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#4443202 - 10/10/18 06:50 PM Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range?  
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kverdon Offline
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kverdon  Offline
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Tigard, Oregon
Hi all,

I was wondering if someone knew what the .303 convergence/harmonization range for the Hurricane is in WOTR? From what I've read, by the time of the Battle of Britain, it should be about 250 yards .

#4443223 - 10/10/18 10:28 PM Re: Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range? [Re: kverdon]  
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ChiefWH Offline
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In the aircraft files it is ConvergeDistance="250" , but is that metres or yards...

#4443235 - 10/11/18 12:38 AM Re: Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range? [Re: kverdon]  
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kverdon Offline
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Thanks. I'm now opening fire at ~250 yards and it is being way more effective. Went from barely getting 2 of 5 Ju-87s to 4 of 5. I'm still not fond of how far the Stuka's can glide on a dead engine but my gunnery is looking up. I think before I was getting in too close and inside the harmonization of the guns.

#4443243 - 10/11/18 02:34 AM Re: Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range? [Re: kverdon]  
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carrick58 Offline
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In the game I use 300 yards and keep firing in bursts as I get closer.

#4443276 - 10/11/18 02:23 PM Re: Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range? [Re: kverdon]  
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ChiefWH Offline
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I originally assumed the game had been set to 300 yards to match the display on the gunsight, whilst it seems it wasn't necessarily set like that, it is near enough, and close enough to my preferred 210 metres I use in other sims that I seemed to be hitting things ok.

If I'm in too close, or want to take a long speculative shot, I just kick the rudder when close, or shoot wide when far out, and aim just the one wing.

NB I've mainly been flying hurricanes.

#4443306 - 10/11/18 05:37 PM Re: Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range? [Re: kverdon]  
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Rick_Rawlings Offline
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The sight reticle is currently defaulted at...what? fighters? Wingtip-to-wingtip. Anyone know how to do better than eyeballing when you adjust the size of the reticle?


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4443351 - 10/11/18 08:35 PM Re: Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range? [Re: ChiefWH]  
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bweiss Offline
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The 109E4 AI file and player file both show ConvergeDistance="300". Guess these are just horizontal convergence? I don't see any vertical settings. Wonder what would result from AI file convergence tweekery.

Last edited by bweiss; 10/11/18 09:02 PM.

"War: first, one hopes to win; then one expects the enemy to lose;
then, one is satisfied that he too is suffering; in the end,
one is surprised that everyone has lost."


-Karl Kraus, Die Fackel, October 19, 1917
#4443403 - 10/12/18 09:42 AM Re: Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range? [Re: Rick_Rawlings]  
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Ace_Pilto Offline
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Originally Posted by Rick_Rawlings
The sight reticle is currently defaulted at...what? fighters? Wingtip-to-wingtip. Anyone know how to do better than eyeballing when you adjust the size of the reticle?


Afaik the sight is supposed to be adjustable but it defaults to either 250 or 300 yards for a fighter sized target (Wingspan approx 32ft). Given that your closure rate will often be rapid (being the skilled, tactically superior aviator you are) there's not much point in picking bones about a mere 50ft since you'll only be in convergence range for a limited time. When aiming at bombers, place the circumference outboard of the engines and you won't be far off. For Bf-110's estimate your aim as the length from one wingtip to the outboard engine nacelle and you'll be on the money.

(Provided that the default range is observed by WoTR which I assume it is.)

I hope that adjustable (and gyro) sights become a thing for WoTR, 300 yards is a long way to shoot at high speed.

Last edited by Ace_Pilto; 10/12/18 09:44 AM.

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Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
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#4443412 - 10/12/18 10:42 AM Re: Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range? [Re: kverdon]  
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MajorMagee Offline
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Quote
You must fire your weapons only at the ranges for which they were designed. Normally, you should not fire at ranges greater than 400m, as beyond this distance the trajectory quickly falls away. This also applies to larger weapons such as the Mk 108. It is a common fallacy to believe that it must be possible to fire larger-caliber weapons at greater ranges, and that the aiming of these need not be as precise as for small-caliber weapons. The opposite is true! You have little ammunition! Use it sparingly. With the Mk 108 you only have 60 rounds, so reduce range, aim carefully, fire accurately.

Commence firing at a maximum range of 400m. Experience has shown that combat ranges are being greatly underestimated. The distance given in combat reports are almost never correct. When, for example, a combat range of 50-100m is reported, it actually varies between 200m and 400m, as established by analysis of combat films. Frequently, range estimation errors are even greater. In attacks against bombers, many fighters open fire at 2,500-3,000m. This is a senseless waste of ammunition!

A four-engined bomber has a wingspan of about 30M. If it appears a large as the deflection circle it is at a 300m range. (I set mine up for 400m so you might want to change the multipliers) For a four-engined bomber, the estimated value corresponding to a span of 30m is multiplied by 3. Therefore, a four-engined bomber with 30 m span fits in the circle one time - 1 x 3 = 300 m; fits in the circle two times - 2 x 3 = 600 m, fits in the circle three times - 3 x 3 = 900 m.

July 1944 Gunnery Instruction Document


I found this a few years ago when setting the reticle calibrations for CFS3.


Service To The Line,
On The Line,
On Time

US Army Ordnance Corps.
#4443413 - 10/12/18 10:44 AM Re: Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range? [Re: kverdon]  
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Ace_Pilto Offline
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You must fire your weapons only at the ranged for which they were designed


Whoever wrote this was shooting with cannon, not .303 calibre MGs


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4443423 - 10/12/18 12:45 PM Re: Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range? [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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Rick_Rawlings Offline
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Originally Posted by Ace_Pilto
Originally Posted by Rick_Rawlings
The sight reticle is currently defaulted at...what? fighters? Wingtip-to-wingtip. Anyone know how to do better than eyeballing when you adjust the size of the reticle?


Afaik the sight is supposed to be adjustable but it defaults to either 250 or 300 yards for a fighter sized target (Wingspan approx 32ft). Given that your closure rate will often be rapid (being the skilled, tactically superior aviator you are) there's not much point in picking bones about a mere 50ft since you'll only be in convergence range for a limited time. When aiming at bombers, place the circumference outboard of the engines and you won't be far off. For Bf-110's estimate your aim as the length from one wingtip to the outboard engine nacelle and you'll be on the money.

(Provided that the default range is observed by WoTR which I assume it is.)

I hope that adjustable (and gyro) sights become a thing for WoTR, 300 yards is a long way to shoot at high speed.


Thanks, Ace! For the record, I just skilled and tactically aviated myself into the a$$ of the bomber I was attacking and have officially forsworn such rapid closure rates for my next pilot! (fingers crossed behind back) You can adjust the sight now, but AFAIK the scale doesn't move below it, so I guess it is just guesswork...
salute


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4443554 - 10/13/18 10:40 AM Re: Hurricane gun convergence/harmonization range? [Re: kverdon]  
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Ace_Pilto Offline
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Oh good on you Rick, I had no idea that it could be adjusted. 300 yards is a long walk for those little BB's


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji

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