Nobody is making any statements to that effect. Sworn? Where? You don't have to pay anything, you are free to decide on any purchase.

You're just trying to stir the pot. If the shoe fits, wear it.

You are incorrect. There were no shady dealings. The inclusion of V1.1 was not formally agreed to by TFC/ED until just last week. You got to purchase V1.1 when it was first released. It is certainly reasonable to expect that any software title will have a lower price several months after release. You're getting bent out of shape over nothing. Nobody ripped you off. It was your choice to purchase the upgrade when you did.

What was TFC/ED suppose to do in this circumstance? When they found out that Gold was being advertised that it came with V1.1 they took action and eventually reached an agreement with Evolved at the eleventh hour. If there is any shady dealings here it is Evolved who did not have the rights to the V1.1 content when they first started promoting the product. TFC/ED acted appropriately in this situation.

So, 249th_Jeevz, based on this information, what do you think TFC/ED should have done? How would you have handled the situation? Should they refund a portion of the price paid to all the people who purchased V1.1 online as a result of Ubi Soft and Evolved making a deal to sell something that neither of them originally had the rights to sell?

Believe it, because it is true.

I have confirmed that the deal between TFC/Evolved was indeed signed LAST WEEK. It is rather obvious, and my speculation that Evolved had this thing mastered and ready to go before they had the rights to V1.1. Since they mastered it poorly with a separate disk containing the V1.1 content, it is also apparent that they did not have TFC/ED's assistance to produce an integrated installation routine. They just took the upgrade and put it on a disk. The reports that people are having to get new Starforce codes makes it rather obvious that this was an uncoordinated process on the part of Evolved.

They also used the V1.01 version of Lock On on the other disk which shows that Ubi provided them that master since a V1.02 integrated master does not exist.

And those two responses are exactly why I believe ED. They just make sense.

First off, I have refrained from personal attacks in this thread so I'll kindly ask you to remove the line calling me a fool.

It was my choice to purchase the upgrade when I did as I was informed that, contrary to the pictures for Lock-On gold, it would not contain the 1.1 content*. Had I been informed that I could purchase a hard copy of the Gold version containing the 1.1 content from a local store I would have, even if it involved waiting. I stated previously, in the post you quoted, that I was aware of the gold version when I purchased the upgrade, I even went so far as to follow the threads discussing whether or not it had 1.1 content. I did my research, unfortunatly the information you presented to us was incorrect^. So I went the route of spending more money by ordering the CD from Naturalpoint, now Lock-On gold comes out at a cheaper price point and lo-and-freakin-behold, there's 1.1. Maybe not shady but certainly easy to interpret it that way.

And yes, I am "stirring the pot" on this as I think it's worth stirring. This is a discussion forum and this is a topic worth discussing. If it gets out of hand I can promise you I will not be the one responsible, I can disagree and voice my complaints rationally and without resorting to name-calling.

* http://forum.lockon.ru/showpost.php?p=61292&postcount=19
^ http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/38610606/m/1491073713

Just wondering, would be glad if you could answer/speculate (but understand if you cannot), was there any chance that (and what would have happened if) ED chose not to allow Evolved to use 1.1 ?

Lock-on Gold with 1.1 features has been advertised for months. Maybe there was no "final" deal struck at that time (like exactly how many copies, release date, etc.) but I would bet dollars that the plan since day one was to release 1.1 as part of a "Gold" package.

What's the big deal though? Software prices tend to drop over time.

Because a $10 difference could affect whether or not my kids go to college...........

the new box is purdy

I have no idea. I would imagine that if Evolved released it with content for which they did not have rights that there would be legal action, but I don't know for sure.

You're overreacting, but I'll apologize for the implication that you are a fool, but you should take back your statement that implies that TFC/ED fooled you. Your postings imply that they were being dishonest when it is now apparent they had nothing to do with the initial claims by Evolved that V1.1 was included in the product.

I did not report anything incorrectly to you or anyone else. I stated previously that I was told, at the time, that Evolved did NOT have the rights to V1.1. They did not have those rights until an agreement was reached last week. Evolved and Ubi Soft screwed-up by making the incorrect assumption that they had the rights to V1.1.. Once TFC/Eagle informed them that they did not have rights then a deal was worked out after the fact. You seem to maintain that TFC/ED was behind this product being created, they were not. They only made it legal at the eleventh hour.

It was your decision to by the V1.1 upgrade at the price you paid. Stop complaining about it now that the circumstances have changed. Circumstances that were beyone TFC/ED's control at the time you and everyone else purchased the V1.1 upgrade.

I'll ask you again, since you seem to have ignored my first request, what do you think TFC/ED should have done in this situation now that the details are known?

Are you paying attention? TFC/Eagle were not a party to V1.1 being part of this Lock On: Gold product until AFTER Evolved and Ubi cut a deal. The advertising that stated V1.1 was included was never sanctioned or approved by TFC/ED. It was only after TFC/ED contacted Evolved to inform them of the rights violation that an agreement was worked out between them.

When/How did Evolved get their installer? They have a unique one as it has things like the seasons pack, which is not a part of the web installer (it is available for download but as a seperate file), and the LOD and Stutter fixes which are not a part of the Naturalpoint installer. Somehow they got an installer which was updated to those fixes in time to get it pressed and onto store shelves. Did they get their installer 1 week ago?

Contents of LO:Gold 1.1 Disc here: http://forum.lockon.ru/showpost.php?p=91293&postcount=65

As far as the answer to your "what would you do?" question, I don't know, maybe not gotten into the situtation in the first place or straightened the whole thing out as soon as Evolved started posting those pictures. Look, they have my money, I don't want it back, I've gotten the entertainment value out of it, like I said before maybe it isn't shady (without being directly involved I can't know) but it's easily interpreted that way. If they weren't being completely honest, fine. If they were then they need to get a working PR system in place.

You're not really paying attention here, are you?

How in hell could they have avoided getting into the situation? Evolved and Ubi cut a deal without TFC/ED's knowledge. As for "straighening it out", isn't that what they eventual accomplished with the deal struck last week? Go ahead and try to contact Evolved Games. Go ahead. Go to their website and note the extensive opportunities provided to contact them. As soon at this situation was brought to TFC/ED's attention by Matt Wagner and myself they attempted to contact Evolved. Eventually they were able to reach them. But I'm betting it took awhile as even the Ubi Soft office that TFC/ED contacted origially knew nothing of the deal. I even went to Evolved website and used their internal web mail system to ask them about the Gold product. I NEVER received a reply. I'm betting that there is no way to receive tech or customer support from Evolved Games to users of Lock On: Gold.

So, you are a manager at TFC/ED and you find out that someone is advertising a Lock On product that contains your proprietary add on content. You learn that your former publisher cut a deal with this third-party with the incorrect assumption that V1.1 was included. What do you do next? How do you fix the problem when you were never a party to the original deal in the first place?

I don't have a copy of Lock On Gold, do you? I can't comment on where Evolved got their master of the 1.1 upgrade. The disk that contains Lock On is the V1.01 master that Ubi Soft has in their archive and is currently in the original Lock On boxes published by Ubi Soft.

The one thing I will agree with you on is that TFC/ED needs a better method of communications with the online community.

ED should do what every red blooded american company does and sue the livin **** out of UBI and Evolved. They strike a deal one week later because they had no other choice but the take a butt ramming from UBI and Evolved. If ED was my company and someone stole my code without asking, I'd be going to court and sue for all the profit off of the sale for 1.1. When I win, the dudes that stole my propertey would be paying for my laywer too.

I suspect that reaching an agreement in the end was the best course of action for all parties. A shame that NaturalPoint is put in an awkward postition by these circumstances as well. This would have been a much bigger problem for everyone had that Gold product been release earlier and without TFC/ED's final approval.

Sure the assumptive approach and poor planning used by Ubi and Evolved was poor business, but I don't think any of us are surprised in the least as this seems to be happening all the time in the industry. It's a pity that the product didn't have an integrated installation routine or any real QA or testing.

My never getting into the situation comment was meant to address steps further back in the Lock-On evolution, I'm not going to get into it here as it's not on topic and it's sure to start more drama, which is already in abundant supply on this topic here and at the other Lomac forums. The getting it straightened out could have involved a press release from ED right at the beginning stating that 1.1 content was not in Gold and that they were working on sorting out the problem. The company I work for has content stolen from our website all the time, usually all it takes is a letter from the lawyer to whoever is using it and the problem goes away. I don't expect for ED to post any and all their legal laundry in public but something telling us what was going on would have been nice. Now you and Jason and whoever else has to run around doing damage control all over the place and there's still no official statement from ED except for a forum post from one of the programmers.

I don't have Gold, I already bought all the pieces (kinda thought that was clear ). The information about what is included in it is available in various forum posts and in the warning text for the Patch downloads on ED's site. I will say I'm thoroughly impressed with Evolved's distribution system if they can go from master to store shelves in a week if they did receive it a week ago.

I'm not one of the usual suspects when it comes to Lomac (or any other game) complaining. You can check my forum posts anywhere for verification of that. This whole thing felt wrong to me and it still does because of the timing of the release and the fact that there is a unique installer for the Evolved version. That said, it doesn't matter, ED doesn't have to involve me in their business decisions any more than I need ask them what color shirt I should wear to work in the morning. I do hope they can get their public relations problems sorted out to avoid these kinds of things happening in the future.

And now, 4 posts after I originally said I was done, I'm done, honest...


seriously....

Everybody take a deep breath, perhaps an adult beverage.

Way ahead of ya!

That just doesn't make any sense to me. TFC/ED was not party to the intial deal between Ubi and Evolved Games. Just what "situation" are you talking about then?

How many press releases have you seen by any small developer? How many from Eagle Dynamics? They don't have PR Department. Besides, releasing a press release before they have all the facts regarding the situation? That would only make matters worse. It is not TFC/ED's place to make a press release because they find out there is a misunderstanding between two other companies.

What company? Is it a small development studio based in Russia with no PR Department? I would imagine there were several letters from lawyers involved in this situation. Does your company release press releases about legal matters to the public?

Hello? They just resolved the situation last week. Frankly, the burden of explaining the situation is on Evolved Games' NOT TFC/ED. They, and Ubi Soft, are the ones that created this mess, not TFC/ED.

I'm not "running around". I've posted a few messages reporting to the community what I know and what I believe has happened. It's not really been difficult or very time consuming. I will agree that there should be an official spokesperson from TFC/ED but that is something I have suggested to them countless times. The lack of an official representive has made matters more confusing.

I just wish Ubi Soft had demonstrated better distribution, PR, and marketing when Lock On was first released. I don't think they mastered in a week. I think the disks were already burned before the deal was struck with TFC/ED. But, I don't know that for a fact.

I don't consider you a "usual suspect", I just disagreed with your assertion that something inapproriate was done by TFC/ED in this situation.

I don't know anything about this "unique installer" you mention, but regardless, Evolved is the one that made this situation happen, NOT TFC/ED. I believe that TFC/ED has responded approriately. Their only mistake, IMHO, is not having an offical explanation by an official representative.

Have a nice day.