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#4451022 - 11/29/18 05:49 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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VonS Offline
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Pleased to hear that it's possible to run WOFFue on AMD gents'...been thinking about trying it out on the dual FirePro 500 cards that are available in the mid-range Mac Pro (trash can style) model from 2013...will see about dipping my toes in this experiment and will post under the relevant Mac thread if I should go this route. Theoretically, it should improve frame rates by about 2 to 2.5x times over the Intel HD 4000 (integrated) card that is in my Mac Mini (2012). A jump from about 30 to 50-60 fps will be proof of a successful experiment.

Von S smile2

#4451026 - 11/29/18 05:59 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Hellshade Offline
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Has anyone gotten an RTX 2080 / 2080 ti? Very pricey, just curious if anyone as and what the WOFF UE results were.


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 4.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

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Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
1 Intel 240GB SSD drive (Scratch drive for videos)
MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080 Founders Edition
Corsair CX850M Power Supply
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#4451035 - 11/29/18 07:04 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: Redwolf]  
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JJJ65 Online cool
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Originally Posted by Redwolf
Originally Posted by JJJ65
Originally Posted by kksnowbear
...(I think) that both RX cards and HD cards have been individually reported as working with newer drivers.

I must concur - I report that Radeon HD card (HD7870) DOES NOT WORK with new drivers, at least from my individual experience wink .
Repeatedly tested with different driver versions and proved the problem was evidently caused by new drivers.
Can not continue with testing, however, because I have replaced my graphics card with GTX1060 6GB half a year ago.
(Win 7 64, Radeon HD7870, 16GB RAM, Intel i5, SATA HDD 1.5TB)


Oops, I think you misused a word here - concur means to agree.
I see the word being incorrectly used on the IL2 GBS forums at 1C too - perhaps by the very same person (?). Going to chalk it up as a non-native english language mistake. Just pointing it out so you know smile

Yep, that was due to my poor English. Thank you for correction.
BTW, I have not used that word on IL2 forum. Not discussing there.

#4451044 - 11/29/18 07:54 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: JJJ65]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Originally Posted by Redwolf
Originally Posted by JJJ65
Originally Posted by kksnowbear
...(I think) that both RX cards and HD cards have been individually reported as working with newer drivers.

I must concur - I report that Radeon HD card (HD7870) DOES NOT WORK with new drivers, at least from my individual experience wink .
Repeatedly tested with different driver versions and proved the problem was evidently caused by new drivers.
Can not continue with testing, however, because I have replaced my graphics card with GTX1060 6GB half a year ago.
(Win 7 64, Radeon HD7870, 16GB RAM, Intel i5, SATA HDD 1.5TB)


Oops, I think you misused a word here - concur means to agree.
I see the word being incorrectly used on the IL2 GBS forums at 1C too - perhaps by the very same person (?). Going to chalk it up as a non-native english language mistake. Just pointing it out so you know smile

Yep, that was due to my poor English. Thank you for correction.
BTW, I have not used that word on IL2 forum. Not discussing there.


And, correct me if I'm wrong...But, as you haven't tried an HD card since ~6 months, and there have been newer drivers released in that time...

...it's impossible for you to say conclusively that drivers since then won't work.

#4451054 - 11/29/18 08:47 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Panama Red Offline
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Hellshade:
My 2080 Ti works just fine with my 32" 4K G-sync monitor. thumbsup

With the 9900K CPU it is the first time in over 10 years playing OFF3 / WOFF / WOFF UE that I never drop below 60 FPS at any time or any place (Spring 2018 Flanders). bottles

Finally.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4451056 - 11/29/18 08:54 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: Panama Red]  
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Hellshade Offline
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Originally Posted by Panama Red
Hellshade:
My 2080 Ti works just fine with my 32" 4K G-sync monitor. thumbsup

With the 9900K CPU it is the first time in over 10 years playing OFF3 / WOFF / WOFF UE that I never drop below 60 FPS at any time or any place (Spring 2018 Flanders). bottles

Finally.


Including with time compression?


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 4.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
Click to reveal.. (warning)
Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
1 Intel 240GB SSD drive (Scratch drive for videos)
MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080 Founders Edition
Corsair CX850M Power Supply
Acer XB280HK 27" G-SYNC Monitor
Corsair RGB STRAFE MX Silent Keyboard
Windows 10 Home 64 bit

#4451060 - 11/29/18 09:09 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Panama Red Offline
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My time compression is better, but at 12X low over the front in Flanders Spring 1918, it can still drop to 15 FPS, but those numbers are not as common as they were in the past.

It is the CPU that really gives the FPS a boost versus the GPU even with the 32" 4K monitor.

If AnKor ever succeeds in converting us to DX11, then the GPU will become supreme, but under DX9, it's still the CPU that is supreme for WOFF & WOTR.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4451061 - 11/29/18 09:11 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: Panama Red]  
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AceMedic88 Offline
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Panama which monitor do you have?


I got fired as the door man at a sperm bank.
Apparently it's in poor taste to tell leaving customers "Thanks for coming."

Former U.S. Army Medic - SGT.
#4451063 - 11/29/18 09:18 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Panama Red Offline
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AceMedic88:
Acer Predator XB32HK. It's the only 32" 4K G-sync monitor currently being made and it works great for all my flight games.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4451065 - 11/29/18 09:36 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: Panama Red]  
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Hellshade Offline
Hellshade
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Originally Posted by Panama Red
My time compression is better, but at 12X low over the front in Flanders Spring 1918, it can still drop to 15 FPS, but those numbers are not as common as they were in the past.

It is the CPU that really gives the FPS a boost versus the GPU even with the 32" 4K monitor.

If AnKor ever succeeds in converting us to DX11, then the GPU will become supreme, but under DX9, it's still the CPU that is supreme for WOFF & WOTR.



Currently running a 7700k which has a higher base clock speed than the 9900k does, but fewer cpu cores. Since WOFF UE uses a single core, am I not better off just staying with the 7700k in this instance?


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 4.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
Click to reveal.. (warning)
Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
1 Intel 240GB SSD drive (Scratch drive for videos)
MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080 Founders Edition
Corsair CX850M Power Supply
Acer XB280HK 27" G-SYNC Monitor
Corsair RGB STRAFE MX Silent Keyboard
Windows 10 Home 64 bit

#4451068 - 11/29/18 09:48 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Panama Red Offline
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I went from a 7700K on my last game PC to a 9900K on my new game PC and the difference is very apparent in the game even though I had my 7700K overclocked to 4.5 GHz.

The difference is all the z390 board manufactures auto overclock straight from the factory with MCE (Multi-Core Enhancement) so the lowest the 9900K goes is 4.7 GHz (24/7) when under load and boost up to 5.0 GHz when needed with 2 cores.

The only way you can get all the z390 motherboards to drop to Intel's normal Turbo boost of 100 seconds max per core (with 3.6 GHZ base versus 4.7 GHz base) is by turning OFF the MCE, with makes little sense since it's really nice to have all the extra power without using any more Vcore than the 7700K uses normally too (1.200 V).

This is why the 9900K is so much nicer than my old OC'ed 7700K CPU.



CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4451075 - 11/29/18 10:30 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Hellshade Offline
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That makes sense, PR. Thanks for the info!


Flying Wings Over Flanders Fields Ultimate Edition 4.x
videos at www.youtube.com/hellshade68

System Specs
Click to reveal.. (warning)
Intel i7 6700K OC 4.6 Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 Liquid Cooler
16 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 RAM
2 x EVO 850 1TB SSD Drives (OS & Games)
1 Intel 240GB SSD drive (Scratch drive for videos)
MSI Z170 GAMER M7 Motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080 Founders Edition
Corsair CX850M Power Supply
Acer XB280HK 27" G-SYNC Monitor
Corsair RGB STRAFE MX Silent Keyboard
Windows 10 Home 64 bit

#4451107 - 11/30/18 04:07 AM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: Panama Red]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by Panama Red
I went from a 7700K on my last game PC to a 9900K on my new game PC and the difference is very apparent in the game even though I had my 7700K overclocked to 4.5 GHz.

The difference is all the z390 board manufactures auto overclock straight from the factory with MCE (Multi-Core Enhancement) so the lowest the 9900K goes is 4.7 GHz (24/7) when under load and boost up to 5.0 GHz when needed with 2 cores.

The only way you can get all the z390 motherboards to drop to Intel's normal Turbo boost of 100 seconds max per core (with 3.6 GHZ base versus 4.7 GHz base) is by turning OFF the MCE, with makes little sense since it's really nice to have all the extra power without using any more Vcore than the 7700K uses normally too (1.200 V).

This is why the 9900K is so much nicer than my old OC'ed 7700K CPU.



But MCE has been around since 2012 in various names by different companies...and has been available on motherboards/chipsets for CPUs going at least as far back as Ivy Bridge, to include the 7700k. Pretty sure it is optional now as it was then.

Basically overclocking for people who don't understand overclocking. Maybe easier, but like all "automatic" BIOS overclocking, not necessarily better than a properly applied "manual" overclock. (I'm sure there's a reason it can be turned off, and that reason appears to be higher voltage than needed and the resulting thermal issues...there's a lot of discussion about this online. It seems that many experienced overclockers turn MCE off to get better thermals at the same or better speeds.)

Incidentally, the board listed in Hellshade's profile (MSI Z170 GAMING M7) supports MCE on CPUs back to Skylake, including the 7700k he's using. I suspect all performance boards that support those CPUs feature some form of MCE, albeit by different names perhaps, meaning your prior 7700k setup probably had it too. Some have it turned on by default, some have it off. And although I'm not familiar with the details right off, I would imagine the 7700K's higher base speed would mean that it's MCE will follow (i.e., might be higher than the 9900k, as Hellshade asked about). Again, that's not based on first hand experience but it would make sense.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 11/30/18 12:16 PM.
#4451156 - 11/30/18 01:01 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Panama Red Offline
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Sure his higher base clock speed for the 7700K is 4.2 GHz under MCE, but the higher base clock speed for the 9900K id 4.7 GHz which is still higher then his 4.5 GHz Turbo'ed where the 9900K can still Turbo up to 5.0 GHz.

After a lot of reading, watch the YouTube videos and testing with various software, my 9900K with MCE on auto maxes at 72 C (52 C with WOFF) and 1.199 volts Vcore.

And that is not just hypothetical kksnowbear, it reality no matter what you may "guess" about the 9900K chip and Asus Z390-E motherboard.

Yes, but everything I have read (and personally tested) about turning off MCE is for people who are tying to achieve a higher OC, but the down side of that is the lower base clock and less Turbo time since Intel's turbo lasts less than 100 seconds before dropping back to base. Where with the MCE enabled, it bring the base up to the minimum turbo, for 24 hours / 7 days a week even when you stress test the CPU.

So bottom line is the stock 9900K with MCE enabled is still way better than the OC'ed 7700K with MCE enabled, that is from REAL WORLD testing and WOFF gaming, not just reading or watching Youtube.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4451157 - 11/30/18 01:10 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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There are plenty of real world examples where experienced overclockers turn MCE off due to the increased heat.

Your "reality" doesn't dictate what happens in the entire world. The real-world benefit in-game of that overclock is about 2%, and that's hardly what I'd call "way better". More likely, you spend a lot of money on stuff, therefore it must be 'way better'. Plenty of that going around, too.

Just because I can't afford to spend stupid amounts of money on the latest and greatest hardware like some people can, doesn't change that the facts are out there.

#4451161 - 11/30/18 01:37 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Panama Red Offline
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REAL WORLD is actual testing and playing, not hypothetical and I do that on all my PC when I buy them, plus I own the games unlike you who will just talk about them (WOTR) with out buying them.

I do not ask you how you spend your money, so why are you asking me how I spend my money, are you jealous because I chose to spend my hobby money on my game PC and you don't ???

I'm not worried about getting the best OC I can on the 9900K, because "straight out of the box", it plays WOFF above 60 FPS ALL THE TIME since I started playing over 10 years ago.

Yes, I tried OC'ing the 9900K, but there was not benefit in FPS in WOFF, but a huge jump in Vcore (above 1.325 v), so I returned it to stock and it still keeps WOFF 100% above 60 FPS on my 32" 4K monitor.

And yes, to counter your "reading" the average Vcore I have found in reading other articles and Youtubes is ~ 1.200 v for Vcore at stock speeds with MCE enabled, which is the same at the Z170 board with the older 7700K at stock and MCE enabled.



P.S. the 2% you talk about are testing with games that are GPU intensive, not CPY intensive like WOFF and WOTR (but then you would not know about WOTR since you only talk about it but have not bought it)



CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4451164 - 11/30/18 01:46 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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So you're right...i guess the ridiculous price for a 9900 set up is totally worth maybe 5% performance in real games, as is factually documented online if one cares to look.

One reviewer put it succinctly; the 9900k is worth it, if cost is no object. And that's not a comment on you or how you choose to spend...it's a comment on the reality that most people can't afford that kind of cost when the benefit is on the order of 5%.

#4451166 - 11/30/18 01:49 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Panama Red Offline
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You are again talking about GPU games they have testing against (and yes, I read the same articles), but not CPU games like WOFF and WOTR games.

Like I said to Hellshade, when AnKor makes this a DX11 game, it will be GPU intensive and the CPU will not matter as much, but until then, WOFF and WOTR (which you do not own, but talk about) are CPU intensive.

Ridiculous is in the eye of the beholder. Just because you do not want a faster CPU does not make it so I do not want a faster CPU.


CPU = i9 9900K, GPU = RTX 2080 Ti, Monitor = 32" 4K G-sync
#4451518 - 12/03/18 02:11 AM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Hentzau Offline
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I've been silently following WOFF for what seems like years & years & years. I think this is the year I finally get a video card and PC that I can play it on, if only I can find the time. lol

#4451566 - 12/03/18 12:27 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: Hentzau]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by Hentzau
I've been silently following WOFF for what seems like years & years & years. I think this is the year I finally get a video card and PC that I can play it on, if only I can find the time. lol


Well, you're in luck...thanks to Panama Red's diligence and expertise, we now know exactly what is needed for users to finally be able to get 60FPS steady from the sim, from his earlier post in this same thread:

Originally Posted by Panama Red
My 2080 Ti works just fine with my 32" 4K G-sync monitor. thumbsup

With the 9900K CPU it is the first time in over 10 years playing OFF3 / WOFF / WOFF UE that I never drop below 60 FPS at any time or any place (Spring 2018 Flanders). bottles

Finally.


Unfortunately, you'll need a big budget: The CPU alone is over $550...and the GPU? That's around $1200. Plus, you'll obviously need one of the latest Z390 motherboards, so that's another $200-300 or so. And RAM if you don't already have DDR4 you can reuse. Good news, though you can find 16G DDR4 for only $100...and, you might be able to reuse your drives, depending on what else you have. You'll need an OS license, unless you already have a Windows 10 retail license - since OEM licenses are technically bound to one PC and can't be used on another, and since Microcosft got to Intel, new hardware requires Windows 10 (even if you're happy with W7, for example)...so that'll be around $100...

So, you should be able to get in the door for around $2200. It being the holiday season, maybe you can catch sale prices.

Sure, you can probably get a system that will run most any other game at 60 FPS for about one third of that...but, just as PR said:

Originally Posted by Panama Red
You are again talking about GPU games they have testing against (and yes, I read the same articles), but not CPU games like WOFF and WOTR games.


I guess it's true; if you want top-notch performance, you have to be prepared to "bring the bank" biggrin biggrin biggrin

In any event, best of luck to you smile

Last edited by kksnowbear; 12/03/18 12:29 PM.
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