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#4442641 - 10/07/18 09:35 PM My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster.  
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Here is what I think:

1. The f14 is already complete and can have an exact release date.
2. However ED wants to delay it beyond christmas so the the F14 does not get in the way of selling this retarded yak crop duster.
3. ED also wants to delay it to give the F18 more space to sell. They did a free weekend and reduced price sales, which indicates the persian gulf and f18 are not selling many copies. That is the first time ED did a free weekend so they must be desperate to sell that F18
4. What ED does not consider is that some customers won't buy the F18 because they delayed the most important thing, the ground radar and they feel like perhaps completing it in the next 1-3 years. But customers who are still angry over the #%&*$# hawk, #%&*$# mirage and #%&*$# harrier feel uneasy about buying another 80€ plane. Because razbams modules are so #%&*$# (and priced like an ED or heatblur module) so paying 80€ for anything from DCS is a risky thing, because razbam and veao and avio ruined dcs reputation as the top of the line flight sim developer.

So here is my guess, F14 will be delayed until late January. The exact date will be determined until end of november. If ED notices people not wanting to buy the F18, they will allow the F14 to start selling.

Also, once the F14 is out, the three #%&*$# developers I mentioned in 4 will be out of business. Because no one will spend 80€ for a #%&*$# razbam harrier if he can get a heatblur plane.

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#4442662 - 10/08/18 03:22 AM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: straycat]  
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Seems a bit far fetched, but certainly the F-18 and F-14 being released so close wasn't good timing. I'm not sure what is more popular. Honestly, they're both extremely popular aircraft choices. The F-14 has an awkward cult following (Top Gun maybe?) so I think those fans will scream the loudest, but many of us have more interest in the F-18. Plus there is the foreign aspect. I'm sure the F-18 will sell better to foreign customers in Canada, Australia, Finland & Spain.

As for their YAK, I don't think they care much. They got paid for it already and any civilian sales are an added bonus. Their focus and customer interest will be in the F-18 but it would've been dumb to not sell the YAK and make some extra money.

#4442742 - 10/08/18 05:54 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: straycat]  
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Well, if they'd FINISH the hornet I might of think purchasing it . . .

Last edited by cdelucia; 10/08/18 06:18 PM.
#4442746 - 10/08/18 06:09 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: cdelucia]  
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Originally Posted by cdelucia
Well, if they'd FINISH the hornet I might think purchasing it . . .

That's how people should view the 14 too.
As a DCS Viggen customer waiting in early access for soon to be 2 years I find the screamers at ED forums borderline stupid.
All they've seen is bling bling and a horrid 2D splash Jester GUI.

I for one have zero trust in Heatblur.

#4442961 - 10/09/18 11:34 AM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: straycat]  
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Originally Posted by straycat
Here is what I think:
They did a free weekend and reduced price sales, which indicates the persian gulf and f18 are not selling many copies. That is the first time ED did a free weekend so they must be desperate to sell that F18

What exactly is the logic behind this?

#4443012 - 10/09/18 04:26 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: Exorcet]  
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Originally Posted by Exorcet
Originally Posted by straycat
Here is what I think:
They did a free weekend and reduced price sales, which indicates the persian gulf and f18 are not selling many copies. That is the first time ED did a free weekend so they must be desperate to sell that F18

What exactly is the logic behind this?


While I don't agree with everything straycat said...it does seem like they are selling their newest flagship module at a reduced price a lot faster than they have in the past. Also...going through the hassle of putting together a free weekend with 48 hour limited licenses of your newest module seems a little desperate. I'm sure hardcore fans of ED will say they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. But from a business standpoint...you don't put something on sale if it's selling well at full price.


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#4443015 - 10/09/18 04:56 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: straycat]  
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I would say they are experimenting with something that they have been asked for: Demos. Why would it have to be something desperate?


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#4443019 - 10/09/18 05:22 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted by GrayGhost
I would say they are experimenting with something that they have been asked for: Demos. Why would it have to be something desperate?


I have no doubt that free demos is what has been asked for given that folks are no longer willing to take the gamble with unfinished ED products these days...so I will concede that point.

How can you spin putting your newest module on sale if it's selling well at full price? (I have faith that you will spin this in ED's favor somehow)


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#4443021 - 10/09/18 05:36 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: Force10]  
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Exorcet Offline
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Originally Posted by Force10
While I don't agree with everything straycat said...it does seem like they are selling their newest flagship module at a reduced price a lot faster than they have in the past. Also...going through the hassle of putting together a free weekend with 48 hour limited licenses of your newest module seems a little desperate. I'm sure hardcore fans of ED will say they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. But from a business standpoint...you don't put something on sale if it's selling well at full price.


Had they not had sales in the past I might understand why people would think that way, but this is pretty much the norm for ED. Even on their forums there have been comments about modules going on sale quickly after release. They've also had requests for paid module demos as GrayGhost brought up.

What was said originally isn't out of the realm of possibility I guess, but it doesn't strike me as being the most obvious explanation. Was just curious as I've seen it bought up in a couple of threads now.

#4443023 - 10/09/18 05:40 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: theOden]  
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Originally Posted by theOden
Originally Posted by cdelucia
Well, if they'd FINISH the hornet I might think purchasing it . . .

That's how people should view the 14 too.
As a DCS Viggen customer waiting in early access for soon to be 2 years I find the screamers at ED forums borderline stupid.
All they've seen is bling bling and a horrid 2D splash Jester GUI.

I for one have zero trust in Heatblur.


Out of curiosity, what systems are missing from the Viggen?

#4443027 - 10/09/18 05:52 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: Exorcet]  
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Originally Posted by Exorcet
Originally Posted by Force10
While I don't agree with everything straycat said...it does seem like they are selling their newest flagship module at a reduced price a lot faster than they have in the past. Also...going through the hassle of putting together a free weekend with 48 hour limited licenses of your newest module seems a little desperate. I'm sure hardcore fans of ED will say they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. But from a business standpoint...you don't put something on sale if it's selling well at full price.


Had they not had sales in the past I might understand why people would think that way, but this is pretty much the norm for ED.


No...not the "Norm" for ED to put their top tier module on sale after a few months. FC stuff and others yes...not their newest module. I think it took a couple years for the A-10 to go on sale...and that's after it hit final release stage.


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#4443035 - 10/09/18 06:06 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
I have no doubt that free demos is what has been asked for given that folks are no longer willing to take the gamble with unfinished ED products these days...so I will concede that point.


I see that you couldn't resist. The idea is quite a bit older than your rethoric.

Quote
How can you spin putting your newest module on sale if it's selling well at full price? (I have faith that you will spin this in ED's favor somehow)


I wouldn't know - with Igor's passing, running the business has passed to someone else (I don't know who) and they might not have the same ideas as Igor did. But sure, let's go with your theory, I'll have a crack at it smile

Sales are often a trick of the business - in many places you buy things that you believe are on sale - yet, the only thing that's really going on is a particular label. A vendor can use this tool to drive more traffic and make more money despite lowering the price or ... they might not even lower the price.
You might as well accuse every grocery chain out there of being desperate - fact is, none of us know how ED is really doing. What we do know is that as far as DCS is concerned, there are regular updates and frequent communication - something that was asked for by community.
Given the other explanations available, I believe some people are just wishing that ED is going down the tubes. It's just projection, and not much else. You could be right, you could be wrong, but that's a pretty strong attempt to explain things in a particular way.

I'm sorry, I considered sneaking a car analogy in there but I'm a bit short on time right now.

Last edited by GrayGhost; 10/09/18 06:09 PM.

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#4443037 - 10/09/18 06:08 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
Originally Posted by Exorcet
Originally Posted by Force10
While I don't agree with everything straycat said...it does seem like they are selling their newest flagship module at a reduced price a lot faster than they have in the past. Also...going through the hassle of putting together a free weekend with 48 hour limited licenses of your newest module seems a little desperate. I'm sure hardcore fans of ED will say they are doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. But from a business standpoint...you don't put something on sale if it's selling well at full price.


Had they not had sales in the past I might understand why people would think that way, but this is pretty much the norm for ED.


No...not the "Norm" for ED to put their top tier module on sale after a few months. FC stuff and others yes...not their newest module. I think it took a couple years for the A-10 to go on sale...and that's after it hit final release stage.

I don't really remember the sales history of the A-10, so fair point. It is a much older module though. I was going to say that ED hasn't directly released anything since then, but I remembered the WWII fighters. Belsimtek's stuff could be counted as ED maybe. I don't know if you would count those as being in the same tier, and I don't know how long it took for them to go on sale off the top of my head.

If we are limiting things to the Ka-50, A-10, and F-18 then I suppose the F-18 would be the outlier.

#4443040 - 10/09/18 06:19 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10
Originally Posted by GrayGhost
I would say they are experimenting with something that they have been asked for: Demos. Why would it have to be something desperate?


I have no doubt that free demos is what has been asked for given that folks are no longer willing to take the gamble with unfinished ED products these days...so I will concede that point.

How can you spin putting your newest module on sale if it's selling well at full price? (I have faith that you will spin this in ED's favor somehow)


Well the module did see a $20 price hike to $80 over the previous $60. I suppose they will go back to putting it on sale more frequently due to the higher overall price.

Similar to SSD pricing. The list price may be $150, but they go on sale for $130 every other month typically. Or that is how it has been in the past.

#4443041 - 10/09/18 06:20 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: GrayGhost]  
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Originally Posted by GrayGhost
Originally Posted by Force10
I have no doubt that free demos is what has been asked for given that folks are no longer willing to take the gamble with unfinished ED products these days...so I will concede that point.


I see that you couldn't resist. The idea is quite a bit older than your rethoric.

Quote
How can you spin putting your newest module on sale if it's selling well at full price? (I have faith that you will spin this in ED's favor somehow)


I wouldn't know - with Igor's passing, running the business has passed to someone else (I don't know who) and they might not have the same ideas as Igor did. But sure, let's go with your theory, I'll have a crack at it smile

Sales are often a trick of the business - in many places you buy things that you believe are on sale - yet, the only thing that's really going on is a particular label. A vendor can use this tool to drive more traffic and make more money despite lowering the price or ... they might not even lower the price.
You might as well accuse every grocery chain out there of being desperate - fact is, none of us know how ED is really doing. What we do know is that as far as DCS is concerned, there are regular updates and frequent communication - something that was asked for by community.
Given the other explanations available, I believe some people are just wishing that ED is going down the tubes. It's just projection, and not much else. You could be right, you could be wrong, but that's a pretty strong attempt to explain things in a particular way.

I'm sorry, I considered sneaking a car analogy in there but I'm a bit short on time right now.


No worries Ghost...I get your point, and you rose to the challenge. wink

As far as wishing for ED to go down the tubes...it's really not an issue with me either way. I have given up on them being a viable source for a combat pilot simulation. Their constant...never ending, unfinished content business model is here to stay and it's not for me. With BMS, WOFF, and WOTR giving enough of that immersive combat pilot feel I don't need much else.

(Except for someone to make a full on Korean war era sim)


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#4443043 - 10/09/18 06:29 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: Tirak]  
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Originally Posted by Tirak
Originally Posted by theOden
Originally Posted by cdelucia
Well, if they'd FINISH the hornet I might think purchasing it . . .

That's how people should view the 14 too.
As a DCS Viggen customer waiting in early access for soon to be 2 years I find the screamers at ED forums borderline stupid.
All they've seen is bling bling and a horrid 2D splash Jester GUI.

I for one have zero trust in Heatblur.


Out of curiosity, what systems are missing from the Viggen?


From memory:

Illum bombs stuck every 2nd patch
Radio setup randomly fail starting from mission of running from ME
AI rockets (and player aim) miss by far (object target and ground point tested, sometimes they just orbit and never deploy ordnance at all, perfect move above manpad area)
SPA mode (recon) cannot track target for speed/heading (3 minute)
Anti-ship missiles are laser guided
AI never fires AShM (Rb04E but Rb15 goes off to Hindustan - prolly due to laser guided workaround).
Rb04E and Rb15 wrong definition warheads resulting in very poor effect on naval vessels
AI deploys chaff/flare despite no pods (must force 0 in ME by mission builder, I'm ok with that workaround)
AI unable to loft bomb (important Viggen profile and a must for illum)
Inbound/outbound lines for breakpoints not working
Validate flightplan before takeoff not working
High-altitude AB fails
Gunpods way off in size (No biggie, I can live with that one)
Minors such as plane bort number not implemented.

and some other points I no longer remember since I deleted all my notes when I uninstalled DCS last month.

Over time since "release" bugs come and go telling me they have no source code control worth the name.

But sure, it looks stunning - just like the 14.

#4443144 - 10/10/18 01:05 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: theOden]  
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Tirak Offline
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Originally Posted by theOden
]
Illum bombs stuck every 2nd patch
Radio setup randomly fail starting from mission of running from ME
AI rockets (and player aim) miss by far (object target and ground point tested, sometimes they just orbit and never deploy ordnance at all, perfect move above manpad area)
SPA mode (recon) cannot track target for speed/heading (3 minute)
Anti-ship missiles are laser guided
AI never fires AShM (Rb04E but Rb15 goes off to Hindustan - prolly due to laser guided workaround).
Rb04E and Rb15 wrong definition warheads resulting in very poor effect on naval vessels
AI deploys chaff/flare despite no pods (must force 0 in ME by mission builder, I'm ok with that workaround)
AI unable to loft bomb (important Viggen profile and a must for illum)
Inbound/outbound lines for breakpoints not working
Validate flightplan before takeoff not working
High-altitude AB fails
Gunpods way off in size (No biggie, I can live with that one)
Minors such as plane bort number not implemented.

and some other points I no longer remember since I deleted all my notes when I uninstalled DCS last month.

Over time since "release" bugs come and go telling me they have no source code control worth the name.

But sure, it looks stunning - just like the 14.


I've done a little bit of digging and it does appear like some of these issues, though certainly not all, have been worked on, specifically the August patch notes indicated they had fixed the SPA mode, as well as the AI being unable to use AShM properly.
https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3608658&postcount=1

I don't really follow the Viggen, as I have no interest in the aircraft, though it does seem like they do try to stamp out bugs where they can find them. If you don't mind me asking, I have a few more questions. I don't mean for these to sound hostile, I'm just trying to get more information about how Heatblur handles their released modules, since the team split off right before the MiG-21 went to #%&*$# so I don't have too much to work on from their earlier module I do own.

1. When was the last time you played the module?
2. How great an impact did incomplete/buggy features have on your enjoyment of the module?
3. Did you raise these issues with HeatBlur?
4. If so, how satisfied were you with their response, if any.
5. What sort of other important bugs do you remember and how long did it take for them to be resolved?
6. In your opinion, what is a reasonable amount of time for bugs of varying complexity to be resolved?
7. In your opinion, what is a reasonable amount of time for a module to be in Early Access?
8. Based on Heatblur's claim of having their F-14B module being mostly feature complete on early access launch, how confident are you they will be able to meet that goal?
9. Knowing what you know now, would you purchase the AJS-37 Viggen Module?
10. Knowing what you know now, would you purchase the F-14 module?

Sorry for the marketing survey sounding questions, but again, just trying to dial in on how good Heatblur is at followup. RAZBAM has proven to be pretty disastrously bad at it, VEAO goes without saying, AVIODev hasn't actually released anything of note and Polychop... well that's its own #%&*$#...

#4443159 - 10/10/18 02:15 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: straycat]  
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No worries, no hostility detected biggrin

1. Just over a month
2. show stoppers since I do singleplayer mission creation depending alot on AI flights.
3. A year ago I notified them the ARAK warheads was way off since then I've seen so many heated responses to complaints I've choosen not to raise them but let them figure it out on their own.
4. ARAK warhead issue was pretty OK in response
5. See list above
6. 3 weeks
7. 3 months
8. Zero
9. No
10. Hell no.

In all honesty, it's not all about blaming 3rd Party despite I dislike the setup (too easy to say it's the other part that needs to do something etc.) but after many hours in editor and LUA coding in notepad I've come to realize DCS will never be the combat sim I hoped for but will stay a cockpit simulator where creating 1 single module must surely be way to costly to make financial sense.

While VEAO has failed beyond anything they can recover from the other 3rd parties also seem to suffer great from ED's inability to communicate changes to the core sim with them, Heatblur/Viggen got a total smack in the face when ED changed the atmospheric simulation and considering the Viggen weapon computer use airpressure at target steerpoint suddenly the Viggen was completely off - I can only imagine what surprises VEAO been suffering while also struggling with a generally sub-par module to start with.

The modules are well worth it for those who want's to play online pvp style.

#4443161 - 10/10/18 02:26 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: straycat]  
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What's nice about all this conversation is that it's even happening. I always look forward to GG's responses, even if sometimes I don't agree with him. In the past I've found him to be helpful and honest as he can be depending upon which boards or messenger was being used at the time. What I mean by that is this conversation never would happen on ED's boards. That being said I don't think anyone wants to see ED go away. All of the complaints I see are people wanting a more feature rich and completed sim. For those that criticize ED's business model of releasing alpha candidates, ED deserves every bit of that criticism. Since I began gaming online in 2001 the same things have been said over and over about unfinished software. I started online with the original Ghost Recon and there were several really bad issues with the game for several version numbers. UBISoft took a bunch of heat and criticism on the boards but they did listen. They had community managers that interacted with the community. Hell, we even had our own chat room (shades of Hyperlobby) for a while before UBI decided to stop continuing development. LOMAC even had it's own boards and had ED representation to answer questions, etc. Stormin' Norman was the guy. Of course, he got run off (I won't name the producer's name) and now we have SimHQ to discuss the good, bad and ugly of what's coming from ED. Frankly, I'm waiting until they get the Hornet more complete. Couple of my squaddies fly them IRL. AFAIK they're waiting too. It's ironic to me that the Tomcat will be shipped full featured while we wait for ED to finish several of their products. I'm going to pre-order the Tomcat.

#4443182 - 10/10/18 04:19 PM Re: My guess: F14 will be delayed to late january so ED can keep selling this retarded yak cropduster. [Re: Force10]  
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Originally Posted by Force10



As far as wishing for ED to go down the tubes...it's really not an issue with me either way. I have given up on them being a viable source for a combat pilot simulation. Their constant...never ending, unfinished content business model is here to stay and it's not for me. With BMS, WOFF, and WOTR giving enough of that immersive combat pilot feel I don't need much else.

(Except for someone to make a full on Korean war era sim)


I feel the same way. If ED would just pick an Era, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam or Present day and finish one so to say, map, SP missions, a few Campaigns, then I would be inclined to use DCS my regularly. As of now I have plenty of Sims to use and short of the Jet Age (Migg 29 & F14) I am only flying DCS once every Blue moon. The memory specs are also a deterrent as I have 16gbs memory and needing 32gbs to run DCS smoothly or fly online in big missions is holding me back. IMHO I can't see investing the money with the state that DCS is in now.

S!Blade<><

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by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
Carnival Cruise Ship Fire....... Again
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:58 PM
Baltimore Bridge Collapse
by F4UDash4. 03/26/24 05:51 PM
The Oldest WWII Veterans
by F4UDash4. 03/24/24 09:21 PM
They got fired after this.
by Wigean. 03/20/24 08:19 PM
Grown ups joke time
by NoFlyBoy. 03/18/24 10:34 PM
Anyone Heard from Nimits?
by F4UDash4. 03/18/24 10:01 PM
RIP Gemini/Apollo astronaut Tom Stafford
by semmern. 03/18/24 02:14 PM
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