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#4440184 - 09/22/18 01:33 AM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Space_Ghost]  
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Originally Posted by Space_Ghost
Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
Originally Posted by Space_Ghost

Wow. screwy rofl


Every time I read your dribble I think “agenda.” So what is yours? What are your trying to prove besides me wishing SimHQ had a “Ignore” function.


You're a grown man, I think you're going to be alright.

I just don't understand what your point is? You said you got a refund. Are you trying to make the game better? I don't think this approach is going to work. Are you just trying to be snarky? Sometimes that is fun, but I don't know if that is what you are going for. You've raised some reasonable points in the past, I think that the automatic prop pitch for the BF 109 is something that could be done if you suggest it in the technical forum. This sim is based on CFS3. That's the engine they have to work with. They have done good things with it so far, and I hope for more in the future but some things are going to be out of reach. I happen to like where they lean to on the flying sim/pilot experience sim side of the line. I generally agree with the statement for their other game: 'If you want to know what it is like to fly world war I planes, fly ROF. If you want to know what it is like to fly planes in WWI, fly WOFF". An over-simplification, but it is a reasonable approximation of what the situation is, I feel.


The older I get, the more I realize I don't need to be Han, Luke or Leia. I'm just happy to be rebel scum...
#4440190 - 09/22/18 02:07 AM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Space_Ghost]  
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Originally Posted by Space_Ghost
Originally Posted by Pat_Pattle
Quote
FM: Lightyears behind Cliffs of Dover... Absolute lightyears... The FM doesn't even compare to 1946 IMHO. Even with that being said, Cliffs' FM is pretty far behind IL-2: Great Battles. If you've flown the Hurricane or Emil in any other sim, this one is going to feel strange and alien to you, the aircraft won't respond in any of the ways you expect it to, etc. It is very hard to "suspend disbelief" with the FMs having their roots in CFS3. I was told the FMs had "good feedback" in beta... I don't know who was smoking what or who they were talking to


Purely subjective of course, old chap but "lightyears"?? when was the last time you flew a real Hurricane? smile2


Yes, the FM is lightyears behind currently competing products.

This stalwart defensiveness is hilariously unbecoming.


I am a pilot and WoTR's FM feels fine to me. Does it accurately simulate the behavior of real-world flying? No. Do CLoD, IL-2, and other sims accurately simulate the behavior of real-world flying? No. Not even close.

But they all feel close enough to the real thing, and that's good enough for a computer game.

#4440197 - 09/22/18 04:01 AM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Eisenfaust]  
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Much has been written in this thread. I've been playing flight sims since I bought JET for my 8088 Leading Edge back in the mid-1980s. Hell, I even suffered through THE BLUE MAX piece of crap game.

You an talk FMs, exterior graphics, cockpit graphics, ground, sky, clouds, sounds, etc. You can talk about the AI.

For me, these products are entertainment. And I judge them simply. How often and how long do I keep playing them? I think my Son gave me an early version of WOFF as a Christmas present something like ten years ago or so. And it's been on my PCs ever since! And I keep playing, with occasional breaks because of RL.

I had IL2. I had EAW. I had BoB. And RoF. Yea, you could argue that ths game or that had better whatevers. But WOFF is what I still play. And I expect the same from WOTR, which is why I bought it.


Nowi
#4440202 - 09/22/18 06:00 AM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Nowi]  
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Originally Posted by Nowi

For me, these products are entertainment. And I judge them simply. How often and how long do I keep playing them? I think my Son gave me an early version of WOFF as a Christmas present something like ten years ago or so. And it's been on my PCs ever since! And I keep playing, with occasional breaks because of RL.

I had IL2. I had EAW. I had BoB. And RoF. Yea, you could argue that ths game or that had better whatevers. But WOFF is what I still play. And I expect the same from WOTR, which is why I bought it.

+1
I have exactly the same feeling and experience, Nowi. The only difference I got WOFF as christmas present from my son at 2014? wink

#4440203 - 09/22/18 06:37 AM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: JJJ65]  
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I generally don’t get involved in discussions like this, but I feel compelled to agree with Nowi. I have had OFF on my PC since 2012 and I have had many hundreds of hours of flight time on the sim, my wife can attest to this, and expect to enjoy it for years to come along with WOTR. An additional plus is the level of Support that I have received from the OBD team. It exceeds exceptional.
Also I have my Private Pilot License and I agree that no sim is like actually flying, but for pure long term entertainment in a flight sim nothing beats WOFF and I have every reason to expect the same from WOTR.

#4440204 - 09/22/18 07:28 AM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Eisenfaust]  
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Quote
I am a pilot and WoTR's FM feels fine to me. Does it accurately simulate the behavior of real-world flying? No. Do CLoD, IL-2, and other sims accurately simulate the behavior of real-world flying? No. Not even close.

But they all feel close enough to the real thing, and that's good enough for a computer game.


A perfect summing up of flight sims, thank you Nickerbocker! thumbsup

#4440207 - 09/22/18 09:20 AM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Eisenfaust]  
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I don't think that comparing WOTR to any other sim/game is fair to either the game or the developers. Every different sim has it's strong points and it's weaknesses. I think that what the developers have managed to do with WOTR being based on a 16 year old sim is phenomenal! The graphics while not perfect are very good. I think that the gameplay is excellent. You will never have a sim with the "feel" of flight unless you can afford a true full motion simulator, but the flight dynamics of WOTR are quite good. In the end it all boils down to whether you enjoy the sim or not. I enjoy it very much and consider it money well spent!

#4440238 - 09/22/18 02:00 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Nickerbocker]  
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Originally Posted by Nickerbocker


I am a pilot and WoTR's FM feels fine to me. Does it accurately simulate the behavior of real-world flying? No. Do CLoD, IL-2, and other sims accurately simulate the behavior of real-world flying? No. Not even close.

But they all feel close enough to the real thing, and that's good enough for a computer game.


Ditto, it's academic to argue which bad representation of flying is the best. It only needs to be good enough to feel right. There is so much dynamic motion in flying a real plane that becoming obsessed with the simulating the physics of it only make your game run horribly slow due to the insurmountable challenge of attempting to encode all of that data and somehow stuff it into a game. Then you have the physical sensations that are simply impossible to recreate unless you have a few million dollarydoos to build a motion platform which will still be inadequate compared to reality. This obsession with unachievable fidelity leaves no room for what is really important, the world and the context. I didn't buy WoTR expecting a physics simulator, I bought it expecting a broader experience of what is involved in surviving the day to day operations of a large scale war where I am constantly in peril, to look out of the cockpit and see history playing out before me one day at a time.


Let's pretend I got the BWOC badge to embed here.

Wenn ihr sieg im deine Kampf selbst gegen, wirst stark wie Stahl sein.
"The best techniques are passed on by the survivors." - Gaiden Shinji
#4440248 - 09/22/18 02:54 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Ace_Pilto]  
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Originally Posted by Ace_Pilto
Originally Posted by Nickerbocker


I am a pilot and WoTR's FM feels fine to me. Does it accurately simulate the behavior of real-world flying? No. Do CLoD, IL-2, and other sims accurately simulate the behavior of real-world flying? No. Not even close.

But they all feel close enough to the real thing, and that's good enough for a computer game.


Ditto, it's academic to argue which bad representation of flying is the best. It only needs to be good enough to feel right. There is so much dynamic motion in flying a real plane that becoming obsessed with the simulating the physics of it only make your game run horribly slow due to the insurmountable challenge of attempting to encode all of that data and somehow stuff it into a game. Then you have the physical sensations that are simply impossible to recreate unless you have a few million dollarydoos to build a motion platform which will still be inadequate compared to reality. This obsession with unachievable fidelity leaves no room for what is really important, the world and the context. I didn't buy WoTR expecting a physics simulator, I bought it expecting a broader experience of what is involved in surviving the day to day operations of a large scale war where I am constantly in peril, to look out of the cockpit and see history playing out before me one day at a time.


So, everyone seems to agree that real-life flying doesn't necessarily equate to sim playing. I would concur, broadly and generally. And I have flown, as well as had military simulator training and experience.

It's just a little troubling that, back a few pages in this thread, someone felt the need to bring up whether another had actually flown a real Hurricane.

If everyone seems to agree there's no real connection, then why would that question ever be asked?

Later on, a different person commented they trusted the person who asked about real-life flying, because they'd "been around".

Not sure I understand why we should trust someone who asks a question if the consensus is that real-life flying isn't an appropriate comparison. Nor does it seem to make sense why having 'been around' is the standard.

I"d really like to think we're all intelligent enough to see the issue with this. Especially if you're at all concerned with the new people - potential customers, mind you - who might wander through here and see this.

But, like I said above...what do I know?

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/22/18 02:55 PM.
#4440254 - 09/22/18 03:54 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Eisenfaust]  
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Are we having fun yet? So much trash. Let's go play. It's only a game!
BadBud

#4440255 - 09/22/18 04:00 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: BadBud]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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Originally Posted by BadBud
Are we having fun yet? So much trash. Let's go play. It's only a game!
BadBud


May I ask what you're referring to as "So much trash"?

#4440257 - 09/22/18 04:06 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Adger Offline
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Originally Posted by Ace_Pilto
Originally Posted by Nickerbocker


I am a pilot and WoTR's FM feels fine to me. Does it accurately simulate the behavior of real-world flying? No. Do CLoD, IL-2, and other sims accurately simulate the behavior of real-world flying? No. Not even close.

But they all feel close enough to the real thing, and that's good enough for a computer game.


Ditto, it's academic to argue which bad representation of flying is the best. It only needs to be good enough to feel right. There is so much dynamic motion in flying a real plane that becoming obsessed with the simulating the physics of it only make your game run horribly slow due to the insurmountable challenge of attempting to encode all of that data and somehow stuff it into a game. Then you have the physical sensations that are simply impossible to recreate unless you have a few million dollarydoos to build a motion platform which will still be inadequate compared to reality. This obsession with unachievable fidelity leaves no room for what is really important, the world and the context. I didn't buy WoTR expecting a physics simulator, I bought it expecting a broader experience of what is involved in surviving the day to day operations of a large scale war where I am constantly in peril, to look out of the cockpit and see history playing out before me one day at a time.


So, everyone seems to agree that real-life flying doesn't necessarily equate to sim playing. I would concur, broadly and generally. And I have flown, as well as had military simulator training and experience.

It's just a little troubling that, back a few pages in this thread, someone felt the need to bring up whether another had actually flown a real Hurricane.

If everyone seems to agree there's no real connection, then why would that question ever be asked?

Later on, a different person commented they trusted the person who asked about real-life flying, because they'd "been around".

Not sure I understand why we should trust someone who asks a question if the consensus is that real-life flying isn't an appropriate comparison. Nor does it seem to make sense why having 'been around' is the standard.

I"d really like to think we're all intelligent enough to see the issue with this. Especially if you're at all concerned with the new people - potential customers, mind you - who might wander through here and see this.

But, like I said above...what do I know?



You STILL bringing this up? Your making yourself look silly you really are. How about firing up the sim and you know..try to have some fun?

You post about the same topic over and over and to me..its quite boring. Your like a dog with a bone..its embarrassing If youv,e a problem with somebodys comment then..PM them?

Like i said go and have some fun instead of watching WOTR videos at quarter speed? to pick out "faults" seriously you need to find some fun in your life KKsnowbear

EDIT: And yes in the world of SIMULATIONS\GAMES and that's what were talking about. Thats what this is a bloody video game all said and done. i "Trust" Pats call for his work and dedication and time spent with CFS3 code..because he,s been around. If he,s happy with the sim then I trust his call.
Bloody ell man..fire up the sim and enjoy instead of "trying to pick the meat off the bones of everything"


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4440259 - 09/22/18 04:16 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Adger]  
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Originally Posted by Adger
You STILL bringing this up? Your making yourself look silly you really are. How about firing up the sim and you know..try to have some fun?

You post about the same topic over and over and to me..its quite boring. Your like a dog with a bone..its embarrassing If youv,e a problem with somebodys comment then..PM them?

Like i said go and have some fun instead of watching WOTR videos at quarter speed? to pick out "faults" seriously you need to find some fun in your life KKsnowbear


I explained about the video reviews, and that was posted as requested by RJW to help identify a problem.

I even specifically said that no one should jump me because I wasn't doing it to find fault, just to try and help solve a problem that originally Wodin reported. But I guess it's asking too much to not be attacked for posting details that were requested.

As might be expected, insults and attacks.

#4440261 - 09/22/18 04:24 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Eisenfaust]  
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Adger Offline
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Its not about the posting of details,and dont start going on about insults and attacks.

You have posted what 4 times? on this thread regarding about what people have said? like i said if YOUV,E a problem with what Pat,s commented about then why not PM him. Ive explained why i trust his call is that ok with you?
You might not agree with my "judgement" but..i dont care. Its mine to make

I came to give advice on this thread which i did (even Space Ghost did) you seem like you want to "Witch" hunt somebody or "debunk" them if thats the right word. Like i said fire up the sim and enjoy.
Regards Adger


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4440262 - 09/22/18 04:36 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Eisenfaust]  
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Insults and attacks are exactly what's happening. You might not agree with my judgement, but just as you put it, I don't care.

And you're also completely wrong about the posting of details. RJW asked for details, I provided what was requested. That's what is was, that's all it was. It certainly seems you want to turn it into something it's not.

BTW if we apply your reasoning then if Pat had issue with whether Space Ghost had flown a Hurricane, then why couldn't he just PM?

It's really not so hard to see why.

Last edited by kksnowbear; 09/22/18 04:49 PM.
#4440264 - 09/22/18 04:47 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: kksnowbear]  
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Adger Offline
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Originally Posted by kksnowbear
Insults and attacks are exactly what's happening. You might not agree with my judgement, but just as you put it, I don't care.

And you're also completely wrong about the posting of details. RJW asked for details, I provided what was requested. That's what is was, that's all it was. It certainly seems you want to turn it into something it's not.

BTW if we apply your reasoning then if Pat had issue with whether Space Ghost had flown a Hurricane, then why couldn't he just PM?

It's really not so hard to see why.




Where did Robert ask for video evidence? He said and i quote "Yes, it may be aircraft specific so more details would be great." Nowhere did he ask you to watch WOTR vids at quarter speed and report back or did he?. Ive helped countless people on this\the WOFF and other forum sites providing links to pages Sweetfx settings,ive gifted aircraft in other sims but to watch a vid at quarter speed? I don,t like anyone that much ..thats just madness

Dont start with the " It certainly seems you want to turn it into something it's not." Its YOU thats got the issue regarding Pats comment,no-one else..you.
Ive explained all that i need to. I apologize to the OP for going "Off" topic ive said my peace. I wont respond anymore.We will just agree to disagree.

"BTW if we apply your reasoning then if Pat had issue with whether Space Ghost had flown a Hurricane, then why couldn't he just PM?

It's really not so hard to see why." Your Quote.

And heres my answer. What you asking me for ASK Pat? Im not the one who bought up and continues to bring up this "issue" so why ask me?

Regards Adger


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
#4440267 - 09/22/18 04:55 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Eisenfaust]  
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kksnowbear Offline
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RJW asked for details. The videos are accessible to anyone, and they show exactly what Wodin was talking about. No need to wait for someone to reproduce it, post more video, or anything else. I already explained that quarter speed wasn't how I watched it to see the issues initially, right there in the same post. You're completely fabricating that. How about stop putting words in my mouth?

TBH it's really unfortunate you're trying to contort it into something it isnt.

#4440276 - 09/22/18 05:31 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: Eisenfaust]  
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On Time

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#4440277 - 09/22/18 05:34 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: DukeIronHand]  
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Originally Posted by DukeIronHand
Originally Posted by Space_Ghost

Wow. screwy rofl


Every time I read your dribble I think “agenda.” So what is yours? What are your trying to prove besides me wishing SimHQ had a “Ignore” function.


Space_Ghost is a defender of all things BOS/BOM/BOX related. Since this is a competing product...my guess is he's doing his part to try and take it down a notch. Just IMO of course.


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#4440278 - 09/22/18 05:35 PM Re: Comparison to other Sims [Re: MajorMagee]  
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Originally Posted by MajorMagee
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True enough. Of course it's just as true that nothing was ever improved by ignoring what could be better smile

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