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#4458728 - 01/26/19 06:33 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
If Winfield's additional "salty" commentary is upsetting you...you can hit the ignore button.


lol Franze seems far from upset smile

'Steamed hams?' lol that is classic biggrin





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#4458729 - 01/26/19 06:36 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: cichlidfan]  
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Originally Posted by cichlidfan

Am I the only one that finds Force10's comments to be biased toward his dislike of DCS?


I can understand why freedom to be critical of ED and their 3rd party offerings without the requirement of being "constructive" may seem biased...given that ED controlled forums have certain requirements for how you voice your negative experiences. Now...I'm not sure how exactly you can expect your customers to be "constructive" about being outright burned on the P-40 out of money, in addition to having a partially functioning Hawk module that's no longer supported. Yes...we understand it's a risk with pre-orders but in the case of the Hawk, it was sold at the ED store and ED got their cut of profits so it's a slap in the face.

Customers getting the short end shouldn't be swept under the rug and forgotten IMO...it may save someone from making the same mistakes with their money later.


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#4458742 - 01/26/19 10:11 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: cichlidfan]  
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Originally Posted by cichlidfan
Originally Posted by Force10
Just a friendly reminder that being critical of a posted opinion here is fine...don't let it get personal! It looks like this is where it's heading...so let's be sure not to go there.

Franze...I'm looking at Winfield's posts about the fiasco as an After Action Report. I was never really interested in the Hawk as a purchase, so I didn't follow the history and find some of these posts interesting. If Winfield's additional "salty" commentary is upsetting you...you can hit the ignore button. Or, feel free to challenge his opinion with your own.


Am I the only one that finds Force10's comments to be biased toward his dislike of DCS?


Moderators need to be evenhanded in upholding the forum rules. They are still entitled to their opinions and are entitled to voice them as long as they abide by the forum rules.

#4458775 - 01/26/19 06:01 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by cichlidfan
Originally Posted by Force10
Just a friendly reminder that being critical of a posted opinion here is fine...don't let it get personal! It looks like this is where it's heading...so let's be sure not to go there.

Franze...I'm looking at Winfield's posts about the fiasco as an After Action Report. I was never really interested in the Hawk as a purchase, so I didn't follow the history and find some of these posts interesting. If Winfield's additional "salty" commentary is upsetting you...you can hit the ignore button. Or, feel free to challenge his opinion with your own.


Am I the only one that finds Force10's comments to be biased toward his dislike of DCS?

No, you're not.

@Force10: The problem is is that you give anti-DCS people, and people that you find 'important to the community', much more leeway than people that have something positive to say about DCS. Even though these should be the same buckets of water and be uphold to the same standard.

#4458808 - 01/26/19 09:16 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Bias, no bias; not particularly concerned. The VEAO debacle and the chronicling of that situation as a whole needs to be done, similar to the Starforce debates. No, what I dislike is calling out former SimHQ members, people who were and are strong members of the sim community, for things they have little to do with the situation at hand. But, ah... I think my point has already been succinctly made by others by now. So, I will politely bow out and allow the handful of concerned fellows on this forum their space in which to bitterly complain about a game they no longer have any interest in.

#4458814 - 01/26/19 09:50 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
Originally Posted by cichlidfan

Am I the only one that finds Force10's comments to be biased toward his dislike of DCS?


I can understand why freedom to be critical of ED and their 3rd party offerings without the requirement of being "constructive" may seem biased...given that ED controlled forums have certain requirements for how you voice your negative experiences. Now...I'm not sure how exactly you can expect your customers to be "constructive" about being outright burned on the P-40 out of money, in addition to having a partially functioning Hawk module that's no longer supported. Yes...we understand it's a risk with pre-orders but in the case of the Hawk, it was sold at the ED store and ED got their cut of profits so it's a slap in the face.

Customers getting the short end shouldn't be swept under the rug and forgotten IMO...it may save someone from making the same mistakes with their money later.



I like the community manager's response to the hoards venting their anger over the VEAO's demise. It gives meaning to ED's overall stance on what the VEAO situation is.

[Linked Image]

#4458815 - 01/26/19 09:58 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Vaderini]  
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Originally Posted by Vaderini
Originally Posted by cichlidfan
Originally Posted by Force10
Just a friendly reminder that being critical of a posted opinion here is fine...don't let it get personal! It looks like this is where it's heading...so let's be sure not to go there.

Franze...I'm looking at Winfield's posts about the fiasco as an After Action Report. I was never really interested in the Hawk as a purchase, so I didn't follow the history and find some of these posts interesting. If Winfield's additional "salty" commentary is upsetting you...you can hit the ignore button. Or, feel free to challenge his opinion with your own.


Am I the only one that finds Force10's comments to be biased toward his dislike of DCS?

No, you're not.

@Force10: The problem is is that you give anti-DCS people, and people that you find 'important to the community', much more leeway than people that have something positive to say about DCS. Even though these should be the same buckets of water and be uphold to the same standard.


for the record....I am not as you say "anti-DCS"....2 weeks ago I actually fired up DCS and installed the Harrier. I said some positive things about that module. anti-DCS would mean I don't have it on the hard drive and make baseless opinions, I would class myself as "anti-ED\VEAO" not anti-DCS

Also, post some examples where Force10 is giving more leeway to people who bag out ED compared to people saying positive things. don't attack the strawman.

#4458842 - 01/26/19 11:59 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Winfield, I know that you aren't anti-DCS, but you're certainly viewed as 'important to the community'.

And I've taken it up to Force10 about those people and him picking favorites in the past both in public and through PM. I don't mind mentioning those people again, but I feel that won't be fair since they're not following this discussion and I don't want to talk about people behind their backs. (exception for -ice, that -Ice guy was way out of control with his personal attacks and insults, long before he felt empowered enough to go after the mods. There have been people been banned from SimHQ for lesser transgressions, but alas, they didn't share the same opinion as Force10...)

I mean, if you look at the current discussion:

- You make a zing towards BeachAV8, the guy who rubberstamps everything ED throws at him for a review as "amazing".
- Frunze zings you back for being salty
- You zing him back with a reference, comparing his post to VEAO coding
- Frunze explains that he understands why you have a crusade going on, but doesn't understand why the verocity of your crusade
- Then we get: "you still with me so far?? or do I need to simplify that further so it sinks in??", in bold
- At this time, Force10 steps in with a reminder that the thread is heading into "getting personal" territory (where it already was with your comment). Followed by a rant towards Frunze that if your posts upsets him, he can either use the ignore-button, or start going after your opinion. Even though Frunze did nothing wrong and was so far in the center of the debate as is humanly possible, that it is weird where that comment comes from.

Force10 is showing exactly the same behavior as the people do on the ED Forums, but turned 180 degrees.
Instead of propagating debate and free speech, we have a "if you don't like it, go away!"- comment. Which isn't what SimHQ tries exude i'm sure, and is personal as well. I mean: how do you even respond to a post like that?

With permission, I wouldn't mind bringing up past posts and users, but a separate thread would be in order for that, instead of hijacking a thread about VEAO.

#4458847 - 01/27/19 12:54 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Ice didn't 'go after the mods' at all....he was having a perfectly valid discussion with many others in the PWEC section of the forum. What happened was completely over the top by one mod who was also discussing something and posting much worse, and then was the only person who went completely over the top and insisted Ice stopped discussing it and this his own opinion was gospel.

Vaderini, why do you want to 'talk about people' in the first place, be it behind someone's back or full frontal? SimHQ is about the games/sims and always has been. A thread about 'people' is not going to achieve anything. I'm not sure if you're trying to launch a rebuke against the VEAO thread?.....a thread that again is discussing a module of a sim, and which happens to have been developed by utter incompetence....something again, that was highlighted in this very forum a good few years ago.

Winfield mentioned Beach going wax lyrical about DCS in reviews, which is completely true.....but he's still talking about DCS and in this specific case probably the C101 update which Beach had never been outspoken about how poor the first iteration was. Any reply that talks about someone being 'salty' is only discussing the individual.....it's the same old story. People read something negative about a game/sim they like and start talking about the person in reply - do they not have the ability to accept criticism about a sim they like? It's ridiculous. I also believe that Beach clearly has bias with the DCS reviews, can you give any example at all that doesn't go over the top, whether it's a preview or review he never mentions the flaws, and never returns to a preview/review to set the record straight.....perhaps the bias relates to this;

Originally Posted by BeachAV8R
I received a rather unexpected e-mail from Eagle Dynamics producer Matt Wagner, better known as “Wags” on the DCS forums. He kindly asked me if I was interested to be a part of the Tester Team for DCS World 2. Being an insatiable DCS enthusiast, I saw this as a perfect opportunity to help the developer team while doing what I love most: flying


You'll find reviews and previews going back to 2015 and beyond about WW2, payware campaigns that sound like the best thing since sliced bread, yet have absolutely failed or still haven't been put right. Given what we see released by ED, the tester team need a good shake as I'm not too sure what they're actually testing as they don't catch the simplest of bugs for starters.



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#4458852 - 01/27/19 01:38 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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I was responding to this
Originally Posted by Winfield
Also, post some examples where Force10 is giving more leeway to people who bag out ED compared to people saying positive things. don't attack the strawman.


I'm not even going to dignify the rest of your post, if you can't even have the decency to read more than the last post in a discussion. It's really disrespectful of you towards people that DO make an effort.

#4458853 - 01/27/19 01:40 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Alright...this has gone far enough. I'm going to remind everyone that open discussion about moderation on the forums is discouraged...this is a standard for most forums.

Consider this a warning.


Valerdini...the reason you see it as being more harsh against "pro DCS" members is that they throw the first punch 90% of the time. Instigators...or those who start the fight are generally dealt with more harshly. It's always the same story...someone is critical of a module and someone else gets their feelings hurt and starts taking personal shots cause they don't like what they're saying.

I never told anyone "if you don't like it, go away!" I suggested using the ignore function which many users find helpful.

Again...any more open discussion about moderation will result in time off.

Also...if anyone has moderation concerns they can send Cyberkut or Oldgrognard a pm...they are higher ranking than me.


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#4458861 - 01/27/19 03:19 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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This guy is entering uncharted territory.....I'd rather spend my lost money running VEAO down so that ED never sign a contract with dodgy developer's again. I get more satisfaction updating this thread than
what I ever could from actually flying the Hawk or any other hypothetical aircraft VEAO would have released if they hadn't run off with the money.

[Linked Image]

have a go at this.

[Linked Image]

Yet in my earlier posts a couple of pages back....the Alpha had only just been released and now the copy protection is preventing the hawk being released as a Beta?
but hang on....you need to patch ED's files in order to get the Hawk to work.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

This would have to be some kind of record going from an Alpha release in November (which requires multiple patches in order to use it outside of the official ED update) to a Beta release in 3 months. Was it really 3 months though? stay tuned.





#4458874 - 01/27/19 05:19 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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By this stage....the "official" tester's had received their 'free' copies of the Hawk to test, is that not the process before releasing anything to the public and consumer's?
what were the tester's actually testing here that would have them overlook the most simple detail? Nevada, 1.5 perhaps? anything other than this POS yet anyone putting a word out of line
on the ED forums was quickly shut down by Neil Willis and those 'official testers' and moderators. You know....the 'respected' members of ED

[Linked Image]

I have used responses to bugs numerous times from Chris at the beginning of this thread. Here is why....and I will state this again "VEAO don't test their own aircraft"

note that Chris's response was well after the throttle issue was reported


[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by Chris
it seems


yes Chris....is seems you never tested or flew your own aircraft....too busy watching the paypal account as the money rolled in eh?


#4458916 - 01/27/19 04:08 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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roll on Feb of 2015.....to answer the question of "was the beta released"......

[Linked Image]

2015 looked to be year VEAO would have great success. Watch as the spin doctors were working hard behind the scenes to bring unfinished products to the DCS series.

[Linked Image]

Look at the time frame Pete states for the P-40F, this was posted in Feb 2015. Typhoon on track for a christmas 2015 release. Vampire is set for Q2 Q3 2015.
the blue skies were finally coming together. No mention of the side project with dovetail's FSW

Why didn't ED pull the plug on the contracts after this post by Chris and Pete? did NineLine have a hand to play considering his focus was seeing more WW2 warbirds in the mix and VEAO were the only developer working on them other than ED\Belsimtek?

Hawk was still in an unusable state with out additional 3rd party patches and here Chris and Pete are conning consumer's into "throwing more money at the screen"

#4458978 - 01/28/19 01:27 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Only a couple of weeks later after that update......

[Linked Image]

Typhoon has only now began development. Then Chris finishes off with some crap about having to do the model from scratch.
basically 3 years of development time scrapped.

have a go at this thread

meanwhile as Chris and Pete are out fraudulently holidaying around the country side and claiming it back on their next tax bill.....

[Linked Image]

The beta should have been in this update

it will not be the 1st time ED do not include Hawk updates in official patches.

meanwhile.....

[Linked Image]

That was an edited post by Chris, check the date. Every update to DCS up until this point required external patches released by VEAO in order for Hawk to function.

Yet the mig guys where on their way to stardom, aviodev were pushing further into the unknown. VEAO were lagging well behind and it shows in the patch release notes.

Yet even through all this VEAO still rode the hype train, driven by 'respected' members of the sim community.

Ed's patience had worn thin by this stage of development. Not thin enough to rip up the 3rd party license though, and the con job rolled on.

why wasn't the patch released?

[Linked Image]

"something got broke" I wonder what that something was....certainly not the VEAO ego bubble,

[Linked Image]

How contradictory as earlier Chris states Beta will be in the next patch, then he get's home from his holiday with Pete only to have to 'build the patch"
as "he was not aware it would coming out so soon" yet ED have been sitting on the files for over a month by this stage. Did Chris not bother to check his e-mails while he was grinding himself over the tail of tyhoon (yes he actually stated he did that)
10's of thousands of sales?? even 2000 was no doubt a stretch of the truth.
Then there is the dreaded NDA crap sprouted by VEAO repetitively when it was quite clear of the tension between ED VEAO

The relationship with ED was on the rocks. No amount of relationship\marriage counseling could mend this violent and torrid partnership..


#4459056 - 01/28/19 08:41 PM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Originally Posted by "Neil Willis" on the ED message boards


I have a feeling that the harshest critics of the Typhoon will be Pman and Chris. I am equally sure that this will be the most complete, accurate, and realistic Typhoon ever created, and will set standards developers on other flight sim platforms can only dream of.


I nearly spat my cornflakes out reading that..... he couldn't have got that one more wrong, even if he was called Wrong Wrongley and lived in Wrongland


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#4459089 - 01/29/19 12:17 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted by Paradaz
Originally Posted by "Neil Willis" on the ED message boards


I have a feeling that the harshest critics of the Typhoon will be Pman and Chris. I am equally sure that this will be the most complete, accurate, and realistic Typhoon ever created, and will set standards developers on other flight sim platforms can only dream of.


I nearly spat my cornflakes out reading that..... he couldn't have got that one more wrong, even if he was called Wrong Wrongley and lived in Wrongland



God, you just had to bring that up....

Ever since DiD's EF2000, I wanted a high fidelity Typhoon. I was hoping soo much.....what a disappointment.

#4459099 - 01/29/19 02:26 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Paradaz]  
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Originally Posted by Paradaz
Originally Posted by "Neil Willis" on the ED message boards


I have a feeling that the harshest critics of the Typhoon will be Pman and Chris. I am equally sure that this will be the most complete, accurate, and realistic Typhoon ever created, and will set standards developers on other flight sim platforms can only dream of.


I nearly spat my cornflakes out reading that..... he couldn't have got that one more wrong, even if he was called Wrong Wrongley and lived in Wrongland


That one is a gem, I have thought about starting a thread called "completely out of touch with reality posts by Neil Willis and other ED propaganda spin doctors" here might be going to far.

Unless of course members would like one.....i have a few up my sleeve ready for the occasion


#4459258 - 01/30/19 02:28 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: Winfield]  
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Way over in Perth, Western Aus...
Saw this parked up at Kalgoorlie airport the other day.. I think it was broken. Is it a VEAO Hawk? duck


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


mdwa
#4459278 - 01/30/19 05:06 AM Re: DCS: VEAO Hawk EFM & Damage Model [Re: piper]  
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Originally Posted by piper
Originally Posted by Paradaz
Originally Posted by "Neil Willis" on the ED message boards


I have a feeling that the harshest critics of the Typhoon will be Pman and Chris. I am equally sure that this will be the most complete, accurate, and realistic Typhoon ever created, and will set standards developers on other flight sim platforms can only dream of.


I nearly spat my cornflakes out reading that..... he couldn't have got that one more wrong, even if he was called Wrong Wrongley and lived in Wrongland



God, you just had to bring that up....

Ever since DiD's EF2000, I wanted a high fidelity Typhoon. I was hoping soo much.....what a disappointment.


I don't know much of what's going on in the flight sim world as I checked out a long time ago. But I remember a Typhoon and I'm pretty sure it was the one you guys are talking about. That was the one chance of possibly pulling me back into current flight simming (I had already given up on a realistic F-117, F-22, F-35 or EF2000 sim from TK/Third Wire). I mean, I would have gone all the way with it, all new PC and HOTAS, TrackIR, the works. I would have even gone Steam if I had to (so far I haven't succumbed to software subscription or any online umbilical cord).

Assuming the atmosphere and environment (minus a full-blown DC) could have come close to EF2000.

I still have these pics (and a few others)...

Attached Files 1526745_696718300350061_1740489066_n.jpg1511530_696718000350091_2065683974_n.jpg1601274_696717947016763_1538039548_n.jpg1551619_696718143683410_163835762_n.jpgrender2.jpgrender6.jpg
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