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#4439853 - 09/20/18 11:30 AM Gunnery problems  
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RANSs9 Offline
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In addition to being a bad shot I am having difficulty getting the sight on target.

In my set up it the sight appears to be below the axis of rotation leading to a pendulum effect whenever I try to fine tune the aim.For example, coming up on a HE111 with the sight just to the side of the fuselage I bank slightly to bring it on to the target and now the sight has swung to the wing tip as a result of the pendulum effect.

Is it just me (quite possible) ?
Can I adjust the eye position/sight to bring it more in line with the aircraft roll axis ?

I have compared it with my other favourite sim BOB2 which doesn't appear to have the same problem.

Any tips / advice gratefully received...TIM

#4439860 - 09/20/18 11:59 AM Re: Gunnery problems [Re: RANSs9]  
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Originally Posted by RANSs9


Any tips / advice gratefully received...TIM


Trim, trim and trim.


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Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4439864 - 09/20/18 12:37 PM Re: Gunnery problems [Re: RANSs9]  
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RANs9

The head bobbing feature defined in the "d3d8.ini" file may be what is giving you trouble. It is designed to emulate body movement when the aircraft changes attitude such a banking. Much like in a car when you go around a corner your body is thrown slightly in the opposite direction which changes your centre of view. You can either disable this feature or learn to adapt to it since it does provide realism. Practice in QC to get used to it if you intend to keep it.

Otherwise look into the d3d8.ini file for the headshake option and ensure it is set to "0" to disable it. The default setting is "0" but maybe you need to check yours.

Best Regards;


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#4439889 - 09/20/18 02:30 PM Re: Gunnery problems [Re: RANSs9]  
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JJJ65 Offline
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Headshake option is already present in WOTR Workshop, so anybody can easily disable it. I suppose it is switched OFF by default.

#4440076 - 09/21/18 10:15 AM Re: Gunnery problems [Re: RANSs9]  
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Thanks for the replies.

I am not sure trim is going to compensate for a misalignment between the roll axis of the plane and gun convergence. Back in sim and attempting to obtain zero alpha no +ve/-ve barrel roll and the gunsight still pendulums. Experienced similar difficulties using the fixed reticle bomb sights in the A4 in Strike Fighters and Su27 in the Flanker series.

Also I can't see any headshake occuring in sim. Viewpoint seems nicely fixed. I have tried altering the viewpoint but that just blanks off part of the sight.

Worryingly for me nobody else seems to be having a problem. Which rather suggests I am the problem....which wouldn't be a first ! Experimenting in sim the roll axis seems to be roughly on the top edge of the sight so I am going to try a two stage solution. First manoeuvre centre top edge sight on target, then straight pull to bring pipper on to target and fire.

TIM

#4440094 - 09/21/18 12:17 PM Re: Gunnery problems [Re: RANSs9]  
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Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Well, you can lead a horse to water...


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4440097 - 09/21/18 12:46 PM Re: Gunnery problems [Re: RANSs9]  
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Rick_Rawlings Offline
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RANSs9, have you noticed this issue in any of the gameplay videos that have been posted? That might help nail down whether it is something more specific to your setup? Are you using TrackIR?


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4440213 - 09/22/18 11:09 AM Re: Gunnery problems [Re: RANSs9]  
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RANSs9 Offline
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Thanks for the response.

I use trackIr.

Having reviewed the limited number of youtubes it's difficult to tell as they are 20+mins with about 5 secs of snap shots. No tracking shots or adjustments. I rebooted up BOB2 and did a comparative scenario against easy targets (Ju87's). Five passes 3 destroyed even against their stunningly accurate rear gunners ! It was easy to track and make fine adjustments to bring the shells onto the fuselage. Similar scenerio in WOTR against 3 Ju87 formmating non manoeuvring ; ten passes one aircraft damaged and alot of shot up wing tips. I know comparisons are odious but same computer, same gear/ TrackIr and SAME IDIOT at the controls.

Ace_Pilto: sorry if I have offended I am just not sure how trim (presumably elevator) is going to help. If the aircraft was significantly +ve trimmed (or for that matter -ve) then for sure if you don't compensate and just input roll the aircraft is going to +ve barrel roll (or -ve). But it is a simple matter to just ease a small (and at these higher speeds it would be small) amount of forward stick to give approx 0 alpha; in which case you have pure roll and if the sight dote is swinging then I would have thought it isn't aligned with the roll axis. This may not be true, I may be confused or there maybe another reason you feel trim is the answer.Please expand.

I have retried with the widest field of view (short of Goldfish Bowling)and this seems to minimize the effect.

TIM

#4440224 - 09/22/18 01:10 PM Re: Gunnery problems [Re: RANSs9]  
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Hmm. So we are both using TrackIR. Is there any way you could do a short video to show what you mean? I have read your description a few times and am trying to visualize what is going on. Are you saying that the plane's roll axis is not around the center of the gunsight? Are you able to walk on the target with rudder? Are you mostly talking about deflection shots in a turn or just trying to pinpoint specific parts of the aircraft while attacking from behind? Thanks!


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4440231 - 09/22/18 01:38 PM Re: Gunnery problems [Re: RANSs9]  
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Haha, you haven't offended me. I was attempting to get you to look more seriously at how an untrimmed aircraft could be what is causing your problem.

You see rudder trim is indirectly tied to the roll axis. If your plane is out of trim and not flying co-ordinated (ie: when the slip ball/needle isn't centered) you get what is called adverse yaw. (When the plane rolls it also yaws in the opposite direction to the roll and vice versa). The faster you go, the worse it gets. Also, a well trimmed plane is a stable gun platform, this makes aiming less complicated. Basically, if you have a stable plane then any inaccuracy is probably your own fault. Keep your rudder trimmed and your roll issues will be decreased.

Last edited by Ace_Pilto; 09/22/18 01:42 PM.

Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4440639 - 09/24/18 09:12 PM Re: Gunnery problems [Re: RANSs9]  
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RANSs9 Offline
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Averse yaw ..I think you've hit it ..or me ..on the head. Eventually getting the program to register my rudder pedals and using the outside view while wing rocking shows a quite marked tendency for adverse yaw. It should be more marked at low than high speed and arguably not not present at all during a ballistic roll at zero alpha ...but he hoo. A heft boot of co-ordinating rudder definitely tempers the wandering sight. Game on.

Thanks...Tim


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