Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
#4465359 - 03/13/19 03:54 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,500
VF9_Longbow Offline
Hotshot
VF9_Longbow  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,500
Tokyo, Japan
as i said before in the thread about the previous crash, it still sounds like the pilots failed to just put their hand on the trim wheel, and they didn't hit the trim cutout switch

but that was that time - this is now. boeing has a lot of hell to pay for not addressing what was even then, clearly a badly designed system. they had months to prepare an update to make the aircraft flyable for pilots of lesser ability and those without the additional training that obviously everyone on a MAX should have taken

but ultimately it's hard for me to place all the blame on boeing when an incident like this happens so soon after the first crash. yes, the design is #%&*$#, but every pilot in a MAX should have been aware of this even just from hearing the news, and they should have known exactly what to do when things started looking like a runaway trim scenario. bad bad flying.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#4465363 - 03/13/19 04:30 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 15,503
Haggart Offline
I Fought Diablo
Haggart  Offline
I Fought Diablo
Veteran

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 15,503
The Lone Star State
Federal records show that U.S. pilots filed complaints about the Max8 ......8 months before the Ethiopian crash

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u-s-pilots-complained-about-boeing-737-max-8-months-n982651

"I am left to wonder: what else don't I know?" one pilot wrote in a complaint about the Boeing 737 Max 8.


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4465369 - 03/13/19 04:43 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,524
Mr_Blastman Online content
Senior Member
Mr_Blastman  Online Content
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,524
Atlanta, GA
I think the FAA is making a mistake by not grounding this plane.

#4465373 - 03/13/19 05:00 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,500
VF9_Longbow Offline
Hotshot
VF9_Longbow  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,500
Tokyo, Japan
it should be grounded everywhere until training is completed and software upgrades are installed and verified installed on every single aircraft produced and in production

#4465381 - 03/13/19 05:41 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,940
oldgrognard Offline
Administrator
oldgrognard  Offline
Administrator
Veteran

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,940
USA
What was the report about smoke and fire in the air ?


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4465403 - 03/13/19 06:41 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: oldgrognard]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,904
Alicatt Offline
Senior Member
Alicatt  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,904
Limburg
Originally Posted by oldgrognard
What was the report about smoke and fire in the air ?

It was reported by a couple of farmers that saw the aircraft.

Quote
Several witnesses who worked in the farmland below the plane's flight path told the Reuters news agency they heard loud rattling noises coming from the aircraft and saw billows of smoke and debris in its wake as it made a low turn over the fields.
"When it was hovering, fire was following its tail, then it tried to lift its nose," said one witness, Gadisa Benti. "When it passed over our house, the nose pointed down and the tail raised up. It went straight to the ground with its nose, it then exploded."


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-47521744


Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4465405 - 03/13/19 07:03 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 138
Wigean Offline
Member
Wigean  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 138
Oslo
President Trump has ordered to ground Boeing 737 MAX 8.

Last edited by Wigean; 03/13/19 07:05 PM.
#4465413 - 03/13/19 08:13 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 889
Chaz Offline
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Chaz  Offline
For Whom the Bell Tolls
Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 889
Originally Posted by Wigean
President Trump has ordered to ground Boeing 737 MAX 8.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna982811

It's the right thing to do. Too many lives have been lost in such a short span. The FAA has waited too long before reacting and fixing a problem.


My YouTube channel

My Gaming Rig
Obutto | Nvidia Surround ASUS VE278Q | Gigabyte G1 Gaming GTX 980 | ASUS Maximus VII Hero | i7 4790k | 16GB Corsair DDR3 | SSDs: 120GB HyperX, 512GB Crucial, 500GB Samsung 850 EVO | Win10 Pro x64 | Corsair 1000W | Bose Companion 3 | Razer DeathAdder 3.5G | Track IR 4 Pro | TM Warthog + MFDs, CH Pro Pedals | TM T500RS, Leather 28 GT + F1 wheels
#4465416 - 03/13/19 08:45 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,558
EAF331 MadDog Offline
XBL: LanceHawkins
EAF331 MadDog  Offline
XBL: LanceHawkins
Hotshot

Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 6,558
Oslo, Norway
Boeing has also asked all airlines to ground their 737 Max 8s now.

#4465418 - 03/13/19 09:02 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 727
BlueHeron Offline
Member
BlueHeron  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 727
Ottawa, Canada
Wow, they must have found something really significant in the investigation. The reactions yesterday by Canada, US and Boeing were nothing like what we're seeing today.

#4465422 - 03/13/19 09:58 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,940
oldgrognard Offline
Administrator
oldgrognard  Offline
Administrator
Veteran

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 19,940
USA
But the Boeing BA stock closed up today.


Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

Someday your life will flash in front of your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.
#4465423 - 03/13/19 10:05 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,524
Mr_Blastman Online content
Senior Member
Mr_Blastman  Online Content
Senior Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,524
Atlanta, GA
Not buying any shares... yet.

#4465471 - 03/14/19 04:17 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,978
Sluggish Controls Offline
Member
Sluggish Controls  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,978
Hong Kong
About time, all 737 MAX 8 grounded.
Similarities between the 2 recent crashes are now emerging in the investigation.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47562727

Slug

Last edited by Sluggish Controls; 03/14/19 04:44 AM.

"Major Burns isn't saying much of anything, Sir. I think he's formulating the answer..." - Radar - M*A*S*H
#4465598 - 03/14/19 10:33 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: VF9_Longbow]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,485
Blade_RJ Offline
Simhq Weather man, dropping rain in your parade
Blade_RJ  Offline
Simhq Weather man, dropping rain in your parade
Hotshot

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,485
brasil
Originally Posted by VF9_Longbow
as i said before in the thread about the previous crash, it still sounds like the pilots failed to just put their hand on the trim wheel, and they didn't hit the trim cutout switch

but that was that time - this is now. boeing has a lot of hell to pay for not addressing what was even then, clearly a badly designed system. they had months to prepare an update to make the aircraft flyable for pilots of lesser ability and those without the additional training that obviously everyone on a MAX should have taken

but ultimately it's hard for me to place all the blame on boeing when an incident like this happens so soon after the first crash. yes, the design is #%&*$#, but every pilot in a MAX should have been aware of this even just from hearing the news, and they should have known exactly what to do when things started looking like a runaway trim scenario. bad bad flying.


sure its always the pilot fault ... did you already forget that case when the pilot was locked out of manual because the automated system though he was making a mistake and continued to pitch the plane ?

#4465661 - 03/15/19 12:54 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Blade_RJ]  
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,500
VF9_Longbow Offline
Hotshot
VF9_Longbow  Offline
Hotshot

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,500
Tokyo, Japan
Originally Posted by Blade_RJ


sure its always the pilot fault ... did you already forget that case when the pilot was locked out of manual because the automated system though he was making a mistake and continued to pitch the plane ?


it doesn't lock the pilot out of anything.

there's a physical link from the trim wheel to the moving control surfaces.

all you need to do is hold the wheel. it will stop moving. as far as i know this has always been boeing's policy.

besides that, right by the trim wheel are two cutout switches that can turn the thing off completely.

there are also a number of breakers on the rear overhead panel or bulkhead that can accomplish the same thing and more if the situation allows enough time to pull them.

boeing diverged from its philosophy of allowing the pilot to manually override anything with physical force on the control column with this series of aircraft and it has clearly not been implemented well.

but ultimately i still think that this crew's lack of familiarity with flying in general (200 hour copilot?) was probably a major contributor to this crash. not absolving boeing at all - their system sucks. but every 737 pilot in the world should have known to hit the trim cutout switches after the first crash, and grabbing the wildly spinning, clacking trim wheel ought to be an instinct for any pilot with ears. they were probably literally twiddling their thumbs trying to get the trim to work on their yokes like in the first crash. 200 hours is not enough to fly a commercial jet. it's more of a burden to whoever's in the left seat than anything.

#4465781 - 03/16/19 08:11 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,904
Alicatt Offline
Senior Member
Alicatt  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,904
Limburg
There is a video of the operation of the trim system in this video:



Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
#4465787 - 03/16/19 10:50 AM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Alicatt]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,806
Meatsheild Offline
Arma3 guy!
Meatsheild  Offline
Arma3 guy!
Senior Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,806
Peoples Republic of Yorkshire
i was just about to post that, it looked like it required a fair bit of force to stop it spinning and you have to actually hold it or it just keeps spinning... what if you have other buttons to press? yea there might be 2 people up front but considering the pilot will be busy looking out the windows with both hands on the controls and the co pilot will prolly be troubleshooting as well ... to me it just seems like an un needed stupid system


SimHQ Arma3 sessions, weekly semi-serious co-op action for all ages and skills! check the forum sticky for more info!

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3732626/SimHQ_Arma3_Sessions,_who,_wha#Post3732626

All spelling errors are included free of charge and courtesy of a broken spell checker!
#4465806 - 03/16/19 01:44 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,269
Nixer Offline
Scaliwag and Survivor
Nixer  Offline
Scaliwag and Survivor
Veteran

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,269
Living with the Trees
Great info from real pilots HERE

Boeing’s design deficiency [JF note: having the MCAS rely on a single data source, the “angle of attack” indicator, without backup or comparative sensors] sets up the need for pilot training on how to overcome it.

-Boeing’s failure to highlight the change resulted in no specific MCAS pilot training.

Those two big mistakes, it now appears, likely caused two tragic major catastrophes. Shame on Boeing if the final analysis bears these points out.

The corrective action is simple and within the capabilities of any competent airline captain to execute. Certainly easier than dealing with an engine fire or loss of multiple hydraulic systems.

There is a broad spectrum of abilities in any group of pilots, and without an emphasis training, some of them will be unable to overcome the design deficiency, even if the emergency procedure is simple to carry out. All the lights and buzzers going off will freeze the less capable pilot who has not been trained to drill down to what is going on, and to flip the switch. Training has to be to the lowest level of ability, if you’re operating an airline with any significant number of pilots. They all can't be Sully Sullenbergers.


"I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging of the future but by the past."
Patrick Henry 1775

I personally believe in the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and that deficit spending is sustainable forever. We really do need more Admirals in the Navy than ships and that millions of more poor immigrants will jump start the economy.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
Phineas Taylor Barnum

#4466104 - 03/18/19 12:09 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: Haggart]  
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 15,503
Haggart Offline
I Fought Diablo
Haggart  Offline
I Fought Diablo
Veteran

Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 15,503
The Lone Star State
Not sure why federal prosecutors would be investigating the development of the Max8 or is this routine stuff with air crashes ?


"everything lives by a law, a central balance sustains all"
#4466158 - 03/18/19 02:16 PM Re: Another Boeing 737 Max 8 Flight Goes Down [Re: oldgrognard]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,904
Alicatt Offline
Senior Member
Alicatt  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,904
Limburg
Originally Posted by oldgrognard
But the Boeing BA stock closed up today.

3% down today Edit: that was this morning, now down 10%

Reports saying investigators are now looking into the FAA's approval process for the MAX-8 as well as the extra training given to pilots on the differences between the standard 737 and the Max-8 version being only 56 minutes and on an iPad.

Not the link I first read it in this morning but contains similar info https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing...-scrutiny-ethiopian-airways-et302-crash/

Last edited by Alicatt; 03/18/19 02:19 PM.

Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil
Sons of the hound come here and get flesh
Clan Cameron
Page 2 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
The Darwin Effect
by vonBaur. 07/15/19 04:02 PM
Rare Sperm Whale Encounter with ROV
by Blade_RJ. 07/14/19 10:51 PM
Anyone play War of Rights?
by Ajay. 07/14/19 09:55 AM
Top Gun Spoof "USS Cardizem"
by Coot. 07/14/19 03:30 AM
The hidden truth about he-man
by Blade_RJ. 07/13/19 10:45 PM
Storm Barry and Jim Cantore
by Cajun. 07/13/19 02:07 PM
a really old car
by KraziKanuK. 07/12/19 01:46 AM
Greatest child actor performances in movies?
by PanzerMeyer. 07/11/19 06:39 PM
MotoGP rider Marc Marquez makes it a perfect 10
by Patrocles. 07/10/19 12:09 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0