside of safe parameters. happens fairly frequently to jets of any make. could be caused by anything but probably a small maintenance issue that requires adjustment.

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#4468020 - 03/29/19 07:27 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
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My test is always, would I book my kids on a flight with airline X or airplane Y

Max 8: no

Max 8 after Boeing does software kludge: no

Max 8A after Boeing re-engineers it: after a year or so, maybe


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#4468041 - 03/29/19 02:24 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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#4468760 - 04/03/19 08:05 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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So contray to all you armchair pilots out here, a source inside the investigation revelaed that the pilot DID cut off the mcas as per emergency instruction, but the mcas was is not completely shut by doing this, and it reingaged on its own when they manage to get 2000 ft and pulled the plane nose down again.......
boing was asked to comment on this but its silent.....this tells a lot.

Last edited by Blade_RJ; 04/03/19 08:06 PM.
#4468764 - 04/03/19 08:18 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
So contray to all you armchair pilots out here, a source inside the investigation revelaed that the pilot DID cut off the mcas as per emergency instruction, but the mcas was is not completely shut by doing this, and it reingaged on its own when they manage to get 2000 ft and pulled the plane nose down again.......
boing was asked to comment on this but its silent.....this tells a lot.


Without a link to a legitimate source you're just "armchair piloting" yourself.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4468766 - 04/03/19 08:29 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Read something similar from Reuters but they said that the pilots re-engaged the MCAS system as they could not get enough trim authority from manually trimming the aircraft. they were quoting an undisclosed source that had been briefed on the investigation.

So no confirmation only rumour.


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Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4468767 - 04/03/19 08:44 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
So contray to all you armchair pilots out here, a source inside the investigation revelaed that the pilot DID cut off the mcas as per emergency instruction, but the mcas was is not completely shut by doing this, and it reingaged on its own when they manage to get 2000 ft and pulled the plane nose down again.......
boing was asked to comment on this but its silent.....this tells a lot.


Without a link to a legitimate source you're just "armchair piloting" yourself.


Um, it's all over the morning news. Any major outlet you wish.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...n-airlines-pilots-lion-crash/3350372002/

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...crash-boeing-software-engaged-repeatedly

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/03/africa/ethiopian-airlines-emergency-procedures-intl/index.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing...lowed-emergency-procedures-before-crash/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ethiop...ps-to-disable-737-max-system-11554263276



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#4468768 - 04/03/19 09:12 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: F4UDash4]  
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Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
So contray to all you armchair pilots out here, a source inside the investigation revelaed that the pilot DID cut off the mcas as per emergency instruction, but the mcas was is not completely shut by doing this, and it reingaged on its own when they manage to get 2000 ft and pulled the plane nose down again.......
boing was asked to comment on this but its silent.....this tells a lot.


Without a link to a legitimate source you're just "armchair piloting" yourself.


i'm not the one joking over how it was a pilot mistake over a simple procedure they should know about. From day one i told this was the system getting out of pilot control....it seems it was very much the case.
just like the frozen pitot thinking the airplane was flying inverted, nothing the pilot can do, when all systems are giving contradicting information and the pc assumes control while they are doing a checklist.

#4468774 - 04/03/19 10:31 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: WhoCares]  
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Originally Posted by WhoCares
Originally Posted by oldgrognard
Over-reliance on automation is not just restricted to the actual flying of the airplane. While I can see how this happened, it demonstrates how we can get trapped operating in a bubble trusting the system.

https://www.kcci.com/article/airplane-mistakenly-lands-in-scotland-instead-of-germany/26931138

What puzzles me about this one, okay, the carrier filed a flight to Edinburgh instead of Duesseldorf. Pilots + cabin crew arrive at the airport, get their plane and flight plan assigned, and everything points to a flight to Edinburgh. But why does the boarding still treat it as a flight to Duesseldorf? I mean, the passengers would not have boarded the plane if the displays and announcements had told them it's a flight to Edinburgh, no?!?!

With respect to the MAX crashes I wonder when the MCAS really interferes and how that is related to stall warnings etc. Okay, MCAS only "sees" one AoA sensor and when that shows risk of a stall, MCAS reacts. But what about other stall warning systems that take both AoA sensors into account, and in the crash scenario see significantly different AoA readings? What kind of indications/warnings/alarms are triggered in such a case?
Seems the crashed planes had no AoA readout error indicators or AoA dials (said in an article above that those were optional, but now will become standard for the MAX).


Actually. the fact that this system is for stall prevention is a common misconception. MCAS has nothing to do with stall prevention in the traditional sense. It is designed to provide a linear increase in stick force with higher angles of attack, as the certification requirements of commercial airliners includes an increase in stick force as AoA increases. The larger nacelles of the MAX provide lift at increased angles of attack and that lift, being forward of the CG, contributes to a decrease in stick force required to further increase AoA, rather than an increasing force as per the certification requirements.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4468795 - 04/04/19 12:32 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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And on the news tonight it was reported that the pilots reactivated MCAS, it did not reactivate itself.


SALUTE TO ALL!
#4468799 - 04/04/19 12:51 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: vonBaur]  
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Originally Posted by vonBaur
And on the news tonight it was reported that the pilots reactivated MCAS, it did not reactivate itself.


It cannot in itself be activated or deactivated. Wth the stabilizer trim cutout switches to cutoff, all electric trim is disabled, and that includes MCAS. With the switches in the normal position, MCAS is always active - during its engagement criteria, of course.


In all my years I've never seen the like. It has to be more than a hundred sea miles and he brings us up on his tail. That's seamanship, Mr. Pullings. My God, that's seamanship!
#4468808 - 04/04/19 02:43 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Chaz]  
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Originally Posted by Chaz
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
So contray to all you armchair pilots out here, a source inside the investigation revelaed that the pilot DID cut off the mcas as per emergency instruction, but the mcas was is not completely shut by doing this, and it reingaged on its own when they manage to get 2000 ft and pulled the plane nose down again.......
boing was asked to comment on this but its silent.....this tells a lot.


Without a link to a legitimate source you're just "armchair piloting" yourself.


Um, it's all over the morning news. Any major outlet you wish.


https://www.theguardian.com/busines...crash-boeing-software-engaged-repeatedly


Did you even read your sources?

"It was not immediately clear whether the crew had chosen to redeploy the system, which pushes the nose of the Boeing 737 Max downwards, but one person with knowledge of the situation said investigators were studying the possibility that the software had kicked in again without human intervention."

Nothing definitive there AT ALL. Just more speculation.


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4468809 - 04/04/19 02:45 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Blade_RJ]  
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Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
Originally Posted by F4UDash4
Originally Posted by Blade_RJ
So contray to all you armchair pilots out here, a source inside the investigation revelaed that the pilot DID cut off the mcas as per emergency instruction, but the mcas was is not completely shut by doing this, and it reingaged on its own when they manage to get 2000 ft and pulled the plane nose down again.......
boing was asked to comment on this but its silent.....this tells a lot.


Without a link to a legitimate source you're just "armchair piloting" yourself.


i'm not the one joking......



And who was joking about something?


“Government has three primary functions. It should provide for military defense of the nation. It should enforce contracts between individuals. It should protect citizens from crimes against themselves or their property. When government-- in pursuit of good intentions tries to rearrange the economy, legislate morality, or help special interests, the cost comes in inefficiency, lack of motivation, and loss of freedom. Government should be a referee, not an active player.” - Milton Friedman
#4468919 - 04/04/19 08:06 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Preliminary report is now out:

http://www.ecaa.gov.et/documents/20...1EQS914Wm-ECeoSDCJVmaSKHUCOxUHDZHikoIF8s

Not read it yet, just about to start.


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4468938 - 04/04/19 10:37 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Boeing (CEO) has publicly accepted blame and apologizes for the 2 MAX accidents and loss of life.

Video with taped statement by the CEO: https://www.yahoo.com/news/preliminary-report-says-pilots-ethiopian-093005543.html

The chairman of Boeing acknowledged Thursday for the first time that a new maneuvering system was responsible for two plane crashes that killed almost 350 people, and he apologized to the families and friends of the victims.

"We at Boeing are sorry for the lives lost in the recent 737 accidents and are relentlessly focused on safety to ensure tragedies like this never happen again," CEO Dennis Muilenburg said in a videotaped statement posted on Twitter.




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#4468939 - 04/04/19 10:39 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Scary, as expected.

#4468944 - 04/04/19 11:24 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Speculation and pointing fingers is over. Now it's time for accountability and Boeing to fix their mistake. Sad that most of the world did the right thing way before the US FAA woke up. Very frustrating.

#4468961 - 04/05/19 12:45 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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And yet, surprisingly, Boeing stock continues to go up.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4468962 - 04/05/19 12:48 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: oldgrognard]  
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Originally Posted by oldgrognard
And yet, surprisingly, Boeing stock continues to go up.

It does seem a bit strange to me too but I never was much good with playing the markets.


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#4468992 - 04/05/19 06:12 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
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Boeing Co. Chief Executive Dennis Muilenburg Apologizes for Loss of Life & Promises a Software Fix Soon
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...eks-away-2019-04-04?mod=mw_theo_homepage


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