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#4451542 - 12/03/18 08:30 AM Bitmap juggling  
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MrJelly Offline
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To test the multi-skin maker I chose one of Ray's planes that had no BMP files.
It worked, so I wanted to add the BMP files because they can be edited directly without the need to convert them.
So I unpicked the TPC files to make PCX files and used a converter to make BMP files.
They did not work as one which I has edited seemed to show the original and not the edited version.
Investigation showed that the converted files were 8-bit BMP and the 160 exe is programmed to read 24-bit.
As a result they were not being read

So I made a 256x256 blank 24-bit BMP file and pasted my edited file into it using MSPaint.
It retained the 24-bit format, and worked when I ran the exe.
However, some patches of additional colour appeared which were not in the original. I could see them in the BMP file after pasting.

So I looked for another solution. I loaded the 8-bit BMP into MSPaint, and saved it as a JPG. Then I saved the JPG as a 24-bit BMP.
It worked perfectly smile

[Linked Image]

wink Jel


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#4451548 - 12/03/18 10:00 AM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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MarkEAW Offline
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aww, cool. But JPG sucks arse, even with low compression. You don't want to ruin a BMP that way.

There is a free Photofiltre program out there (there is a free one and a better one that cost money), it allows index pallets. (VBH would know more about the PALs than I of course.)
But makes it easy to clean up stray colors. But I'm not 100% sure what needs to be done to avoid JPG. lol.

#4451559 - 12/03/18 11:10 AM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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So here's a question.

Can you mix BMP's and tpc/pcx's.

I ask because the BMP's are a lot larger in size than the tpc files

A little background.

I'm working on a B-26 multi-skin project and I've come up with a way to make the folder size quite a bit smaller.

Since the game will use the main plane's skin if it doesn't find any multi-skins we don't need duplicates of some parts such as the cockpit, shadow and in some cases, the props, fuselage and wing views.

So I made a "B.3dz" with only one transparent element which points to PLANEB.pcx. This pcx is nothing but a single picture made up of nose art. Then I attached the "B" with a hardpoint to the appropriate spot on the "C.3dz", which is the left half of the nose.

It shows up perfectly in the game and it works for the multiskins too. The advantage is that I don't need many of the 3dz and tpc files as long as the basic skin is the same. So, for instance, if the third, fourth, fifth and ninth plane are sliver, as is the lead plane, I can leave out the fuselage 3dz's and tpc's for those planes.

The "B".tpc is pretty sharp since it takes up the entire pallet but I'm limited to the 256 color pallet and with that limitation skin tones are tough to get correct. (And as we well know, lot of the nose art involves scantily clad women).

So, could I make a "b".bmp to replace the B"B.tpc, without converting the entire set of files?


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4451560 - 12/03/18 11:12 AM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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MrJelly Offline
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Mark:
The point is that the BMP made from the PCX is 8-bit, with the same colours as the PCX, so it is not high quality in the first place. The goal is just to get a 24-bit version with exactly the same colours, which can be duplicated from plane01 to plane02-15 by the multiskin utility. This would then give the modder some BMPs to work with.
It is not intended to be a finished product, but something that creates 24-bit BMP files from the PCX in the case where no BMP files exist.

Ray:
You can mix BMP with TPC files
If there is a "Plane01TX.TPC" and a "Plane01TX.BMP" then the "Plane01TX.BMP" will be used as the texture file. If there is no "Plane01TX.BMP" then the "Plane01TX.TPC" will be used.

wink Jel

Last edited by MrJelly; 12/03/18 11:17 AM.

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I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4451563 - 12/03/18 11:56 AM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Ok, good, I'll give it a try and report back.

I see some "empty" tpc files in Iron Mike's 24bit multiskin sets.

Do I have to include something like that with the set?

Your comment seems to indicate that I don't but then why do IM's sets have them?


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4451567 - 12/03/18 12:31 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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MrJelly Offline
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There must be a matching TPC file to the BMP. The exe reads it to get the size, then reads the BMP to get the textures. So if the BMP is 256x256 then the TPC must be 256x256.
A "blank" TPC file is OK if it is only there for the exe to get the size.


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4451569 - 12/03/18 12:42 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Ok, thanks. I'll start with a set from IM since they meet the stated requirements.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4451601 - 12/03/18 04:00 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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No luck with the BMP file.

All I see in the game is the blank .tpc file that I made to go along with the.bmp file.

There are NO multiskins presently in the folder, just the primary files with the normal naming convention.

Does the game need to see some multiskin files for the BMP to work?


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4451603 - 12/03/18 04:08 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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MrJelly Offline
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Check that the BMP is 24 bit.
I will check that the BMP works with just the primary skin and get back to you.


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4451607 - 12/03/18 04:26 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Yeah, that was it. I set it to 24 bit in Photoshop and I can see the image.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4451608 - 12/03/18 04:39 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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The .bmp picture looks WAY better in game than the pcx picture it replaces.

OK, next question.

How do I get the bmp to show up in 3dz Studio?

I want to improve the "B.3dz" to better conform to the contours of the nose on the B-26 so I need to add a couple of elements rather that having one square element.

I can add the elements without any problem but I can't see the picture to adjust the mapping.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4451618 - 12/03/18 05:02 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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MrJelly Offline
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I just did a test to get a definitive answer to your earlier question, but I will use it to ask for ideas on another matter that I raised at the Gen earlier today.

This was my skin folder with just the primary files.
I made copies of my "Plane01" BMPs and re-named them to match the names of the primary TPCs

[Linked Image]

It worked, as we can see the "Plane01" BMP textures on the primary 3dzs:

[Linked Image]

What I mentioned at the Gen is the rear wheel and the aerial.
In the "PlaneAEX.TCP/PCX" there is a pink area which is a transparency.
The colour is the same in the BMP, but it does not work as a transparency.
Is it possible to fix this?

Just a reminder that this is part of a project which is meant to go like this:

1. A player has a good single skin in 160 format, but no BMP files. He wants to make a set of multiskins, with editable BMPs using the editor I have just made.
2. He "unpicks" the TPCs, and converts the PCX files to 24-bit BMPs so that now he has the BMPs.
3. Using the editor he makes the Plane01 files, modifies one of the Plane01 BMPs, and tests them.
4. If he sees that the modification shows on the Plane01 he knows it is working, and on a couple of mouseclicks he can make the Plane02-Plane15 files.

At a very simple level a player could create 24-bit BMPs for a single skin and edit them in MSPaint just for a bit of fun. The TPC files are not changed so nothing can be lost.

So I would like some means of fixing the transparency problem, that players can use.

wink Jel

Last edited by MrJelly; 12/03/18 05:03 PM.

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I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4451620 - 12/03/18 05:06 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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There is a version of the studio that uses BMPs.
I have not used the studio for years, so it may take a while. Iron Mike may know.

wink


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I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4451626 - 12/03/18 05:45 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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The settings for transparency on an 8 bit pcx are :

Red - 252
Green - 0
Blue - 252

Hue - 213
Sat. - 255
Light - 126

Edit the pallet so that the first color has these settings.

I used the same settings on the 24 bit bmp that I just made and it worked. Which surprised the hell out of me.

BTW, in case it wasn't clear, you color around the wheel texture with the pen set to this color.

Don't forget to make sure the element is set to "transparent" not "texture" and has a 0( Zero ) in attrib 1 and a 5( five ) in attrib 2 otherwise it won't work.

I'll poke around the GEN server and see if I can find the correct 3dz program. If not, I'm sure Mike has it.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4451637 - 12/03/18 06:27 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Found a bunch of 3dz Studio programs at the GEN, some of them even include the phrase "BMP" in their program name, which would lead you to believe that they work with BMP files.

Unfortunately that is fake news. I couldn't get any of them to open the PLANEB.3dz. They all show an error phrase like "Needs a valid .pcx file".


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4451640 - 12/03/18 06:31 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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MrJelly Offline
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I am far from being a photoshop expert and had all sorts of trouble when I tried to change those settings with the BMP file loaded in Photoshop 5.3.
If you get chance please have a look at my folder which is in a "SpitfireF-XXII MSBase.zip" in your folder on the server. It is one of your skins anyway wink


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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4451653 - 12/03/18 07:04 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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MrJelly Offline
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Fixed smile
It worked if I edited the palette in PShop with the PCX loaded to your values of

Red - 252
Green - 0
Blue - 252

Then I saved it as a BMP, loaded it in MSPaint and re-saved it as a 24-bit BMP.
The "PlaneCEX.TCP/PCX" had the same problem which I fixed using the same method


Fly EAW online at GameRanger: GameRanger Site

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Mark Twain: I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.

I am now of an age at which I no longer need to suffer fools gladly
#4451656 - 12/03/18 07:08 PM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Not sure whose this is, kinda looks like Skylark's work, but for sure, it's not mine. I just included it in the inventory after conversion to 1.6 and the addition of the improved 3dz wireframes.

Anyhow, I put the edited PLANEAEX.bmp and PLANECEX.bmp in your root folder Let me know if that fixes the problem.


Heck, even paranoids have enemies.
#4451742 - 12/04/18 04:44 AM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: Rotton50]  
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Brit44 'Aldo' Offline
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Ray, Jelly:
I commented the code with 24bit and aldo where I made changes so it would read bmps. The transparency is taken from an additional file if I remember correctly. The BMP format used is uncompressed, 24 bit, and the standard upside down BMP format. I thought I did a decent job commenting those changes to the code. It would have been the same as the version I shared with the code group.

I still have that code, let me know if you need me to look at something.

Alpha channels are always (some rare exceptions) taken from palette order.


TPA who TWI
"The 10th Amendment simply says that any powers that aren’t mentioned in the Constitution as belonging to the government belong to the states themselves."
#4451750 - 12/04/18 05:56 AM Re: Bitmap juggling [Re: MrJelly]  
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453Raafspitty Offline
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Is there an easier way of doing 3dz,s or are we stuck with it.Heres something I threw together with the 3D program I use for designs.

Attached Files WIP one.jpg
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