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#4462640 - 02/23/19 03:55 PM Performance Issues  
Joined: May 2003
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CaptSopwith Offline
Barmy WingNut
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Hi Chaps,

Hope you are all doing well. I'm writing for some technical advice on getting the best out of WOTR. I've tried just about everything I can think of in the game settings and with my nVidia control panel but I've had no luck. The sim runs well right up until an engagement. Once the shooting starts and debris starts flying and radio chatter picks up, my sim is running in single digits. I've attached a few screen captures to show you what I mean. I've run WOTR's settings from factory stock all the way down to all 1's and it seems to have made no difference. Overall fps increase with lower settings, as to be expected, but nothing can seem to save me from single digits once an engagement begins. I've even tried a fresh install of both WOTR and even Windows but the results are the same. I do wonder if I'm just simply beyond the minimum specs to make this sim run adequately on my rig. I would greatly appreciate any advice on how to go forward from here.

Windows 10 1809
Intel i7 4790 @ 3.60ghz
12 GB RAM
nVidia GeForce 745GTX 4GB VRAM
TrackIR 4

Attached Files Shot02-23-19-10-42-27.jpgWOFF 4.21 Settings.png
Last edited by CaptSopwith; 02/23/19 03:56 PM.
#4462667 - 02/23/19 05:44 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
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Panama Red Offline
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Just to let you know, WOTR is more demanding of your CPU and GPU than WOFF UE.

As a result, what FPS you get with your PC in WOFF UE, you can not expect to get in WOTR, but lower over all.


CPU = i9 11900K
GPU = RTX 3080 Ti
Monitor = ASUS ROG Swift PG32UQX 2160p G-sync
#4462673 - 02/23/19 06:32 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
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kksnowbear Online content
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My own personal opinion, FWIW:

According to your post you have an i7 4790. Even at stock/no overclock, these are very capable CPUs, even when faced with a game like WOTR. Not to say it's flawless or perfect, but it's still a plenty able, fairly recent 4th-generation 4 core/8 thread CPU which runs at a 3.6-4Ghz depending on core load and temperature. Able to run most any game fairly well, within reason. So, unless it's overheating due to lack of proper cooling and thus throttling itself to keep temps down, I'd bet any amount of money the CPU isn't the issue here.

The GPU, OTOH, well...the GTX745 is an OEM-only, purpose-built unit for companies like Dell who use them to add some level of gaming capability to an otherwise incapable desktop/workstation system. (Note this is not to say you'll never find one in a non-OEM system, since they are still compatible. But for the most part, where you'd see these is mostly in OEM machines like Dells, HPs, etc.)

The significant part of all this is that these 745s represent a very basic, 'entry-level' graphics capability, which is almost certain to be irretrievably challenged by games like WOTR (and even much more recent games). In fact, if you'll pardon my saying it bluntly, your system with that 4790 is way overmatched with a GTX745.

I'd bet your issue is with the GPU. That machine would likely be able to support running, say, a 780, 980, 1060...and I am sure any/all of these would be a much better match to your 4790. To be more specific, we'd have to look at things like what resolution you intend to run, what kind of machine it is, what power supply, etc. Heck, even a 660*, 760 or 770...even a 560Ti* would almost certainly be a huge step up from the 745, at least up to about 1080p resolution.

The only real thing an OEM 745 ostensibly has going for it is that they sometimes come with 4G RAM (as in your case) - but, to be honest, I doubt the GPU itself can even push hard enough to utilize 4G RAM. Might be OK for the volume of texture storage in general, but it's still going to struggle putting those texture bits into pixels on-screen at a decent rate, which is what you're seeing with the slowdowns in engagements, IMHO. Having 4G RAM on that card is kind of like outfitting a WW1 rotary plane with a fuel tank that has enough capacity to run longer than the engine can run without requiring teardown/rebuild.

* (EDIT: A review of the WOTR minimum system requirements indicates a GTX670, which is also a much more powerful card than the 745. Just reinforces the above, and although it does technically rule out a 660 and a 560Ti, those are both also still well beyond the 745, and would undoubtedly run WOTR much better). So - from a technical stand point, yes you are well short of the minimum required GPU, according to OBD. That said, what you do to try addressing it will be largely a matter of budget, IMHO. If you're super-strapped, try finding a 660 or 560Ti. If you have even a little more breathing room, a 760 or 770 would be decent I'm sure. If you want a significant boost in performance and can afford it, consider a 780, 980, 1060 or beyond that. Which one of all these is best for you depends on budget, power supply, and your machine (chassis space).

What resolution do you (intend to) run? Are you considering a GPU upgrade anyway?

Last edited by kksnowbear; 02/23/19 07:33 PM.
#4462689 - 02/23/19 08:36 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
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Trooper117 Offline
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I've got a Nvidia GTX 1060, plus 16 gb of ram... and no matter what settings I have tried out in this game I still get persistent stutters.
I've used the settings advised in these forums, I've used the settings advised in the FAQs etc.
Still they persist... I just have to live with it, but it does pee me off.
Every other flight sim I have runs fine with my system, but not this one I'm afraid frown

Last edited by Trooper117; 02/23/19 09:29 PM.
#4462700 - 02/23/19 09:54 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
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gaw1 Offline
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Same as Trooper....had everything dialled up to max and running very hi screen res.....and had slideshow stutter during large engagements. Guess I was thinking WOFF UE for which I'd bought my rig. Maybe there's a LOT more environment in WOTR, and it certainly looks awesome when you've a moment to gawp at the scenery (before the next wave of bad chaps in on you),.... but I dialled down all the settings 1 notch in Workshops and I'm back to 50-60 fps furballs. I've no idea if this'll be ANY help but it worked for me. Until there's a Panama Red 300 solution for us for WOTR....we'll just have to lump along. For whatever it's worth....I noticed NO difference in the clouds, scenery, effects at those lower settings......but who's got time to obsess over details at 350mph w/ bad chaps on your ass. It's an awesome piece of work and I expect these FPS issues will work themselves out as people upgrade their rigs to meet the demands and/or our modders dream up magic bullets. Now, let's badger the Devs for a few more planes!!! Keep the faith.....

#4462705 - 02/23/19 10:28 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
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kksnowbear Online content
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kksnowbear  Online Content
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A 1060 is well beyond what OBD identifies as minimum on the WOTR website (a 670, as stated above). There are 2 types of 1060, though, so that might enter into it. Still, a 1060 is roughly comparable to a 970, which is in turn roughly comparable to a 780 (and I've owned and tested all of these, so that's based on measurable hard data, not speculation). A 670, as listed per the minimum requirement, is less than any of those. So, they should all be fine.

There are also others using lesser cards than a 1060, with decent results.

Of course, that's minimum, so you're not likely to be able to dial everything up, nor run at the highest resolution, nor with the most objects/activity. All these cards are effectively 3-3.5G RAM, so that's probably at the lower end of texture storage needed (670s came in both 2G or 4G, and OBD doesn't specify which; too bad, because this could possibly make a significant difference).

You also have to factor in that this sim has issues with stuttering regardless, and not necessarily improved with higher-end GPUs (per AnKor, still load on the CPU) and it's obviously going to be worse if you try to run it outside the range your hardware is capable of.

As gaw said, dialing it back might help...and there could be lots going on otherwise, too.

FWIW.

#4462708 - 02/23/19 10:55 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
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Trooper117 Offline
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If I remember right my 1060 has 6 gb of ram

#4462716 - 02/24/19 12:02 AM Re: Performance Issues [Re: Trooper117]  
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kksnowbear Online content
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kksnowbear  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Trooper117
If I remember right my 1060 has 6 gb of ram


Right. As I mentioned above, there are 2 types of 1060. There's the 6G like you have, and a 3G model. Perhaps more significantly, it's not just different memory sizes: The 6G model also has around 12% more shaders, texture mapping units, etc (the 'guts' that determine GPU performance).

The 1060 I mentioned above as comparable to 970, 780 etc, is the 3G model. They are similar in that they have approximately the same amount of memory, and perform roughly comparable to one another. Obviously the 6G 1060 would be slightly better.

So, if anything, this is just another reason your 1060 should be adequate - but, again, more toward the minimum requirement end, and certainly depending on settings.

Unless OBD has understated the minimum requirement, anyhow.

#4462719 - 02/24/19 12:18 AM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
Joined: May 2001
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Panama Red Offline
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Panama Red  Offline
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Irmo, SC, USA
gaw1:
I tried to mod WOTR, but with the vastly increased viewing distances in WOTR, the WOFF UE 300 series did not look the same in WOTR as in WOFF UE.

As a result, I am still using the Density setting of 5 in WOTR until I figure out a better method for WOTR.


CPU = i9 11900K
GPU = RTX 3080 Ti
Monitor = ASUS ROG Swift PG32UQX 2160p G-sync
#4462724 - 02/24/19 01:15 AM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
Joined: Sep 2015
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Stache Offline
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Capt,

Run MSI Afterburner during game play.
Monitor, the GPU usage, frame rate and the CPU usage.
In the thick of things, pause, and Alt Tab to afterburner and take a screen shot (I like GreenShot for this purpose).
Post your screen shots as done in this post.

Changed my resolutions down to 2560x1440 to see what framerate I managed there (normally I run 7780x1440)
Added some screen shots from this mission.

http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4453385/just-observations#Post4453385

Attached Files 4.jpg5.jpg11.jpgAfterburner - Take off.jpgAfterburner - combat.jpgWOTR graphic settings.jpg
Last edited by Stache; 02/24/19 02:34 AM.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. A. Einstein

(System Specs:)

I7-6700k OC 4.4GHZ, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz; Gigabyte Gaming 7 MB, G1 OC'ed GTX980ti; Three-Acer XB271HU WQHD Gsync 144Mhz; Samsung 950-512GB NVMe SSD; WD 2TB-7200rpm; Cooler Master HAF XB EVO, Nepton 240M cooler, V1000 PS; Windows 10 PRO; VKB GunfighterPro Stick; Thrustmaster TPR Pedals; Saitek Throttle; Dual TM MFD panels; TrackIR 5; Windows 10 v1909
#4462772 - 02/24/19 01:03 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 317
ChiefWH Offline
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Posts: 317
I don't have perfect performance, with some drops to <20 fps in busy attacks on escorted bomber formations, and over london can be a bit stuttery, but I enjoy the game easily enough, my Nvidia settings are attached.

Key things for me:

Campaign air activity, I have to have this on low. (large flights, regional and alert flights I can have 'on' though)

Fast vsync on Nvidia is much better than adaptive

Use in game AA not Nvidia

My in game graphics are 1920 X 1080, AAx2

Scenery density: I have to have at 3

Terrain quality: I use 4 or 3, not sure what I've decided on there.

Woods on low

Hope that helps.


My spec:

i5 4430 @ 3.0Ghz
16GB ram
GTX 970

(Just as an aside, the Nvidia settings that work well for me on WOTR are kind of opposite to what worked well on IL2 BoX)

Attached Files NV1.pngNV2.pngNV3.png
#4462805 - 02/24/19 04:54 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 823
CaptSopwith Offline
Barmy WingNut
CaptSopwith  Offline
Barmy WingNut
Member

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 823
United States
Hi Gents,

Many thanks for the quick replies. I had a sinking feeling it was my video card. The rig was purchased on a grad student budget so I'll have to make due for now. It's otherwise a great rig that actually runs the games I do have very well (I have a PS4 for the AAA games and big releases). Chief, I'll give those settings a try. My 745 tends to like adaptive more than fast but I'll give it a go with WOTR and report back. Will probably take a look at a 960 and see how it would play with the Dell's power supply setup.

WTOR looks like a phenomenal game - I'm very excited to see the directions that OBD takes the sim from here and I'm sure that once my job situation settles down (yay academics...) and I have some stable income I will put some money towards a swift upgrade (as well as my loans!).

Cheers guys! Thanks again! I greatly appreciate it!

#4462822 - 02/24/19 05:53 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
Joined: Jan 2016
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kksnowbear Online content
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kksnowbear  Online Content
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Originally Posted by CaptSopwith
Hi Gents,

Many thanks for the quick replies. I had a sinking feeling it was my video card. The rig was purchased on a grad student budget so I'll have to make due for now. It's otherwise a great rig that actually runs the games I do have very well (I have a PS4 for the AAA games and big releases). Chief, I'll give those settings a try. My 745 tends to like adaptive more than fast but I'll give it a go with WOTR and report back. Will probably take a look at a 960 and see how it would play with the Dell's power supply setup.

WTOR looks like a phenomenal game - I'm very excited to see the directions that OBD takes the sim from here and I'm sure that once my job situation settles down (yay academics...) and I have some stable income I will put some money towards a swift upgrade (as well as my loans!).

Cheers guys! Thanks again! I greatly appreciate it!



If you'll please PM me, I can probably help with your situation.

Thank you.

#4462829 - 02/24/19 06:25 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 8,138
Polovski Offline
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For more fps as per the FAQ section 13

Set Terrain Quality 6 (custom) then the three Custom Terrain settings below are enabled. On a lower system / GPU you will need lower settings try setting to say 323 322 or lower.

Last edited by Polovski; 02/24/19 06:25 PM.

Regards,

Polovski,
OBD Software, developers of immersive flight sims;
Wings Over Flanders Fields and Wings Over The Reich
http://www.overflandersfields.com
http://www.wingsoverthereich.com
#4463846 - 03/03/19 07:39 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
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CaptSopwith Offline
Barmy WingNut
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United States
Thanks again for all of the suggestions guys. As it turns out, most damage is self inflicted - I had cranked my graphics card settings up (as seen in the first screenshot) to bump up the graphics in OFF without ever thinking that the nVidia card runs that profile on both games. So after dialing my settings back where they have been literally since I got my Dell in 2015, it runs perfectly fine now. Still gets a bit choppy, but more than playable!

Note to self: Stop futzing with your settings and play the cuss game!

Cheers guys!

#4463931 - 03/04/19 11:53 AM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
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ChiefWH Offline
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Good to hear it. You can also try running track ir on less cores and see if that helps (if you haven't already).

I've been lured into the world of eye candy and frame rates over the years, WOTR has helped remind me what is actually important for my enjoyment. It isn't perfect, I'd love some things to improve performance-wise, but yep I take the odd choppiness as a small inconvenience that I tolerate until it clears which it does.

Many years ago I first played the original B17 on a seriously underpowered machine, so much so it was a complete slide show, yet i still loved the crew and damage management; I'd never go that far again though!

#4468518 - 04/02/19 12:52 AM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
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Skoop Offline
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Ventura, CalifornIA
We shouldn't all be struggling with our systems to run this game with high settings. It leads me to believe its the unoptimized code and dx9. This runs like old DCS before they upgraded to dx11. After the spit is released, there needs to be some serious optimization and directx upgrading done. The whole point is to have large formations with eyecandy and relive the BOB, it shouldn't be choking out my titan pascal.

#4468525 - 04/02/19 02:05 AM Re: Performance Issues [Re: Skoop]  
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Blade_Meister Offline
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Originally Posted by Skoop
We shouldn't all be struggling with our systems to run this game with high settings. It leads me to believe its the unoptimized code and dx9. This runs like old DCS before they upgraded to dx11. After the spit is released, there needs to be some serious optimization and directx upgrading done. The whole point is to have large formations with eyecandy and relive the BOB, it shouldn't be choking out my titan pascal.


Instead of just assuming WOTR is not optimized, post your 1.system specs and 2.your in game settings and 3. your Nvidia Control Panel settings. Let us know if you use 4. Nvidia Inspector and those settings and if you use 5.flight FX or Sweet FX and those settings. I have seen to many people have their in game and NVCP settings doubled up on AA or run the highest number super sampling and that just kills their frame rate. I use a GTX770 4GB slightly overclocked with an AMD Phenom II 965 BE @3.4Ghz and I maintain 59 FPS on a 60Hz monitor at 2560x1440 most of the time in low or medium air activity missions. I have some slight stuttering over London and maybe 30fps, but for the most part missions are very smooth at 59fps for me. I will put a dollar to a donut that you have something working against itself in your rig and that is the problem. Post up pictures for each number above for your Specs and lets see. yep

S!Blade<><

Last edited by Blade_Meister; 04/02/19 02:06 AM.
#4468561 - 04/02/19 12:43 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
Joined: Aug 2018
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Meplanes1969 Offline
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First off all I do agree most off are systems should run this game flawlessly on high settings.
My system3.70 Amd processor,8gb ram,Nvidia GTX 1050 2gb graphic card,my system from chili last,good budget gaming pc in the six hundred price range.
Runs sturmovik and blitz on lower settings smoothly at about 60fps
until recently my wings over the Reich was stutter really bad.
I reinstalled my game up to latest patch,prerenered frames set to 8,vsync on,time resolution set to maximum.
Now my game still not perfect but playable,which is good because I like this game.
so try to reinstall your game and look for any programs that are eating up your memory or cpu,I just think the cfs3.exe does not like modern computers ( old engine,modern hardware )

#4469036 - 04/05/19 03:10 PM Re: Performance Issues [Re: CaptSopwith]  
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 250
Redwolf Offline
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Maple Ridge, B.C., Canada
Ya, I think it is mainly an engine issue and not an optimization issue. I think they are squeezing out everything they can out of the old girl. WOFFUE was the peak, imho. There is no denying there is a good frame-rate loss comparing WOFFUE vs WOTR (for me its about 15-20%) - and yes I realize it is connected to polygon count, view distance, settings, etc. It still runs fine for me (though framerate varies wildly from 109 to 40 fps depending on what is happening (WOFFUE holds really consistently for me in comparison). But I believe they are certainly working very hard with it, and give them a lot of credit for squeezing out what they can with an engine not even set to use multiple cores.


Win10/ i5-7600/ 16GB RAM/ GTX1660 Super
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