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#4449508 - 11/19/18 08:50 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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I am talking about AMD drivers dated March 2017 and newer. Personally tested on Radeon HD7870 and confirmed by other Radeon HD users.

#4449563 - 11/20/18 05:04 AM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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One son is using the my old HD4890 and one son the HD7970, both playing warfront simulation games always from Steam sale and they are not the most modern games, I bet all DirectX9 maybe even DX8 and I never hear they have problems in playing any of these games after an Vcard update by MS Windows, which is generated automatic because of safety.
Most problems are what I think caused by wrong installation, not doing a clean install, or even the wrong driver is selected.

edit: Yep one problem because windows was installing the iGPU driver and not the external.

Last edited by dutch; 11/20/18 05:06 AM.
#4449566 - 11/20/18 05:37 AM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: dutch]  
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Originally Posted by dutch
One son is using the my old HD4890 and one son the HD7970, both playing warfront simulation games always from Steam sale and they are not the most modern games, I bet all DirectX9 maybe even DX8 and I never hear they have problems in playing any of these games after an Vcard update by MS Windows, which is generated automatic because of safety.
Most problems are what I think caused by wrong installation, not doing a clean install, or even the wrong driver is selected.

edit: Yep one problem because windows was installing the iGPU driver and not the external.

Let them try WOFF UE and then report. I am talking only about combo WOFF UE + Radeon HD cards + new graphics drivers.

#4449623 - 11/20/18 02:08 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Originally Posted by dutch
One son is using the my old HD4890 and one son the HD7970, both playing warfront simulation games always from Steam sale and they are not the most modern games, I bet all DirectX9 maybe even DX8 and I never hear they have problems in playing any of these games after an Vcard update by MS Windows, which is generated automatic because of safety.
Most problems are what I think caused by wrong installation, not doing a clean install, or even the wrong driver is selected.

edit: Yep one problem because windows was installing the iGPU driver and not the external.

Let them try WOFF UE and then report. I am talking only about combo WOFF UE + Radeon HD cards + new graphics drivers.


Pretty sure that BirdDogICT identified, quite some time ago, that he was using the drivers you indicate and wasn't having this problem:

http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...und-after-starting-a-mission#Post4394806

In fact, he reported using two different drivers, both from late 2017, without problems. He reported meeting all the conditions you list, and says his runs fine. And I think there are others, too - I haven't looked. But even if not, the one instance is all that's required to disprove the theory. Unless I'm missing something (always possible).


Last edited by kksnowbear; 11/20/18 02:09 PM.
#4449671 - 11/20/18 07:16 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Read this and this posts.
But, anyway, it is everyones free decision. Just do not tell me I did not warn you.

Last edited by JJJ65; 11/20/18 07:22 PM.
#4449672 - 11/20/18 07:20 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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I already read that thread, thanks - it's the exact same one I linked above. And as far as I can see, there's nothing in that thread that contradicts what I said. BirdDogICT said he's using drivers after the date you gave, on a Radeon HD card, and running WOFF UE without problems. He says he updated, too and that worked as well. I don't find anything he's posted since to change that.


"FWIW, I'm running with 17.11.3 drivers and not experiencing any problems."

"JJJ65, after reading your post, I updated to 17.12.1, and am not having any problems. Go figure."


Perhaps you should read the thread. Are you seeing something I'm not?

Last edited by kksnowbear; 11/20/18 07:23 PM.
#4449673 - 11/20/18 07:24 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Just continue reading next posts wink

Quote
You, Sir, are a scholar and a saint! The old drivers did the trick! Now I can spend the holidays furiously installing drivers to see how current I can get before it breaks again.

A big Thank you to all for your help!

Quote
Well, that went quicker than expected. 17.5.2 is the most current driver that works for me. thumbsup


#4449674 - 11/20/18 07:26 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Yes, I've already read those too - and the point remains: If there's even one case where someone is able to do it without a problem, then the theory that the driver is causing the problem is simply invalid. If the driver (alone) was solely what's causing the issue, then no one would be able to use the driver without the problem.

EDIT: One person saying they had to revert drivers doesn't prove that the driver alone is the problem. However, one person saying it works does prove it absolutely cannot be the driver alone causing the problem.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 11/20/18 07:29 PM.
#4449675 - 11/20/18 07:28 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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I do not see what Radeon card BirdDogICT uses. I am talking about Radeon HD, HD7870 to be precise.

#4449676 - 11/20/18 07:31 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
I do not see what Radeon card BirdDogICT uses. I am talking about Radeon HD, HD7870 to be precise.


I think you are correct here - in this thread, anyway, he doesn't say specifically. However, I am fairly certain he does use an AMD Radeon HD card. If I can find where, I'll post to show you. Again, I could be mistaken.


Here: http://SimHQ.com/forum/ubbthreads.p...uttering-when-looking-around#Post3889129

Of course, I do recognize this was a long time ago - but I'm still sure he's a pretty avid AMD user and has been for a long time. Not as if he'd be using AMD drivers with an Nvidia card.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 11/20/18 08:01 PM.
#4449683 - 11/20/18 08:03 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Originally Posted by dutch
One son is using the my old HD4890 and one son the HD7970, both playing warfront simulation games always from Steam sale and they are not the most modern games, I bet all DirectX9 maybe even DX8 and I never hear they have problems in playing any of these games after an Vcard update by MS Windows, which is generated automatic because of safety.
Most problems are what I think caused by wrong installation, not doing a clean install, or even the wrong driver is selected.

edit: Yep one problem because windows was installing the iGPU driver and not the external.

Let them try WOFF UE and then report. I am talking only about combo WOFF UE + Radeon HD cards + new graphics drivers.


If it helpful to you, I could give this a try, only not this weekend, because of my other activities that has something to do with freinds and lot of wine or beer.
What driver nr and were did you download this, before we get an discussion on that.

Edit: doing something better, we let Windows update install the driver, after a complete driver wipeout, so we have both the same version and from the same source.


Last edited by dutch; 11/20/18 08:38 PM.
#4449706 - 11/20/18 10:46 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Just a little heads-up from the guy with the driver problem in the thread that was quoted above: I haven't had the slightest problem with WOFF since back then and I'm currently running v. 18.7.1 (RX 470, though, not an HD card). Around January this year, AMD supposedly fixed some bugs relating to DX9 games which at least in my case seems to have helped. Gotta admit, though, that I still get antsy with every new driver update.

#4449718 - 11/20/18 11:44 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: Trelawney]  
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Originally Posted by Trelawney
Just a little heads-up from the guy with the driver problem in the thread that was quoted above: I haven't had the slightest problem with WOFF since back then and I'm currently running v. 18.7.1 (RX 470, though, not an HD card). Around January this year, AMD supposedly fixed some bugs relating to DX9 games which at least in my case seems to have helped. Gotta admit, though, that I still get antsy with every new driver update.


Every driver released by ANY hardware vendor has the potential to cause problems and should make anyone antsy. Back in the day, the convention was if an update was available, you used it. Not so any more. Nowadays, I NEVER let Windows update ANY hardware driver, and I will generally only update a driver if I have a problem and studying the driver (release notes etc) tells me it's safe and may help solve my issue.

That said, however, I think all this finger-pointing about AMD is ill-advised. Many people here are just parroting words they've seen without understanding the circumstances. "AMD drivers won't work with WOFF!!!" when (I think) that both RX cards and HD cards have been individually reported as working with newer drivers. (And, as some may or may not know, the RX 470/480/570/580 are all essentially the same card/same GPU, even though AMD tried a fast one by renaming Ellesmere GPU in the 400 cards to "Polaris" in the 500s...so it's not likely the driver works with one but not the other).

Whatever the problem was back in late 2017 may have been limited to exactly that; there are too many examples here of people making it work to say AMD drivers don't work as a blanket statement. OBD comes here saying the drivers don't work and they're not supporting it, and forever more that's all you hear. Not only does this make no technical sense (given the factual evidence), it also makes no business sense to effectively scare away anyone using AMD hardware, thereby losing their support (i.e., 'money') which is always being clamored for.

#4449745 - 11/21/18 03:14 AM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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My AMD Radeon RX580 came in the mail Saturday. I couldn't justify the price given my current budget, so I took a risk and bought a used one off of eBay. Worse, it was that cheap because it had previously been used for Etherium mining. Worse still, when it came it was in the original package with a shipping label stuck on the store box. That package was not made for shipping, and was pretty hammered. Bottom line: Once I got it installed it works perfectly. No muss, no fuss, no hunting down new (or old) drivers. It's a pretty amazing card, especially for the price I paid. WOFF runs great, and seems to be a lot smoother. I'm happy. No complaints.

At that price I even thought about getting a second one, but I checked and not one of the four games I play is good with CrossFire, so I'm saving for a dedicated sound card instead.


Some people are born stupid. I've had to work hard my whole life to get this way. I'm proud of the job I've done
#4449758 - 11/21/18 07:09 AM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
...(I think) that both RX cards and HD cards have been individually reported as working with newer drivers.

I must concur - I report that Radeon HD card (HD7870) DOES NOT WORK with new drivers, at least from my individual experience wink .
Repeatedly tested with different driver versions and proved the problem was evidently caused by new drivers.
Can not continue with testing, however, because I have replaced my graphics card with GTX1060 6GB half a year ago.
(Win 7 64, Radeon HD7870, 16GB RAM, Intel i5, SATA HDD 1.5TB)

#4450940 - 11/29/18 03:38 AM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Sorry I can't verify that the HD7870 works with the most recent drivers...my old HD7870 burned up during my early conversion to Windows 10. Didn't notice that the drivers had mucked up the fan control until it was too late.

FWIW, my current card is a 8mB RX480. Works great.


There are no accidents and no fatal flaws in the machines; there are only pilots with the wrong stuff.

— Tom Wolfe, The Right Stuff,1979.
#4450959 - 11/29/18 08:21 AM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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I wouldn;t be getting too excited about a graphics card, anything that's 2-4GB with a decent bus speed is fine. Look seriously into an outstanding CPU and you'll be golden.


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst schwer wie stahl sein.
#4451006 - 11/29/18 04:29 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Yes, the RX470 is fine with the latest drivers too (you guys had me panicking -- but absolutely no problems here with them (idk, maybe the whole Radeon doesn't work properly with this sim perhaps outta be put to rest? - suppose HD needs more of a confirmation i guess (??)).

Last edited by Redwolf; 11/29/18 04:32 PM.
#4451010 - 11/29/18 04:39 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: JJJ65]  
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Originally Posted by JJJ65
Originally Posted by kksnowbear
...(I think) that both RX cards and HD cards have been individually reported as working with newer drivers.

I must concur - I report that Radeon HD card (HD7870) DOES NOT WORK with new drivers, at least from my individual experience wink .
Repeatedly tested with different driver versions and proved the problem was evidently caused by new drivers.
Can not continue with testing, however, because I have replaced my graphics card with GTX1060 6GB half a year ago.
(Win 7 64, Radeon HD7870, 16GB RAM, Intel i5, SATA HDD 1.5TB)


Oops, I think you misused a word here - concur means to agree.
I see the word being incorrectly used on the IL2 GBS forums at 1C too - perhaps by the very same person (?). Going to chalk it up as a non-native english language mistake. Just pointing it out so you know smile

#4451015 - 11/29/18 05:04 PM Re: Opinions needed for next graphics card. [Re: OvStachel]  
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Originally Posted by Redwolf
Originally Posted by JJJ65
Originally Posted by kksnowbear
...(I think) that both RX cards and HD cards have been individually reported as working with newer drivers.

I must concur - I report that Radeon HD card (HD7870) DOES NOT WORK with new drivers, at least from my individual experience wink .
Repeatedly tested with different driver versions and proved the problem was evidently caused by new drivers.
Can not continue with testing, however, because I have replaced my graphics card with GTX1060 6GB half a year ago.
(Win 7 64, Radeon HD7870, 16GB RAM, Intel i5, SATA HDD 1.5TB)


Oops, I think you misused a word here - concur means to agree.
I see the word being incorrectly used on the IL2 GBS forums at 1C too - perhaps by the very same person (?). Going to chalk it up as a non-native english language mistake. Just pointing it out so you know smile



I noticed that, too - but thought he was concurring with the "individual" part (as evidenced by the phrase "individual experience" later in the same sentence).

Either way, here's the thing: If newer cards (RX) work with newer drivers, and (as it seems) older cards work with older drivers...OBD isn't doing themselves any favors by condoning/endorsing this ongoing (and misguided) blather that "AMD cards won't work with WOFF". They could be a lot more specific, specifying the findings as they are updated, and (seems to me) make it clear that *every* AMD user can run this sim - with appropriate drivers, of course.

The way it's been handled so far, AMD is being regarded as a turd in the punchbowl, and thus anyone who uses their cards is just as likely as not to pass on the sim entirely, because they've gotten the wrong impression.

Right here in this very thread it's being misrepresented, if you read back. At least JJJ did try to say, at one point, that 'certain' AMD cards (eg HD series) had problems with newer drivers, at least in his own case. What he did not do was say "AMD cards might not work unless AMD fixes their drivers" - but it has certainly been stated around here, more than once, of late. And another poster here asked for specifics about the issue, but so far there's been no official, accurately informed response.

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