Thanks for the birthday wishes!

Cheyenne, thanks for the suggestion, I will do so.

My campaign made good progress yesterday, I feel like I've improved my start, but the truth will bear out over the coming turns. I altered my operational plans a bit and it seems to be paying off. The moves for AGS are still a bit of a mystery to me though. I have a plan, but not sure it's the best one. Again, we will see.

I'll get a report together somewhere along the next couple of turns. In the meantime I thought I would post this shot of the map with the troops removed. Nice map innit? (It's a mod by the way) If anyone is reading this thread, but not certain of some of the locations being mentioned, this could help. It only shows the area of operations of Army Group Center, but that's where most of my discussion has fallen. The start positions are the heavier red dashed line on the western side of the shot.

I still plan to do a report at some point. And it may be spectacular I'm on turn 3 (July 3) and still have a lot of moves to make. But the opportunities before me are exceptional. I still need to execute, and things may change, or not go according to plan. But holy smokes.....

Giving the grand campaign a second run has shown me that the Soviets will make a different set of moves, they aren't reacting in the same way as the first run. Which is great, because it always gives the player a different sort of challenge. It's not simply a matter of learning to solve the same puzzle every time. Not sure what I was expecting exactly, but I did think that their turn 2 would look more or less the same, at least. From there who knows as things are constantly changing. But where before I ran in to a brick wall, this time the seeds have been sown for a spectacular advance. Now to pull it off.

Keep us up-to-date!


Meanwhile, since I am a weak person, I bought both HOI4 and WitE friday lunch and have had a strategic-o-weekend.
From many hours in both I'd say WitE is the better gameplay experience (mostly AI related).

First try WitE was "what the hell is this? God I hate DBond"
Then I tried the Velikie tutorial no one likes but it did open a few eyes for me.
After that I failed nicely a few attempts at Road to Minsk, but not reading this thread would have made it so much worse.

So, thank you for your in-depth writing style DBond


Today I gave a hoot at Road to Leningrad (with Finland involved up north).
And it worked first on first attempt!

Sure, I'm not proficient with HQ units still - even knowing one can assign battalions all over the place and what not it becomes too much of a task for me when the crap hits the fan.
Also, I've read about those partisans and I saw them pop-up now and then a couple of turns into the mayhem but realised I had no idea how to catch them, destroy them or how to counter them at all.

Nevertheless I made it to the outskirts of Leningrad and got fairly intimidated by the sheer number of units in the town.
But since I got this far I just had to keep pounding them with what I had and learned a few things from that too.

To my somewhat surprised enjoyment I did manage to grab 1 hex a turn of this sweet target area and after heavy fighting there I was, in downtown Leningrad.

This will be my spare-time hours for this winter, that's for sure.
(and maybe by spring time I will understand what the hell is going on haha)

You captured Leningrad? First try? That's fantastic, congrats. I have yet to even try it and here you are standing as gubner of Leningrad. Holy smokes. If you can do that in your grand campaign, capture Leningrad in'41 you'll be off to an amazing start. I'm hoping to duplicate your feat shortly, but I can already see the gathering defenders as I approach. Very glad you're giving it a go. Of course I am not much ahead of you, but more than happy to share what I've learned. So any specific questions just fire away. Outstanding

OK, so I started run number 2 of the (260 point) grand campaign. Made three changes to the game options, setting CV at "Better CV Math", taking away the Soviet +1 Combat Bonus and locking the HQ for the Germans. I didn't know what to set it as for the Russians, and maybe it doesn't matter anyway since I am not controlling them. Locking the HQ means the program won't shuffle your supports units around, and since that is the latest addition to my play I want to have full control over where they are and where they go. I spent hours setting the first turn up, making Kluge OKH and Model replaced him at 4th Army. I burned up all my admin point by assigning construction battalions to Army Group and Army HQs. I also transferred several infantry divisions form panzer corps to infantry corps, all the while being careful not to overload any corps HQ. There's little you can do to eliminate the overload on AGC and AGS, but you can fix/prevent it at corps level. With only 30 admin points at the start, this is a process that will take several turns, as you transfer units from HQ to HQ.

I'd love to do a proper AAR, but it's a lot of work, so instead I'll just do some updates. I save at the start and end of every turn, so if anyone wants to know where certain units were, the route they took or the positions they ended the turn in it's not hard for me to get that info. I also apologize in advance for the unedited screens I will use. I'd rather have arrows, and text and colors and suchforth to paint the picture, but these will have to do.

First three turns June 22 to July 3

Army Group Center

I kicked the thing off with the standard double envelopment in AGC's sector. I've had lots of practice, it's the 7th time I've done it now so it went well. I sent Hoth's 3rd Panzergruppe (light green) more to the north than I did in my first run, which is his historical route. The idea was to center this northern thrust on Vitebsk, to hopefully continue on beyond and strike at Smolensk, as well as clear the way for the southernmost of my two rail spurs. I needed one of his panzer corps to help seal the north side of the Slonim pocket. Guderian's 2nd Panzergruppe (light blue) helped seal the Slonim pocket on turn 1, and then pressed on, splitting to take Minsk and heading for the Dnepr crossing at Zhlobin. They were held back a bit to keep them in supply range, so that they could get some during the logistics phase. In the first run they went all the way to the river, but were then out of gas and useless for turn 2. It's only a few hexes in some cases. Every time an HQ unit is moved I next check the supply details for the unit and make sure that HQ is within 25 hexes of a rail head. Movement points also play a part, and in areas with lots of lousy terrain, or during mud and snow, then 25 hexes may not longer be enough. But here in the open spaces of the western Soviet frontier the 25 hex limit works. The closer to the rail head the better of course, but it's smart to always check this every time you move one of your corps HQs. And then ensure all subordinate units take up positions within 5 hexes of that HQ. There will be times when I think the objective is worth the out of supply positions (two of which will soon follow in this AAR!), but on the whole I'll try to stick to this rule of thumb.

At this point I was of course focused on the Russian defense of Smolensk. In run 1, he made a stand, and the line of the Denpr was heavily reinforced. This time the enemy did not get nearly so many units in to position, and at the end of turn 2 my panzer groups sat resupplying around Misnk and west of Vibtesk, I could see the chance of a breakhrough near Orsha. If I could do this, it would allow my armor to run through the landbridge and either take Smolensk, or run the southern half of a pincer to encircle the defenders south of Vitebsk, and hopefully fulfill each of those objectives. Hoth's panzers to the north (Schmidt) would have to punch through Vibtesk, which isn't easy as they aren't ideally suited for this. But I had an two entire panzergruppen and their hour had arrived, As a result of this assessment, I kept the southern of Hoth's panzer corps near Minsk to give extra weight to the attack at Orsha, instead of sending it north to rejoin. I also cashiered the commander and replaced him with Hermann Balck. He is the Germans' best commander of mobile forces that starts without a command. As a Major General though it costs 26 admin points to appoint him to command a corps. That's a heavy price, but I can't resist this sort of move. The combat value of all of the divisions in the panzer corps instantly improved when he arrived. These are the tip of my schwerpunkt and he will put the finest edge on LVII Panzer Corps. Kuntzen was the man dismissed. I plan many more command changes, ruthless as I am, but the admin points keep you honest.

This shot introduces the dashing and capable General Balck, shows some of the positions at the end of turn 2, as well as the weak defense of the upper Dnepr. The Russian would strengthen it during his turn a bit, but it's a far thinner line than in my first grand campaign.



The plan to breach the position on the upper Dnepr worked to perfection. By holding my leading units back a bit to end turn 2 it enabled enough momentum to score a fantastic success on turn 3.




Using the full weight of Schmidt's XXXIX panzer corps we punched through Vitebsk and sealed the northern half of the pocket. Using XXXVII Panzer Corps (Lemelsen) we blew it open at Orsha. The newly installed Balck then lead LVII panzer corps through the breach, sealing the pocket. Schweppenburg's XXIV panzer corps them raced through to to capture Smolensk! It went off so spectacularly that I could now decomit Vietinghoff's XXXXVI panzer corps from this operation and send him south toward Gomel as part of my effort to seal the Priyat marshes and link up with Army Group South. A solid pocket has been formed, but the screenshot shows a glaring mistake I made. I have no unit in Orsha, blocking the railway there. Hopefully the ZoC of the units there will prevent the encircled troops from breaking out here. If the Soviets try to breakout by atttacking from both sides the ring may break. Could be a very bad mistake. I don't want to let this bag o' Ivan escape.

In all this operation far exceeded my expectations by turn 3. To be in Smolensk is a best case scenario. It's a calculated risk to leave these valuable forces in a spot that's out of supply, but I felt it had to be done. Another turn could have seen the Russian reinforce the position along the upper Dnepr in front of Smolensk. I believe these units can pull some supply from the city. But if I can hold the encirclement and keep Smolensk it was certainly worth the gamble. This is the reason all of those tank formations were put in AGC in the first place right?

Army Group North

In the north the singular overriding objective is Leningrad. But there are some key lesser objectives along the way. To take Leningrad not only denies it to the enemy as a population and production base, it gets Finland fully in the war. To have the Finns helping hold the northern part of your front allows you to strengthen other parts of it. Taking Leningrad is therefore the number on thing I want to accomplish in '41. I hope it isn't all, that I can also take Kiev and Rostov, Kharkov and Moscow. Even Sevastopol. But Leningrad is the key for me.

The attack was launched, holes were opened and Hoepner's 4th Panzergruppe was unleashed.AGN has the least armor and this is the only panzer group, which limits our flexibility for mobile operations One panzer corps, the XXXXI under Reinhardt was able to capture Riga on turn 1! Manstein's LVI Panzer Corps was sent toward Pskov. The rail repair teams were put to work and I am trying to take advantage of the lower Baltic zone repair cost by building a line Riga-Novgorod-Leningrad. And another to the south, though Polotsk and on to Vitebsk and Smolensk. All reinforcements from Germany (7 infantry divisions so far) were sent by train to this front, where they detrained and were split up among the various infantry corps, again careful not to overload the command capacity. AGN is the only Army Group that doesn't start seriously overloaded, so these troops were sent here partly for this reason, and also to add weight to the attack on Leningrad.

On turn 2, Manstein was able to capture Pskov, but low on fuel he would have to halt in this position for a turn. Pskov is an important rail hub in this sector so worth the effort. Reinhardt's corps, having taken Riga, then raced along the coast and captured Kallinn on turn 3! and still had the momentum to shuffle up against the defense southwest of Leningrad along the Narva river. A spectacular advance. The Riga rail line will support them and I am hoping to work toward capturing the east shore of Lake Ladoga while the infantry continue to move toward Leningrad. They are still several turns away, as this is quite a distance. In all we were able to take full advantage of the relatively weak Russian defense in this area. Evidence shows they are gathering near Velikiye Luki and this could pose a threat. The infantry continues to arrow northeast and some can be shifted here if necessary.

The screenshot shows Manstein halted in Pskov and Reinhardt standing on the Gulf of Finland! The strength of the defense at Leningrad is formidable, and growing. But they are running out of time to keep doing so.

Sorry, had some dad duties to attend to, and without further ado, the adventures of Army Group South....


Army Group South

The south. Honestly, I really don't know the best way to approach this front. It's complicated, with far-reaching objectives, a mix of German forces and satellites, has the slowest rail repair along with just a single FDB unit, and a terribly overloaded command. It's easy to say I want to take Kiev, Sevastopol, Rostov, Karkhov and Dnepropetrovsk, hereafter known as Dnepro. It's another thing to do it, as this will surely be the front that feels the most stretched, in all directions. The terrain in the Ukraine is wide open, but the enemy, logistics and river crossing after river crossing will test the limits of our ambition.

One immediate complication is much of the force at your disposal in the south begins the game frozen. The Romanians, the Slovakians and the Hungarians are not available and will all join in the coming turns. Some of the German motorized divisions are also frozen. AGS is the largest Army Group, in terms of troops, but still well short of the armored strength of Army Group Center. So how to crack it? I made Kiev the first real target. The plan was to drive behind Lvov, encircling the defenders, then pivot east to cross the Denpr at Cherkassy. If a bridgeghead could be won, the units across would wheel north and follow the right bank of the river to take Kiev from the rear, trapping the defenders I would expect to have gathered in front of the city.

The first move I made was to load the FDB here on to a train, and sent him on a ride to the Romanian border, ultimately to a town called Ugenny to begin construction of the rail spur. This single spur will support the entire AGS, or so I hope!

The attack opened with two infantry corps smashing open the front south of the Pripyat marshes. Kleist's 1st Panzergruppe has three panzer corps, and these were sent through the gap. One cut south past Tarnopol toward the Dnestr river. It could not close the remaining distance to the Romanian border, and the rail line there carried out much of the force defending Lvov. The pocket was closed the following turn, but by then many had escaped encirclement, and seemed to be sent to Zhitomir where the Russian was anchoring his defense, barring the direct path to Kiev. A second panzer corps was sent east to take Rovno, which was done. The third panzer corps went southeast past Tarnopol, then probed east toward Vinnista, capturing the city on turn 2!. The infantry near Lvov was sorted, with some re-assignments to cure corps-level overburdening. I attempted to use them to seal up Lvov, but not much progress really.

By turn 3 the Romanians had entered and breached their front to march on Odessa and protect the right flank of the panzer group. These troops aren't powerful, and seem to move much slower (all horse-drawn?), but they should be sufficient to take Odessa and then on to Nikolaev. Their air corps is also nice to have. With the Lvov pocket now sealed, the infantry set about trying to reduce it. It proved difficult, as the best Russian tank units are deployed in the south, but eventually Lvov was taken and the last few remnants of the forces trapped are being eliminated. I was able to send a few infantry corps east to support the armor, but the majority of it has been mired around Lvov.

The enemy's decision to stand at Zhitomir however was a mistake of the first order. The Russian has obviously underestimated the speed at which blitzkrieg moves. The ability of our panzer formations to cover ground, especially here in the Ukraine, is phenomenal. An amazing opportunity appeared. With some luck, Kleist's tanks could outflank the enemy's main line to the south, and take Kiev almost unopposed, negating the need to cross the Dnepr and accelerating our time table by weeks. The force near Rovno could try to strike at the northern flank of the enemy's line, hopefully preventing large-scale retreat in to the marshes (grrrr) and with good fortune breakthrough to form the northern arm of an encirclement together with the two panzer corps sent to take Kiev. That trap could not be completed yet, but we are laying the foundation. If the units threatened with entrapment don't react immediately, the chance for a tying a huge noose around the bulk of the Red Army in the south beckons.

Like the decision to go for Smolensk, here was a chance to capture a major prize at the earliest opportunity, and potentially ensnare a huge gob of enemy divisions, but would leave these advanced units in an out of supply location. Like Smolensk, I am banking on the ability to draw supplies from the city itself..These units also displaced a number of enemy airfields on their way to Kiev, capturing enormous quantities of fuel, including 31 tons at one particular airfield, so they should still be useful next turn, even out of supply range. The fact that my infantry lags so far behind is a problem, it will be hard to form a solid ring for a few more turns. I doubt the Red Army will sit and wait for it. But if I can take Kiev, and prevent a large migration in the the marshes it will be another spectacular success, though I fear I will have outrun my ability to make it the victory it could be. I love how this game continues to ask questions, and the player needs to continually adapt to changing events, threatening situations and golden opportunities.

Maximum momentum of attacks is best achieved by selecting from the units you are committing to the operation, the ones furthest from the point of attack to launch it. Doing so allows those units with decreasing MPs to force the front, and those with the most MPs to plunge through the breach. So that's what I did here too. Jumping off from positions near Vinnista, I broke through the weaker defenses south of the enemy's main line, and using both of the southern two panzer corps, Mackensen's III Panzer Corps and Kempf's XXXXVIII, outflanked the enemy's main effort and we drove straight in to Kiev, routing the relatively small force defending the city, and Kiev was captured! Wietersheim's XIV Panzer Corps moved to strike the northern end of the enemy's line along the southern boundary of the Pripyat marshes, but no breakthrough was possible by the end of turn 3. If these two forces can link up next turn, and if some additional help from the infantry arrives we could see a huge haul of prisoners. I doubt though my ability to do this in time. We will see.


In all a smashing success in the south. My infantry is too far behind, and we will soon outrun our rail lines. But to have Kiev in our hands already is awesome. To the east!


Here you see Kiev in our hands and the armor at the north edge. The mass of our infantry is still around Lvov however.





Here are the ground losses for both sides through July 3rd. The Russian has lost almost three quarters of a million men and 5100 tanks. I don't show it, but he has lost 4400 aircraft to our 70 or so. Additional encirclements promise another big haul if things break our way.






And here is the 'strategic view', showing the depths of our advances. All of our units appear as white and the Russian in gold. This seems a solid start

Keep this up. IT's fun to read!!!

Thanks Airdrop. Appreciate it. Going to get started on turn 4 shortly. I am really enjoying this game. Thanks for your help.

Now let's see if we can bag any more prisoners.

AGS seems a massive undertaking, I tried one of the "Road to" for AGS and got slapped in the face by the flrst wall of defenders even - this one is way different than AGC and AGN already from first turn and will be through the campaign with its vast distances.

Thanks for the extensive AAR style, I know they take considerable time to arrange too trying to describe so many events into something compact

Do you notice a difference having the HQ's locked?

Keen eye, yes. I said before that the south is like a blank canvas. It's wide open and there are many ways to approach it. The objectives pick themselves I think, but how you move your massive force is left to the imagination.



Thanks for saying so. Yes, these do take quite a bit of time, as you well know from your excellent AARs. I love talking about this stuff, and try to write about the sorts of things I would like to read myself. Comments like yours and Airdrop's go a,long way toward making me feel like it's worth it, and that others might be enjoying it. So thanks Oden.



Yes, though the only effect is to prevent the program from moving your support units around. With HQ locked, they stay where they are until you make a change.

One last question, not being used to all this HQ management
I usually keep HQ and Divs/Corps within 5 hexes, all good so far, but came to think this morning - I do move the combat units way off and throw them into battle and my "last" move is moving up the HQ to put all combat units in "blue" again.
Am I doing it all wrong, will they have to battle without HQ support battalions (it never shows really what support HQ gives in each fight, at least what I think)?
If so I guess assigning support to each combat unit would make a diff for my current style.
Else I need to move all units up and bring the HQ along before doing the combat stuff again, can be tedious with motorized units having pretty long legs.

Yes, you want to have the HQ within the five hexes for combat. So what I do is I move the first combat unit(s) up against the enemy unit I wish to attack Then the HQ gets moved closer to get within five hexes. HQs always have plenty of movement points to cover this for each of the divisions within the corps, so it doesn't have to be the HQ's final position, and can be exposed and uncovered since the enemy cannot move nor attack during my turn. Then the attack is made. This is important because you want the chance to have corps-level support units available for the attack, plus the attacking unit will benefit from the command ratings of the HQ.

So it's almost always move the combat unit first, then the HQ within range, then attack. Repeat through the entire corps with the ultimate goal of having all units end the turn in positions within five hexes of the HQ.

I'm hoping to do a report, maybe tonight. Thing is I am having so much fun orchestrating this invasion I don't feel inclined to stop and conjure up a report. I'm on turn 8 now, first week of August. Things are going well, but I'll save the details for the report I might get around to haha.

When I first got in to this game I wondered how I'd feel about the fact that everything must be moved one at a time. There are a hell of a lot of counters on the map. Headquarters, security units, railroad repair, cavalry brigades, panzer corps, infantry corps, airfields and more and for six nations with Germany, Finland, Italy, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia all under my control. With so much to consider, and so much to do, a typical turn is taking me around 3 hours to complete.

But you know what? I've really embraced the whole thing. Envisioning operations and then (hopefully!) carrying them out, all the while reacting to changing events, is a tremendously good time. What are my objectives? What route(s) should I take? What forces will I commit? How will I supply them? Where will I station my security units? Am I able to counter partisans, wherever they may appear? Where am I vulnerable? Where is the enemy weak? Where should my rails run? How should I distribute my support units? Do I give that StuG battalion to an infantry division, an armored division or a motorized division? Are there any broken command links? Any danger of isolation? Which squadrons will I assign as night fighters? Where will my heaviest artillery have the most telling effect?

And on top of actually making plans and executing them, there is a ton of information to be pored over. What new units have arrived? Which units are leaving for other fronts? How will I fill the gap? Should I replaced any commanders, and with who? Which units should I prioritize for resupply? Which need a rest? Where the hell did all of those enemy rifle divisions come from?!

It's the sort of mental obstacle course that I really get in to. To get in to a game like this you need to push through that early "what the hell am I supposed to do" phase that most good games like this throw at you. Folks will either give up, or saddle up and get on with it. This is an amazing war game, and very rewarding for those who persist with it. Or that's how I see it.

I still have a lot to learn, I've not mastered it as some mechanics remain unclear to me, and there are surely things I could or should be doing that I'm not even aware of. Like I saw in one report that four new squadrons have arrived in National Reserve. What should I do with them? And how would I do it? This game is one hell of a big onion.

I'm glad you are liking it. This is probably my favorite war game of all time just barely above War in the Pacific from matrix.

Thanks Airdrop! It really is an epic game. And aside from the compelling gameplay, it's amazing to me what two weeks of playing have meant to me in terms of understanding the war in the east. I'm re-reading Clark's Barbarossa The Russian-German Conflict 1941-45, and just playing the game and studying the map has enabled me to picture battles and movement with a much higher degree of clarity. I also just finished reading Bidermann's In Deadly Combat for the umpteenth time, but for the first time I can actually follow events geographically. I can 'see' it all so much better. When his 132nd Infanterie Division arrived as a replacement unit a few weeks in I noticed, and while I considered sending it on it's historic route, I instead found the conditions at the front demanded it go elsewhere.

(Did I already say all of this? I feel like I did, so sorry if I'm repeating myself. Gettin' old, you see)

Where's my man Cheyenne? I think when I wrote something earlier about how I wasn't prepared for this level of micro that he said to himself, neither am I!

I'd love to discuss operations with others. I joined the official boards but I'd rather talk to the folks here at SimHQ.

I have both comments and questions on that other WitE AAR thread but it looks so good I dare not post in it
Can we use this for comments on the big AAR thread or is it OK to post in that one?
(I almost feel it should be locked for DBond only to update )

Please feel free to post in that thread, especially if directly related, but even if not. Either thread is fine of course.

Just found out what "mud" means ingame.
Holy Batman - all units down to 1 ATK value and they can barely move.

Wait, you're in October already? What the hell?

November 20 now
But in all honesty, I don't think I play to the same detail you do and I have to admit it shows in my results, but as long as I'm having fun!

Failed most encirclements but got a good one between Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk - and then "Mud" happened so I couldn't finish them off!
But as Snow arrived I have now cleaned the pocket with no regret.

Leningrad is.. I don't have words for it, was so easy last time and now I have been fighting a huge block of enemy stacks(!) between Novgorod-Leningrad-Narva ever since I got up here.

This game is dangerous for ones weekend hours - I started yesterday just after dinner and as I looked up again I noticed time was past midnight at 2 am.
It's really hard to stop once you get going, always just one more opportunity or some unit needs saving.