Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
#4455530 - 12/31/18 05:51 PM OT: Pfalz DIII Prop  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 846
HumanDrone Offline
Just shoot me...
HumanDrone  Offline
Just shoot me...
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 846
Near Pittsburgh, PA USA
I moved this from Sandbaggers build thread to avoid a derailment. besides, i've learned some stuff since then...

I bought my father-in-law a Dumas balsa wood and tissue Pfalz DIII for Christmas. It's right about 1:20 scale (18" wingspan). But it's meant to be a rubber band flying model, he wants to display it, and the kit prop is rather cartoonish for this purpose. I pulled a drawing off of Wikipedia, it says the real prop was 2750 mm across, so a 137 mm two-blade prop... or could I get an actual drawing and just scale it?

My Googling hasn't helped much so far... as a matter f fact it made it worse! At WWI Aero (I think) (I'm so blasted busy...), there was an actual photo of DIII (note DIIIa) with a 4 bladed prop! And no prop cone, but perhaps it hadn't been mounted yet. The prop cone and prop would be so much nicer if properly represented... but now, is it two blade,4 blade???! I don't think I've ever seen a WWI scout or fighter with a 4 blade prop before! Still, many of you know this stuff WAY better than I do.

Thanks all, Happy New Year!


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX580 OC'd / 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4455533 - 12/31/18 06:12 PM Re: OT: Pfalz DIII Prop [Re: HumanDrone]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 63
VonS Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
VonS  Offline
WWI Flight Sims on a Mac
Junior Member

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 63
As far as I know, the Pfalz D.III/IIIa variants received 2-bladed props only, plus the prop cone. 4-bladed scouts include the Siemens-Schuckert D.III and D.IV, also some engine-variants of the Pfalz D.VIII. The Pfalz D.VIII powered by the Siemens-Halske rotary has much the same nose shape as the Siemens-Schuckert.

The mid-producton Hisso. SE5a variants usually had four blades, and the BE2/c/e two-seaters, the BE12 single-seater variant too - and some of the multi-engined bombers (Handley-Page, etc.). A 4-bladed prop was also experimented with on some late production Fokk. Dr.I variants...requiring taller wheel/gear assembly for the wider diameter prop, and removal of the "wing" on the gear assembly. Those were tested with Siemens-Halske 11-cylinder rotaries I think. As well possible is that some Pfalz Dr.I triplanes were fitted with 4 instead of 2-bladed props.

I'm sure some of our prop. experts will pitch in (pun intended) with more info. Also, I remember seeing an old photo with a real rarity - a three-bladed wooden prop....that one must have been difficult to carve/laminate...but I don't recall the airplane type now...or was it a seaplane of some kind. Hardly any 3-bladed props in use in WWI.

Happy flying gents' and a happy new year to all,
Von S cheers

Last edited by VonS; 12/31/18 06:21 PM. Reason: Added info.
#4455539 - 12/31/18 07:00 PM Re: OT: Pfalz DIII Prop [Re: HumanDrone]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 846
HumanDrone Offline
Just shoot me...
HumanDrone  Offline
Just shoot me...
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 846
Near Pittsburgh, PA USA
Thank you sir! I wonder what I saw... no time to look now, grandkids just showed up. I was hoping to just buy a wooden RC prop, but cannot find the size.

I do hope somebody pitches in with their spin on it! (can we get a pun train going?)


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX580 OC'd / 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4455561 - 12/31/18 09:40 PM Re: OT: Pfalz DIII Prop [Re: HumanDrone]  
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,865
Fullofit Offline
Member
Fullofit  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,865
Ajax, ON
Drone, have you tried this place?

https://www.justmodelprops.com/

Look under 'Xoar' then 'WWI' then 'German Axial Propellers'.

Also, I believe Fokker tried the X propeller and to prop up my claim here's a pic:

Attached Files cac05e125cd930aaef84f21445b76ce9.jpg

"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4455590 - 01/01/19 01:30 AM Re: OT: Pfalz DIII Prop [Re: HumanDrone]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 846
HumanDrone Offline
Just shoot me...
HumanDrone  Offline
Just shoot me...
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 846
Near Pittsburgh, PA USA
Wow, Fullofit, the Axial are great looking props! I even saw the Axial logo on one of the Wingnut Winds photos! And for the life of me I can't find that 4 bladed prop pic again... I must've been into the eggnog a bit too much!

Trouble is the scale of the plane is about 1/20th, so roughly 5.5 inch or 14 cm prop would be what I need. So blasted close. But they start at 18 (probably inches).

If anybody can pitch something else at me (besides your shoes), I'd sure appreciate it. I'd be willing to lay up a pattern and cut it out/shape it by hand, if I could get one. (way to keep it going, Fullofit, I almost missed it! and speaking of pitch that 4 blade almost looks like a feathered prop! Steep pitch on that thing!)

Last edited by HumanDrone; 01/01/19 01:34 AM. Reason: Aw shoot, I re-used VonS's pun...

Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX580 OC'd / 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!
#4455599 - 01/01/19 02:59 AM Re: OT: Pfalz DIII Prop [Re: HumanDrone]  
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,865
Fullofit Offline
Member
Fullofit  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,865
Ajax, ON
Well HD, if you want to screw around and make your own then why not grab a picture of a real one, scale it to size and carve one out with a sharp blade, but I'm not a big fan of the idea.

http://www.woodenpropeller.com

Also, you may visit here:

www.stickandtissue.com


Looks like someone is doing exactly what you want to do.

Attached Files AXIAL_PROP_FOR_200_HP_BMW.jpgAXIAL_PROP.jpgAXIAL_PROP_4_593x768.jpg

"Take the cylinder out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain, my brain,
From out of my arse take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."
#4455634 - 01/01/19 02:12 PM Re: OT: Pfalz DIII Prop [Re: HumanDrone]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 237
rtoolooze262 Offline
Member
rtoolooze262  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 237
Mo. USA
I'm a big fan of free flight scale balsa models, and I see a lot of guys doing just that, carving their own props out of Balsa. A lot of Plans have the instructions and the dimensions for carving the prop.

http://www.endlesslift.com/carving-a-balsa-propeller/

#4455710 - 01/01/19 09:39 PM Re: OT: Pfalz DIII Prop [Re: HumanDrone]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 683
33lima Offline
Member
33lima  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 683
Belfast, NI
Buy a cheap piece of 1/16th thick Balsa sheet.

Cut a set of strips from it, all a little longer than the required length of your prop, and each about the same width as its required blades.

Using a piece of piano wire or similar, pierce a hole in the dead centre of each strip, where the centre of the prop boss would be.

Thread the balsa strips together, on the piano wire.

Fan them out slightly each side, to approximate the required pitch of your prop - something between 20 and 40 degrees ought to do.

Glue the strips together with balsa glue in these fan shapes, and allow to dry thoroughly.

You should at this point have what looks like two small Spanish-type fans, slightly unfolded to an arc of say 20 degrees, opposite one another and with the piano wire as their axis.

Now remove the piano wire and leaving the boss area alone in the centre, cut the outer extremities of each fan back so looking from the front, they begin to look like prop blades.

Now sand each fan/blade smooth, to lose the steps in your two fans. Shape to get each blade the size and shape you want.

Sand the boss area into a cylinder and add some details from suitable materials based on pics.

Apply some sanding sealer, sand lightly with fine grade paper, and give it several coats of varnish, allowing to dry thoroughly in between coats obviously.

Being made from strips like real props of the time, it can give you a realistic laminated appearance. Especially if you pick different sheets which vary in colour slightly, and alternate the strips. Or even use the same sheet and stain alternate strips with tea or coffee.

It's also very inexpensive.

Technique is from a c.1971 Scale Models article on scratch-building rubber-powered flying scale models from balsa. Was intended to produce large props suitable for rubber power rather than scale but worked well enough to make realistic props for the display models I made using the technique, including an Albatros D.V, Fokker E.III, Fokker Dr.I, Fokker D.VII, S.E.5a and F.E.2b, all now long gone and unphotographed, sadly.



Last edited by 33lima; 01/01/19 09:44 PM.
#4455770 - 01/02/19 01:45 PM Re: OT: Pfalz DIII Prop [Re: HumanDrone]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 237
rtoolooze262 Offline
Member
rtoolooze262  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 237
Mo. USA
That's a great idea 33lima, gonna have to try that sometime!

#4455883 - 01/03/19 04:44 AM Re: OT: Pfalz DIII Prop [Re: HumanDrone]  
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 351
ARUP Offline
Member
ARUP  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 351
Kentucky
The 'X' prop is a 'Jarray' propeller. My spelling may be in error. In lieu of a static prop cut a properly sized disc from clear plastic. 'Pinch' it with 200 grit sand paper then give it a turn or two so that it gets arcuate scratches. Cut a hole in the center to fit the prop spinner on the model. Voilà! Or... rather... Hier! It will look like a spinning prop!

#4456021 - 01/04/19 03:25 AM Re: OT: Pfalz DIII Prop [Re: HumanDrone]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 846
HumanDrone Offline
Just shoot me...
HumanDrone  Offline
Just shoot me...
Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 846
Near Pittsburgh, PA USA
Ohhh, sorry gang! I got a vicious cold and was knocked out the last couple of days. 33Lima, I was thinking of something along those lines. Staining with tea or coffee is even better! I was going to use real stain, but for balsa it tends to soak in 'way too much color. Fullofit, thanks so much.. the Google-fu is very strong with you! rtoolooze262, I hadn't seen that one either, though the pitch is very high on his example. Arup, not sure if he wants a spinning prop or not, I'll ask him.

The model doesn't have a prop spinner, so I have to come up with that as well.

Y'all are the best! Thanks and Happy New Year! Keep up the good (virtual) fight!


Box: Win7 Pro 64 bit / I72600K @4.1 GHz / EVGA GTX580 OC'd / 16GB RAM / Corsair 240 GB SSD / WD 600 GB Velociraptor / 1050W Power
FS Stuff: Saitek X52 Pro Stick/Throttle & Combat Rudder Pedals, TrackIR 5
Sims: FSX Gold, REX 2.0 OD, UTX-NA, FSGenesis 10m mesh/ CFS3 ETO 1.40/Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition (more gorgeous than ever!)
Proud BOC inductee 4/30/12!

Moderated by  Polovski 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
So touching
by RossUK. 01/22/19 06:18 PM
Ace Combat 7
by RossUK. 01/22/19 05:18 PM
a world without smartphones NY 93
by Blade_RJ. 01/21/19 09:21 PM
So I decided to play GTA V
by DBond. 01/21/19 05:06 PM
Missile Intercept caught on Skiers camera.
by jack72. 01/21/19 03:05 PM
Dr Who previous incarnation (NSFW)
by DM. 01/21/19 12:00 PM
Parody Songs
by F4UDash4. 01/19/19 08:22 PM
Medical Medium
by Marc. 01/19/19 06:17 PM
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0